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Is the game dying? if not why the continuous bad loots and constatnt changes to the game systems?

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Scott Talucia

Hatchling
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Posts
2
So it seems the game is dying. Everyone I talk to is continuously complaining of bad loot. Not just cycles of poor loot but overall bad loot. The game continues to force people into depositing on a continuous basis. But why?

If the game was doing well why would people complain all of the time. The globals and HOFS are definatly lower than what it use to be. Ammo get s sucked up at a unbeleivable rate. The mining on Ark seems to be so much better than on calypso. On Ark I can get a consistant run of V level finds on Calypso I barely get IV to V's. Crafting I cannot speak to.

Are we losing players? I think so
If we are losing players we are losing depositers. It would be nice if the game could go on without constant depositing but it doesn't seem to be possible.

It alsmost seems that MA is desperate to make money. Must be the reason for bad returns, bad loot, constant changes to how things work.

What do you think???
 
Returns are so bad for me that I have extremely lowered my deposits. Nothing else to do. Even after a hof or a string of globals, it is gone so quickly I can't justify putting in more money.

Plus, if I just continue to depo during bad loot periods (which is just about always), then I am just rewarding MA for giving me poor loot returns.
 
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1) if you haven't done, check entropiatracker. It gives the number of crafters, miners and hunters having atleast one global last month. If each player only globalled in on category; then 6076 players form the active playerbase. Active in the sense that they atleast cycled enough ped to get a 10ped foul young global.

Now, since most ppl hunt and do a little mining and crafting; 5k active players is more likely.

5000 people to fund all taxes for LA owners; to fund the planet partners; to payout CLD returns, to fund the servers and to pay all personnel involved in EU.
I can see the reason for bad loots atm. Maybe in winter more players will play and loot will go up? :confused:
But atm, the only thing you do when you deposit and play is paying base expenses.
 
Scott Talucia said:
So it seems the game is dying. Everyone I talk to is continuously complaining of bad loot. Not just cycles of poor loot but overall bad loot. The game continues to force people into depositing on a continuous basis. But why?
Click to expand...

No, game is not dying. Quite contrary it becomes better - it takes time but there is great progress.

ATM there seem to be some problem with low success rate in crafting.
Bjorn from MA said that thay are investigating that issue.

In my understanding, here it is what happens ATM:
As expected many crafted stopped/limited their crafting till this is addressed. Because of less people buy crafting materials, prices and sales of hunting/mining resources fell. This is followed by lesser activity of hunters and miners.
Because of that lowered activity, short term returns are lower than average.
 
You must be new here, game dying players quiting. Check forums posts every year about that same thing. Players come/they go/they come back

Isnt it summer time in States? People go outside (Holy crap outside :eyecrazy:)

Mining/crafting probably lower due to migration.

Entropia tracker records globals, it is possible to play on a lower budget (Unamped mining/hunt punys etc) and not get globals every month.

If loot bad for you log out, have a break try another day. If loot was that bad and enough people logged out something would change
 
To all new players, no the game isn't dying this is how it's always been ok? :)
 
I think you are whining :p

There I said it! The reason you always hear about the bad return is that no one is posting on the forum when they are doing good and most don't brag about it ingame either.
 
This game is changing a lot.

From personal experiences, it is at the most expensive time ever. Deposits last less and less every time, due to shoddy loot.

Its kinda a catch though, less people depositing due to crappy loot, then less loot there is.


Like I have always said, they need to sort out the loot system, helping to make deposits last longer, than before they introduce all this new crap.
 
Yes it is not dying. This is a constant thought/tread you will see. This RCE is unlike any other, which leads to a lot of uncertainty. They usually have Migration because that is generally a downtime for a lot of people - and they use that to boost some playing time.
I myself have gotten bad returns for a long time. It doesn't however seem any worse lately than before. The game in general continues to improve. I felt as you do - that I couldn't justify to continue to spend - so I took a break. I didn't think it was possible either! LOL.
 
Scott Talucia said:
Everyone I talk to is continuously complaining of bad loot.
Click to expand...

It's called adverse selection. People who have good loot are busy out there having more of it, so they don't have the time to talk to you.

Not saying overall loot is good/better/whatever, just that you can't draw any conclusions from a self-selected biased sample.
 
Haruto Rat said:
It's called adverse selection. People who have good loot are busy out there having more of it, so they don't have the time to talk to you.

Not saying overall loot is good/better/whatever, just that you can't draw any conclusions from a self-selected biased sample.
Click to expand...

It's called an overabundance of rationalization that leads to the above idea. I'd like to tell you that you will soon learn grasshoppa, but it will be much longer than soon.
 
