Impact of deposits on loot

Alina

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like i've said, in the end it comes down to being lucky with the multipliers...
All the multipliers are created based on your previous returns. Exception what i call them marketing multiplies but those are super rare. Go study moar. AGANE AND AGANE
 

~ Cirrus ~

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Just in case you forgot what you said : 92.2 eff is not 95 and guns are not amps so please stop mixing stupid words.
So what do you read when I said "I use 60/75% efficiency guns and you use 90/95% ?"

You just try to cloud the issue.

Stop clowning..

Effi and Looter prof impact on TT return is TINY, end of story.
That's not what will prevent any of small/medium depositors/players from loosing money.

You perfectly know it but you try to protect your investment so hard..
You NEED these people to deposit and loose more.


To be back on topic, those who said "deposits are not linked to return" are suffering from a great lack of logic..
Where do you think the money comes from if not deposit ? :confused:
Every single PEC that a player earn comes form another player who lost it.

Just for a test, all the people who are depositing every month should just stop depositing from now and we'll see if Messi is still happy whith the game after few weeks..
 
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~ Cirrus ~

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rofl.... it's just luck, if you would have to wait 100's of clicks for a single multiplier to appear, then yours would suck too... or do you really want to tell me you get your raw materials for 100% and only get stuff worth 125+%?

Btw funny how you ignore the whole being at +10k to +17k with 95% return part.
You should stop calling this "Luck".

Or just explain what is Luck ?
Especially Luck in a computer program..

"Luck" and randomness doesn't exist in real life, so much less in programming.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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I invested ONCE 4K$ over 3 years ....

I got back 158K copper that was sold @ 120%

Withdrawed most and had a new roof on my house ...

Still mining, still making profit ... without ANY depo's ...how you explain that?
I explain that very simply..

That was BEFORE.

And indeed it was possible in the past, by playing smart mostly.
I already said that many times, and that's exactly what I miss, and why I hate what this game became, and especially Loot 2.0..

If you read again, I said "It is not possible ANYMORE" (meaning for a player who started after the changes)

PS:

Also now you are playing whith other players's money, and that's great, that's the way to success here. (Messi perfectly know this)

But now you're making profit on MU only.
That's the big difference between Before and After the change.

What I said is not possible anymore is making profit on TT.
Exactly like you did whith that big 158K hit.

This will not happens anymore, or like someone said it's kind of "marketting hof".
 
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messi91

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Effi and Looter prof impact on TT return is TINY, end of story.
That's not what will prevent any of small/medium depositors/players from loosing money.

You perfectly now it but you try to protect your investment so hard..
You NEED these people to deposit and loose more.
Dude I start to believe you are not even playing the game.
You are referring as 0-100% efficiency as 7% returns as tiny.Yeah 7% is tiny if you look at the number alone but if you are in a position to understand what's the baseline returns for the game and then you add those 7% and on top of that you add a player that can spend over 500k ped/month you will immediately have the picture in your mind.
The above is without looter profession.You can only argue that its not working right now or any other excuse.

I don't need people to deposit they can choose to do whatever they like, its not my game and I have no % gains if they deposit or not.
People will always deposit and most of them will always choose to lose(its one of the basic fundamentals in this game).They do it separately to my will or my wishes.My only job is to perform and generate revenue using hunting mechanics Mindark is allowing me.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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Dude I start to believe you are not even playing the game.
You are referring as 0-100% efficiency as 7% returns as tiny.Yeah 7% is tiny if you look at the number alone but if you are in a position to understand what's the baseline returns for the game and then you add those 7% and on top of that you add a player that can spend over 500k ped/month you will immediately have the picture in your mind.
The above is without looter profession.You can only argue that its not working right now or any other excuse.

I don't need people to deposit they can choose to do whatever they like, its not my game and I have no % gains if they deposit or not.
People will always deposit and most of them will always choose to lose(its one of the basic fundamentals in this game).They do it separately to my will or my wishes.My only job is to perform and generate revenue using hunting mechanics Mindark is allowing me.
Man, I'll not waste too much time whith you.. But again stop clowning.

Originally Posted by Charlie|MindArk:
Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%.

So first nobody use 0% Effi weaps, or even 40%, most weaps start at ~55%, max is about 90%

Secondly, and again, what you can get whith a 100% Effi weap is not 7%, but it's 0-7%.

So I confirm Efficiency impact is Tiny, especially when compared to the losses an average player can get.
 

