Question: Is Mining Resources MU going up a good thing?

[Legends]

If you participate in any of the 3 major professions in EU, surely you have heard or noticed that the MU of many mined resources have gone up a lot lately. Light Liquid shot up to almost 400% late in 2021, Garcen is now at the highest it has ever been in the history of EU, around 180%, Antimagnetic Oil too, at over 400% now, Erdorium is now >200%, etc... But I'm curious what you all think the long-term effects you think this will have for the people who hunt, for the miners and for the crafters.

I can speculate and say well, mining might become profitable again for the miners, the crafters will pass on the increase in costs back to hunters, and well hunters will do the same and pass on the increased 'costs' of hunting in their loot. But I think ultimately, the real answer is more complex than that. For example, what effect will this have on high QR component BPs that use some of these resources, like for example Reinforced Bearings? If a crafter has to pay 200% for Erdorium, won't that make that BP much more valuable now? What about Durable Hood? And if that's the case, won't that just make it more difficult for new crafters to find opportunities and compete? And for hunters, what effect will increased costs of Tiering have? We've seen people crying in here about the rise in Light Liquid mu for months now, imagine if the trend is set to continue, what will that mean? Pay-to-win model?

So here's a brief list of the main price changes latest mining changes had (as of April 2022):

- Garcen: now sitting at 180%, Garcen is needed for many components, notably Durable Hood which is needed for Super Alloy Mountings and level 50/55 ArMatrix guns and AP-30 armor plates. It is also used in large quantities for tier 2 weapon upgrades. Garcen Lubricant is now at the highest it's ever been in the entire history of EU:

​

- Erdorium: now sitting at 200%, Erdorium is used in making Ghost armor, Reinforced Bearings which is needed for level 80/85 ArMatrix guns and High Grade Alloy used in making Infiltrator armor. Not to mention it is also used in large amounts for Tier 5 weapon upgrades. Erdorium Ingot is now at the highest it's ever been in the entire history of EU:

- Belkar: went from ~107% to now almost 130%. Needed for Standard Plate, which in turn is used for Metal Mountings and Hardened Metal Mountings which are used in many ArMatrix and AP plate BPs. Belkar is also needed for making Basic Sensors which are also used in many ArMatrix amps and weapon BPs, not to mention for Widget 1s which starts the whole BP fishing process.

- Antimagnetic Oil: went from ~105% to now >400%. Used in making level 75/80/85 blp ArMatrix guns and level 95/100/105 laser ArMatrix guns.

- Pyrite: went from ~145% to now ~190%, this directly affects the price hunters pay for their damage enhancers.

- Dianthus: now >200%, Dianthus is used in making all of the other weapon enhancers other than Damage.

- Redulite: now almost 600%, used in making level 70/75/80 laser ArMatrix guns.

Etc...


I could go on and on, there's a lot of resources who's markup has gone up a lot lately. But in case anyone has been wondering why the markup of ArMatrix weapons and amps has been going up, look no more, it's pretty plain to see that the reason is the rise in cost of materials to make them.

So the question is: Is this ultimately a positive for the players and the game, or will it have a negative effect?

 

[Edgewise]

So the question is: Is this ultimately a positive for the players and the game

for players who knows what they are doing; yes

or will it have a negative effect?

for players who doesn't know what they are doing; yes

 

[Gopher]

Erdorium looks like it only went up since mayhem, price will prob go back down once the pyrite miners go back to argus

 

[Hijacker27]

for players who knows what they are doing; yes




for players who doesn't know what they are doing; yes

I think higher markups are good as long as its withing reason and there is still a steady supply of the resource. As long as its not MA artificially capping drop rate of a resource and its due to a higher demand I'm all for it

 

[mastermesh]

soon a new game engine will be here so you can expect resources that miners regularly find to be harder to find for a while after that happens... so more price fluctuations are likely soon.

 

[psyche]

Not sure if it is a good thing, but what is causing the MU change?
If droprate decreased causing less supplies, then that is not good.
If people starting buying up supplies, driving up demand, then that is a very good thing.
In my current experience, I haven't noticed droprate changes. So maybe people are just buying up the supplies. So I think I'll vote yes, it's a good thing for now. Until some more veteran miners chimes in and give their information, then I'll change my vote

 

[Granny Rowan]