Yes, i have the same feeling that game is dying, and MA as well.
Just have a look to Entropia Life, numbers say all. Tracker even changed the amount of globals on a weekly basis, i suppose the daily ones were just too depressing. Amounts are lower and lower and lower, day after day : hunting is now around 200k/day (used to be the double few years ago), mining is around 65k/day (versus 150k), crafting is the most impressive at around 100k when it was very often better than hunt.
So does return of Land deeds, lower each week..
So does the market..
So does the rythm of updates or correction of bugs.
So does the fun i have ...

My 2 pecs
 
MA has too much money to die completely we just recently gave them 6 mil USD and they recently sold monria the moon for another 150k usd i think it was.

you will see planets die and get repossessed or taken offline by MA long before the entire game dies.

just my thoughts
 
Been watching this thread wondering, do I, or don't I contribute. Sod it, I'll add some text in the kindest way possible.

I think players attitudes have changed, you simply lose interest to talk about it. If it really is mediocre out there, you just log out.

I think CLD investment was more to many players than buying an asset. I fundamentally believe a lot bought into it for their passion for the game and the promise of growth. I think many feel let down by that and now that CLD need paying for there is even more pressure on depositors....or at least the feeling there is more pressure on the "actual player" to try and succeed.

I've had some nice loots last few months, that helped me kill a few more mission mobs and tick over a little more. I gave it all back of course, but that's how it is and we are accustomed to that. You have a budget that you attempt to work with, and take a lot of downs and hope to bounce back on a decent hof.

Sometimes though the pendulum swings too far into the red for far too long, and that's when players get upset. Especially when you expect at least a decent run after a number of days that went horribly bad on mobs that eat peds at a rate of knots.

Now maybe before the recession, and before CLD, you might have chased it and pushed on. When it falls into 'take the piss' mode you might push it a bit more, then you end up logging off feeling bitter because you gave the game a chance to justify itself and it failed miserably.

So.... you enter a new week, log in... same MA game plan....so you simply logout before the game upsets you. For me I find the emotional drain harder than losing a lot of peds, so just have to get out.

I could go into the skills, and 10/10 hit ability and all the crap, and why it should work, what I could have done better.....why bother even trying to justify it.

The chances are MA got hit with a ton of withdrawals and they are trying to balance their books, so probably a temporary blip...that will hopefully correct itself.

Who knows?? I want to love the game, at times it is a struggle.

Rick
 
CLD- calypso land deeds are sucking profits from MA so guess who pays for it ? YOU ! Well that's one thought but it might just be MA,s way of saying fuck you! SUCKA give me your money!! :)
 
As long as players deposit.... the tax man will come...

Slowly, depositing players will depo less and less... that'll mean the withdrawing players will withdraw less and less. The game will start to hover around neutral buoyancy. MindArk will then hand out a blast of "high end" items in an event and HOPE it's enough to renew the passion of it's players.... AND... if enough players actually LOOT good items, then it probably will.... EU depositors have been suckered by false hopes since day one and continue to this day.... we are gambling addicts... keep paying with the hopes that some day we'll get that great item, or our luck will change... We all know it.... we all keep depo'ing.... we all keep whining...

The route to insanity I guess....

Menace
 
Ahhh the is it dying:silly2:
 
RickEngland said:
For me I find the emotional drain harder than losing a lot of peds, so just have to get out.

Rick
Click to expand...
This is also the worst part of the game uncertainty. If on a bad streak, you won't know how many deposits it'll take before things pick up again if at all or when will you go into bad loot mode.
 
I will stick my 2 peds worth in. I to have had an extremely bad loot run since the second week of the migration. I have sold most of my storage items and cut back my depoing to a minimum. I have purchase a few (UL) no sib weapons and curbed my hunting to some low/mid level mobs.

My original budget allowed me to play for free with the exception that I would have to pay for my new weapons. Any large globals would be invested in weapons / MF regen chips, I bought an xent x3 and ARS but have been forced to sell these to keep playing.

As I said my loot returns kept me playing and effectively I depo'd to purchase guns, all other expenses were covered by loot returns. My current loot return is about 65 % on ammo so this does not include armour / chip decay or weapons so in all return is probably as low as under 50% . At this ROI it is not possible to play on my original budget.

Unless things improve I will be finding a new game to play or sweating / swunting / hunting punies for the rest of my time in EU.

New content - damn I dont have the spare ped for any of this. I also think things need to improve to make it possible to play on a budget of $50 a month for a mid level player doing a few hours a day
 
Well, recession is hell's bells for some folks and a business opportunity for others. That's how it works. Wanna turn profit buy low sell high. Yes, always a risky business but that's the whole idea - no risk no reward.

I don't know what future brings, none of us does... but when u been in this game for a few years u start seeing balancing mechanisms that u didn't notice at first. This thing is a tiny model of RL economy, similar in so many ways. One tough little bastard of a game for sure. ;)
 
For me MA ruined the game by re-balance the loot. It seems that MA wants players to think they will always get around 90 % tt returns. It' BS. I got freaking 80 - 90 % before the rebalance on a regular basis.

