Is Mayhem Pay-to-Win or Luck?

Is Mayhem Pay-to-Win or Luck?


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Legends

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Is Mayhem Pay-to-Win or Luck?

I've been giving this question much thought lately and I'm really curious to see where people stand on this.

Choose the one statement that you agree with most:
1. Winning Mayhem is pure luck
2. To win you need mostly luck, good equipment helps
3. Luck and Equipment are equally important to win Mayhem
4. You need mostly good equipment, luck helps
5. Mayhem is just Pay-to-Win: best equipment wins

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GxB

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dont know if it has changed but in this category where you had to survive the longest time the one with the most regen pills and best armor + fap wins. so that category is purely pay to win.

so i would rework this poll and differentiate the categories.
 

Legends

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dont know if it has changed but in this category where you had to survive the longest time the one with the most regen pills and best armor + fap wins. so that category is purely pay to win.

so i would rework this poll and differentiate the categories.
I'm talking about Annihilation
 

MeiGDLing

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4. You need mostly good equipment, luck helps
5. Mayhem is just Pay-to-Win: best equipment wins


Its somewhere in the middle of these two, you need to be close to the top dps weapon in your cat ( and has supporting gear stims/rings etc) and it becomes more important the higher you go, then within that range of players other factors like bankroll/playstyle and stuff helps because the more runs you can do the better chance at a good score (luck but not pure luck more kills more chance so more dps is still an edge but not an insummountable one within reason)

To give two examples I know someone in a mid cat who got a 5k pointer and is unlikely to even top 10 cus their weapon isnt even close to top dps and i know someone near top of possible dps in their cat who is almost certain to top 10 despite none of their runs yielding more than a 1k pointer.
 

Legends

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To give two examples I know someone in a mid cat who got a 5k pointer and is unlikely to even top 10 cus their weapon isnt even close to top dps and i know someone near top of possible dps in their cat who is almost certain to top 10 despite none of their runs yielding more than a 1k pointer.
I'm actually curious which Category you are talking about because I'm in Cat 3 right now and I'll tell you it's a completely different picture. I'm level 44.5, so right at the top, I'm using weapons that are very close to the 60 max base dps and have most of the buffs that count like faster reload, crit chance and crit damage increase maxed out and I can't get near the top 10. 32 hours so far and no 5k still. But if I get a 5k, I'm guaranteed to be in the top 3.

So in my case it just seems like luck. I would say that in my Category there's probably only a few players that actually got a 5k. So if you get a 5k you can win, if not, you can't. Maybe it's different for Cat 10 though...
 

Lars

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It's mostly about equipment until you have close to max DPS for your category.

If we presume you have close to max DPS for your category, it's all about luck.

CAT10 is a different ballpark since DPS is uncapped, so it's more dependent on gear.
 

slither

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Kill all bosses = 4750
Points gained (no bosses) ~ 2500

That ~2500points can be increased by either shooting more mobs or getting lucky with the 500+ point drops.

Thats how it seems to work for me. It could be different if you have an uber 2.0 weapon.
 

wizz

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I'd say you need both to win.
With crap equipment the odds to win are minimal.
Sure, with enough luck, even with very few kills, you could get several 5k points.
But chances are minimal or next to zero.
With enough kills but with no luck at all, your chances to win are also zero.

So you do need enough kills, so good equipment, AND you need a very good portion of luck.

So I'd say you need both.
 

Hego Damask

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I'm actually curious which Category you are talking about because I'm in Cat 3 right now and I'll tell you it's a completely different picture. I'm level 44.5, so right at the top, I'm using weapons that are very close to the 60 max base dps and have most of the buffs that count like faster reload, crit chance and crit damage increase maxed out and I can't get near the top 10. 32 hours so far and no 5k still. But if I get a 5k, I'm guaranteed to be in the top 3.

So in my case it just seems like luck. I would say that in my Category there's probably only a few players that actually got a 5k. So if you get a 5k you can win, if not, you can't. Maybe it's different for Cat 10 though...
You also have dmg enhancer's?
Mayhem needs guns with high tiers, for a mayhem, a t5 is a low tier.
I have watching market and buying guns for my future mayhem runs in higher category months before the event.
Watching gun for CAT2 since christmas and my first cat2 annihilation will be the summer, i tried to win the cat1 this last time, 3 tries, 2nd, 3rd and currently 6th place, i give up and move to cat2.

