Isolating the Economy

[Norway]

?

I kinda have a hard time to see where oz pissed you off here snable...And i dont see how he offended you but as i can see he said your a great guy

 

[Gewitter]

This is false. There is a spot.. our favorite "scammer" found it.

ok, ty
If spot is in AU, I know where it is...

 

[RickEngland]

The problem with MU is it has the potential to keep a player turning over peds and not depositing, and lets face it EU needs those lovely deposits to keep the game going and in development.

What tickles me is the move away from a perceived economy that 'may' benefit the player, to a downright deliberate obvious position that benefits the developer 100%.

Take shrapnel; once converted you're forced to use it as it cannot be tt'd. The choice to hunt with it or not has already been taken. In other words you've spent your hunting ammo, before you even take a shot. Although obviously there's a chance of return using that universal ammo.

The stroke of pure genius by far though, is the strongboxes. You can only deposit to buy them, you can not use in game peds. In an instant you are completely distanced from your in game avatars wealth (so even CLD holders with income are excluded) from purchase of boxes. In return for that direct profit to MA you get a chance to loot some unlimited rings, the only item with potential value, yet most of the return is universal ammo (again forced hunting, and already spent ammo before you pull out your gun).

What makes me LOL, is even though that is pure profit, the rings have been given names that the player base regards are valuable, "adjusted, imp mod etc". Yet the amount of rings is already (excuse pun) is starting to ring alarm bells. How many of these f***ing things are going to drop. Hold on a minute maybe adjusted ip and mod, is not too rare after all.

I think MA have moved back to an unlimited environment, first it's L, then a few unlimited items to max income, then a complete downpour of the unlimited to kill value already earned. Dangerous game really because anyone with a brain, is starting to wonder if it's worth chasing these items. Fear of big loses on purchases are starting to set-in.

Players will buy though, because MA at times will throw off the scent and just make a few of something. When that will happen and on which items, is all part of keeping the player guessing. The hamster wheel keeps turning, and MA's pets (you and me), will keep riding that wheel of fortune.

As a friend just mentioned to me in-game..."implied rarity"...funny stuff.

So back to the main point. Explo crafting is going nowhere, it's pure income from heavy weight gamblers, especially those that love the 20 ped a click variety. It excludes the whole economy. Perfect money maker.

Expect tons more of the same. This is my friends, is the new EU.

Rick

 

[whiteknut]

I want to add, Gold is rare ore, if not lootable PvP (and maybe Rock , dunno).
You cannot find Gold with high mining amps

Yes you can, just you need the right planet for it Thats all i can say about it .

 

[Rocket192]

I guess the only way to make it fair then is to have bigger TT guns and mining tools right??

Even bigger TT armor..

Imagine being able to go to the TT and buy everything you need to go hunt Prots
Or going to the TT to buy (L) amps and 500m+ finders straight from the tt...

This is exactly what crafting does with explosive bps doesn't it? so why not implement the same feature for hunters and miners? who needs an economy anyways?

 

[Gewitter]

Yes you can, just you need the right planet for it Thats all i can say about it .

Understood, just say (if you can, of course) which % is gold to all other ores, it seems to me, with 200% of MU it is not good choice...

 

[Crone]

...We need consumption by crafters, and it is extremely unfair and destructive that they can participate in their profession without any reliance on hunters and miners.

Crone can buy a looted or UL weapon, shoot shrapnel or ammo bought from the tt. Crone can do the same with mining, tt finder or a ul finder/extractor, probes can only be bought from the tt. It is only fair crafters get a tt blueprint too. The explosive projectiles are ok.

If explosive blueprints are changed to shrapnel, probes should be created from material residue and ammo from sweat. Or something like that. Also MindArk should add probe residue to the mining loot. This is afteral the same with hunting and crafting.

If you think crafters are the lucky ones, join them.

The price of lysterium is at 109%, which is still the main resource found on Eudoria (Calypso). Most of the animal oils don't even get to 102%. Mining should be nerved even more or hunting should be boosted. More ammo and shrapnel in the loot was an attempt to do just that, and it seems to work... a little bit. It's a good thing. In the good old days you would loot gold and silver, definately no mark up on that.

There are a lot of ways to make a profit in any profession. Search those.

More on the topic of the opening poster: The 3 tier economy... Crone doesn't see it. New players are very much involved in the mainstream. They interact with mentors, traders, auction and using exploits. Some of them are very inventive to make a couple bucks to support their hunting with very little effort. The high level players definately interact with the mainstream. Same way even auction, traders, being mentors and using exploits. The influence from both groups on the market is immense. Without newbies the tickets of scheduled warp flights would explode because of the price of sweat (welding wire), the absence of high end crafters would still influence the mining amplifier, guns and tools prices and the absence of the mainsstream would decrease everyone's profit.

