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Suggestion: Manual & auto options in mining

Evey said:
A good read:

Question: - Why aren't more people Mining?

It seems to me that MindArk has turned at least some of their game development attention towards Mining in the last few years; resource maps have been re-shuffled recently and there were other changes made about 3-4 years ago which seem to have made Mining more dynamic and less flat. But the net...
www.planetcalypsoforum.com www.planetcalypsoforum.com

TLDR, A lot of people hint as extraction being one of the reasons preventing them to mine more and automated extraction is suggested by someone on post #64
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Guess they need to look into hunting or crafting.

Oh wait...hunting involves grinding through mobs. Nevermind on that then. Best Crafting.
 
OK, mining is "no fun" or to be precise, excavating is not fun but I can understand the reason for mechanics of it.


Mining as it is, regarding pure game mechanics, is fine in my opinion. But, as many players have already stated, what is missing in mining is linking gained skills to return and how those skills affect mining. Maybe I am wrong, but skills beyond ability to use item are uselss.

If I would suggets a change than that would be way to go from my point of view.
 
Evey said:
"Wave" is the current way of controlling rarity in the game. It seems there isn't another way, at least so far, to introduce the rarer resources, but just by a server cron job that runs at certain intervals, adding the rares in lootpool at that point and those resources become available until scooped out by the players poking the loot pool. For some minerals it's a set quantity per "wave". Let's say 1k Pyrite per wave. And it has high chance of dropping, after the 1k is mined, then people get the remaining fillers. The problem with this system is that it's very obvious, it's same system for all resources, all provessions, all planets. So you can spot it hunting snable, looting diluted sweat for example and some people wait for 45 minutes or so, do their thing when they spot the wave, then wait and chill for another 45-min 1hr...


People with high levels in mining had a lot of turnover and higher skill should matter as in maybe they get better TT returns, maybe they find rare resources easier compared to people with no/low skills, maybe find SOOTOs more often, mining boxes, or make the gear used at higher skill a little better, to emphasize the skills. Atm, you only need level 30, for Dclass and L30 seeker and you have same capabilities as highly skilled miners..
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Absolutely agree, I can see this happen too.

I can be happily mining with about a 50% hitrate and bam, no resources for about 2 minutes, then a location that was "dead" ie a miss, suddenly has resources in it a mere 2 minutes after checking... Come on MA, you have to implement this better.
 
Sulje said:
1. Make mining skills to have purpose, once you max L30 or terra 6/7 it makes no sense to further improve in that regard
2. Dropping probes is fun, excavating claims is not, i would suggest devs to use the game rework (ue5) and figure something out regarding this
3. Introduce anti-bot mechanics: there are mining botters roaming around and ruining markup for regular players. This is currently the worst issue when it comes to mining.
4. Introduce new mechanics that will take usage of 0.1% brain instead of just sending level 1 miner to argus pvp to mine
5. Introduce looter skills mechanics for mining
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1. Its fine as it is in my opinion.

2. Mining is like hunting but in reverse.
Hunting -> pew pew pew for some time then see results
Mining -> see results then drill drill drill
Fine as it is. If you go ahead and remove the drill drill drill part, would you also want to remove the pew pew pew part from hunting? Makes sense right?

3.
Wingpool said:
I think we can replace the wave system with a mission system.

With a mission system, game knowledge can be applied to complete objectives in an efficient manner and you can be sure you get what you are after once you have put in the work.

With a mission system, if you arent picking up the missions every hour or so then you are just getting "filler loot". Also, make sure to have multiple mission npcs spread out over the map and randomized which one to talk to. New mission npc locations every VU.
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4. Maybe you should suggest something.

5. Raising the barrier to a level playing field for lower skilled and new players is unlikely to be good for the game long term. If looter for mining becomes reality then don't be surprised if new player retention drops to 0. How do we explain it to new players that handicapping their tt returns relative to higher skilled/geared players is the way to go?

