FYI: How true to their word Monria owners are...

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DoA

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Disclaimer:

1. Despite being quite a bit emotionally involved, in this thread, I tried to keep myself out of any personal comments and just state the facts; if you want to read the full article (where I didn't removed the subjective parts), you can do it so here.

2. Please be noted that before posting this thread I asked permission from forum moderators and I was granted said permission.



It all started with this announcement (or print screen version of it, in case something happens with the original post) of a contest for most wiki contributions in a given time interval. From the very moment I saw it, I knew that’s just the kind of contest that would suit me; it’s not only that I always loved contributing to wikis (having spent a few hundred hours on Wikipedia alone for example), but also the fact that the winning criteria (number of contributions) really suited someone like me (a perfectionist, OCD person, who pays attention to details and is good on spotting and fixing various small issues).

So, without any further hesitation, I start working – gathered all info I could from other sources (like entropedia, entropiaplanets, forums, etc), start comparing them against already existing info in Monria’s wiki, then update any missing/lost info, while at the same time try to get some consistency against various wiki sections (starting from having same sections in all similar pages to using the same color palette on all pages). Now, to be honest, I would have tried to contribute to the wiki anyway (just like I posted quite a lot on forums where there was no reward), even without a contest, just because I like to try to help and get involved in community projects, but I would have done it at a relaxed pace, not sacrificing my game time for it.

I created whole wiki sections from scratch, I had pages where I added a lot of content (and here are a few such examples), and I also had small contributions, where I only did some minor, but never useless, corrections (like adding a new ore / enmatter drop location). I won’t deny it, I may have slightly inflated my contributions count (as in if I would have three different updates to a page, I would have done them one by one, not all three in a single go), but each and every edit made sense of its own and improved the wiki (and since the software keeps revisions of each single edit, there’s no need for anyone to trust my word, but they can see for themselves what all of my contributions were about).

And everything was going just fine… I was dedicating about one hour every day to this activity and I was well in the lead (93 contributions for me, 31 contributions for the guy on the second place and pretty much that was the whole top, since the other people only made occasional posts, none of them breaking in the two digits range of contributions). But (coincidentally or not) right after an argument that I had via PMs with (one of) the officials, because she deleted a whole section of wiki that I created, the very next day they decided to change the rules of the contest as in number of contributions was no longer the official criteria, but a totally subjective judgement of their own; you can see said posts that changed the rules mid-contest here (or print screen version of it, in case something happens with the original post) as well as instituting a full-fledged censorship over all wiki contributions, where no new content went live without it being manually revised and approved by a censor/moderator first.

I found this moderation policy totally against the very core principle of a wiki (which is defined as "a website or database developed collaboratively by a community of users, allowing any user to add and edit content") and the action of changing the contest rules in the middle of the game (especially when there were only two people involved in the contest and one was in lead by a large margin) totally unfair so I withdrawn from the contest, since by now it was already obvious to me that they want to give the prize to the other guy, so keep going forward would have meant only loosing more of my time fighting a lost battle. Now I don’t comment if the new rules are better or worse than the old ones, but I just think that they should have thought (better) before the contest, not change them in the middle of it, when people were already competing by said rules; that was completely unprofessional and unethical to do.

Just as I found it completely unprofessional and unethical than when I followed their own suggestion to complain if we have have any problem with the rule changes (quoting: “Given that I know all the contributors I am sure there will be no problems with this but if there is let me know”) and I did that (quite politely I would say, considering the situation), instead of some explanations or apologies, I was basically shown the finger (quoting: “One of the advantages of being a player is that I get to say things like this, if you don’t like what we’re doing or how we’re doing it just move along. No big deal.”) and got the thread locked so I can’t replay further more and defend my point of view.



Later edit: Just as I expected, they awarded the prize to the other guy (or print screen version of it, in case something happens with the original post), without even mentioning the many contributions that I made to their wiki. The fun fact though is that after winning the prize, the guy stopped making any contributions to the wiki, as you can see from here (last contribution being on February 14th) or from here (where I'm still clearly leading the top contributors list, even after one month after my last contribution).