So, no, Crone does not see this at all.

What Crone does see is that the main stream pays for everyone else, newer player weapons (not the rubio) and high level weapons have a markup of <110%, mainstream weapons are >120%.

But hey... someone has to pay, right? Just like any other economy. We dutch have a saying: het gras bij de buren is altijd groener. Which roughly means something like this: the neighbours are always doing better. But in a sarcastic way. You might think it, but it's probably not true.

 

[ZPF]

Crone can buy a looted or UL weapon, shoot shrapnel or ammo bought from the tt. Crone can do the same with mining, tt finder or a ul finder/extractor, probes can only be bought from the tt. It is only fair crafters get a tt blueprint too. The explosive projectiles are ok.

If explosive blueprints are changed to shrapnel, probes should be created from material residue and ammo from sweat. Or something like that. Also MindArk should add probe residue to the mining loot. This is afteral the same with hunting and crafting.

If you think crafters are the lucky ones, join them.

The price of lysterium is at 109%, which is still the main resource found on Eudoria (Calypso). Most of the animal oils don't even get to 102%. Mining should be nerved even more or hunting should be boosted.

No one is saying EP I II and III are a problem. It's EP IV that is ridiculously overtuned. Miners have to buy crafted amps to increase turnover. Hunters have to buy crafted/looted amps, enhancers, armor, etc. Crafters can buy one blueprint and TT materials and instantly have access to ATHs. You would have to be insane to call that a "balanced economy".

Lyst has been fluctuating around 105-108%. Muscle oil fluctuates around 105-106%. Miners consistently hit garbage like blau zinc iron melchi and oil which are all TT food. Even a ton of stuff found at high depth is TT food. Hit rates for high markup minerals have been nerfed to the ground.

Finder decay and excavator decay are not returned to us in loot. Current market makes it impossible for beginner miners to break even after MU without considerable luck in TT returns. Many miners have given up on planetside mining and just gamble on FOMA now.

EP IV and poor balancing decisions from Mindark have destabilized the synergy of the 3 core professions. Not saying the sky is falling but the economy has definitely gotten a lot less interesting.

 

[Rocket192]

No one is saying EP I II and III are a problem. It's EP IV that is ridiculously overtuned. Miners have to buy crafted amps to increase turnover. Hunters have to buy crafted/looted amps, enhancers, armor, etc. Crafters can buy one blueprint and TT materials and instantly have access to ATHs. You would have to be insane to call that a "balanced economy".

Lyst has been fluctuating around 105-108%. Muscle oil fluctuates around 105-106%. Miners consistently hit garbage like blau zinc iron melchi and oil which are all TT food. Even a ton of stuff found at high depth is TT food. Hit rates for high markup minerals have been nerfed to the ground.

Finder decay and excavator decay are not returned to us in loot. Current market makes it impossible for beginner miners to break even after MU without considerable luck in TT returns. Many miners have given up on planetside mining and just gamble on FOMA now.

EP IV and poor balancing decisions from Mindark have destabilized the synergy of the 3 core professions. Not saying the sky is falling but the economy has definitely gotten a lot less interesting.

This was my argument.... having tt weapons, armor, and tools is fine because you can only hunt really small mobs with them, or mine low-depth resources.

Explosive projectile bps would be fine too if IV didn't exist.... that's like putting a UL LC-30 and UL DSEC L30 in the TT... it's absurd.

 

[Crone]

You do realise that MU has always been dropping on most items/resources? It works like that for everything anywhere unless the resources are limited?

First of all, Crone would like to say you are free to be miner, hunter, crafter or a combination of two or all.

Crone doesn't really know what resources go in high level mining amps, but if the MU is high on the amps, so is the MU on those resources. They tend to go hand in hand. Explosive projectiles bp, global, hof or ATH, what do you get, does that have a MU? Crone honestly does not know, but would guess tt food.

With mining and hunting at least you have a chance on MU, even when you do not global or hof. Explosive Projectiles will not give you any MU, right? And as a miner you can do perfectly well without putting in MU. If you want to gamble buy an EP bblueprint if you think that's better. Everyone can do it, like you said. Don't feel excluded.

So the input is tt, the output is tt. What ever the explosive blueprints are doing is good for the game.

Also one could argue if MindArk is profitting from low MU.

 

[ZPF]

So the input is tt, the output is tt. What ever the explosive blueprints are doing is good for the game.

