Hunting bot and getting others to play your avatar outcome?

Euphoria

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Ok i been told a few times that my opinion about this is totally wako and out of place so now i need to hear from you guys if im really that far away here.

First of all let me point out that NO botting isnt ok, and YES hunting botting is cheating in my eyes and it shouldnt be allowed AT ALL BUT here comes the point:

A bot does things for you when you dont have the time or cant be at the computer, right? it loots for you, it skills for you and so on.

Then you have another person playing your avatar and YES i know its allowed, but that person loots for you, skills for you and so on, rigth?

So all in all weither its a bot or a buddy, girlfriend or mother that does it for you the outcome is still the same right? You still get skills, loot and so on, you normally wouldnt get cuz you cant be online at that point where you get this things, right?

OFC its not the same since the one thing is a person and the other a software BUT the outcome is. When 2 players can go trough more hours ingame than one and recycle more than one person might can.
So tecnecly the other person is just doing the bots job. Again only diffence that its not a software but a person.

I dont say there is something wrong in lending out your avatar and yes i still think its wrong to use bots no matter what it is but im just pointing out that the outcome is the same in the long run.

But as i said in the beginning, a few friends thinks that my point is far out and im ready for the kuk kuk place :p

But let me hear what you guys think.
 

bigdaddy trim

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OFC its not the same since the one thing is a person and the other a software BUT the outcome is. When 2 players can go trough more hours ingame than one and recycle more than one person might can.
So tecnecly the other person is just doing the bots job. Again only diffence that its not a software but a person.

What about human error? You double drop by accident, tt something accident etc etc. I think the problem is that people who use bots, have advantage over players who just play normally.
 

Euphoria

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Well a program can make errors to, but my point is that the outcome of a hunt will still be kinda of the same if you have 2 players switching between the hours and then a bot doing it for you. You are still able to recycle twice as much as 1 person can

Just gonna point out before someone els does that I KNOW THE BOT AINT HUMAN :p
 

gwit

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I understand why people are concerned over effectively free skills - evade etc. but hunting bots cost money to use; sometimes it would be great to set a hunting bot free on a grinding mission - although if I were able to do that I am not sure how many hunts I would do myself :)
 

Euphoria

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i thought account sharing is not okay either... so both are wrong.

Well apparantly its allowed by MA but we can agree it should only be yours but i dont care if others borrow their avatar out :)
 

Bones

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Well MA has stated that others using your account is not recommended but not against the users agreement.

Whether it is a moral dilemma is up to you.
 

DaisyColdFinger

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They built a Crafting bot and that's ok BUT you cant hunt bot cause it is

1 anti social > so is AUTO/BOT crafting
2 cheating live skillers with limited time > so is AUTO/BOT crafting
3 hoarding mats while afk hunting > so is AUTO/BOT crafting
4 access to more opportunities than live hunters > so to with AUTO/BOT Crafting

Hypocrisy YES, but Problem ? AFK botting or stand in hunter on your account = Oversupply !!!

MA's approach with hoarding cash through crafting is good for their bank balance but the oversupply it creates crashes the economy on everything from the prices you get for your hunting mats that you got with the super cool weapon that's now super cheap not realising its cheap cause your matts are selling for peanuts now....yadda yadda and so forth.

So your buddy or mother ( ? lol) really should also not be OK to hunt/mine for you as that also contributes then to oversupply.
 

Aio

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I'm not a fan of dual-person avatars, but they are the least of all evils in Entropia for me. The require human beings spending PEDs. Eventually I would like to see this wiped out but there is so little MA can do in regards to policing this - the only feasible option would be fingerprint logins, but seeing the furore about entropia pocket and a simple 1-time code on an app, it isn't going to happen.

Bot hunting is significantly different in that it requires no expenditure of human time. It's not obvious on the face of it why this is different (they still spend peds, through one avatar, etc) but if you think about the implications of 1 person controlling many avatar bots, you can see where this would start to become an issue.

Additionally, it becomes much easier for MA to police bots - regular inputs on a timing pattern, additional executables running, etc.

Personally I would like to see a proper announcement made, almost an update to the EULA, and from there going forward bans being much more forcefully enforced.
 

RickEngland

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There's obviously an advantage with shared avatar due to shared budgets. It suits some I guess, although I guess their main advantage is to be able to turn over more peds....it still costs though.

I'd rather be in total control of my ava.