P.S.: At the time of posting this artcile, I said that "if there will be any reaction to the problem I raised here (changing the rules in the middle of the event, in retaliation to an argument we had in private), it will not address this issue, but just represent a typical ad-hominem (fallacious) attack that people usually do when they want to distract attention from the topic at hand?"... Curious if I was right and what was the level of the discussion they started? Feel free to check it out here and see for yourself if I was right nor not. :)
 
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Venture Bros

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When Akoz founded monria, I pitched the idea to form the Monria Advisor team and was one of the founding members. I worked hard to make monria a great place for over 2 years and was the reason everyone knows about the daily mission there. I am one of the huge reasons it even had a basic economy after the first year. Due to running the most visited shop on Monria right next to the daily npc. Then when these new owners come they decide they don't like me on a personal level and kick me from the team and ban me from their forums.

They are power hungry and even more moderated then this forum. Everything there is edited or deleted to only give a false impression that they are good or nice. They have a society with enough people that they can all pretend it's great enough to trick others.

Please do not delete this post if it breaks any rules but edit it. Thank you.
 

OZtwo

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I think that is probably for the best as the only reason I've had to waste my time moderating (not censoring as everything has been approved) is that you were editing content with blank spaces to increase your count. I hadn't expected this to be honest which is why I changed the rules and I am quite annoyed by it. In the future I won't run these kinds of events that are open to abuse but instead will merely gift the people that are helping me in good spirit.

I also think it is extremely unfair to call out Balam who has been contributing content to the wiki in good spirit and I really appreciate his efforts.

One of the advantages of being a player is that I get to say things like this, if you don't like what we're doing or how we're doing it just move along. No big deal.
Lets put the full story out here why the rules were changed. Please don't do this again. I know you are a better person than this. This kind of puts you in a bad light again.
 

Venture Bros

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Lets put the full story out here why the rules were changed. Please don't do this again. I know you are a better person than this. This kind of puts you in a bad light again.
The rules were changed because she was making too many contributions and others were not. They could have done the same. The rules were set and she was following them and winning. She did put that full story out, don't do what again? What are you getting at?
 
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DoA

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Lets put the full story out here why the rules were changed. Please don't do this again. I know you are a better person than this. This kind of puts you in a bad light again.
I linked that very reply from my original post myself.

Problem is that replay is FALSE. As I said, wiki software keeps track of all contributions, so all my (and everyone's else) contributions could (and still can) be checked (by everyone) - there isn't a single empty one that didn't added anything to the content; if there is even a single one, I challenge anyone (especially the people that made the accusation in the first place) to point exactly to that one like say "you contribution from 02/05/2016, 21:24 on the page Cultists contained just empty spaces to inflate your counter", but I assure you there is nothing like that. Is funny how always people like to make accusations (and other people like to believe them) but they are all generic... why not point out the exact case (if it exists).

As I said, I made big contributions, I made small contributions, I made cosmetic only contributions - but each and every one of them added something (more or less) to the wiki. I may have not respected the "spirit of the contest" (or at least the spirit they wanted to give to the contest), but for sure I respected the "letter of the contest", and, at least "legally" that's all I had to do.
 
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Harmony.

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They could have handled it better, and the same goes for yourself.
 

bigdaddy trim

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I dont know much about MOria and dont really carebe honest. SomeThing I have noticed about your posts DOA and other young people today on social media and forums. Is that you always mention your OCD.
 

mastermesh

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in before the deletion or closed thread...

Yes, they could have done a better job... but at the same time, what did you expect going in to a contest like that?
 
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Norbert

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Just delete/remove all the updates you did, and move on and don't look back if it has offended you so much. Not sure of whole story, but is down to how you feel about it really.

I've popped into monria a few times but not really spent enough time to comment on the situation. However in EU bad attitudes tend to lead to players avoiding/abandoning LA's, planets etc etc, i just hope the new owners of Monria are thinking long term.

Oh one last thing, if you leave the wiki stuff you did there, then a thankyou from me at least for the work you put in. :)
 
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DoA

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Just delete/remove all the updates you did, and move on and don't look back if it has offended you so much. Not sure of whole story, but is down to how you feel about it really.
I have to admit I thought about it, but truth is that by doing that I wouldn't have hurt (only) the owners, but (also) the normal wiki users/readers, which would have been deprived of the info I had added, and that is something I just couldn't do, since I believe in wiki / community projects and in sharing the information...

And, as said, even if contest would have been organized differently (as in with the "modified" rules from the start) or without any contest at all, I would have still contributed to the wiki (although, definitely on a lower time involvement), just like I constantly contribute on Wikipedia, for the sole reason that I do believe in that...

