MankiniGate

Kaiser

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This is ridiculous. Part of the reason i play EU is to get away from real world BS. Really? We have to start complaining about equality in a video game? When is the social justice warrior profession being implemented?

Who gives a crap about this really? People are just pissed because they paid and can't use them everywhere.

I feel like it is just another thing for people to complain about that really doesn't matter. When we have things that effect actual game play like lag, why choose this as your battle? You really want this worked on instead of lag fix?
 

Xavier Target

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people can do whatever they want, of course, but how I play the game is changed by the advent of almost naked avatars... I don't care what passes by in the distance, but I find myself avoiding the situation where one of these is going to be on my screen to close for any length of time like when you are interacting with auction, deciding where to go at the TP, or sweating mobs with others....if one of these avatars is there , I move on to somewhere else or just log off so I don't have to worry about my family members seeing the screen and thinking the game I am playing is something other than a shoot'em up. MA and the players can do what they want, but the side effects of changing the nature of the game may not be desirable to MA's bottom line(Heh, see what I did there....)
 

Alainax

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I feel like it is just another thing for people to complain about that really doesn't matter. When we have things that effect actual game play like lag, why choose this as your battle? You really want this worked on instead of lag fix?
Almost seems crazy then that they went to the effort to limit it ;) time could have been spent on more pressing matters!
 

Kaiser

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people can do whatever they want, of course, but how I play the game is changed by the advent of almost naked avatars... I don't care what passes by in the distance, but I find myself avoiding the situation where one of these is going to be on my screen to close for any length of time like when you are interacting with auction, deciding where to go at the TP, or sweating mobs with others....if one of these avatars is there , I move on to somewhere else or just log off so I don't have to worry about my family members seeing the screen and thinking the game I am playing is something other than a shoot'em up. MA and the players can do what they want, but the side effects of changing the nature of the game may not be desirable to MA's bottom line(Heh, see what I did there....)
Seems to me the easiest solution for you would be to tell them, it is a virtual universe and just like in real life, people act, dress, and behave in strange ways. I mean, if they live on earth they likely know this already, even kids.

I think it is awesome though that you chose to find a solution that works for you without expecting others to carpet the world. :yay:
 

mastermesh

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People are just pissed because they paid and can't use them everywhere.
Damn right they are... Mindark is always saying it doesn't change stats or item uses after people buy the stuff, but they do it ALL THE DAMN TIME. Nerfs happen, but other changes too...

This is just one example.

I know, I know, I'm harping on the pet things but it really pissed me off quite mightily when Monria made the change that caused all Monria pets below level 7 to not be 'exportable' when they were originally able to be exported at level 1... You cannot even feed a pet unless it is spawnable...

Prior to this entire new fiasco hub items were about only items that couldn't be used elsewhere... Some planets started changing rules on different items, etc. Not sure there's an extensive list anywhere of what items are restricted in some way, but it's a growing list... and yes, it is annoying as hell when you pay good ped for an item only to find it's not able to be used somewhere.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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I'm stunned by the simple fact that this conversation exists... :eyecrazy:

I mean, seriously, guys... seriously ? :confused:

Talking about those few clothe shaped pixels, leads you to debate about gender equality.
And for some stupid idiots, to make even racist comments, etc...

By the way, absolutely everything that is said about it, namely the "why" this thing was later limited to the Next Island planet, are only allegations.

In my opinion, it's simpler than you might think...
From the beginning, it was planned that this item was bound to NI. (you know.. palm trees, beach, bikini... you connect the dots?)
MA made some mistakes in the VU (who's surprised about this :D), and fixed it a few days later...

End of story,
but please continue, it's fascinating on a sociological level.. :rolleyes:
 
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Imo considering that the game allows players of 13year and up, there should have been a kid save mode developed for the game the moment someone made bodystockings and the likes.
Just have the game start up in family/kid safe mode and if someone wants to switch to 18+ - mode they can identify with their creditcard - might get more people to identify their accounts ;)
Such a safe mode would essentially make all items that are flagged as 'under 18' / 'NSFW' (not safe for work) / etc. invisible and replace an empty slot with a standard clothing piece.
This could work not only for clothes/armors but as well for vehicles/pets/ etc. - just have a standard safe grafic model used for each category when the actual item is 'banned' from display.
The safe mode should also block a number of 'not save' emote like the sexy dance and others that can be misused to pretend to grind on others.