Also one could argue if MindArk is profitting from low MU.

By this logic, you should be very happy if MA replaces ALL mining and hunting loot with nanocubes and gives everyone instant easy access to large multipliers. Let the TT sell Terra Amp 10s, why not? MU is bad for Mindark therefore it is bad for the game right?

Why do we even need an economy at that point? Let's just make everything 90% TT returns, no MU to be found anywhere. Gambler's paradise.

I feel like that is what you're trying to say. I could be wrong.

 

[Rocket192]

By this logic, you should be very happy if MA replaces ALL mining and hunting loot with nanocubes and gives everyone instant easy access to large multipliers. Let the TT sell Terra Amp 10s, why not? MU is bad for Mindark therefore it is bad for the game right?

Why do we even need an economy at that point? Let's just make everything 90% TT returns, no MU to be found anywhere. Gambler's paradise.

I feel like that is what you're trying to say. I could be wrong.

That is what he is trying to say... at which point I'd rather just sell out and find a new winter hobby.

 

[speedydriver]

economy idea

I am aware of the Explosive BP and associated mission.

I am more concerned that I notice they went on an ad campaign from the other games I play I noticed and decided to give this a second try. I really do enjoy the game, however, I can tell this game scares people away and nerds such as myself and you as well typically shell up and think things such as "its not that hard."

But in fact for a new player without any knowledge of the game a deposit should go further than it does or has a possibility 2.

I am again figuring out things and I do not believe the issue is MORE LOOT ore EASY levels for crafting and somesuch nonsense. No sir the issue is much more hidden and seemingly benign.

I have noticed a large number of players are like "F MA" and don't let them get anymore of our money... but I LOL at that sir. This shouldn't be the issue at all.

The issue is the Auction house, and its associated fees.

TO be clear I do not purport taking away MA's ability to make fees in the Auction.. Nor do I think that allowing players to spam and congest servers with small amounts of items is going to help either.

I believe that the Auction house fees should be exponential just like everything else in the game. FOR EXAMPLE:

what many people tell me is there used to be spammed small amounts of items in the auction. I was not witness to such and can only imagine the annoyance.

there are a couple of idea I had is to create a fee that is calculated based on value of item; number of items of like kind are already in the auction; and MU.

where the number of similar items in the auction is very deterent to more being added. the MU fee is small yet exponential like everything else in the game <keeps ma happy> (i.e. attachments, enhancers, profession levels, claim sizes etc etc) and the value of item fee is small as well but linear well below .5 ped for the cost of the auction.

Currently auctions are limited for small stack sizes and this inflates markup for the Bankrolled highrollers
BUT WORSE is that new depositing players pay way too much for things they would like to buy either ignorantly or stupidily... and the population stagnates.

this goes back to why advertise for a population increase if the new players that deposit hit a wall of understanding in which they realize everything they want to do is going to require another deposit

the idea should be to grow population and increase lootpool exponentially

not draw in and send away.

currently demand for many things in game is broken because the bottom of the pyramid doesn't continue to grow

you can trade with player ya ya nerd shut up

new players need to be able to use the auction house effectively and I believe that a lower fee that grows exponentially based on markup price will keep things fluid if you make put a flat deterrant fee that grows based on item stack spam and possibly a small flat rate on item value.

additionally I think if this were to be done the Pec portion of the auction house functionality could be returned or turned on if it has never existed.

these are just my two pecs and I have another idea 2 but

1 item stack PRICE + .xx (flat Deterant) + MUfee(exponential fraction compound MU*.0c^1.0x example)+ value*.001

2 items same type PRICE + 2D*.xx + MUfee (no change) + (value*(.o1+.0deterantfee)) etc etc

the equations could be figured out to only every be like .6ped auction at most or whatever which isn't greatly different than now however small value stacks/items would be less inflated and top stacks could be slightly higher averaged out especially if individuals at the top don't post multiple large stacks at the top MU would be greater overall with less steepness

this means a new player could get away with selling their stacks for MUfee and value fee without deterant if they are careful yet the markup would still encourage buying larger volume

were as an arseHOle that wants to spam 3 cumbriz for 333% would stop after 1-2 stacks...

This should harden markups for all materials and create a line of best fit that makes markup less concentrated on small ass stacks at the bottom and greater across the board as well as making MU less volatile.

and grow entropia population

and make more of the less known professions more interesting

make materials more fluid

please lets keep the ridicule down as I havnt worked out hard numbers

but understand spamming Entropia ads on nerd frequented games does not induce population without high turnover unless you address the auction house..