There are only two ways looter profession can provide higher tt returns for higher skilled players. Either mindark is subsidizing the higher skilled players or its being taken from the lower skilled players tt cycle. Feel free to explain why this is good for the game.
 
Maybe instead of automatic extraction, try introducing a crafted(Markup) item that allows you to maybe drop a tool on the ground that pulls resources similiar to what excavators do now, doesn't really change the speed at which you extract but allows you to continue on with mining.
 
I had this idea a long time ago that when mining in team you can have an option to allow team members to excavate other team members claims. although not as effective as auto excavating, it would provide new players or less wealthy players to provide a valuable service. In my head it would working like anyone in the team could use an excavator but the resource would go to the deed holders invent.
 
Sw4g MaSt3r said:
I had this idea a long time ago that when mining in team you can have an option to allow team members to excavate other team members claims. although not as effective as auto excavating, it would provide new players or less wealthy players to provide a valuable service. In my head it would working like anyone in the team could use an excavator but the resource would go to the deed holders invent.
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Sounds cool and all but what about solo miners, introducing new blueprints that utilize resources that have no markup due to its usefulness on a tool/item that can just make extraction more automated seems like it benefits multiple parties.
 
Cramen said:
Sounds cool and all but what about solo miners, introducing new blueprints that utilize resources that have no markup due to its usefulness on a tool/item that can just make extraction more automated seems like it benefits multiple parties.
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I can see where your coming from and yeah its also another neat idea but imo I just don't see having craftable items like that making any noticeable difference in filler MU. Fillers are mined in huge quantities and mining isn't really that popular of a main profession. and i would say if your a solo miners that's your loss in that aspect. adapt or fall behind. :)
 
ohh and I didn't mean to come across as a negative nelly. i do think most of the ideas presented here are good ideas.
 
Mining, in its current form, is effective. It allows players who are willing to invest time and patience to exchange these qualities for peds from those lacking them. While mining is monotonous and challenging, it functions well. Introducing an automatic extraction feature could, in my opinion, decrease the markup in mining while potentially making it less tedious. Therefore, my preference is to maintain mining as it is; the player base may not need the jolt of a 'mining 2.0' overhaul.
 
OP, please explain one thing. You're saying, that if the markup of pyrite (as an example, applies to any other mining loot with good MU, once people are botting on it, supply would exceed demand by far) goes down to 105%, then this would be beneficial to the game's economy and would attract more players into the mining profession. There seems to be a major flaw in this logic, don't you think?
 
The only change that needs to happen with mining is whilst in pvp zones, claims should be drillable by anyone, Promote skilling and competition, no one is forced to mine in a pvp zone.

Also there is already mining bots in this game, every aspect of entropia should not be done afk, you have more than enough time to drill any claim you get whilst mining, if you let the claim expire then that is on you. Easy fix, if you dont want to spend the time drilling your claims, dont drop probes in the first place
 
SoberPhil said:
OP, please explain one thing. You're saying, that if the markup of pyrite (as an example, applies to any other mining loot with good MU, once people are botting on it, supply would exceed demand by far) goes down to 105%, then this would be beneficial to the game's economy and would attract more players into the mining profession. There seems to be a major flaw in this logic, don't you think?
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Bots should be addressed straight away.

Why do people assume bots are kept out of mining just by having long extraction process?

Why do people assume everyone would jump in to mining making it very unprofitable straight away? Including bots...

People are not throwing big amount of resources unless there an interest there, either MU, or for other reasons. Extraction is not the essence of mining, Knowledge is, bankroll is. Saving time with extraction would allow bigger participation in the profession which is what we all want, new player to have activities to do. Or do we want new players to stay in towns and in malls to just buy what 10 miners mine? Look at the bigger picture, spot bottlenecks and remove them if you want growth.
 
Evey said:
Bots should be addressed straight away.

Why do people assume bots are kept out of mining just by having long extraction process?

Why do people assume everyone would jump in to mining making it very unprofitable straight away? Including bots...