My only problem was that they started with some rules, then later on changed their mind and just changed the rules, despite the fact that some people already spent time "working" under said rules...
 

Spawn

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Post it in The other forum so we can continue to discuss it ?

All you posted will get deleted here...
 

DoA

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Post it in The other forum so we can continue to discuss it ?

All you posted will get deleted here...
As said in the OP, I asked for permission before starting this thread and I was granted said permission (after they reviewed the exact content that I wanted to post), so I really doubt it will get deleted; and, TBH I see no reason why it would be - at the end of the day, I only stated facts, from here forward, everyone can make their own judgement. :)

And if by "the other forum" you mean the original forum, I don't see how this would workout when in the moment when I tried to challenge said decision and open a discussion about it, both threads got locked.
 
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RickEngland

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Why don't you add this:

I've got a really cunning plan, buy a planet for a ton of ped and name it planetius? Damn smart that.

Then add someone else's cartoon creation and pray they don't come after you or you don't have to pay them royalties.

Really cool idea when you've got one super rare chance to invent a really unique and stunning mob all in the price of the original deal. Big enough to at least trigger hofs.

Go for some shitty small mobs that are boring as f***, that don't even look interesting or scary.

Flog off boring moon, and pretend its not boring anymore.

Business plan sorted.

Rick
 
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SoReal

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I thought that competing in player made contests was against your "rules" DOA ?

However this is a pretty stinky thing to have happened.
 

DoA

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I thought that competing in player made contests was against your "rules" DOA ?

However this is a pretty stinky thing to have happened.
You are totally right, it is, but I didn't considered this as a "player made contest", but as an "official contest" organized by a planet partner (pretty much like Ark's Gold Rush or Caly's Pets Photo Contest or RT's Champions League), and I allow myself to participate in official contests... and that's what bothered me most; a simple player changing contest rules midway... could have lived with that, a planet partner/owner/manager doing the same... kinda sad. :(
 

ZPF

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Looks like Monria has adopted the Calypso philosophy of changing event rules halfway into the event :laugh:
 

Billy Jean Ruby

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DoA,
I don't know you much but from short talks we exchange on chat I had the impression you're a descent person.
So I would like to comment this with a friendly advice.
Put this incident in your "experience book" of life/virtual life whatever and move along.
Next time you should count things more and be a contirbutor again, if this is something you enjoy.
Don't expect to any prize, if it is happen will happen eventually.
bottom line...
for now, just move along
cheers
 

Alainax

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Was it do with the quality over quantity that was the issue? If someone was creating an entire page of valuable new content vs some one making 3 edits on widely available info?

I have no idea I haven't seen what you posted, can just imagine that to be a more viable reason for a rule change than they just don't like you...

In either regard, it is often the case whereby in the event of a rule change there may be some award for those who were affected and have made valuable contribution. However you may have shot yourself in the foot now.

As others have said, put it in the book of experience and move on.

In reference to the OCD comments that big daddy mentioned it does seem to be the "in" mental illness at the moment! At least 75% of the young people I interview for a job claim to have it, and try to use it as a positive way of describing themselves! Seemingly completely unaware of the dehabilitating illness that it is.
 

DoA

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For sure I did learned my lesson - packed my stuff, moved out of there and next time I'll see a out-of-game contest, I'll just pass.

The reason I made this post was just to warn/inform other people about what happened and let them make their own judgements - about me, about Monria owners, about the whole situation...
 
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Roth

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Didnt I tell you before, a Daughter of anarchy should not follow any rules! ;)

So what was the price for the contest? just a bit curios
 
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Kitty

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Didnt I tell you before, a Daughter of anarchy should not follow any rules! ;)

So what was the price for the contest? just a bit curios

The prize was an apartment
 

Roth

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The prize was an apartment
Oh, then I dont understand the point of making a mess out of it. Could have handed out an apartment as a price for good work while mentioning that this wasnt really what they had intended and let the competition run its course with another apartment.

Or something like it, I just think its very little peds to get bad rep for and a new PP is a bit more vulnerable then old ones when it comes to rep.

But thats just my opinion and I dont know if I understand all the pieces of this :)
 
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DoA

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Oh, then I dont understand the point of making a mess out of it. Could have handed out an apartment as a price for good work while mentioning that this wasnt really what they had intended and let the competition run its course with another apartment.

Or something like it, I just think its very little peds to get bad rep for and a new PP is a bit more vulnerable then old ones when it comes to rep.