I was a new player for a very long time and small pedcycle bankrolls need the auction house 2

 

[Avon(AJ)Jerrix]

Hey. OP here. This is going to be a long comment.

I'm happy to see all the comments, including some long ones, and on different sides of the issue. I tried not to let my own opinions show too much in the OP, since it was an analysis. So, for what it is worth, I'm more pleased than not with these developments, only assuming that it is actually an overall plan on MA's part rather than just unrelated decisions motivated by blind, shortsighted, greed. Up until a few weeks ago, I was convinced that if MA tried, they could not have found something more destructive to the game than the ep bp/nanocube change, especially IVuL. It would kill mark up, cripple the mining profession, stagnate the entire economy, and since MA does not make money directly from the sale of nanocubes but rather from decay, it would not even help revenue very much. They had to see that. So, why do it?

After thinking about it, I decided they were trying to isolate the big gamblers from the rest of the economy without driving them out of the game. They have been trying to even the economy out for awhile now...hunting in 2012, no more ATFs from young argos, and mining in 2013, no more unamped towers for first-day players. Normalizing loot returns was one key to making the economy more predictable (boring to some), and another was trying to eliminate wild fluctuations in mark up. Some people like the idea, some do not. I am encouraged that MA seems to be addressing two of what I consider to be the the three most important things they need right now...the economy, and new player recruitment and retention...clear eyed, long term, greed, trying to build a healthy company. I hope, though I am not optimistic, that they will pay as much attention to what I think is the third vital issue, the social aspects of the game. Then there are second tier issues, not as important as those core issues, but very important nevertheless, like the land area owners, space, skill progression, and some others.

In general, you are right. There are many nuances, but the overall picture
is as you described.

Of course you are correct, it is a very nuanced game, really...eco, shared loot, events, pets, compets, buffs, the webshop, SIB, bound items, empty shops, player owned housing, CLDs, PvP, PvP4, banks, universal ammo...the list goes on and on. But what I hope is that an accurate understanding of MA's overall plan will help players put those nuances into their proper place. Like all the recent skill buffs...where is that coming from? I think it might be an attempt to appease some players who are running up against the skills slowdown. Skill progression will never be linear again, but isn't a really high reload buff almost as good as unlocking commando...or even better really? Won't these buffs, and the coming changes to unlimited armor, and the new faps in the game, let players hunt the same higher mobs that increased skills would? So instead of working towards having the same skills Star does, the new goal is to hunt the same mobs he does. Why do I think this is what is happening here? Because if the analysis is correct, then there seems to be a pattern of MA trying to address player issues in indirect ways without breaking the mechanics. Big gamble-crafting affecting mark up too much? Give those players an incentive to take themselves apart from the rest of the economy. Players skilling too slowly past a certain point? Well, what are skills for? Give them other ways to get there.

Of course, the rings could have dropped from event mobs or something. Lockboxes...pure greed. Unless I'm missing a nuance.

My opinion. Remove nano cubes and change explosive bps to use shrapnel
instead

As you and others believe, this would reconnect the ep crafters to the mainstream economy, which I believe is what MA does not want. It is like lootable PvP space, it fulfills a function that MA thinks is vital, so I do not think either will change soon.

It is in danger of making EU as bland and boring as many other MMO's and tbh I am worried for the health of the game, and whether personally it will offer enough challenge and interest to sustain me.

To be fair, the other games started it. Most MMOs were subscription based in 2009 when Turbine switched DDO to free to play, making most of their money from webshop purchases, then followed with LOTRO a year later. The industry as a whole shifted (loosely) towards the EU model.

Yes I know I brought up User Bound items again.

Bound items are too large a subject to cover here, but in general I think this is another attempt by MA to allow some more powerful items into the game without allowing them into the larger economy, like the new refurbished S.I. H.E.A.R.T. I was surprised that the chip from Mission Galactica was not bound...or am I wrong?

How much fun is "mining for cobalt like it's ruga"? How much fun is looting shrapnel all day? How much fun is crafting ONLY amps, finders and explosive IV? How much fun is gambling for a goddamn melchi tower?!?! Not to mention the gameplay of PE/EU hasn't changed since its inception. It was the whole concept of "make your fortune", the excitement of a dynamic and ever-shifting economy that attracted the initial waves of new players. What's attracting them now? Compets? All this stability is terribly boring. In the long run my forecast is if the economy continues this flattening trend we will lose more players than we gain.

This used to be a community-driven economy, now it seems to be driven by gambling and whatever ridiculous new changes Mindark decides to implement for the sake of "stability". I'm not against stability, but this is just plain damn boring. Browsing the auction is depressing. Maybe it's just me.

