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Question: is boting good ?

Goldenboy24 said:
no need to talk about solutions to boting yet, when there is every second comment saying that boting is good for mindark, hence, good for the game, if we punish boting, if we reduce the ammount of bots, what are the positive and negative consequences of that, if everybody is "forced" to play the game, what are the expectations we will see, what will happen with markup, with tt returns, are people going to leave on mass, give your opinions
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I think you're mistaking what we're trying to say here. Yes its good for MA in the short term, but just think long term, all those players that get pissed off and quit or reduce play and depo signifficantly, myself being part of that demographic. 20 years is nice, I'd love 20 more but the way things are going... Not so sure, and we all know what uncertainty means among investing players... they will stop investing. End of.
 
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fact is, it´s a RCE game - everything what involves money has to be as honest, as openly handled as possible to build trust... everything what gives someone an unfair advantage over all others is a NO - and letting my machine running 24/7 would give me an unfair advanatage over others - and no ,, the fact that "everyone" can do it the same way is not valid - but also a fact is that MA reacted to long ago used autoclickers (which were illegal ingame) by inventing the F button, even though it took some years - MA is short sigthed in such cases, they don´t realize that the main reason why the game still runs are the mid level players who used to love the game and are willing to depo their share .. botters .. probably not that much or high rollers ... they don´t need to since they have the hand on the MU .. when enough mid level player get pissed it won´t be a good end
 
So currently there's 2 sides to Entropia

There's real gameplay and a real community within multiples places, that by combinied force creates events and goals to entertain big groups of players (or communities) and thats gameplay that doesent revolve around grinding all day long.

Then there's another side of Entropia, that is the Solo player grinding away, and to be honest there's not much game there except the graphics, lore and loot, i can't blame them for using automatic tools to play for them.

There is multiple that writes about how they hope they'll do something and bring back a lot of people, and actually its very likely it could be done, it entirely depends on Mindark to create whatever needed to bring back more gameplay to the game.

Non RCE MMO's rely on gameplay mechanics and storelines to keep the player engaged and active in the game, they have been relying too much on the RCE aspect doing it for them combinied with events promising great prizes. But they can implement many systems to create communities and social aspects everywhere within Entropia if they want to.

We just dont really know the real truth about what they want, we can only hope. for the casual player that is realistic about being able to touch any ground with the higher end of the playerbase would need to either be without a job and a lot of time on their hands to "press F" all day long, or use automatic tools to get there. Progress in EU is very different to any other game, it takes years of natural skilling (especially if you play sitting active in front of the screen) and a sizable budget just to get to any playing field that is on a medium level.

Lastly another aspect, you need to develop and change without destroying your customerbase, any bigger changes impacts the value of items and gear people used years to obtain, so its a very risky situation to change the game in a new direction, and personally i hope there will be a lot more focus on expanding activities and taking gameplay to a much higher level of engagement than we see today,
 
Bots need to go. End of story. Log the F off, and give the rest of us a chance. If MA truly needs to rely on the money the bots are bringing in to the game, then the sky is truly falling, and we might as well all cash out now; the 150-200 of us that actually still play the game.
 
LuisArkadov said:
Brave New World
.

Kudos to those who read the trends years ago and now live countryside, grow their own food and found something meaningful to do.

Feels more like living in The Matrix with every passing day.
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Exactly!
Sold our house in the Netherlands, bought cortijo in the hart of Andalusia (Spain) with 5,5 hectares of fertile land, with own water well in a town that's like stepping back 40 years in time.

Screw all these human bots who have their lives dictated. 👌👊
 
wizz said:
Exactly!
Sold our house in the Netherlands, bought cortijo in the hart of Andalusia (Spain) with 5,5 hectares of fertile land, with own water well in a town that's like stepping back 40 years in time.

Screw all these human bots who have their lives dictated. 👌👊
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you mean except for the ones you rub virtual elbows with on the internet. I have a few friends who like to say they live "off grid" but they sure do love their cell phones and internets.
 
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is botting good?

nah its not. easy answer lmao
 
All i shall say is as a core miner, there is legit no benefit of having mining bots. I dont know the arguments for the ppl supporting hunting bots, but mining bots have legit no place in this game.
 