LavaSparks

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To be back on topic, those who said "deposits are not linked to return" are suffering from a great lack of logic..
I think they meant that deposits made by one player doesn't affect his return. Obviously, the total amount of deposits (incudling purchases of moon deeds and what not) into EU has to affect overall returns. It's the sole source of money to be looted.

The link "I just deposited $200, so now I will get a 4k hof" is just blatantly wrong. Most depositers will lose their money, a few will gain some of their deposits (MU chasers, high efficiency gear and decent looter level), MA will have the rest. Simple as that. A few will get lucky and accidentally HOF right after depo, most won't.

A few players will be unbelievable lucky, like Leeloo or the dude that got away with the 400k mining advertising HOF, or the guy who got 100 tries on juiced BP around xmas (MA's mistake) and ended up with 100k+. They're there to keep the dream alive for the rest of us. And it works.

I've deposited a substantial amount of PEDs through strongboxes, and never looted a ring worth more than 50 ped. Biggest global was 500x (twice, foul young 200 ped, traeskeron alfa 790) after ~200k kills. I am not complaining, just saying that if there was any logic to "I deposit, therefore I HOF", I'd have my uber 1000x HOF and ares perfected a long time ago.

And regarding Messi: Whatever your opinion of him, he must have the most substantial data set in all of EU of return % and loot composition. So if he doesn't know how return works, I doubt anyone does. Just my 2 pec.
 
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messi91

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Man, I'll not waste too much time whith you.. But again stop clowning.

Originally Posted by Charlie|MindArk:
Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%.

So first nobody use 0% Effi weaps, or even 40%, most weaps start at ~55%, max is about 90%

Secondly, and again, what you can get whith a 100% Effi weap is not 7%, but it's 0-7%.

So I confirm Efficiency impact is Tiny, especially when compared to the losses an average player can get.
You are not saying anything new.
You are not in a position to claim nobody is using 0% efficiency weapons since you are not a developer and can access the loot code to extract information.As long as they exist in the game everything is possible, very less likely but leave some room for us to believe people might use them.
I just explained in my previous post.0-7% tt returns increased by efficiency alone is tiny if you count the number 1% 2% 3% yeah those are small numbers but THOSE ADS on top of average player gets as return and the number become very attractive if you actually have vision.Again those numbers are without looter profession.
There will always be average players that choose to lose but here comes the players that actually trust the system and choose to extract more from their laziness/trust/bankroll management/lack of patience/etc
 

~ Cirrus ~

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I think they meant that deposits made by one player doesn't affect his return. Obviously, the total amount of deposits (incudling purchases of moon deeds and what not) into EU has to affect overall returns. It's the sole source of money to be looted...
I agree.
I think it was about link between "overall deposits" versus returns.

As I said it's better to play whith the money of others players than mine.

A few players will be unbelieveable lucky, like Leeloo or the dude that got away with the 400k mining advertising HOF, or the guy who got 100 tries on juiced BP around xmas (MA's mistake) and ended up with 100k+. They're there to keep the dream alive for the rest of us. And it works.
I'm afraid I'm not in the right path to get one of these "Advertissing HoF" by talking bad about what the game became... :dunce:

I should learn how to lie.. Someone know how to do it here. (name it)

Let's try:

Everybody get a chance, deposit more guys, never give up ! :wtg:

Oh, and no, Deeds will not kill the game for average players ! They are good for it.
Don't forget to buy the new ones that will come this year, and the next ones, and the next ones..
 

Joat

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I'm quite sure there is no connection between depos and
individuals return. I can say that since I seen MAs patent and
the graphics explaining the flow RL money-> Ingame money -> RL money.
So how is it posible that right after i deposit or open 20x boxes i suddenly get an global and improved loot?

And was not only just 1 situation, everytime i get that.
Did you open 20 boxes before depo and had globals too?
Quite often people do other things or at least spend
more after depo and get better (higher valued) return.
 

Laurent

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well, to add my 2 pecs :

If you cannot deposit, it won't affect your loopool or maybe if you had just a big hof after you last depo.

If we consider that 500 peeps are in your case, ie they cannot deposit either, then the entire lootpool might shrinken a bit, all people loot pool might be affected.

I agree that cycling stands a major role in loot correlation. But as we know it is not the only parameter.
 

Ace Flyster

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I've always thought of deposits as completely disconnected to the loot pool. When people deposit, that money goes to their ped card, NOT the loot pool. Loot pool gets filled from people cycling peds, i.e. doing one of the 3 main professions.