But on the other side, MA did cap the global multiplier. Don't c the big hofs much ? I'm having hard time breaking 110 % returns. But before rebalance I could easily get 200 % or up to 500 % TT return.

And for people complaining about bad loot, well MA have to much passive income now, esp CLD. I know people have invested alot for pure gross income and never putting a dime into the game.

So when u depo 1000 $, 200 of those gets withdrawn next month thanks to certain CLD holders.

And when MA had to buy back CLD's with a loss. U can just imagen how many the avatar still had left, since the avatar had 0 obligation of selling those back to MA.

So for me CLD ruined the game. It's the worst passive income they introduced, since they never though "Hey, Won't 1 avatar be able to buy a ton of these CLD's so he can get quite the peds each week just to withdraw it"?

"Nah" thought MA, "no person will ever spend that much money on CLD's."
 
Guarana said:
So for me CLD ruined the game. It's the worst passive income they introduced, since they never though "Hey, Won't 1 avatar be able to buy a ton of these CLD's so he can get quite the peds each week just to withdraw it"?

"Nah" thought MA, "no person will ever spend that much money on CLD's."
Click to expand...


I am not sure what to think about the CLD's. Personally i know a few players who sold their UL stuff and bought quite a few CLD's for it, cause they got frustrated about the loot returns. Now they own a lot of CLD's, but don't play the game at all. So what is happening? They withdraw peds on a regular base, without contributing to the game itself by playing or participating. This way peds flow out of the game without any activity in game. It doesn't feel right to be honest. On the other hand this is how it (kinda) works with stockholders owing stock in a company (they don't really contribute to the company either), but EU needs an active playerbase....
 
The game does not die, everything is fine.
Referring to my records over the last 3 months, I see a positive balance.
Yes, there are fluctuating up and down, but as a rule they cancel each other out.
Any loss that you carry, usually caused by greed and the desire to climb to a higher level than you are supposed to, and the game takes money away from you, instead of giving.
I can not speak for everyone, this is my personal opinion, but it is the greed of players pushing them to bankruptcy.
My way - a way of moderation and patience.
Yes, the game has a problem, such as crafting, but no one bothers to leave the profession at a bad time and go hunting.
I can give an example (of greed) about me
Yesterday I killed some Eviscerators. They brought me a large sum of money to cover all losses this month.
Returning to Arkadia, I decided to go hunting with a friend on the bigger mobs (Kamaldon (its not my level)). So what? Was stripped of almost all of the money received this day. All this is because it is necessary to take my place, and not someone else's.
In most cases it still occur. Then you think that this happens with all players, based on data in EL
First, data is inaccurate. Some of the data is not saved, I checked.
Second, there are many factors that pop out from the field of view of EL
Loot like 30-40 PED (not a globals) or MU of items...
You can loot something with a value of 20 PED and sell it for 2000
And this is everywhere!
I agree that some people go out. But instead, there will be others.
The game does not die until MA do not want to.

For some reason, people who do not take into account, that the EU is dynamic, complain every year :)

Andy

PS My attitude to some elements of the game (like CLD) are not talking about respect for the game as a whole
 
No matter what anyone says the economy model of Entropia is fundamentally flawed and shares a lot in common with (forgive me for saying) a lot of triangle shaped "opportunities" out there - because unlike a traditional business Entropia doesn't generate any new wealth from the sale of products or services. All the money in the RCE is put there but people paying in and all the money people pull out of the game is 100% FULLY funded by the money that others have deposited. ZERO money comes out of the pockets of MA. The new depositing players fund the withdrawls of the old players.

What kills me is how people get all excited about the notion of a 90% return... Like seriously so many people are tickled pink by the idea that at best their ROI (unless they get really lucky) is going to average out to 90% of what they put in. I suppose if you consider that 10% loss the "cost" associated with the entertainment you got but that's kind of a weird way to look at it.


Guarana said:
So for me CLD ruined the game. It's the worst passive income they introduced, since they never though "Hey, Won't 1 avatar be able to buy a ton of these CLD's so he can get quite the peds each week just to withdraw it"?

"Nah" thought MA, "no person will ever spend that much money on CLD's."
Click to expand...

Well it's not so much the worry about 1 person but multiple people...

What have CLDs done? They've taken about $6 million that people WERE using to hunt, mine & craft completely out of the picture. Instead of people saying "Sure I'll go on a hunt I've got 6000 peds on the card" people are now saying "I have no peds it's all tied up in CLDs...".

Another way of looking at it is all the players that had big bank rolls and cycled lots of peds into the game have stopped. They've found a way to make a guaranteed profit on their money without having to personally take the risk/investments associated with hunting, mining or crafting. Let all the low level rubes take the risks and fight for only 90% ROI while they laugh all the way to the bank!

