Question: Loot "tiers" for certain mobs?

[Mekoides]

I’ve been spending a lot of time hunting Sabakuma in recent months – mostly Old-Dom with a few Alpha and Old Alpha mixed in. I’ve noticed that there are some things that only drop from higher maturity (Alpha+) Sabakumas. Specifically, Surface Hardener Components, Eye Oil, Socket II Components, and specific extractors.

Has anyone noticed this with other mobs? Are there actual items, rather than just stackables that will only drop from high maturity versions of mobs? Is the cutoff always at Alpha (or whatever the equivalent is on mobs with different maturity scales)? Are there only two "tiers" of each mob, or do some have 3 or more? Should the different "tiers" be treated as entirely different creatures with different drop potentials?

I haven’t noticed the higher Alpha+ tier dropping less of anything that the lower tier drops – they just seem to have more of a variety of stackables to choose from. Has anything like this been discussed before?

 

[JohnCapital]

I’ve been spending a lot of time hunting Sabakuma in recent months

From what I hear, that's an understatement.

--on topic--
And yes, the specific stackables and even the loot ratio seem to be affected by not just the maturity, but by the overall dmg/sec, or possibly the closely related cost/kill.

It may be easiest to consider the cost/kill vs a mob, because that would take into account maturities (different health) as well as the equipment used.

So when you hit the alpha maturity with your weapon, (Opalo SGA, right?) you get kicked into a different "looting pattern", it seems.

Try this, if you can: Do the same hunts using an Opalo SGA +A101 vs an Opalo SGA without amp, and see if you can tell any difference there too.

 

[Sativex]

That's a good question, In the 3 months I have been playing and reading EF I have yet to see it asked.

The line between the maturities and their loots would be great info for all, but also a big job for the person gathering the data. Imagine all the mobs that would have to be killed to get something close to accurate.

 

[remontoire]

I’ve been spending a lot of time hunting Sabakuma in recent months – mostly Old-Dom with a few Alpha and Old Alpha mixed in. I’ve noticed that there are some things that only drop from higher maturity (Alpha+) Sabakumas. Specifically, Surface Hardener Components, Eye Oil, Socket II Components, and specific extractors.

Has anyone noticed this with other mobs? Are there actual items, rather than just stackables that will only drop from high maturity versions of mobs? Is the cutoff always at Alpha (or whatever the equivalent is on mobs with different maturity scales)? Are there only two "tiers" of each mob, or do some have 3 or more? Should the different "tiers" be treated as entirely different creatures with different drop potentials?

I haven’t noticed the higher Alpha+ tier dropping less of anything that the lower tier drops – they just seem to have more of a variety of stackables to choose from. Has anything like this been discussed before?

Umm, yes? All of the mobs have items that drop from a certain level upwards, in fact I'm fairly sure that the tiers you talk about are actually per maturity differences, that is, something new becomes lootable at each step. Occasionally this is a very rare item so it will take time until you see it.

Also, there are things that appear to be lootable only when you get loot above a treshold, even if the item(s) don't make up the majority of the loot value.

 

[JohnCapital]

That's a good question, In the 3 months I have been playing and reading EF I have yet to see it asked.

The line between the maturities and there loots would be great info for all, but also a big job for the person gathering the data. Imagine all the mobs that would have to be killed to get something close to accurate.

And yeah, this issue has been discussed before, but with the unknown looting factors it's been hard to document/track well.

But like me, in the case of molisk for example, using the same gun on mature vs raider, I get more thyroid from the raider, and more muscle oil from the mature.

 

[Legion]

i do belive all loot is possible to get from one type of mob, the chance to loot them is what changes though. So hunting a young might almost be impossible to loot item x from but there is still the chance to do it, while hunting an alpha it will drop a lot more often.

 

[Mekoides]

Well, I'm glad that it's actually a phenomenon and not me just being crazy. I was a bit confused because entropedia, which I've found to be fairly comprehensive, treats mobs as though any maturity can drop anything that the mob has the potential of dropping. I'd love to accumulate some hard data on this - does anyone know of a tool that can auto-record something so granular as the maturity of a mob and items looted from it?

 

[Legion]

Well, I'm glad that it's actually a phenomenon and not me just being crazy. I was a bit confused because entropedia, which I've found to be fairly comprehensive, treats mobs as though any maturity can drop anything that the mob has the potential of dropping. I'd love to accumulate some hard data on this - does anyone know of a tool that can auto-record something so granular as the maturity of a mob and items looted from it?

eu hunter is more or less doing this thing and send the info to entropedia, however if they count maturities i dunno.