I don't get botting anyway, why would you want to pay when not even at the screen to enjoy or at least experience what you paid for.

Although the community has become paranoid as f***. I've stood around for hours training pets at times, waiting for xp to grow. Sure you leave the keyboard, grab a tea, go for a pee. Have a chat with the misses or kids, why not, you're standing around doing nothing. MA created an activity that was boring.

I paced up and down Fort Ithaca for months last year (yeah I know crazy), people sent MA out to me "checking up on me" more than once. Now imagine if at that moment I was off having a pee, and didn't reply to the MA official. Would they have banned me?

All because some arsehole player got paranoid and wants to police 'everyone'.....FFS.

I've got to the point, I don't care what other people do. Maybe shooting loads of peds jumping in and out of a VTOL earns MA more money than me training a pet, or running a few whips.

Does it really matter.

Rick
 

Luckycharm

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Not everyone can stand the boringness of continuously hunting (small) mobs and/or dropping probes (with rookie finder) etc or attempting to detect patterns (timings) full-time in order to gain anything in the long run, be it skills, loot or whatever...

No brother, sister, boy- or girlfriend, father, mother, grandpa, grandma or any other pretty much sane person can most likely.

Bots however, can probably allow much more than simple tasks to be automated, using patterns/algorithms to gain an "unfair" advantage over real players that want to have fun without paying a premium full time vs. these bots. By multiple automated systems milking everything as far as they can EU gets less and less interesting for the genuine people around... everything comes from somewhere in the end.
 

Arangar

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Two point:
- The person who play your avatar still have to respect the rules, a software would just repeat the recorded/programmed actions.

- There are already many bot users with them being illegal, so how many do you think we would have if it was legal?

Outcome in terms of concrete actions ie..looting shooting etc is the same sure, but the outcome for the game is not.
 

mg Joda VVV

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Ok i been told a few times that my opinion about this is totally wako and out of place so now i need to hear from you guys if im really that far away here.

First of all let me point out that NO botting isnt ok, and YES hunting botting is cheating in my eyes and it shouldnt be allowed AT ALL BUT here comes the point:

A bot does things for you when you dont have the time or cant be at the computer, right? it loots for you, it skills for you and so on.

Then you have another person playing your avatar and YES i know its allowed, but that person loots for you, skills for you and so on, rigth?

So all in all weither its a bot or a buddy, girlfriend or mother that does it for you the outcome is still the same right? You still get skills, loot and so on, you normally wouldnt get cuz you cant be online at that point where you get this things, right?

OFC its not the same since the one thing is a person and the other a software BUT the outcome is. When 2 players can go trough more hours ingame than one and recycle more than one person might can.
So tecnecly the other person is just doing the bots job. Again only diffence that its not a software but a person.

I dont say there is something wrong in lending out your avatar and yes i still think its wrong to use bots no matter what it is but im just pointing out that the outcome is the same in the long run.

But as i said in the beginning, a few friends thinks that my point is far out and im ready for the kuk kuk place :p

But let me hear what you guys think.

if we had bots allowed, you could see 16 people team with opalos (trains) using super eco stuff , knowing when to fap to not outfap, shooting mobs only BOT think its time to shoot.

and it will effect game so much ,that probably it could die, cos all Unlimited bots can shoot 24/7 and materials they get becomes not valuable.
even if you allow bot go skill evade, they will make your evade skilsl not valuable.

There is alot things why bots are bad. That is why it is forbidden in all games.

bots = disease of a game
 

mg Joda VVV

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Hypocrisy YES, but Problem ? AFK botting or stand in hunter on your account = Oversupply !!!

MA's approach with hoarding cash through crafting is good for their bank balance but the oversupply it creates crashes the economy on everything from the prices you get for your hunting mats that you got with the super cool weapon that's now super cheap not realising its cheap cause your matts are selling for peanuts now....yadda yadda and so forth.

So your buddy or mother ( ? lol) really should also not be OK to hunt/mine for you as that also contributes then to oversupply.

Balance of a game is ruined after explosive bp .
economics is not moving because of only 1 bp in game.
 

mastermesh

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same basic problem with it as there was in 2007...
http://blogtropia.blogspot.com/2007/03/final-entropia-exploit.html

but there's other problems too...
multiple avatar/shared avatar use/mules, etc. allow folks to
-manipulate market by artificially raising markup prices on auction as they move stuff from main avatar to alt and back...
-avoid transportation costs by having an avatar on each planet
-cause regular folks with one avatar to have major disadvantage vs them in events, auctions, etc. since one avatar run by one person won't be online 24/7 so they'll get outbid on auction, miss an hour here and there in events, etc.