Using this aproach players could enjoy all their posessions throughout the universe without impacting the 14 year old who just got a rough from mum for playing pron games, the 70 year old who just had to explain to his/her partner while he/she is hanging out in a 'nudist camp' or the family mum who was streaming some fun content until a dozend naked guys ran in to grind on her and she got locked from twitch.

When we enjoy our freedoms we always have to keep in mind the responsibilities that come with them and how our 'fun' may impact others - a respective kids/family/work/etc. safe mode would solve all these issues.


Another option to be considered is clothing restrictions in public places - we dont run naked around in our towns in real but we can at home and in respective classified areas - it would do the game well if there were ingame 'laws' where cities enforce that people dont wear armor or just underwear in cities but are actually wearing some 'main' clothing pieces. It would also make appartments/houses/landareas more useable if the owners could choose to switch off those restrictions and have some free to all parties.
It would also keep areas/planets in their 'theme' if planet partners could choose from the item database which items should look 'in theme' when comming to their planet instead of forcing another planets 'theme' on them because it had a very popular item easily accessible.
 

Legends

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Imo considering that the game allows players of 13year and up, there should have been a kid save mode developed for the game the moment someone made bodystockings and the likes.
Just have the game start up in family/kid safe mode and if someone wants to switch to 18+ - mode they can identify with their creditcard - might get more people to identify their accounts ;)
Such a safe mode would essentially make all items that are flagged as 'under 18' / 'NSFW' (not safe for work) / etc. invisible and replace an empty slot with a standard clothing piece.
This could work not only for clothes/armors but as well for vehicles/pets/ etc. - just have a standard safe grafic model used for each category when the actual item is 'banned' from display.
The safe mode should also block a number of 'not save' emote like the sexy dance and others that can be misused to pretend to grind on others.

Using this aproach players could enjoy all their posessions throughout the universe without impacting the 14 year old who just got a rough from mum for playing pron games, the 70 year old who just had to explain to his/her partner while he/she is hanging out in a 'nudist camp' or the family mum who was streaming some fun content until a dozend naked guys ran in to grind on her and she got locked from twitch.

When we enjoy our freedoms we always have to keep in mind the responsibilities that come with them and how our 'fun' may impact others - a respective kids/family/work/etc. safe mode would solve all these issues.
Yep, I like it, would solve the issues concerning this and it might not even be that hard to code really..
 

Kaiser

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I'm stunned by the simple fact that this conversation exists... :eyecrazy:

I mean, seriously, guys... seriously ? :confused:

Talking about those few clothe shaped pixels, leads you to debate about gender equality.
And for some stupid idiots, to make even racist comments, etc...

By the way, absolutely everything that is said about it, namely the "why" this thing was later limited to the Next Island planet, are only allegations.

In my opinion, it's simpler than you might think...
From the beginning, it was planned that this item was bound to NI. (you know.. palm trees, beach, bikini... you connect the dots?)
MA made some mistakes in the VU (who's surprised about this :D), and fixed it a few days later...

End of story,
but please continue, it's fascinating on a sociological level.. :rolleyes:
You communicated my point much better than I did.
 

Kaiser

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Imo considering that the game allows players of 13year and up, there should have been a kid save mode developed for the game the moment someone made bodystockings and the likes.
Just have the game start up in family/kid safe mode and if someone wants to switch to 18+ - mode they can identify with their creditcard - might get more people to identify their accounts ;)
Such a safe mode would essentially make all items that are flagged as 'under 18' / 'NSFW' (not safe for work) / etc. invisible and replace an empty slot with a standard clothing piece.
This could work not only for clothes/armors but as well for vehicles/pets/ etc. - just have a standard safe grafic model used for each category when the actual item is 'banned' from display.
The safe mode should also block a number of 'not save' emote like the sexy dance and others that can be misused to pretend to grind on others.