Jade Draconis said:
All i shall say is as a core miner, there is legit no benefit of having mining bots. I dont know the arguments for the ppl supporting hunting bots, but mining bots have legit no place in this game.
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Theres a certain someone in this game that proves otherwise, you can profit in mining even if you dont abuse the wave system, or at least I do. Of course active play will allow you to reap more rewards in less time due to how the waves work, but being able to go pretty much all day without stopping would balance it out.
 
No, and isn't it against the official rules of not allowing bots? Just the other day an AV was in the same spot for ten minutes or more in a high low-level mob density area hitting everything almost without moving, just firing. Looked like a bot to me.
 
Imagine unironically thinking that bots are good, lol.

There is no world where bots do more good then harm.
(Well, maybe in osrs it's can be good sometimes, but still would rather not have them)
 
Crafting is botting. Resource extraction is botting. MA created those to minimise repetitive actions for their customers. So I’d say MA supports this outcome.
 
Westy said:
Crafting is botting. Resource extraction is botting. MA created those to minimise repetitive actions for their customers. So I’d say MA supports this outcome.
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Crafting uses markup to create items to attempt to sell. If you overdo it, then you burned markup materials in the process that stimulate both hunting and mining. Idk why extracting even exists honestly, just to burn some extra ped from the player, but it's just like if you looted a kill slow AF. The process actually reduces potential markup generated. Hunting generates markup, and has next to no markup input. Only damage enhancers for the vast majority of botters. So they all have extremely different effects on the economy.

Ask a high cycle hunter how much markup they buy per week of gameplay for hunting activity. Ask a high cycling crafter (EP crafters are a bit of an exception) and the answer will be significantly higher.
 
the poeple who think bots are good, belive that the bots generate more revenue for mindark then regular players ever could, based on their logic, if 1 player had 100 bots running, this would be even better then him just running one bot

they also claim, bots do not make TT profit, therefore, there is no problem with boting, this implies, that if bots DID make tt profit, they would suddely have an issue with them, but it is irelevant if a bot makes TT profit or not, since a regular player also cant make TT profit, and if it were possible that a regular player made TT profit, it is likely, that a bot doing the same task would aswell

in entropia, materials have value becouse they are needed, but hard to get, to get them, one must spend time and money, within that process, if boting were alowed, time would become a higher expense for normal players, materials would lose value, or just drop less often, since anything that was profitable would be hunted by bots
 
Westy said:
Crafting is botting. Resource extraction is botting. MA created those to minimise repetitive actions for their customers. So I’d say MA supports this outcome.
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lets take your arguements into the extreme, for crafting, you still have to wait for each item to be crafted, why not just give the ability to craft 10k clicks instantly, same for mining, why at all have the need to run around droping bombs, when you could just go to a crafting machine and input, id like to drop 1k bombs in this area, and get the results instantly, if your arguement were true, that mindark wants this, then entropia would be a browser game with slot machines, and nothing would cost time to perform, afterall, time reduces how much money you can spend
 
Goldenboy24 said:
lets take your arguements into the extreme, for crafting, you still have to wait for each item to be crafted, why not just give the ability to craft 10k clicks instantly, same for mining, why at all have the need to run around droping bombs, when you could just go to a crafting machine and input, id like to drop 1k bombs in this area, and get the results instantly, if your arguement were true, that mindark wants this, then entropia would be a browser game with slot machines, and nothing would cost time to perform, afterall, time reduces how much money you can spend
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A botting hunter still has to wait for loot. Only difference is crafters are given a macro button to use and hunters are not (with a small exception, autoloots). I still think the 3 mechanisms are at their core the same thing in MA's code. Just the initiation, wait, outcome, looting are presented differently. So for all the differences and complaints were still talking about the same thing. There was a time crafting was manual clicks. Mining extraction was manual clicks. So shall we go back to PE days? Some would argue yes.
 
Westy said:
A botting hunter still has to wait for loot. Only difference is crafters are given a macro button to use and hunters are not (with a small exception, autoloots). I still think the 3 mechanisms are at their core the same thing in MA's code. Just the initiation, wait, outcome, looting are presented differently. So for all the differences and complaints were still talking about the same thing. There was a time crafting was manual clicks. Mining extraction was manual clicks. So shall we go back to PE days? Some would argue yes.
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can you adress the point i was making, if all tasks could be performed instantly at a slotmachine, and i mean instantly in the sense of, you are one click away from killing a milion daikibas, would that be better then it is now, where you are limited by dps how fast you can spend money, and where you are limited by runing and extracting how fast you can mine resources, would it be better, if all tasks would be performed instantly, and please add an explanation to your answer
 
