Suggestion: Import/export office/terminal

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Just wrote this in another thread, but figured this deserves a discussion thread on its own since its a wholey different aproach to made space proposals from the past and could have huge potential for the universe as a whole if done right.

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One inherent flaw of space is that Mindark allowed players to fly into space with their inventory untouched from the very beginning, people growing up on non-pvp planets who never trained to live a life were you constantly watch your back or have your friends do it for you. Of course this would lead and will continue to lead to many bad experiences for people who just go unprepared.
One way to change this whole experience would be to make it impossible to go to space with 'undeclared' goods.
Have an import/export office/terminal on every planet that allows you to choose amongst your 'lootables' (and nonlootable items of which you have multiple) to select what you 'declare' - everything that you declare you can take to space everything else will automatically get moved to storage (new tab 'undeclared goods', where things remain for up to a week until they get autosorted in the other tab categories) with a notification to you about the items that have been moved back to storage. This would ensure that noone ever again will enter space with goods that were unintented, noone will have a bad surprise and everyone who risks goods does so fully conscious about it.
If these declared goods get traded or lootet in space, they would still be declared goods but no longer match the name of the avatar who declared them therefor when entering a planet the new owner would have to declare them again generating an incentive to negotiate with a respective previous owner to trade goods back for a fee (as the previous owner would not have to declare them again) - this could open up the possibility of a 'black market' in space. Additionally constantly declaring goods from other people when comming from space, could lead to negative karma which could lead to increased 'import tax' up to the point where the 'smuggler profession' becomes viable (eg trading goods to other players to get them imported, another incentive for the 'black market').
Planet partners could have the option to adjust their import/export taxes depending on how much separation they would like between economies as well as earning a share from the taxes to boost their local economies and/or personal revenue.
Depending on the total volume of declared taxes per planet partner their could be optional impacts to their economies.For example local currencies/currency exchange rates that alow further adjustments to the efficiency of local items on homeplanets - local currencies could be used for item repairs in local repairtools to allow reduced repaircosts for items used on their homeplanets. These dependencies could open the door for currency trades which could help boost local economies when they get weaker as well as slow down large economies when they become to dominant (items from weak economies becomming more efficent as items from strong economies become less efficient).
These currency trades will in turn generate volatility in item markups which will drive trade throughout the universe.
 

Alainax

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So much imagination, and I cant even imagine what to have for dinner :laugh:

Sounds very workable and solves a lot of issues without a huge amount of upheaval.
 

morgoth

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lol to complex for MA to ever implement, but I love the idea. A RCE with a real working economy, what a dream :yay:
 

Granny Rowan

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Interesting as this idea is.. I am not sure it would have a positive effect in space. People HATE paperwork. For many this could just leave them trapped on one planet.

Assuming it works as you describe:
How do you envisage it working with warp ships and summons to space?
What about the extra delay when folk just want fast transit to an event, or to meet for a trade.
What about the delays when a group doing a shared warp all have to do this and someone went afk ?

Simpler would be a plain warning..not that space is pvp.. yeh we know that..BUT
You are entering PVP and you are carrying lootables (list). Do you wish to continue?
A quick read of the list and you can check if it is as you would expect or if you failed to check properly and have things you don't want to take to space, you could then drop back down to storage or refuse the summon.

Though tbh I am not sure we should be offering a nanny state, where they can only do things if they register, we are grown adults, take our own risks and learn (well some of us do) from our mistakes.

As for taxes on import and export.. seriously ??!!
People have only just started coming to space more because there is no longer a 2 ped entry fee to planet, it would imo be insta death to any planet partner that introduced such a tax

Yes lootable pvp is a pain for many, but it has been here a long time and folk need to get used to it. Strong warnings re loot should help the newbs
Improved choice of where we spawn in space could also help, so we are not all clustered at a well patrolled small location.

Planets are round, even the width of the sphere edge is not used as an option for random spawn, let alone the full 360. What I would prefer is a change to the space entry mechanics - give players a choice.. Make pvp less campable and more active
 
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Interesting as this idea is.. I am not sure it would have a positive effect in space. People HATE paperwork. For many this could just leave them trapped on one planet.