 

[JohnCapital]

I was a bit confused because entropedia, which I've found to be fairly comprehensive, treats mobs as though any maturity can drop anything that the mob has the potential of dropping.

Well, technically, that is the case. Vigi helmets have dropped from exa youngs. And other examples too. Any item is available that mob seems available at every maturity. However, it does seem that higher maturities can drop items more.

But you aren't talking about just items, you're also mentioning stackables, and yes, there's much evidence that they are maturity-related in how much of each item drops.

 

[remontoire]

Well, I'm glad that it's actually a phenomenon and not me just being crazy. I was a bit confused because entropedia, which I've found to be fairly comprehensive, treats mobs as though any maturity can drop anything that the mob has the potential of dropping. I'd love to accumulate some hard data on this - does anyone know of a tool that can auto-record something so granular as the maturity of a mob and items looted from it?

This is one aspect of entropedia that can do with improvement. When you go to edit / add a loot there is a field called "from maturity", but it is not shown in the table in the mobs entry. So you will have to click on the individual loots to see if these match your records on looting and you can update there.

 

[Oleg]

Yes, different maturities drop different stuff.

The most obvious examples are with animal oils. If you hunt Atrox for example it's quite easy to see that you get different types of oil from different maturities.

I've found it's quite noticeable with Socket Components on some mobs too, for example I think Furor drop VI from Adept, VII from Worker and VIII from Gatherer. I haven't tested this fully but I think that's correct.

Non-stackable items are a bit harder to judge because of the relative rarity, but even there it's very clear that for example Daikiba Stalker drop a lot more Pixie Shins than Daikiba Young - not surprising in that case, because of the difference in the typical loot values from the mobs.

 

[Mekoides]

This is one aspect of entropedia that can do with improvement. When you go to edit / add a loot there is a field called "from maturity", but it is not shown in the table in the mobs entry. So you will have to click on the individual loots to see if these match your records on looting and you can update there.

Ahh, thanks for that. Stupid hidden columns. I'll start updating when I figure out how to track this stuff reliably.

 

[Ardorj]

Yes, different maturities drop different stuff.

The most obvious examples are with animal oils. If you hunt Atrox for example it's quite easy to see that you get different types of oil from different maturities.

I've found it's quite noticeable with Socket Components on some mobs too, for example I think Furor drop VI from Adept, VII from Worker and VIII from Gatherer. I haven't tested this fully but I think that's correct.

Non-stackable items are a bit harder to judge because of the relative rarity, but even there it's very clear that for example Daikiba Stalker drop a lot more Pixie Shins than Daikiba Young - not surprising in that case, because of the difference in the typical loot values from the mobs.

Agree on most parts.
Just like to ask : you mean Daikiba Stalkers drop more pixie per mob killed or per PED spend?

I do not believe they drop more per PED spend. I think it's more a case of an individual lootpool that is increased by how much PEDs you spend hunting a mob. By hunting Stalkers, your lootpool is filled quicker and thus you get paid more often in Pixie Shins.
But then, this could be a total different topic, sorry.

 

[Legion]

Yes, different maturities drop different stuff.

The most obvious examples are with animal oils. If you hunt Atrox for example it's quite easy to see that you get different types of oil from different maturities.

I've found it's quite noticeable with Socket Components on some mobs too, for example I think Furor drop VI from Adept, VII from Worker and VIII from Gatherer. I haven't tested this fully but I think that's correct.

Non-stackable items are a bit harder to judge because of the relative rarity, but even there it's very clear that for example Daikiba Stalker drop a lot more Pixie Shins than Daikiba Young - not surprising in that case, because of the difference in the typical loot values from the mobs.

a good example is maffoids. big ones cb5's all the damn time vs smaller ones u get them a lot less often.

 

[Atraie]

I dont think it has anything to do with maturity, at least strictly speaking. Its a consequence, not a direct result of a maturity table with lower drop rates for different maturities.

What matters is hp of the mob, the cost to kill.

If a critter's average loot is 10 pec, for a young, 20 pec for an mature, 30 pec for an old. And its loot table contains a 20 pec item. Its goign to be quite rare from the young, uncommon or rare from the mature, and uncommon from the old.