Some people find it boring, but other people do find it fun, and it is the latter group that I think MA is marketing the game to now, players instead of gamblers. Put another way, I don't think they are trying to get people who want to be miners, I think they are trying to get people who want to play miners in a science fiction MMO, and they are adjusting the economy so that those people can play a reasonable amount of time before they go broke, and feel they got good entertainment value for money. While, again, allowing miners already in the game to continue mining, with adjustments.

What "many resources" have gone up in markup? Despite Gazz, Typo, and Magerian mist considering MA tampered with the distributions again and moved virtually all of the typo and gazz to Arkadia... Currently finding Gazz is similar to finding Kanerium. Roughly 5-8% of claims based on where you mine. Typo is no different... it used to be at a 28% distribution in shinook, now it's hovering around 9-10%. That is the reason markups went up.

Have you even tried to mine and sell things on the auction? People just are not buying resource, and those who do are traders with orders out who just end up relisting it and saturating the market even further. We need consumption by crafters, and it is extremely unfair and destructive that they can participate in their profession without any reliance on hunters and miners.

I won't try to argue mining with a miner. I will say that I think MA wants ores and enmats to have mark up, they just don't want too much volatility. There are crafters who don't like to gamble. There must be. If mark ups stay low across the board MA will probably rebalance, which will be easier without the big gamblers affecting things.

Take shrapnel; once converted you're forced to use it as it cannot be tt'd. The choice to hunt with it or not has already been taken. In other words you've spent your hunting ammo, before you even take a shot.

Don't convert it to UA.

I think MA have moved back to an unlimited environment, first it's L, then a few unlimited items to max income, then a complete downpour of the unlimited to kill value already earned.

It's possible, but I'm not sure what it would accomplish in this model, though. But as for the the rings specifically, if I am right, they would have to be widely available to counter the skill slowdown.

So back to the main point. Explo crafting is going nowhere, it's pure income from heavy weight gamblers, especially those that love the 20 ped a click variety. It excludes the whole economy. Perfect money maker.

MA was making revenue from the crafting anyway. If you assume an average of 20% mark up on mats that is now being spent on nanocubes instead, that would be a 20% increase in decay from these players. I don't think it could be much more than that, and I'm not sure MA would consider that worth cratering the entire mining profession. But I could be wrong.

Imagine being able to go to the TT and buy everything you need to go hunt Prots
Or going to the TT to buy (L) amps and 500m+ finders straight from the tt...

But crafters need to buy materials constantly. Hunters only occasionally need to buy armor, or even L guns and amps. But they do need to continually buy ammo...unless they loot enough of it. Yes, the big miners are constantly buying amps, but still not at the rate big crafters buy mats.

More on the topic of the opening poster: The 3 tier economy... Crone doesn't see it. New players are very much involved in the mainstream. They interact with mentors, traders, auction and using exploits. Some of them are very inventive to make a couple bucks to support their hunting with very little effort. The high level players definately interact with the mainstream. Same way even auction, traders, being mentors and using exploits. The influence from both groups on the market is immense. Without newbies the tickets of scheduled warp flights would explode because of the price of sweat (welding wire), the absence of high end crafters would still influence the mining amplifier, guns and tools prices and the absence of the mainsstream would decrease everyone's profit.

No, the new players aren't. They are part of the economy, of course, but they are very much out of the mainstream. Interacting with mentors is not being part of the mainstream economy, even if most new players had mentors. New players mostly hunt punies, which only drop shrapnel, ammo, Calypso Bone Samples, and occasionally puny weapons and B101s. They don't have anything to sell to traders except Calypso Bone Samples, fruit, and sweat. If they buy something from the auction, it is almost certainly the wrong thing to do...they have better options at this point. They are being deliberately protected from the economy at this early stage of their game life, protected within practical limits from players who would farm them for mentor gifts or sell them a Jester D1 or pay them 1 pec for combat tokens and then tell them it is part of the game and they should have done their homework. And hopefully they are gradually learning about the economy and how to take part in it properly.

They do provide sweat. They are largely isolated, not totally isolated. The exploits, I don't know what you mean.

High level explosive projectile crafters, as I said, as crafters have no impact on the mainstream economy. They craft with TT nanocubes and, well, alright, they produce and sell metal residue. They have as much impact as newbies who sell sweat. As players they may buy things, sell things, and so on, but as crafters they have no effect on the mainstream economy. High gambling hunters have more, and high gambling miners have the most, but still much less than before largely because of changes in the loot structure.