So if 10000 people make a big deposit, initially the loot pools haven't changed, it is sitting on peoples accounts and not in the loot pool. Let those 10000 people cycle those peds over the next few weeks and the loot pools could/maybe fill up. But the pools have to be 'fed' first.

So deposits, in my respect are not connected to loot pools. It is an indirect relationship. Loot pools are only affected by the amount 'cycled' by players.

Rgds

Ace]

EDIT: take player A that cycles 10k ped a month, and breaks even after markup. If that player then deposits $1million, but still only cycles 10k ped a month, the loot pools havent changed, despite them depositing a LOT of money into their account.
 

LavaSparks

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I've always thought of deposits as completely disconnected to the loot pool. When people deposit, that money goes to their ped card, NOT the loot pool. Loot pool gets filled from people cycling peds, i.e. doing one of the 3 main professions.

So if 10000 people make a big deposit, initially the loot pools haven't changed, it is sitting on peoples accounts and not in the loot pool. Let those 10000 people cycle those peds over the next few weeks and the loot pools could/maybe fill up. But the pools have to be 'fed' first.

So deposits, in my respect are not connected to loot pools. It is an indirect relationship. Loot pools are only affected by the amount 'cycled' by players.

Rgds

Ace]

EDIT: take player A that cycles 10k ped a month, and breaks even after markup. If that player then deposits $1million, but still only cycles 10k ped a month, the loot pools havent changed, despite them depositing a LOT of money into their account.

Not so sure. Universal ammo must be cycled to be yours. No cycling -> all your UA are belongs to us ..err.. MA! If you depo PEDs on the other hand, you're right.
 

ihazbackup

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I've always thought of deposits as completely disconnected to the loot pool. When people deposit, that money goes to their ped card, NOT the loot pool. Loot pool gets filled from people cycling peds, i.e. doing one of the 3 main professions.

So if 10000 people make a big deposit, initially the loot pools haven't changed, it is sitting on peoples accounts and not in the loot pool. Let those 10000 people cycle those peds over the next few weeks and the loot pools could/maybe fill up. But the pools have to be 'fed' first.

So deposits, in my respect are not connected to loot pools. It is an indirect relationship. Loot pools are only affected by the amount 'cycled' by players.

Rgds

Ace]

EDIT: take player A that cycles 10k ped a month, and breaks even after markup. If that player then deposits $1million, but still only cycles 10k ped a month, the loot pools havent changed, despite them depositing a LOT of money into their account.
I agree it's indirectly related. Basically, it's like this:

=> Someone cannot deposit with paypal
=> He ceased all activities, since he cannot deposit
=> Loot pool lost X in decay/fee that should be generated by this player
=> Multiply this by Y number of players
=> Loot pool lost a potential of X * Y PEDs

It will need an amount huge enough for you to feel the effect on the loot returns imo
 

K_rupT

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Not so sure. Universal ammo must be cycled to be yours. No cycling -> all your UA are belongs to us ..err.. MA! If you depo PEDs on the other hand, you're right.
UA Still has a TT value so it's yours if you quit quit 😉
 

Svarog

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MA gets their share not from deposits but from the cycled peds, and the peds are still being cycled with or without deposits, they just trade hands. Of course in the long run the amount of peds in game would run low without fresh infusions, but that's in a very, very long run.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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I've always thought of deposits as completely disconnected to the loot pool. When people deposit, that money goes to their ped card, NOT the loot pool. Loot pool gets filled from people cycling peds, i.e. doing one of the 3 main professions.

So if 10000 people make a big deposit, initially the loot pools haven't changed, it is sitting on peoples accounts and not in the loot pool. Let those 10000 people cycle those peds over the next few weeks and the loot pools could/maybe fill up. But the pools have to be 'fed' first.

So deposits, in my respect are not connected to loot pools. It is an indirect relationship. Loot pools are only affected by the amount 'cycled' by players.

Rgds

Ace]

EDIT: take player A that cycles 10k ped a month, and breaks even after markup. If that player then deposits $1million, but still only cycles 10k ped a month, the loot pools havent changed, despite them depositing a LOT of money into their account.
That's right Loot Pool is not directly affected by deposits.

But Loot Pool is affected by LOSSES.
(again, every single PEC earned by someone, comes from another player who lost it)

And losses are affected by deposits, cause in order to loose money you have to first deposit it.

So if all excess has been distributed and people stop depositing (stop playing or just go sweat), then there is nothing more to earn in the loot pool and everybody will loose.

And since there is more and more money needed to pay the Deeds owners, then the game needs more and more Losses (so deposits).