Assuming it works as you describe:
How do you envisage it working with warp ships and summons to space?
What about the extra delay when folk just want fast transit to an event, or to meet for a trade.
What about the delays when a group doing a shared warp all have to do this and someone went afk ?

Simpler would be a plain warning..not that space is pvp.. yeh we know that..BUT
You are entering PVP and you are carrying lootables (list). Do you wish to continue?
A quick read of the list and you can check if it is as you would expect or if you failed to check properly and have things you don't want to take to space, you could then drop back down to storage or refuse the summon.

Though tbh I am not sure we should be offering a nanny state, where they can only do things if they register, we are grown adults, take our own risks and learn (well some of us do) from our mistakes.

As for taxes on import and export.. seriously ??!!
People have only just started coming to space more because there is no longer a 2 ped entry fee to planet, it would imo be insta death to any planet partner that introduced such a tax

Yes lootable pvp is a pain for many, but it has been here a long time and folk need to get used to it. Strong warnings re loot should help the newbs
Improved choice of where we spawn in space could also help, so we are not all clustered at a well patrolled small location.

Planets are round, even the width of the sphere edge is not used as an option for random spawn, let alone the full 360. What I would prefer is a change to the space entry mechanics - give players a choice.. Make pvp less campable and more active
There could be a quick declaration button that allows you to declare everything for an increased one time fee for those who dont want to take the cheaper route of declaring everything at the office.
Once you have declared everything you can take it back and forth between planets without having to declare it again, only new declarations would be required for new items/lootables - so your standard equippment will only be a one time effort.
This makes however sure that people can no longer move trading goods between planets without paying for them and will encourage a 'space trader' profession where people buy on one planet and sell at the other or buy on 'black market' and import at other planets.

In regards to summons, anyone can still quickly accept them - the undeclared goods get left behind planetside as i mentioned - so those in a hurry may have to pick up a few things later if they dont want to pay the 'quickdeclaration' fee.
Any change in entropia usually takes players to adapt for a short while and it may prove a good thing when people can no longer be lured unprepared into a lootable pvp zone, but actually spent their time to do their research and be rdy for it (with their posessions safe if they want to).
 

jetsina

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In regards to summons, anyone can still quickly accept them - the undeclared goods get left behind planetside as i mentioned ...
I can see it now - off into space, but my newly bought thruster gets left behind because it's not declared :scratch2:. Nope, I also don't like the idea of the paperwork - I'd much rather have a list of carried lootables as part of the entering space message (or summons).

It also has the fun benefit of getting the message that I'm taking shit into space (1 dung) each time I do so. It's one message I really think people would love to get and would put a smile on their faces when they confirm their massive cargo!

We were so close to the implementation of missions that something must have been 'unsolvable' at the time. The crates are a legacy of this and have a refining/unrefining 'tax' at each end of something like 30 pecs per k of sweat - I dunno about other stuff, so that is a sort of tax already, but in this case for making stuff unlootable. Even that is preferable to paying to simply get stuff onto a space declaration list, imho.
 
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I can see it now - off into space, but my newly bought thruster gets left behind because it's not declared :scratch2:. Nope, I also don't like the idea of the paperwork - I'd much rather have a list of carried lootables as part of the entering space message (or summons).

It also has the fun benefit of getting the message that I'm taking shit into space (1 dung) each time I do so. It's one message I really think people would love to get and would put a smile on their faces when they confirm their massive cargo!

We were so close to the implementation of missions that something must have been 'unsolvable' at the time. The crates are a legacy of this and have a refining/unrefining 'tax' at each end of something like 30 pecs per k of sweat - I dunno about other stuff, so that is a sort of tax already, but in this case for making stuff unlootable. Even that is preferable to paying to simply get stuff onto a space declaration list, imho.
You wouldnt miss out on your thruster, you would only need to have to declare them if you had multiples of them as the system would consider any singular item as autodeclared - but those are the small things and any larger system may need a tweak here or there to make it work for all situations.
In the larger picture however the feature of declaring goods for space would make sure that no single player or organisation of players can move a thousand crafted goods from one planet to another and crush the respective local economy before it even picks up.
As after the import/export office comes into play every item (even the unlootable ones) would gain in value if moved to another planet and therefor locally crafted goods would have an economic advantage.
 