I was a new player for a very long time and small pedcycle bankrolls need the auction house 2

Other people have floated the idea of a newbie auction house for small transactions. I don't know how much trouble it would be to code, but I think it is a good idea.

Like I said, lots of good comments. I'm going to respond to Whiteknut separately.

 

[Spawn]

No, the new players aren't. They are part of the economy, of course, but they are very much out of the mainstream. Interacting with mentors is not being part of the mainstream economy, even if most new players had mentors. New players mostly hunt punies, which only drop shrapnel, ammo, Calypso Bone Samples, and occasionally puny weapons and B101s. They don't have anything to sell to traders except Calypso Bone Samples, fruit, and sweat. If they buy something from the auction, it is almost certainly the wrong thing to do...they have better options at this point. They are being deliberately protected from the economy at this early stage of their game life, protected within practical limits from players who would farm them for mentor gifts or sell them a Jester D1 or pay them 1 pec for combat tokens and then tell them it is part of the game and they should have done their homework. And hopefully they are gradually learning about the economy and how to take part in it properly.

Most new players I know are our disciples, which automatically become society members. In society hunts, we hunt whatever we can with whichever weapons we use.. Meaning the newbie player also hunts proteron or hogglo or araneatrox. Sure, they have to hunt solo too.. But these players have better choices than the trade terminal.. And as a society we teach our new members to skill and try obtain "society hunt" weaponry for example this is on our private forum as society hunt weapons:
---------------
Right now we mostly hunt with our own weaponry, or do tt-weapons. It could be possible to have ‘certain weapon’ hunts which are relatively new and not expensive to acquire.

Society hunt with:

1 Ozpyn lr s1x1 This is a nice eco weapon that’s slightly better than the old opalo or the new tt laser rifle. 9 dmg at 52 reload

5.3 damage per second cost tt+10 at the auction

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&name=Ozpyn_LR_S1X1

2 Ozpyn bp s1x1 This is a nice blp pistol good eco ul sib. 18 damage at 39 reload

8.1 damage per second. cost is tt+10 at the auction

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&name=Ozpyn_BP_S1X1

3 Labrys This is a nice 14 damage sword at 44 reload from ancient greece.

7.1 damage per second. cost is rising.. used to be tt+1 but now they are not available from the trade terminal anymore..

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&name=Labrys

4 bukin’s blade. everyone can have one. it’s a really easy mission. still this baby does 7 dmg at 78! reload

6.3 damage per second and available from Mr.Bukin quest at Camp Icarus. No longer tradeable. the trauma I amp almost fits and the eco is still similar to the old survival enblade-a (with amp)

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&name=Bukin's_Blade

5 xent tech light rifle x2 this weapon is really eco and not that expensive. 17 damage at 30 reload. its ampable with an a102

5.9 dmg/second available from auction at tt+45 . amped with a102 it goes up to 8.3 dmg/second at 2.957 eco

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&name=Xent_Tech_Light_Rifle_X2

6 xent tech light rifle x3 basicaly the same weapon but with a reload of 48.

9.5 dmg/second available from auction at tt+300 . amped with a102 it goes up to 13.3 dmg/sec at 2.957 eco

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&name=Xent_Tech_Light_Rifle_X3

7 philosopher’s sword. Yes you do need some skill to use this baby. But it’s totally worth it

28.5 dmg/second available from auction at tt+80, 2.915 eco With a large team you can hunt almost anything with these swords.

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&name=Philosopher's_Sword

8 first gen electric attack chip IV cheap mindforce weapon 39 dmg at 29 reload, good range (66 m)

13.1 dmg/second availabe from auction at tt+50

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&name=First_Gen_Electric_Attack_Chip_IV

9 khorum ice dagger. 31 dmg at 59! reload nice and eco shortblade that requires some skills to master, but can be amped with melee amp I for an extra 4 dmg (23.9 dmg./sec)

21.2 dmg/second available from auction at tt+350

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&name=Khorum_Ice_Dagger
----------------------------

So it's all a matter of which new player you are and which people you hang with.. your story of who a new player is, is not the new players that I know.

 

[Korin Dante MDe]

There are hundred of uber avatars selling rare crafted items and resources to each other and then selling among friends at very low prices compared to Actual Markup.... For stopping this all some measures must be taken....

The rare items we see on auction is crafted with BP's held by few people, another reason for MA having almost non cash flow as all profit is taken by these under-market crafters...

 

[Norbert]

There are hundred of uber avatars selling rare crafted items and resources to each other and then selling among friends at very low prices compared to Actual Markup.... For stopping this all some measures must be taken....