This is simply the nature of a free market economy, prices are dictated by supply and demand.
If drop rate decreases, either due to variance caused by MA, or MA moving the resource and miners yet to re-discover it, or caused by the amount currently hoarded by miners/crafters in storage (remember every resource is of a fixed amount in total due to the need for MA to account for every pec)
Or, if demand increases, due to need for particular crafted items during events (weapons, heal tools, enhancers etc),
Then prices will rise as the resource demand exceeds supply.
As soon as that demand/supply returns to previousbalance then so within a short time will the prices
The exception being when new items are added to crafting by MA, causing a permanent increase in demand ofparticular resources.
So good thing or bad thing is simply a matter of perspective, ie are you the buyer or the seller of the resource or the item crafted from it.
What it does show is that the economy is active and reactive, which is good for all of us

 

[Vadio]

Well as veteran miner , they pragmatic nerf across all areas
And Healvy Hard Cap , Lower TT return overall , and Put good stuffs behind Waves , i alred know this going happen back in Q4 2019.....
however i confess dont expect to universe take 2-3yr to start reflect this new reality

*Good example about this is pick tm8 or any finder , without amp to try no suffer with cap , most you run be tt food. 50-80% you can argue its not. etc etc , change areas etc etc , but even with Garcen 160 / Cave sap 250 / redu 500 and many others you average markup still around 108% +- most time
you can have peaks of 115-120% if you minning only in wave...... people talk about pyrite... go ahead argus.... if you not hit 17% pyrite you loss
even so go ahead do 10k drop (ore/dual/tri) trow in excel , minus decay/mu on amp/ etc etc

EL Globals per week and Value per week reflect very well how fuck minning is....
2017 is around 800k-1M
2018 drop to around 700-900k
2019 - 650-850k
and keep falling and falling stop be blind boys

i even leave this table to you https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ouid=104551859338562901700&rtpof=true&sd=true do you calcs

As guys said... if people buying more is all way good but i true believe its not case....... this flood each event of UL items make L market tigth
if you expand you vision as well you going know this game relay in fews crafters to sustain MU across a board , if you take out equation UL Hunt / Resell market
you realy going notice that its insane bad thing.....

My2cent

 

[B-K-K]

As for Erdorium it's not sitting at 200% - It's peaking at 200% as a direct result of people needing to tier up their weapons gained from vendors. (Myself included)

Same goes for many other resources needed for tier up weapons - This combined with a somewhat changed mining system.

Give it some time, it will go back to normal.

 

[Alina]

Some dudes were complaining about wave, It was bad for the game for sure. What MA did its good imo, not letting you extract all markup so fast.

Also Vadio i think you really blew the mining profession. Dont want to sound rude, dont get me wrong, take my example i started with 10k peds and made it 50 times mining. In other words you failed to adapt to meta.

 

[Vadio]

Good for you... atm actual minning "meta" is biggest bullshit i see in 12yr that i play this game

 

[Alina]

What can u do ? Do some area research and always double , stop doing only single except pyrite imo L30 L5 is super cheap combo

 

[miathan]

- Redulite: now almost 600%, used in making level 70/75/80 laser ArMatrix guns.

I thought the main use and price driver of Redulite was Level 13 Finder Amplifier?

 

[Legends]

I thought the main use and price driver of Redulite was Level 13 Finder Amplifier?

True, I was trying to focus on the impact these markups would have for hunters, but you are right, this impacts also miners.

 

[romi impi]

if i buy no. if i sell yes

eco based game so supply and demant. i dont see a problem in general ( well for me personally i do if i need to buy ).

as long as there's people willing to pay x amount for something it will sell even if its market manupulation. price gets to high nobody buys it, if someone does its there choice. nobody's stopping you to shoot yourself in the food.
example what bkk said, Erdorium going up because of tiering, 200% is good and prolly alot of people that tier are willing to pay for that, but what if the price went to 2k% how many you drop off that that point. is it still worth it then ?

i wont tier my songkra because i think 500% mu isnt worth it atm for this weapon. i know its not best example but someone else maybe thinks its fine to tier


everything goes fine until MA changes things around. then some people getting happy hording low value stuff getting higher and other mad because high value stuff going down.

 

[Entropia Dao]

Most interesting question is why markup goes up?

Are there less miners?
Are there more crafters?
Are resources capped?
Is it Tiering?

From what I experience mining is bad now, maybe worse then it has ever been. I'm even considering not doing the bonus mining daily anymore when I get it.

 

[Gopher]

Most interesting question is why markup goes up?

Are there less miners?
Are there more crafters?
Are resources capped?
Is it Tiering?

From what I experience mining is bad now, maybe worse then it has ever been. I'm even considering not doing the bonus mining daily anymore when I get it.