Using this aproach players could enjoy all their posessions throughout the universe without impacting the 14 year old who just got a rough from mum for playing pron games, the 70 year old who just had to explain to his/her partner while he/she is hanging out in a 'nudist camp' or the family mum who was streaming some fun content until a dozend naked guys ran in to grind on her and she got locked from twitch.

When we enjoy our freedoms we always have to keep in mind the responsibilities that come with them and how our 'fun' may impact others - a respective kids/family/work/etc. safe mode would solve all these issues.


Another option to be considered is clothing restrictions in public places - we dont run naked around in our towns in real but we can at home and in respective classified areas - it would do the game well if there were ingame 'laws' where cities enforce that people dont wear armor or just underwear in cities but are actually wearing some 'main' clothing pieces. It would also make appartments/houses/landareas more useable if the owners could choose to switch off those restrictions and have some free to all parties.
It would also keep areas/planets in their 'theme' if planet partners could choose from the item database which items should look 'in theme' when comming to their planet instead of forcing another planets 'theme' on them because it had a very popular item easily accessible.

I absolutely do NOT want MA making a change like this. They can't even get lag fixed. The last thing we need is them working on something like this before lag or at all really.

Can you imagine the hundreds, maybe even thousands of bugs that would come into this? It is not as easy of a solution to implement as you might think. Imagine the level of detail and change that would have to go into this.

I think a much better idea is make it 18+. I mean, at least in the US, a minor cannot sign or agree to a contract of any type, especially financial contracts which means the TOU and any other agreement cannot be applied to someone under 18. That means, that technically, a minor, in the US, could sue and get every cent they lost back. Would that ever happen? Of course not, who has money to deal with an international lawsuit over a game but it makes much more sense to raise the minimum age as opposed to redesigning the entire clothing system or designing a whole second game instance that is "safe mode". It's an interesting idea but absolutely not feasible in any reality when a 5 minute EULA change could solve the entire issue.

On the restricted clothing in public places idea, isn't that basically what started this discussion? How is that even an option, and really, isn't everywhere in EU a public place outside of apartments and other dwellings that can be set to private?
 
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I absolutely do NOT want MA making a change like this. They can't even get lag fixed. The last thing we need is them working on something like this before lag or at all really.

Can you imagine the hundreds, maybe even thousands of bugs that would come into this? It is not as easy of a solution to implement as you might think. Imagine the level of detail and change that would have to go into this.

I think a much better idea is make it 18+. I mean, at least in the US, a minor cannot sign or agree to a contract of any type, especially financial contracts which means the TOU and any other agreement cannot be applied to someone under 18. That means, that technically, a minor, in the US, could sue and get every cent they lost back. Would that ever happen? Of course not, who has money to deal with an international lawsuit over a game but it makes much more sense to raise the minimum age as opposed to redesigning the entire clothing system or designing a whole second game instance that is "safe mode". It's an interesting idea but absolutely not feasible in any reality when a 5 minute EULA change could solve the entire issue.

On the restricted clothing in public places idea, isn't that basically what started this discussion? How is that even an option, and really, isn't everywhere in EU a public place outside of apartments and other dwellings that can be set to private?
You are making this to complicated, all you need is one graphic model for each itemcategory and mindark could reuse already existing graphic models from all the generic newcomer equippment that has been designed - so in the end all they need to do is have a binary database field for a flag 0/1 for yes/no 18+ and one item table for the mapping of the alternate safe mode graphic (they already have safe mode ingame for reduced graphics settings anyway).
I have a development/IT background and could probably program a safe mode option in an afternoon including optional item tables that could be mapped by planet partners...
The question is never the effort the question only is if it should have been done considering the target audience and is due to be addressed.