The rare items we see on auction is crafted with BP's held by few people, another reason for MA having almost non cash flow as all profit is taken by these under-market crafters...

"There are hundred of uber avatars selling rare crafted items and resources to each other and then selling among friends at very low prices compared to Actual Markup.... For stopping this all some measures must be taken.... "

If people want to sell stuff to each other below mark up, nothing MA can do about that except maybe ban ava to ava trading . To be honest i don't see how this is a concern, and usually is a two sided thing "i'll craft you amps at mates prices, if you craft me guns on same basis".


The rare items we see on auction is crafted with BP's held by few people, another reason for MA having almost non cash flow as all profit is taken by these under-market crafters...

I do think Ma should stop "monopoly bp's", sure some should be rare and hard to get but for years there were a few 1 person super profit bp's. I am fairly sure though i have seen limited click bp's for pre-monopoly bp's though, so that is a good move imo.

 

[Korin Dante MDe]

"There are hundred of uber avatars selling rare crafted items and resources to each other and then selling among friends at very low prices compared to Actual Markup.... For stopping this all some measures must be taken.... "

If people want to sell stuff to each other below mark up, nothing MA can do about that except maybe ban ava to ava trading . To be honest i don't see how this is a concern, and usually is a two sided thing "i'll craft you amps at mates prices, if you craft me guns on same basis".


The rare items we see on auction is crafted with BP's held by few people, another reason for MA having almost non cash flow as all profit is taken by these under-market crafters...

I do think Ma should stop "monopoly bp's", sure some should be rare and hard to get but for years there were a few 1 person super profit bp's. I am fairly sure though i have seen limited click bp's for pre-monopoly bp's though, so that is a good move imo.

If MA don't take measure to stop this under-market practices then they will never be in profit.... Hopes MA is reading this Article...

 

[Avon(AJ)Jerrix]

Hey. Thanks for the detailed comment.

Ty for the long post, i ll give my best to reply in same manner.

First paragraph: you say many of big gambling crafters transistioned to explosive bps, i find this
to be correct BUT you are forgetting that also gambling miners and hunters have turned to crafting
EXP bps (if you look players crafting EXP bps , you will see that many of them never crafted before
these bps arrived). This bp gave chance to gamblers of all professions to cycle their peds faster
without paying third party avatars any kind of markup. You say they dont impact MA economy at all,
i have to disagee with this also, MA is believed to get % of what we spend in this game, so the
more EXP bps are being clicked the more money falls into their pockets and the more they can
reinvest in this game (advertising etc).

Yes, that's something that I missed, but it makes sense, and goes right along with this economic
plan by MA, if it is a plan. If you look back at the posts after mining returns were flattened
(especially the petitions), the one thing that the high level miners complained about over and over
was that mining was now boring, that there was no thrill, no rush without a chance of hitting The
Big One. Some said that they could get a positive return after the change, but it was like work,
not fun. So MA is appeasing players who want the Thrill Factor back in the game, making it easier
than ever with EP4 and nanocubes. They get their thrill, they contribute in the form of activity
and decay, but they form their own sector of the overall economy and I still argue that--"without
paying third party avatars any kind of markup"--and not producing anything but MR and some BPs, they
are isolated from having any effect on the mainstream sector. Again, from the TT to the TT.

Second paragraph:
More shrapnel in loot, made the oil prices go up. The fact that oils are found on all maturity
levels is unlikely to be connected to either shrapnel introduction or EP bps.

[h=3]Developer Notes #9 - Version Update 15.0 Preview[/h]

...

Shrapnel, a new stackable resource, will be introduced to hunting loot in VU 15.0. All creatures on
all planets will drop this new resource as a symbolic representation of salvaged battle debris,
regardless of the type of weapon(s) used to defeat the creature. Shrapnel will replace a portion of
the total loot value formerly dropped in the form of ammo, animal oils, tier components, paint
cans, etc.

Shrapnel is not used as a crafting component; instead, Shrapnel can be can converted to Universal
Ammo at a ratio of 100:101, or sold to the Trade Terminal at face value.

[h=4]Looted Stackables[/h]
The first phase of an effort to improve the distribution of looted stackable resources will be
implemented in VU 15.0, starting with a majority of Planet Calypso creatures. Veteran participants
will recall how several years ago most types of looted stackables could only be looted from
particular creatures.
The benefit of returning to that method of distribution is a reduction in the number of different
items looted in a particular hunting session, as well as more a more interesting hunting experience
that allows hunters to leverage wisdom gained from previous hunts. Loots for creatures on other
planets will be adjusted in the upcoming partner releases after 15.0.