To get the 20 pec item on the young, you need an uncommon loot size which is only about 4% chance. With the old it could drop in any loot, thats 25 times more common.

------------------

Now i dont know for sure if it works this way, but it makes sense. Im not saying they dont have tables for each creature with different percentages for each maturity, they could. But i think its far more likely its just a side effect of the different costs to kill and the different average loot sizes per maturity because of it.

Althought i have always wondered which of the 2 is true. Just never tested it myself. Mainly because i lack the gear to hunt the large maturities on most things to test it!

 

[Chan]

hmm, iono about the certain answer but here is what I've seen after hunting allo low maturities for years

In the past, around 2 years or so ago
For allo young - provider
it was quite possible to loot 50 pec oils (pancreas??) and the 1 ped oils (forgot name) occasionally... usually around 10-20 ped worth in a 500 ped run

since a year or so ago this has changed
it is close to impossible to to get the 50 pec oil (maybe from provider, but young-old I can not loot them at all... over many many runs) the 1 ped oils I have yet to see at all from allo for a very long time

What this can mean, in the past, the variable (which we don't know) that depicts the probability of a certain item dropping (in this case, oil) was higher (easier) to attain than currently, at least for oils for allos
What this may also mean, items lootable from youngs in the past may very well be harder to loot now, of course, this depends on whether MA has a global item loot difficulty bar or mob/item specific and if this only applies to oil or to items as well

or I did not test thoroughly (can't get more thorough than a few years of hunting the same damn thing in the same spot)

 

[Mekoides]

I dont think it has anything to do with maturity, at least strictly speaking. Its a consequence, not a direct result of a maturity table with lower drop rates for different maturities.

What matters is hp of the mob, the cost to kill.

If a critter's average loot is 10 pec, for a young, 20 pec for an mature, 30 pec for an old. And its loot table contains a 20 pec item. Its goign to be quite rare from the young, uncommon or rare from the mature, and uncommon from the old.

To get the 20 pec item on the young, you need an uncommon loot size which is only about 4% chance. With the old it could drop in any loot, thats 25 times more common.

I 100% understand what you're saying, but I'm not talking about the difference in loot between a young and an alpha. I'm talking about the difference between a dominant and an alpha, which with sabakuma, is not that much. Doms cost about 35 pecs to kill, Alphas about 42 (opalo SGA+a101, no armor). I've killed literally thousands of doms and have had exactly zero drops of these stackable things, value of 1pec to 20pec. Alphas, which are super rare in the area I hunt (1 or 2 per 2-hour hunt if I'm lucky) drop them all the time, which is why I suspect there is a hard cutoff where certain things simply cannot be looted from certain lower maturities.

 

[Oleg]

Agree on most parts.
Just like to ask : you mean Daikiba Stalkers drop more pixie per mob killed or per PED spend?

I do not believe they drop more per PED spend. I think it's more a case of an individual lootpool that is increased by how much PEDs you spend hunting a mob. By hunting Stalkers, your lootpool is filled quicker and thus you get paid more often in Pixie Shins.
But then, this could be a total different topic, sorry.

In that example I meant per mob killed - so what I mean is that if you kill one Daikiba Stalker you are much more likely to get pixie shins than if you kill one Daikiba Young.

Per PED spent, I'm not sure, it's probably roughly the same I guess. For the other examples I gave that's definitely not the case. With my setup I can kill Atrox Young all day long and I won't ever loot Pancreas Oil. Possibly someone using a weapon with much lower damage per second would - that's one of the factors I'm still unclear about and is perhaps more what the OP is asking. I'd be inclined to think that in that example the dps is irrelevant, and that it's just not possible to get Pancreas Oil from an Atrox Young with any weapon.

a good example is maffoids. big ones cb5's all the damn time vs smaller ones u get them a lot less often.

Yes, another good example. For the common, low TT, non-stackable items in general I've found the difference between the lowest maturities and highest maturities is almost always quite clear (per mob killed, as I said above).

 

[Karmic]

Yeah the common loot changes quite obviously on different maturites, it's harder to tell for items that don't loot as often anyway. The difficulty in tracking it is that it often changes with a new VU. I've noticed several recent changes with Tier, Socket, and enhancer component drops, but in the past some mobs would change from dropping eye oil to muscle oil ettc.

 

[Immortal]

This is a very commonly known and highly documented feature of hunting in Entropia.