Why do you think mining is bad now? IMO its the best it has ever been

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

Mayhem time = miners going to mayhem = less mineral mined

+ weapons needed by recreational player that only play mayhems = increase in MU of minerals

As soon as Mayhem ends it goes back to normal. Same for some components that are needed for wepons.

 

[morey]

Why do you think mining is bad now? IMO its the best it has ever been

I casually mined a little before mayhem, was able to hit 130% mu average on around 300 ped cycle daily.
There are good spots, old well-known spots suck. HF exploring.

Some people complain about tt which seems to fluctuate wildly among different players. I personally had 94% recently. 93% long term..

 

[Gopher]

I casually mined a little before mayhem, was able to hit 130% mu average on around 300 ped cycle daily.
There are good spots, old well-known spots suck. HF exploring.

Some people complain about tt which seems to fluctuate wildly among different players. I personally had 94% recently. 93% long term..

yeah even in meh spots I could hit 105-110% average MU, ark desert still can give like 115% MU which is surprising

 

[kingofaces]

I casually mined a little before mayhem, was able to hit 130% mu average on around 300 ped cycle daily.
There are good spots, old well-known spots suck. HF exploring.

Some people complain about tt which seems to fluctuate wildly among different players. I personally had 94% recently. 93% long term..

I’ve mostly stayed out of this thread mostly because I’m reserving judgement until I’ve fully remapped Caly, but tentatively for what I have seen, I’ll second all of this.

The only thing I’m not sure if it yet is if I’ll be back around 99% TT or not, but I haven’t been don’t as much “normal” pointed amped mining since I’ve almost been solely map mining instead. Time will tell there, but I do get the feeling that mining really isn’t as bad as many say now. Locations and resource ratios have just changed for the most part, and many good old spots are now hovering around 100% MU. If someone just tries to repeat what they did before December or blindly chase pyrite without figuring average MU in that area, they’re not going to have a good time.

 

[Entropia Dao]

Why do you think mining is bad now? IMO its the best it has ever been

Well, until 6 years ago I was mining a lot and I got really good results. But I got bored and redrew some nice cash, but that's a different story.

Thing is, since I came back I have a horrible claimrate and some horrible returns. I don't mine a lot, but every time I do it sucks.
I know some places that used to give great tt return but only lyst and oil or other crap, and even those give me 85% return nowadays.

I could live with 85% if my skills where high enough to go after the rare ores, but I don't want to work my way up to it again. Too time consuming and boring.
Maybe I need to learn waves and stuff, but you know what. I only have time to have fun hunting and exploring. I've did mining in the past, got a couple of towers, got ruga and basically all ores that where on calypso. But I never hunted big mobs and that's why I returned.

All I know is if other miners have results like me, it's no surprise there is less mining. I had a couple 10+ NRF's in a row without any compensation. In the past after a lot of NRF's you get at least an ample (unamped). Now it seems that what you lost you lost.
Or maybe it takes a huge amount of drops, in which case I leave it to others.

I just want a good spot to get oil/lyst for my daily bonus. I couldn't care less about the rest anymore.

 

[Freddy_M]

It´s the Question: Are you a Miner? Than it´s good. But when you are a crafter, than it´s bad....... The win from the one, is the loss for the Other.......

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

It´s the Question: Are you a Miner? Than it´s good. But when you are a crafter, than it´s bad....... The win from the one, is the loss for the Other.......

Id say for crafter is indifferent. They price the items they craft according to the price of the minerals. Thats how it works. No one wins with low MU. At least on the players side...

 

[Legends]

Mayhem time = miners going to mayhem = less mineral mined

+ weapons needed by recreational player that only play mayhems = increase in MU of minerals

As soon as Mayhem ends it goes back to normal. Same for some components that are needed for wepons.

This is true for some things like for example Belkar and Garcen, but somehow, Pyrite did not come back down between Merry Mayhem and Easter Mayhem, it stayed up, actually went higher (from about 170% at the end of Merry Mayhem to around 190% before Easter Mayhem).

I think I know these cycles pretty well, been observing them for years, but I think this time, Antimagnetic Oil, Redulite and Light Liquid are in a new range now and will not be coming down much unless MA intervenes. Erdorium and Dianthus could also never come back down around the 140% range where it used to sit between Mayhems.

So that's what I'm talking about.

 

[Msturlese]

There are 2 directions of Ores and Enmatters :
1. to produce (L) hunting tools (generally speaking armatrix wep and amps, amors, plates, enhancers)
2. to produce (L) mining tool (finders, amps, enhancers)
in the case of miners, it is neutrally impacting, tehy gain more, pay more for amps and finders , F10x unamped miners get better returns
but in the specific situation of weapons, it is not good at all
weapons that are level 60+ (BLP)
or 50+ (laser) suffer too high markup to be sustainable in teh long term for hunters.