Third paragraph: Since introduction of EXP bps, many ores and enmatters
have gone up in prices, because less ppl mine and the demand for these ores is higher than the
supply. This kind of situation is very good for anyone trying to make profit on mining, it is bad
for those who loved to cycle peds in mining without much thinking. ATM it is possible to profit
from mining just like before the Update (that is if you only mine for specific ores that are in
high demand). On certain areas it even pays off to use those high level amps (tip look at
entropialife.com gold stone recent globals, MOST of them are mined with big amps, because the GOLD
markup makes it all worth it).

Some commenters have already replied to this. I can't say who is correct, but I think that what
you say is what MA wanted. Or possibly Planet Calypso...I suppose I shouldn't keep conflating the
two.

Fourth paragraph: response to first paragraph is about it, surely they
dont make ore prices boom, but they make this game boom. Also you say we have 3 tiered economy, i´d
say we have atleast 5 tiered economy: gamblers who pay the MA s salary; regular Joes who play the
game for fun and hope for some big hof, without much thinking; newbies who are not sure yet if this
is the game they want to play; traders who use the situation for their advantage; and lastly smart
players who play for profits (there are these kind of players in all categories) it is possible to
profit atm in hunting/crafting/mining with just some dedication and observation skills.

I think we have all those different players, but the "regular Joes", "traders", and "smart players"
all play in the mainstream economic sector...they all rub up against each other.

Fifth paragraph: i agree 100% it is very easy for new players to start
atm.

Sixth paragraph: cant agree, i havent seen any other game yet, where newb comes to me and asks "Can
i really make a living with this game" and i dont have to lie to them, i can be honest by telling
"Yes". Newbie experience is mostly payed by MA, where this money comes from these 5 player
categories? I am betting on gamblers. Newbies are not divorced from mainstream at all (not more
than they were in the past anyways), hell i cant imagine being able to be on the same team with 20
uber level players in old days, but these days in shared loot events it is all possible, and seeing
those rare "Damn that level 2 noob looted 200ped ESI" shows that they are participating in real
game already.

I stand by my analysis. As a group, new players don't buy from other players in any significant
amount, nor sell to them, except for sweat. They contribute to the economy, of course, but in
their own little sector. As long as they hunt punies, they don't loot oils, they don't loot hides,
they don't loot components, or extractors, or paints, or wool, or hair gel, or short firn boards.
As far as mats go, they loot shrapnel, Calypso Bone Samples, and novas. It is when they graduate
from the Gauntlet and move on from Camp Icarus and puny mobs that they start to loot different
things, and start figuring out what they can sell and what to buy to play better.

Level 2 noobs looting 200 ped ESIs from shared loot happens, but it is as statistically significant
as a second day noob hitting a tower with a rookie finder.

Conclusion: Yes the economy is more stable, but i dont think the
professions are so largely isolated, it is those ppl who dont like to think, that love to separate
themselves from the economy. Why would regular Joe who doesnt think be much better than Gambling
EXP bp clicker? We are all the same, if we want we have fun/gamble, if we want we make profit and
if we want we whine. There are no barriers between users except those that user creates
himself/herself.

I think MA (there I go again) wants the professions to be more interconnected, they just want the
bigger gamblers isolated, so they gave them their own corner of the playground to gamble in, and
made it easy for them to stay there.

 

[OZtwo]

So MA is appeasing players who want the Thrill Factor back in the game, making it easier
than ever with EP4 and nanocubes. They get their thrill, they contribute in the form of activity
and decay, but they form their own sector of the overall economy and I still argue that--"without
paying third party avatars any kind of markup"--and not producing anything but MR and some BPs, they
are isolated from having any effect on the mainstream sector. Again, from the TT to the TT.

The only issue I have here with MA doing this is that with this change they have made MA a true casino and at some point have to change to a casino based game with the rules of an online casino -- I would think?

Yes I thought the same about lootable PVP in a RCE base game with nothing happening to MA yet..but still how far can MA go before they do have to be regulated?

 

[ZPF]

Surprised no one has bought up the crash in residue prices yet. Personally I don't know much about crafting but I do miss the days when I would see crafting globals on dozens of different items every day and not just EP IV and Mining Amps...

You say it's isolated from the rest of the game but you can't ignore that it's only worsened the already sorry state of crafting.

 

[moise]

could'nt resist...

 

[ZPF]

could'nt resist...

The WoW version was way better, but +rep anyway this was pretty good

 

[moise]

lovin mc cormick vids

link WOW's one please or just pm cause off topic
edit : got it, but sure i prefer EU's one