No wonder so many people are selling land areas these days... When you compare the ROI/investment to CLDs it's a no-brainer!

LA
300,000 invested in LA
??,??? invested in decent DNA
?,??? Monthly maintenance costs / costs associated with running events
...and even after all that they're lucky to see 80 - 120 peds a day. Not to mention they have zero flexibility to sell only a portion of their land if they need some quick money.
*Helps the game by forcing LA owners to get off their ass to get people using their areas so they can make money. Look at BIG industries... all their events are helping people stay active.

CLD
1,550 each
4.30/week earned based on a long track record
Ongoing equity build up - CLDs are already worth 50% more than they were listed at. Meaning if you bought when they were 1000 peds and held on for a year and sold at 1500 you'd be looking at like 172% ROI (including the weekly payments they received up to that point). How high are they gonna go? Well I can see them getting up to 2,200 considering that would still leave CLD's at an average ROI of about 10% which is a good investment by todays standards.
*Does not help the community at all. CLDs just mean cash in pocket for the holder based on the assumption that OTHER people will work on getting players to spend money to make weekly payouts bigger.

Anyways you see my point...

Bottom line Entropia needs some big changes if it's going to be sustainable for the next 10 years.
 
jambon said:
...about CLD...
Click to expand...

By my calculations, ROI for CLD as investment tool is only 8% (if you bought a big bulk of them (100))
CLD for MA is a way to raise additional funds, and I think this step is correct, although now idea of CLD has evolved into a whopping baseless speculation.
Race in this speculation and as a consequence a fall in prices on everything else that he has no positive income - is wrong. But it is the fault of players.
 
jambon said:
No matter what anyone says the economy model of Entropia is fundamentally flawed and shares a lot in common with (forgive me for saying) a lot of triangle shaped "opportunities" out there - because unlike a traditional business Entropia doesn't generate any new wealth from the sale of products or services.
Click to expand...

If this were true, as you state, Entropia would have been wiped off the map by now. But look how long it's been here. I think it's safe to say, especially now with new players coming in, that you're just blatantly stating opinions here and not facts. The whole pyramid scheme arguments have already been made years ago on this forum, and there's no need to reopen that debate when anyone can easily use the search function and read those past threads.

jambon said:
All the money in the RCE is put there but people paying in and all the money people pull out of the game is 100% FULLY funded by the money that others have deposited. ZERO money comes out of the pockets of MA. The new depositing players fund the withdrawls of the old players.
Click to expand...

You're confusing PEDs with a real currency. When you state: "All the money in the RCE...", you make it sound as if PEDs are a real form of currency, but it isn't. Only a small percentage of people are withdrawing from the game, and you fail to mention that those same people who are withdrawing are also people who could have been withdrawing less than their previous deposits over a given amount of time.

jambon said:
What kills me is how people get all excited about the notion of a 90% return... Like seriously so many people are tickled pink by the idea that at best their ROI (unless they get really lucky) is going to average out to 90% of what they put in. I suppose if you consider that 10% loss the "cost" associated with the entertainment you got but that's kind of a weird way to look at it.
Click to expand...

The door to leave is always open.

jambon said:
What have CLDs done? They've taken about $6 million that people WERE using to hunt, mine & craft completely out of the picture. Instead of people saying "Sure I'll go on a hunt I've got 6000 peds on the card" people are now saying "I have no peds it's all tied up in CLDs...".
Click to expand...

How do you know that the people who invesed in CLD's don't have even more money to hunt after they purchased their CLD'? It doesn't matter what that money was spent on -- it's $6 million dollars that MA now has in the bank. It doesn't matter if MA received that $6 million dollars from players engaging in crafting, mining, or from CLD sales.

jambon said:
Another way of looking at it is all the players that had big bank rolls and cycled lots of peds into the game have stopped. They've found a way to make a guaranteed profit on their money without having to personally take the risk/investments associated with hunting, mining or crafting. Let all the low level rubes take the risks and fight for only 90% ROI while they laugh all the way to the bank!
Click to expand...

Do you have any proof that this is actually occurring, or is this, once again, just your anecdotal opinion?

jambon said:
Bottom line Entropia needs some big changes if it's going to be sustainable for the next 10 years.
Click to expand...

I disagree.
 
The game is not in a good state, my reasons:

1- Bad loot: Unlike many players that just complain about returns, I always keep log of my returns. I know it has ups and downs. But my logs show that the returns are much lower than they used to be. Looks like a desperate act by MA to get some money.

2- Less players: I don't care what people say about Entropia Tracker. This is what i'm seeing. A year ago you couldn't even move in twin peaks because it was so crowded, now there is hardly anyone there. Not just twin peaks but other locations, other planets, I'm seeing alot less players.
 
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