But thats just my opinion and I dont know if I understand all the pieces of this :)
That was exactly my point and I considered that this would have been the "politically correct" decision.

We were anyway only two people seriously working on the wiki and competing in the contest (anyone else having only occasional minor contributions).

I would have found it normal to let the contest follow its course with the rules they set in the first place, award the promised prize according to said rules, and if they would have thought that actually the other person did contributed more or something, just gift them a second (identical or not) prize. Eventually learn from said "mistake" and on any future contest just set rules differently, leave room for "personal judging" as within the changed rules or anything like that.

But, instead, what they did was to change the rules mid contest, which I found to be totally unethical and unprofessional; not to mention that this rule change happened the very next morning after the argument I had with one of them via PMs (which I linked in the OP).
 
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Fifth

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Apparently the person who organized the contest didn't really think it through.
In a hindsight, quality Vs. quantity quite obviously should have been addressed right from the start.
That was the 1st mistake the event organizer(s) made.
And then they added another one on top of it, by changing the rules halfway through.

This was very unprofessional.

Then again, even the almighty Planet Collapso event organizers didn't really think through the last MM rules/setup.
And then added another mistake ontop of it by trying to blame their mistake on the players...


In a hindsight, what an immense talent we had with early WoF! Basically one guy (with some help from his friends) put it all together and then kept it going for years, without any major flop-up's like the ones above.

Respect, Hurricane! :tiphat:
 

Darcon

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Cyrene did somthing like that too.

Changes to A.R.C. Rank 1 Missions.
I was already gathering badges. But do to my low level, my progress was slow.
Suddenly Cyrene decide to change the prize that you were aloud to buy. when you finally had gathered 200 badges. After many protests, Cyrene decided that you only need 140 badges, but it was time limited. And therefore i never got my prize.

I understand the need to make adjustments. But not for players who is already in progress.

8. MindArk’s Rules of Conduct
j. You may not “cheat”

But what if players feel cheated?
I feel like MA sometimes forget that this is a real money environment.
Aren't all deals supposed to be final?
When i accept a mission, I expect it to be a deal between me and the planet that i am on.

Marts 13 2015 Chris announces:

The A.R.C. Initiate Armor is now called Stolen Imperium Armor, this armor was meant to be part of the Imperium Faction but due to some issues this armor was put out incorrectly.I would like to stress that this armor will not be changed for any player that already has this armor, however, this armor will not be available at the Rank 1 Stage of A.R.C. once the VU goes live.

Marts 24 2015

For a limited time in the 0x101 Supply Depot near Eve's Playground two Boffin will be selling Stolen Imperium Armor Sets for any players with over 140 A.R.C. Faction Badges, one set per player.
 

DoA

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Later edit: Just as I expected, they awarded the prize to the other guy (or print screen version of it, in case something happens with the original post), without even mentioning the many contributions that I made to their wiki. The fun fact though is that after winning the prize, the guy stopped making any contributions to the wiki, as you can see from here (last contribution being on February 14th) or from here (where I'm still clearly leading the top contributors list, even after one month after my last contribution).


P.S.: At the time of posting this artcile, I said that "if there will be any reaction to the problem I raised here (changing the rules in the middle of the event, in retaliation to an argument we had in private), it will not address this issue, but just represent a typical ad-hominem (fallacious) attack that people usually do when they want to distract attention from the topic at hand?"... Curious if I was right and what was the level of the discussion they started? Feel free to check it out here and see for yourself if I was right nor not. :)
 

Venture Bros

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Holy shit are they ever are acting like children in that thread.

I am glad I got out of there.
 
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jetsina

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Later edit: Just as I expected, they awarded the prize to the other guy
Well, I'm sorry to see you had such an annoying time of it. I went and read the thread which has now been closed (after finishing comments by both main parties) over on the home of that other place.
As I have said before on the Cyrene site, your English is really pretty super; you certainly do pay a lot of attention to detail.
Just for that reason and not negatively - when you listen, the spelling of the word is 'hear' and not 'here' (a typo you made).
What I mainly want to ask about is your use of the word 'eventually'. In British English it means 'after a very long period of time', as in 'the Earth will be destroyed eventually'. Germanic and possibly US English usage is more a meaning of 'perhaps'. How did you learn your superb English, if I may ask? If you haven't got your future career planned out yet, then may I suggest that it involves languages and accuracy - ironically something that the ill-fated wiki competition focussed on.... ;)
 
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