Got a t6 not long ago, that i just traded for a t8.9 yesterday, i would like it to be t9 till summer, that will be +90% base dmg.

Luck is very important to win, my first mayhem was lucky, 5k, 2,5k, many 1k-500-250 scores, still not won, just 2nd place. Not got much luck at christmas, only 1 x 1k and some 250 score's, still was 3rd. Bad luck at easter, only 1 x 250 score, currently on 6th place.

Looking forward for the summer mayhem, i would like to win that with the t9 gun :)
 

Angel O2 Mercer

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You need good equipment to compete and good luck to be at the top.
 

Ino

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If your question asks only about winning the first place then the answer is pure luck, you need gear and the 5k. To get in top 10 it is all about gear, I got an 8th, a 6th and a 10th place without ever getting a 5k, all in cat.3 .
 

Legends

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You also have dmg enhancer's?
Mayhem needs guns with high tiers, for a mayhem, a t5 is a low tier.
I have watching market and buying guns for my future mayhem runs in higher category months before the event.
Watching gun for CAT2 since christmas and my first cat2 annihilation will be the summer, i tried to win the cat1 this last time, 3 tries, 2nd, 3rd and currently 6th place, i give up and move to cat2.
No I'm just using regular limited guns. I take your point but I would argue still that's no guarantee to win.

In 32 hours I killed over 10k mobs and I did not get a 5k points. Even with a tier 10 gun, which just allow me to kill them faster, it would not necessarily give me a 5k point. If I kill those 10k mobs in 22 hours instead of 32, does that mean I get a 5k point? No...

I understand that with more dps you kill more total mobs in 10 hours and that this gives you more chances to get more points, but it's still no guarantee that you get enough points to win. And right now it seems that without a 5k, it's not possible to win.

Here's another question: How many hours before you get a 5k? Or what is the drop rate of the 5k? Do I have to do 10 runs before I can reasonably expect to get one?
 

Hego Damask

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In 32 hours I killed over 10k mobs and I did not get a 5k points. Even with a tier 10 gun, which just allow me to kill them faster, it would not necessarily give me a 5k point. If I kill those 10k mobs in 22 hours instead of 32, does that mean I get a 5k point? No...
No, that is not mean you get a 5k score.
Top1 place is pure luck, but without proper equippment, you probably wont be even in range to win with an 5k, like you also said if you would get an 5k, you would be in top3, would you win cat3 with an 5k added to your score?
I wont win cat1 even if i get an 5k score, that is still just 2nd place.
The current 1st is a soc mate, we talked about what gear we used, he have a higher dps gun with t8, that is like 30-40% more dmg than me.
That is the reason why im not even in range to win if i get an 5k score like him, he still would beat me.

As somebody already answered, mayhem score is for easter:

19 x boss kills = 4750 score.
if you not kill fast enough, they wont spawn every 30 mins.

normal score from eviscerators, for me it was around 4000 score for 10 hours, it was with t5 gun, now add 40% more dmg for t9 gun, and imagine 30% more score, i would be around 3rd place, with that only 1 x 250 bonus, but with the more kills may i would get 1-2 more bonus score and would be 2nd place, or first with an 5k than.

So with better equippment, my 6th place would be 2-3rd without luck, or if i get a lucky 5k i would win, if my equippment would match the current leader, and my luck too.

Better equippment and luck - maybe first, maybe not
Better equippment without luck - top3
Current equippment and luck - top3
Current equippment without luck - 6th


I think Angel O2 Mercer said the perfect answer:

You need good equipment to compete and good luck to be at the top.
 
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Legends

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No, that is not mean you get a 5k score.
Top1 place is pure luck, but without proper equippment, you probably wont be even in range to win with an 5k, like you also said if you would get an 5k, you would be in top3, would you win cat3 with an 5k added to your score?
If I got a 5k, yes I would be 1st, because in the 2 runs I finished I had about 9.7k points total (I abandoned 2 and just started another one). Currently the 1st place only has 13.8k, so if I got a 5k on my 9.7k I would beat that, just with regular limited weapons that only tier up to 2 on average.