Or new Deeds can help for a small time whith a big money influx to pay for the last ones, then new ones, and new ones.. etc.. :rolleyes:
 

ClosedFile

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...

You can argue that Mindark might set returns for a particular month to a lower low however you can't tell later on when you had a good month it didn't happen because of that.It can be a cold loot period as some ppl might like to call it and some of them stop and some that persist hunting in that period can later on not only that they will hit big multipliers or have very good returns but might even hit some lucky items/fat esis etc.
I don't think there's an exact answer for your question, its just a matter of trust.

Well, if you would compare hunting return logs from several players one could notice a trend. If all of them seem to dip at times one can confirm in retrospect that the "dynamics" of loot might have been set a certain way.

One could notice a trend a learn something by it, or maybe not.
The fun is in trying to find patterns and learn how loot works (...so MA can change it again :) )
 

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Well, if you would compare hunting return logs from several players one could notice a trend. If all of them seem to dip at times one can confirm in retrospect that the "dynamics" of loot might have been set a certain way.

One could notice a trend a learn something by it, or maybe not.
The fun is in trying to find patterns and learn how loot works (...so MA can change it again :) )
No hunting log under 6 months period should be taken into consideration.I disregard any hunting log unless it comes directly from Mindark anyway but just saying.Any hunting log is manipulative and its purpose should be to serve the person who created it to make adjustments and improve later on.

The system is too dynamic for anyone to obtain exact information this is why I point again to fundamentals which always work no matter what.
You can find so many patterns by simply analyzing the history of the game and its players.
 

ClosedFile

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Since some have their own idea how EU works, here you have a link to the patent.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20030115132
It seems they never really tried to patent it. Just filing a claim to be sure that nobody else could patent it.
I'll research the schematics later when I have more time. It is quite interesting for its own reasons although it might not directly or indirectly answer the question. Yet it might give an indication.
 

Alukat123

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All the multipliers are created based on your previous returns. Exception what i call them marketing multiplies but those are super rare. Go study moar. AGANE AND AGANE
lol, you're basically just confirming what i've said. If unlucky you get the "marketing multipliers", which means you have to have pretty bad returns for quite some time. go learn math.


I think they meant that deposits made by one player doesn't affect his return. Obviously, the total amount of deposits (incudling purchases of moon deeds and what not) into EU has to affect overall returns. It's the sole source of money to be looted.

The link "I just deposited $200, so now I will get a 4k hof" is just blatantly wrong. Most depositers will lose their money, a few will gain some of their deposits (MU chasers, high efficiency gear and decent looter level), MA will have the rest. Simple as that. A few will get lucky and accidentally HOF right after depo, most won't.

A few players will be unbelievable lucky, like Leeloo or the dude that got away with the 400k mining advertising HOF, or the guy who got 100 tries on juiced BP around xmas (MA's mistake) and ended up with 100k+. They're there to keep the dream alive for the rest of us. And it works.

I've deposited a substantial amount of PEDs through strongboxes, and never looted a ring worth more than 50 ped. Biggest global was 500x (twice, foul young 200 ped, traeskeron alfa 790) after ~200k kills. I am not complaining, just saying that if there was any logic to "I deposit, therefore I HOF", I'd have my uber 1000x HOF and ares perfected a long time ago.
yep, just luck.

@cirrus:
luck in context of EU: (big) multipliers happening before they are supposed happen, which results in returns being higher of what they're supposed to be.
unlucky in context of EU: (big) multipliers happening after they are supposed happen, which results in returns being lower what they're supposed to be.
 

Alukat123

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So how is it posible that right after i deposit or open 20x boxes i suddenly get an global and improved loot?

And was not only just 1 situation, everytime i get that.
coincidence.

I've tried that too, out of 5 extra "trigger global/hof"-depos only 1 actually resulted in having a global shortly after depoing.

Pretty sure you would have gotten the globals as well if you just had played without depoing.
 

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Don't even talk about Looter profession please, since nobody knows what it does..
When i was reading about shared loot i was found some test with the looter skills.
Here it is for you / anybody who may missed it.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?304635-Return-in-Shared-Loot-Team-Hunting-is-based-on-Cost-Efficiency-Looter-Prof-not-just-Cost&p=3651434&viewfull=1#post3651434

Puny, with 2 hunters in team, first missed the shot, other killed it, same weapon, same efficiency, same cost, so by that, the return should be the same for them, the only difference was the looter skills.
By that test, lvl2 and lvl41 almost 3% difference in return.
Than the lvl0 and lvl100 difference maybe not that small to be ignored.
 