EDIT: Btw this 'upgrade' would also potentially allow a slider option for a larger degree of safe mode that could be used to tune down other avatars which in turn might actually reduce graphics card related lag due to less item textures having to be loaded in large crowds of players. The reduction of graphicscard related lag might in turn make position synchronisation faster impacting other sources of lag, like radar, local chat, range checks for aggro,shooting range,loot range

EDIT2:
Or one could just go to the most basic solution and reuse the already existing graphics option Avatars:Safe mode whenever an avatar has an 18+ classified item equipped...
 
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Kerham

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That's what internet was made for.
 

jetsina

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Is there also a #noskinoffmyback campaign against cyborg suits? Or better still, can both be worn at the same time? ;) Or would that be taking the balls off the playing field altogether?
 

Captain Crunch

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Iam a media Designer and have a big group with over 175K members on facebook. This shit happens all the time. Everyday i check and approve 75 to 100 postings with drawings, 3d Models or skulptures with half naked womans. But somethimes it happens that also somebody draw or make a painting of a half naked man. I approve the posting and all the mans in the group going mad, becouse the can not handle a drawing of a half naked man. End of the story drawing or picture stays and the people can not handle it need to accept it.

No idea why it is like this. i think its in this times very normal that womans are naked or halfnaked in commercials, in tv, in the society and this is acceptable for the mans in the world. no idea what the are afraid for that the go that offense becouse of naked man.
 

Naomi

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Btw, why isn't there an F version of it? I know they exist irl...
 

osten

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Btw, why isn't there an F version of it? I know they exist irl...
The "Open V-Style Slingshot Swimsuit" seems to fit both genders.. But I assume it works best on still standing models.. Or it will eat itself into... places...
 

Darlas

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I didnt speak in the post till now because i was trying to be calm.


With all of this matter of the change of the mankini MA did the following:

1º They accepted a PP item and changed it a week later of his go in live, affecting severals people that already have pay for the bp and the mankini
2º They change the item making it the FIRST wereable or usable ITEM (not pet) locked to a location
3º Banned the free use of something that break the men "rules" doing with this in fact a sexism move since other items that let see more in F characters still free to use everywhere

If this item was locked to NI/AG before the go in live there wasnt any problem since we have been warned about it, but they changed it after they come to game and without any warning, if this item dont fit in the rules of EU things like bodystocking or partial nudity on F character doesnt do it too, or some mobs like the boorums..

For last i want to point that this its not just about the money, its about the dangerous predecents MA is sitting here of changes without warning, sexism and letting us see that PP are something tied to caly and without any way to compete in any way with it.

Best regards,
Darlas darlas darkstone.
 

mastermesh

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2º They change the item making it the FIRST wereable or usable ITEM (not pet) locked to a location
Hub items are usable but are location locked. Vehicle used to not work on an entire planet once before a recent change... then there's greece...
 

Kaiser

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You are making this to complicated, all you need is one graphic model for each itemcategory and mindark could reuse already existing graphic models from all the generic newcomer equippment that has been designed - so in the end all they need to do is have a binary database field for a flag 0/1 for yes/no 18+ and one item table for the mapping of the alternate safe mode graphic (they already have safe mode ingame for reduced graphics settings anyway).
I have a development/IT background and could probably program a safe mode option in an afternoon including optional item tables that could be mapped by planet partners...
The question is never the effort the question only is if it should have been done considering the target audience and is due to be addressed.

EDIT: Btw this 'upgrade' would also potentially allow a slider option for a larger degree of safe mode that could be used to tune down other avatars which in turn might actually reduce graphics card related lag due to less item textures having to be loaded in large crowds of players. The reduction of graphicscard related lag might in turn make position synchronisation faster impacting other sources of lag, like radar, local chat, range checks for aggro,shooting range,loot range

EDIT2:
Or one could just go to the most basic solution and reuse the already existing graphics option Avatars:Safe mode whenever an avatar has an 18+ classified item equipped...
I have been in infrastructure and app engineering for 25 years. It is not as simple as just building another graphics model in a single afternoon. You are GROSSLY over simplifying here. There are a number of huge underlying operation changes that would need to be made to support displaying which graphics model to who and when to display it. Ma just turned a simple display bug into a multi hour global outage that cost them likely hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost revenue while they fixed it.