Could add more, but not a lot of time at the moment since I'm one person typing here... (If I had a shared avatar here on the forum my alt would take up here and type for the next 8 hours I suppose, lol)
 

Manique

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If MA actually cared to punish boters or avatars shared / Sold
90% of the turnover ingame would drop hunting

Just saying

Thts why MA wont do shit about it.

Digusting moves such as allowing exploiters do their things and "punish" ppl that havent done anything wrong, is just bad policy as i keep saying
That whole AUD - Mary Jane thing, is a good example, sucks clearly, but how about all the other players that begged MA for help and MA just said the same old - all trades are final, where's the justice now?

12k USD is more than some got and for that guy was his savings
what about those guys that lost 1k usd, which could've been their savings too invested into the game, why would that mean less because its less cash for MA?
It was still the same trust into the game they put.

Whoever thinks im wrong, you might be wrong, but i share this idea with a lot of ppl, im glad the MJ issue turned out for the best and the guy was reasonable, even tho he got made "hostage"

And some wonder why the market is bad atm
The buyer's trust is droping along with the demand for most stuff besides consumables like enhancers.
Also ton of flood of items when the comunity doesnt grow enough to have such variety - players lose again to item depreciation, making again ppl hold back on investing cos they know its most likelly garanteed loss

If MA comes out and says
"Ok we will really ban the xploiters / cheaters / avatar sharing people"
I'll gladly fill a list of names, but MA would run out of active costumers....
 

Euphoria

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No matter what is botting not ok and illegal in MA rules (even if they dont do shit about it)
But how i see it the bot has the same function as if it was another player using the account, and in the end it gives same benifits as in loot, skills etc you normal wouldnt get cuz you would have been at work fx.

and sadly i have to agree with Paulo that if MA bannes those who do bot or exploits there would hardly be anything left in the loot pool.
 

Alina

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i only have something against botters, not much to say if u got a brother or wife playing for u on same account
 

Euphoria

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Thx for your opinions guys
 

Mega

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I personally dont consider using a software program to mimic the actions of a human (ie a hunting bot) to be in the same category as (for example) a husband and wife sometimes using the same avatar because one has the good gun or is on the 'right' planet.

The ToU may prohibit it (I'm in game so cant check the relevant section) but I should imagine the above scenario could only cause an issue if they got divorced.

One is cheating and the other one is lending your car, just make sure the insurance covers a disaster occuring.
 

K-Max

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Botting in the aspect of dumb bots is not the reason botting is bad it is the ability to make smart bots.

Bot programs can learn patterns, yes there are patterns, they can optimize and calculate the data more precisely then a human can etc. Learning bots could eventually gain so much advantage over human playing the player will most likely be able to profit more and more without playing.

The point here is randomization in software is mostly pseudo random not true random. It can eventually become more predictable and software can analyze and optimize the outcomes.

Botting is bad anyone caught doing it should be banned. Not that dumb botting doing simple crap is bad it is the ability to make smart bots that learn and skew the outcomes and take advantage of a game making it kind of lopsided and some cashing out more then others for doing absolutely nothing once the bot is made.

Just my 2 pec on the topic
 

DaisyColdFinger

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and sadly i have to agree with Paulo that if MA bannes those who do bot or exploits there would hardly be anything left in the loot pool.

Screen-shot-2011-04-04-at-5_08_42-AM.png

Except i would in this instance change it to Dumb - Deaf - Ignorant
 
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Pretto Loco

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The only obvious advantage a multiple user account would have is the time played. But thats where the similarity ends compared to a software bot. It's been discussed and debated since day #1 that this and that certain account probably are run by several individuals. But the community seems to accept it, reluctantly, as impossible to do anything about. But in either case I find it completelly meaningless to go to that length for a very uncertain outcome.

The only real problem are the possibility to run multiple accounts run by bots. But botting in itself and and one account run by several individuals are not a biggy. I dont say it's ok, it's just not that fatal for the game. Maybe it's even for the good as the servers looks populated with all those logged in avas :cool:
 

trance

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Quote: Maybe it's even for the good as the servers looks populated with all those logged in avas.

:laugh: This made my day.
 
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