Armatrix formula make a bullet cost 7.5% for weapon 92.5% for ammo
that means that a 140% MU level 70+ weapon creates a bullet cost of 103%
that is equivalent to hunt in taxed lands.
that limits very much the use of Redulite based weapons to special events or monster where DPS is more important that sustainability
so in my humble opinon prices rising for ores and enmatter are bad for the game, because the hunters margin thins for competition
and oils are almost TT value

 

[Vadio]

Prices only get up , because if you minning regular you going know whats miners become...
And yes actual situation is bad bad for everyone

1 - Is bad to miner that even with stupid high mu fews items , they bare can hit break even
2 - its bad to hunt that not going buy overpriced wep
3 - Its snowball to crafters as well that not going produce/consume as much because people not buying
loop

I said several times
1 - Stop with this TT 90% Bullshit mindark revert changes to 2017...... no rares cap ..... no tt cap .... no fuck waves
2 - Rebalance this BP to use any universal Tier of Mineral
Like lysterium/cumbriz/iron/oil is Tier 1 i can trow any of that (not combine , just any value any of this) in refiner and or craft new comp called T1 Ingot (just damm example) and that use to craft anything else
why? so many useless ores/emt/comp out there you need scale down its make also more easy to balance

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

I was replying to the thread initial question, not specifc resources.

For those you mention:

-Pyrite - There is enough info about pyrite and the cause of its price around forum. It ranges from real demand to market manipulation. Redulite can be put in same category to some extent.
- Antimagnetic Oil and Light Liquid - Altough not the rarest form of resources to be found they are only found commonly on servers with below EV expectancy (fields of nexus/oil/growth and 1% liquid or antimag oil)
-Erdorium and Dianthus - Both places I had for secure to find those were moved. Now I find... oil and nexus where I used to find lyta, dianthus, typo and oil. Based on their rarity if one of the bigturnover miners finds a good field of it there should be enough supply since there is opportunity.

To Marco:

Thank you, I have been wondering what these averages would look like: that means that a 140% MU level 70+ weapon creates a bullet cost of 103%.

But I completely disagree with you that 103%MU on input is expensive. What would be cheap then? And what would be a mean average for the economy that is good for the players for you?

I understand where you are coming from, Hunting loot has always been the part that is most useless in game. And that is a part of the problem since day 1. I see hunting being treated as the fun activity in entropia, hence the one that pays the most to play. Not that I like it. I would prefer if players both hunters and miners could turn the highturnover fillers in loot into something better than TT food.

 

[Msturlese]

i come off working as a trader in derivatives. this make me think about the game in term of series of RNG and convergence to some value
MA say it converges to 98% and it is BAD because we don't cycle once but shot our ammo over and over.
a planet like calypso return 80% shraps, converted are 0.8 and some tt food lets say 99% in the best of the cases
this leads to small number in percentage points, but 1% SURE LOSS with no MU on 95% of items is really a mess.
cycling 200k per month (easy in hunting it is 200 USD loss (statistically)
then we craft some oils for conductors, breakeven is 105.25% and people sink them at 103% to recoup PED and eat shit
keeping the skills generated and some random BP.
all playerbase and all activities are at bare minimum survival point and the lack of "Fresh meat" makes the market pool very small.
a overhead of 3% becomes HUGE... 200.000 ped at 3% is 600 USD gaming cost per month... need to sell MU for 6.000 ped and that is a problem....sometime the looted material is worth 100.20....
so yes there are imbalances.
the real problem are EPcards..... those need to be fueled by huntloot and miningloot
and we have too many ores and too many enmatters, included le ludicrius cocktails of RT and Crystals of NI.

we need LESS materials as a post above points... so that craft can produce 108% weapons that command 1% extra cost... or 112% with 1.5% extra cost.
jsut my 2 pec...

 

[Katie Chalmers]

Lots of smart people in this thread. I don’t do mining except begrudgingly when a mission demands it, so I feel I have less insight into ore/enm fluctuations.
So can somebody explain to me the sharp increase in Medical Compress recently? Got a fap to tier up and not too excited too under current conditions. I don’t think it’s used much except to make a few run of the mill L faps, and of course fap tiering, but I think those would be fairly small markets.
Has the drop rate on this resource changed?
Have the locations changed and miners haven’t found it again yet?