Reason I said top 3 is because that's really all I care about to get the placement token.
 

Hego Damask

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If I got a 5k, yes I would be 1st
Ok, maybe its special case.
The guy sold me the t8.9 gun for cat2 yesterday, claimed he is currently 1st in cat3 annihilation with it.
So neither he used proper equippment, but he got luck, while you not.
It was 1:00am so i didnt checked his score, i wanted to go to sleep, but as you write it now, makes sense.

That is a 41 dps gun with 8x enhacers about 73dps
Your 60 dps with 2x enhancers are also between 60-72dps
 

Captain Jack

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As one who has been working with the best gear for my category for several seasons, I will say option 2 is most accurate.
 

Xen

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Generally you have to have both.

You can be very lucky with two 5k and win with modest gear, but that's very rare.
 

slick27

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Done 3 runs with limited guns best i could get was 7996 with pills, mod ares, improved a105. Even if i got a 5k point still no chance compared to some others.
 

Fforest

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I believe there is an element of luck, but good equipment helps, the best equipment even more so :)

I have no choice but to play in Cat 10 these days. I have OK rings and same pills as everyone else.

However, while i can use very good (L) weapons and amps, I cannot come close to putting out the same DPS as high tiered UL guns.

The chance of occasional 5k point drops increases with the number of kills you can make, so the number of loot events goes up the more DPS you pump out.

For that reason, I am defeated by game mechanics every time as I suspect i can only do half the kill speed of some people in my Category. I just happened to be in Cat10 practice Halloween with Cerb last year and from what I saw, he was dropping 3 mobs to my 1.

Without a huge slice of luck, killspeed and maths will always determine how these events go in my opinion.

Ff
 

SuperKanjo

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Nothing to add that hasn't been said before. You need luck to have the dice roll in your favor, and you need good equipment to get more rolls of the dice.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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It has been requested several times already..

MA please remove 5K points, or at least swap it whith a 2K or 2.5K.
You can beat a 5K by getting 2 x 2.5K, but how are you supposed to get 5 times 1K ?..

It's OK to have randomness there, but the perfect mix would be 50% luck, 50% gear/skills, and this 5K point makes it more like 80/20.

You got a 5K you have a chance to be placed, if you don't, you have no chance.

I've done more than 25H now, killing alooot (get boss every 30 minutes), and no 5K , not even a 1K anyway..
Pretty sure some people who will be in top 10 will have killed 2 times less mobs than me..
 

Darclash

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I firmly believe that MA only "allows" certain avatars to win these top prizes. why? because they cant let true randomness happen and for some newb or a constantly withdrawing player win. if this were to happen they run the risk of the player withdrawing winnings and leaving. MA allows those certain avatars to win and you can see the same names over and over again, which again leads to more questions. it surely is a pay to win game and every event is such.

the fact that people can rent certain items and almost surely win that category is the sign. only certain items which are limited in number are used to win these. MA knows who has items and what they need to do to keep those players happy. that's why all the categories are setup that way. so big pockets can use the items noone else can afford or obtain due to item limited availability. theres a reason those big cool UL guns don't drop anymore. MA cant have those weapons going to people they cant control. uncontrolled people lead to withdrawing.

everyone says I see only the bad. but I see as its seen. MA will never provide any proof against any of this as it will be revealing the loot code. I see only the way silence and its says so much.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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PS:

Or let the 5K how it is, with same probability of catching it, but then increase the probabilities for the 500 and 1K.

And add a 2500. :wise:

Because in my opinion the problem is not really the 5K itself, but the too big difference between the best and the second best. (so between 1K and 5K)
 

Hego Damask

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I was sure there is a 2500 score bonus, i wrote about getting one at halloween, but checking the rules and the score's (i have written them hourly in every my run's) and no, i didnt get any, maybe it was 2 x 1k close to each other and i was remember them like 2k in that short time, maybe that was fooled me.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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Just finished my second 10H, + 2 times abandon, so at least 27H total I think. (getting boss every 30 minutes)

My best place: 24, whith 8000+ points. :dunce:

Total mutli-point during the last 10H: 1x 250, and 1x 500 (at the very last minute..:rolleyes:)

First one in my cat is 18000+ points..
He probably got 2 x 5K.