If you can tell me even one RCE game that you have been involved in developing and have implemented this one that even remotely resembles what MA has built then I will begin to believe that you could "do this in an afternoon". Based on the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of global scale app engineering projects I have run over the last 25 years, I disagree with you 100%. You are simply bolstering your own opinion that are in no way based on fact.
 

Kaiser

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Iam a media Designer and have a big group with over 175K members on facebook. This shit happens all the time. Everyday i check and approve 75 to 100 postings with drawings, 3d Models or skulptures with half naked womans. But somethimes it happens that also somebody draw or make a painting of a half naked man. I approve the posting and all the mans in the group going mad, becouse the can not handle a drawing of a half naked man. End of the story drawing or picture stays and the people can not handle it need to accept it.

No idea why it is like this. i think its in this times very normal that womans are naked or halfnaked in commercials, in tv, in the society and this is acceptable for the mans in the world. no idea what the are afraid for that the go that offense becouse of naked man.
Homophobia ;)
 

Kaiser

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I didnt speak in the post till now because i was trying to be calm.


With all of this matter of the change of the mankini MA did the following:

1º They accepted a PP item and changed it a week later of his go in live, affecting severals people that already have pay for the bp and the mankini
2º They change the item making it the FIRST wereable or usable ITEM (not pet) locked to a location
3º Banned the free use of something that break the men "rules" doing with this in fact a sexism move since other items that let see more in F characters still free to use everywhere

If this item was locked to NI/AG before the go in live there wasnt any problem since we have been warned about it, but they changed it after they come to game and without any warning, if this item dont fit in the rules of EU things like bodystocking or partial nudity on F character doesnt do it too, or some mobs like the boorums..

For last i want to point that this its not just about the money, its about the dangerous predecents MA is sitting here of changes without warning, sexism and letting us see that PP are something tied to caly and without any way to compete in any way with it.

Best regards,
Darlas darlas darkstone.

How can you have a "dangerous precedent" in a video game? It's a game and we are talking about 10-20 USD, not really the end of the world. If you can't afford to lose 20 bucks then you shouldn't play this. Not to mention, nobody lost anything really, they just can't do whatever they want to. Hardly an earth moving issue.

One the sexism note, who cares? It's a video game. Leave the social justice warrior stuff for RL is my thought.
 

juicy001

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the first 5years >>> BooBGirL Juicy WeT ...>>>>...and...now...>>>>... Juicy Fruit Monster
i say bring back the mankini to the whole universe !
 

SSN

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Awesome change indeed, about to come back after few months break, equality on such thing is needed.


nah just kidding, is TT return fixed or still horrible ?

Nah just kidding, where is non binary version ?

Nah just kidding is the lag fixed ?



Hahah just kidding, no idea why i'm posting here, maybe my systemic something.
 

Auberon Night

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It was obviously not banned for nudity but rather for homophobia and in this day and age that is not acceptable.
So much more that can be said but no point really the basic facts will not change.
Just reinstate the mankini and let it go
 

Fortuona

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Hmmm. I don't think it should be limited where it can be worn but then again my female android can't be spawned on Calypso.... Free the Mankini and free the Android, End of story!
 

Cartoon Spoon

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Something tells me this was sneakily added by the PP in order to even some score.

All of the bikini pictures were on the top of the pile and the mankini was underneath and thats how it got rubberstamped.

Lets face it. IT IS HIDEOUS!! It makes a bit of a mockery of the game really. Imagine every M Avatar wearing them in a packed Twin Peaks. If you want to talk equality get a G-string or something, not this very satirical, item of clothing.

But the limiting of clothing to a planet is hilarious.
EGG
FACE
 

SoberPhil

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I just remembered that after these items were released, someone said that the BPs for the mankini and bikini were supposed to be limited, but them they came out as unlimited due to perfect coding. Maybe this is why they were restricted to NI?
 

MarcusLucius

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a fun item. lockit. burn it. ban it.:dunce:
 
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