Vadio

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No thank you
 

jak

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Love it!!!!
 

xxPriestxx

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I like this idea, for the exact same reasons I think they should fix the space logout exploit that is abused all day every day. I would hope they do both and not just one, if they do anything.

Same reasoning for both. And, I think this is a great idea.

My guess is that they will never do either... but it would stimulate and arguably create a universal economy.
 

Rapido

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interested, will follow this tread........
 

San

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I like this idea, for the exact same reasons I think they should fix the space logout exploit that is abused all day every day. I would hope they do both and not just one, if they do anything.

Same reasoning for both. And, I think this is a great idea.

My guess is that they will never do either... but it would stimulate and arguably create a universal economy.
My hope is that your guess is right. You and your handul friends can stomp with your foot all day long, this "exploit" is the only thing which keeps most people in there at all. If they wanted to play with you (i.e. become your plaything), they'd come in droves. Otherwise, choke off outer planets entirely and see if Space will survive with them. The idea to force everybody through pvp if they want to go anywhere is and was wrong from the get-go, at least in this real-cash game. I described a possible alternative here and if Space does not become attractive enough to live on something other than the current racket it has no business to exist.

Regarding OP, I think it's an honorable effort but I'm with those who dislike the bureaucracy and any additional complications. It also would add maybe too much to the cost of transporting low-markup materials. Unless the purpose was to make it prohibitive, in which case the above applies even more.

An extended warning that lists lootable items you carry upon entering space would be a good thing though.
 

morgoth

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My hope is that your guess is right. You and your handul friends can stomp with your foot all day long, this "exploit" is the only thing which keeps most people in there at all. If they wanted to play with you (i.e. become your plaything), they'd come in droves. Otherwise, choke off outer planets entirely and see if Space will survive with them. The idea to force everybody through pvp if they want to go anywhere is and was wrong from the get-go, at least in this real-cash game. I described a possible alternative here and if Space does not become attractive enough to live on something other than the current racket it has no business to exist.

Regarding OP, I think it's an honorable effort but I'm with those who dislike the bureaucracy and any additional complications. It also would add maybe too much to the cost of transporting low-markup materials. Unless the purpose was to make it prohibitive, in which case the above applies even more.

An extended warning that lists lootable items you carry upon entering space would be a good thing though.


Personally I think the best thing they could do is make space 10 times bigger and make a non-pvp path between planets. Naturally the path would have to be significantly longer then the short pvp path, but it would give players an option to take longer, or pay for a quick warp to get to their destination without taking hours of game play navigating the long non-pvp path.

Would be nice if they had some non-pvp hunting zones for small cosmics and stuff on that path so newer space players can learn in a safer environment before trying to hunt in pvp zones. Same with space mining, give a newbie zone for people to learn it, then go try for rare stuff in pvp.

idk, they could do damn near anything with space and get a round of applause
 
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San

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Personally I think the best thing they could do is make space 10 times bigger and make a non-pvp path between planets. Naturally the path would have to be significantly longer then the short pvp path, but it would give players an option to take longer, or pay for a quick warp to get to their destination without taking hours of game play navigating the long non-pvp path.

Would be nice if they had some non-pvp hunting zones for small cosmics and stuff on that path so newer space players can learn in a safer environment before trying to hunt in pvp zones. Same with space mining, give a newbie zone for people to learn it, then go try for rare stuff in pvp.

idk, they could do damn near anything with space and get a round of applause
This would be cool. I had a similar suggestion some time ago, making a safe path around the outer rim which is now called "deep space" where you can't enter, so you can travel undisturbed at least without loot (sorry gave you the wrong link in rep comment, can't find it again right now). Use maybe a virtual server to simulate these areas cost-effectively as there would be no content, no interaction and sparse traffic. If there is a planet in the way you want to hop over, either make z coords >2048 and <-2048 traversable without landing or, since the landing fees are now removed, going through with one space thruster decay may not be a problem. The map side from which you launch may determine which side you're headed in space, either way around the rim or toward the center with lootable space.
 
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