That SUX. :yup:
 

Legends

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Just finished my second 10H, + 2 times abandon, so at least 27H total I think. (getting boss every 30 minutes)

My best place: 24, whith 8000+ points. :dunce:

Total mutli-point during the last 10H: 1x 250, and 1x 500 (at the very last minute..:rolleyes:)

First one in my cat is 18000+ points..
He probably got 2 x 5K.

That SUX. :yup:
I guess I've done better than you then, in my 32 hours so far, I got 1x 1k, 4x 500 and I think 2x 250. Best run so far was 9711 which at the time was 6th but is now 12th (haven't checked today).

So without a 5k you can't place obviously, which means it's mostly luck based. But I do understand that if people's perception is that they stand no chance because they don't have good equipment, then the participation will be much less. So in the end I have to agree with the current point system design.

As one who has been working with the best gear for my category for several seasons, I will say option 2 is most accurate.
Thanks Captain Jack, I find this most insightful and I find it aligns perfectly with my current line of thinking on this.
 

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Another way to balance the mayhem between luck and the real efficiency of the player, would be to make the bosses more generous in points.

That's probably the main use of bosses already.
Since you have to kill a minimum number of mobs to make the boss appear a maximum number of times.

But, the problem is that 250 points is not enough to counter a lucky 5K.

If someone makes 19 bosses appear during those 10 hours, which is the maximum (you can't get the points of the 20th since the time ends just before).
That's 19x250= 4750

Meanwhile someone who hunts quietly without hurrying and with unsuitable equipment, will kill only 10 bosses, but if he catches a lucky 5K, he ends up with 7500 points.
You've already lost...

So in addition to adding 2500 points as explained in the previous post,
I think it would be good that the bosses give a minimum of 500 points first.

And even a chance to get a 1K point whith a probability of 1/5.
And why not 2500 point with a probability of 1/20.
(these are just examples, you know what I mean...)

Maybe that even the 5K points should be available only on the bosses. :wise:
 
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Hego Damask

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And even a chance to get a 1K point whith a probability of 1/5.
And why not 2500 point with a probability of 1/20.
(these are just examples, you know what I mean...)

Maybe that even the 5K points should be available only on the bosses.
If this would be the current system, than we would talk now about:

Gear is the important or luck for points from boss.
I have killed x boss and not received any high score from it, while others killed fewer and got so they win.
You cant win without lucky score from boss.

Yes, better equippment is more boss, more chance for high score.
But that again the same as now, better equippment is more mob, more chance for high score.
 

slick27

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So without a 5k you can't place obviously, which means it's mostly luck based. But I do understand that if people's perception is that they stand no chance because they don't have good equipment, then the participation will be much less. So in the end I have to agree with the current point system design.
Not sure on other people but for me I knew I would not get a place, thing what makes me less likely to do another one is for the whole duration maybe over 50 hours in practise and main was I got only 1 limited gun at the start and arso chip limited over pretty much 40k+ ped cycled could be more lost track tbh.

Those numbers might seem small to the pros turnover but for average person not very fun. Only reason I stuck it out was for the points to buy skill pills to try get maxed on gun I bought, still have not either :(
 

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If this would be the current system, than we would talk now about:

Gear is the important or luck for points from boss.
I have killed x boss and not received any high score from it, while others killed fewer and got so they win.
You cant win without lucky score from boss.

Yes, better equippment is more boss, more chance for high score.
But that again the same as now, better equippment is more mob, more chance for high score.
It's not the same, since the number of bosses is a kind of marker of your real efficiency in the category in which you're competing.

If you are not able to make all 19 bosses appear, your efficiency is too low, and therefore you should have less chance to win...

Which doesn't mean you don't have a chance. :)

This wouldn't make the mayhem "gear based only" at all, mostly cause you can't kill more than 19 bosses anyway.
So it wouldn't change anything for all people who can kill fast enough to get all 19 bosses.

It would reduce just a bit the "luck factor" for the ones who can't get the 19 bosses.
And then it would just bring the event closer to 50% luck 50% efficiency.
 
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