Goldenboy24 said:
can you adress the point i was making, if all tasks could be performed instantly at a slotmachine, and i mean instantly in the sense of, you are one click away from killing a milion daikibas, would that be better then it is now, where you are limited by dps how fast you can spend money, and where you are limited by runing and extracting how fast you can mine resources, would it be better, if all tasks would be performed instantly, and please add an explanation to your answer
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No i wouldn't play the game if it was like that. The best fun is getting with your mates and hunting together. We all know there is so much more engagement MA could be doing. but that was my point (lol at thumbs down Sulje i only state how it is don't be cut at me if you don't like MA i don't work there or make their decisions). The fact is MA introduced from what was a fully manual game automation in crafting, mining and hunting. So therefore they support it. And likely they'll continue down this path. And clearly they do nothing about macro's.
 
Westy said:
No i wouldn't play the game if it was like that. The best fun is getting with your mates and hunting together. We all know there is so much more engagement MA could be doing. but that was my point (lol at thumbs down Sulje i only state how it is don't be cut at me if you don't like MA i don't work there or make their decisions). The fact is MA introduced from what was a fully manual game automation in crafting, mining and hunting. So therefore they support it. And likely they'll continue down this path. And clearly they do nothing about macro's.
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yeah you are right, crafting is same as afk hunting.
 
Westy said:
A botting hunter still has to wait for loot. Only difference is crafters are given a macro button to use and hunters are not (with a small exception, autoloots). I still think the 3 mechanisms are at their core the same thing in MA's code. Just the initiation, wait, outcome, looting are presented differently. So for all the differences and complaints were still talking about the same thing. There was a time crafting was manual clicks. Mining extraction was manual clicks. So shall we go back to PE days? Some would argue yes.
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So hunter bots are regularly used then? Was only guessing.
 
INTERNUT said:
So hunter bots are regularly used then? Was only guessing.
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well we don't really know. there are some beasts out there who can sit and game for days. i'm too old for that shit and have work, family and other interests. There's plenty of keyboards out there with macro functions and probably a lot of player have these gamer keyboards.
So lets play with some numbers and make a wild stab in the dark. If EL has roughly 5k hunters. Lets say 10% use or tried a macro (maybe they just turn it on to go to the toilet or something). So a rough guess maybe 500 players. That seems high to me. But how would you know with all the instances.
 
Westy said:
well we don't really know. there are some beasts out there who can sit and game for days. i'm too old for that shit and have work, family and other interests. There's plenty of keyboards out there with macro functions and probably a lot of player have these gamer keyboards.
So lets play with some numbers and make a wild stab in the dark. If EL has roughly 5k hunters. Lets say 10% use or tried a macro (maybe they just turn it on to go to the toilet or something). So a rough guess maybe 500 players. That seems high to me. But how would you know with all the instances.
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No I guess not, but didn't think of gaming keyboards with macro functions - maybe that's what this player was using and no doubt many other players.
 
INTERNUT said:
No I guess not, but didn't think of gaming keyboards with macro functions - maybe that's what this player was using and no doubt many other players.
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90% on what people call bots is actually a macro function that almost ALL keyboards have nowadays.

If you stop to think, Mindark made the game playable with only one key (F key), introduced rings and attachments with life steal that allow us to play for hours without even heal, 3 days auto loot pills and rings/pets with auto loot function and of course the instances that make sure you don't mess up with anyone's game play.

Now tell me who is the main responsible for this massive use of macros that I repeat almost ALL decent keyboards nowadays have, us player or MA? 🤔
 
Well my Asus gaming laptop doesn't have macro functions as I'm sure many don't and I wasn't aware that dedicated gaming keyboards did as I've never used one. With desktops/towers I've only ever used ordinary one's. As to who is responsible, it would have to be players that use macro keyboards, but then why does MA say you can't use bots/scripts or similar.
 
I remember back in the day when you needed to aim manually on the mob and click for every attack yourself and that misses costed ammo. Sure that was fun but it was 20 years ago - no way I would have the energy for that after a full day of work now. Interact is awesome and I think a lot of the people "botting" are just players who don't want to hunt very actively and just have a F-macro while watching netflix but still being in control of their avatar for a more relaxed gameplay.

As for original question my personal belief is that it is good for the game as long as people are in control of their avatar as to not hurt other players' gameplay. We not getting any younger
 
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