Alina

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lol, you're basically just confirming what i've said. If unlucky you get the "marketing multipliers", which means you have to have pretty bad returns for quite some time. go learn math.
400k narc or 300k mulmun are marketing rest are normal multiplayers also at some point we used to see nubs with 10-20k on tracker hiting big hofs , thats why i said are super rare.

few months ago i got 2x1k multi in 3 days (and that on 6 ped click/cost whatever), its just luck accord to you ? soon ill will enter in this multiplayer spree :) i dont bitch about losing 20-30-40k peds in tt
 

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Silly to think that deposit activity is somehow linked to TT returns or loot.


Not silly to think (in fact pretty obvious) that overall lowered deposit activity will negatively impact everyone's return because there's simply less capital in game to spend on the items you loot/craft: less spending = lower returns, it's pretty basic.

There's a *lot* of liquidity in the game, though, so I think we are a long way off before the impact becomes noticeable.
 

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Deposits do NOT affect loot at all ... if they did I would have been bankrupt a long time ago and I'm still here without 1 depo after 16-17 years and still making profit (mining).

.
And you need the ability to count, I would even say this is a must :ahh:
And for luck ... Luck has NOTHING to do with it.
I would not dissmiss luck complety, but yes "Skills, brains, common sense and maybe listen to some 1 who has the experience is all you need" is more important. I also did 1 deposit to buy a booth on RT $500, several years ago. I now own a shop, nearly L60 in prospecting, own diffrent types of deeds and run a very sucsessful mining buisness. I have never had ATH, but if i get lucky to have one i proberly be the most hated player, as i done so much that players said not to. Like spending 90% of my game life on a dead planet called ROCKtropia.
 

Alukat123

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400k narc or 300k mulmun are marketing rest are normal multiplayers also at some point we used to see nubs with 10-20k on tracker hiting big hofs , thats why i said are super rare.

few months ago i got 2x1k multi in 3 days (and that on 6 ped click/cost whatever), its just luck accord to you ? soon ill will enter in this multiplayer spree :) i dont bitch about losing 20-30-40k peds in tt
please read how i defined luck. Here it is again:

@cirrus:
luck in context of EU: (big) multipliers happening before they are supposed happen, which results in returns being higher of what they're supposed to be.
unlucky in context of EU: (big) multipliers happening after they are supposed happen, which results in returns being lower what they're supposed to be.
So your 2x1k multi in 3 days is pretty worthless for determining whether it's luck or not.

here's where i was very lucky so far:
getting times 500 multi within my first 1000 drops in hell (within the first year of playing)
getting times 1000 multi on EP II BP within my first 250 clicks, BP wasn't even QR 22 by that time (just started skilling/getting BPs on that one, first year of playing)

and here's how it was rather normal:
times 1000 multipliers being about 100k clicks apart. (year 1/2)

here's how i was very unlucky so far:
390k crafts without any big multipliers (very long dry period), then came 4 times 1000 multipliers within 10k clicks. Pretty unlucky for the first 390k crafts... (year 3/4)

I can say i've seen it all, the good, the bad, the normal ^^
 
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~ Cirrus ~

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When i was reading about shared loot i was found some test with the looter skills.
Here it is for you / anybody who may missed it.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?304635-Return-in-Shared-Loot-Team-Hunting-is-based-on-Cost-Efficiency-Looter-Prof-not-just-Cost&p=3651434&viewfull=1#post3651434

Puny, with 2 hunters in team, first missed the shot, other killed it, same weapon, same efficiency, same cost, so by that, the return should be the same for them, the only difference was the looter skills.
By that test, lvl2 and lvl41 almost 3% difference in return.
Than the lvl0 and lvl100 difference maybe not that small to be ignored.
So thanks to my Looter skills that I have 60% return and not 57% :yay:

Anyway, this Cant' be tested, you could not read the result since you can't tell if yes or no the looter skills made the difference.
Also it would need 2 identical avatars, twins, whith same "story", same deposits, same amount cycled before, etc..
And furthermore, this is a test on 2 mob..:rolleyes:

I would eventually consider seriously a test on 10K mob.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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please read how i defined luck. Here it is again:...
All I said is that there is no such thing as "Luck".

Neither IRL nor ingame.

results in returns being higher of what they're supposed to be.
That's where you find "luck", but you're wrong..

Result is ALWAYS what it's suposed to be. (sadly) :yup:
 
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