People are not throwing big amount of resources unless there an interest there, either MU, or for other reasons. Extraction is not the essence of mining, Knowledge is, bankroll is. Saving time with extraction would allow bigger participation in the profession which is what we all want, new player to have activities to do. Or do we want new players to stay in towns and in malls to just buy what 10 miners mine? Look at the bigger picture, spot bottlenecks and remove them if you want growth.
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The major issue is supply and demand. With this new suggested model supply would far overwhelm demand. I realize you just understood mining is profitable and you want in but it will stop being profitable if everyone can just automate it. The reason it is profitable is because you cant. Let's leave it that way.
 
Theocles said:
The only change that needs to happen with mining is whilst in pvp zones, claims should be drillable by anyone, Promote skilling and competition, no one is forced to mine in a pvp zone.

Also there is already mining bots in this game, every aspect of entropia should not be done afk, you have more than enough time to drill any claim you get whilst mining, if you let the claim expire then that is on you. Easy fix, if you dont want to spend the time drilling your claims, dont drop probes in the first place
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I second that mining claims in lootable should be drillable by anyone!
 
A-Bomb said:
The major issue is supply and demand. With this new suggested model supply would far overwhelm demand. I realize you just understood mining is profitable and you want in but it will stop being profitable if everyone can just automate it. The reason it is profitable is because you cant. Let's leave it that way.
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If mining is profitable is because there is a demand and people know where, how and when to mine. NOT because it takes long to extract and others don't do it. If more people would do it, it would self regulate, some might still have the upper hand with knowledge, patience and bankroll. Thinking keeping people away from it is the key to a more successful game is really cynical and hypocritical imo... and I realize there are a few miners saying mining is very bad for years just so they can discourage others from doing it. You judge if that's good and healthy for the game....
 
Evey said:
If mining is profitable is because there is a demand and people know where, how and when to mine. NOT because it takes long to extract and others don't do it. If more people would do it, it would self regulate, some might still have the upper hand with knowledge, patience and bankroll. Thinking keeping people away from it is the key to a more successful game is really cynical and hypocritical imo... and I realize there are a few miners saying mining is very bad for years just so they can discourage others from doing it. You judge if that's good and healthy for the game....
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A big part of why mining is profitable is because of the time sink. The time sink does two things, make material take longer to aquire and "scare off" people because its boring. One of the few things left where time is valued is in mining.
Absolutely it will self-regulate and this is one of the points i made. It will self regulate into margins not worth the time for people to venture into it. This is a sure fire way to ruin the chance of getting any new players to stay ever.

New players cant go hunting because there is no mu and with the looter skills theyre just dead in the water. They will just lose, lose and keep losing and eventually leave. We both know to stand a chance of any profit hunting is all in the weapon and the looter skills (sure add the knowlege of knowing what to hunt, why and when). And then sure you can make up some extra margin in skills and healing solution. But this is all a big investment. And just because you made it you can't just tell people to stay and make the same investment. This will just completly eliminate casual players. You want casual players. Why are you trying to suggest new things that will chase them away?

Mining is the last bastion for the little guy. You shouldn't mess with it. And im honestly shocked by your shortsight of making a quick ped. If you automate mining you will go from 5 or 10% profit doing it to 0.3% or something similar in less than three months. Do you honestly not see this? And do you honestly not understand what it would do for the overall economy and player retention?
 
Evey said:
Why do people assume everyone would jump in to mining making it very unprofitable straight away?
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Evey said:
Saving time with extraction would allow bigger participation in the profession which is what we all want
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I see you already answered that one.

Evey said:
Thinking keeping people away from it is the key to a more successful game is really cynical and hypocritical imo...
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Cynical and hypocritical is pretending you care for those people, when the only thing you want is not to pay any MU, to those same miners, when next resource mayhem comes.
 
LokoMotive said:
Mining, in its current form, is effective. It allows players who are willing to invest time and patience to exchange these qualities for peds from those lacking them. While mining is monotonous and challenging, it functions well. Introducing an automatic extraction feature could, in my opinion, decrease the markup in mining while potentially making it less tedious. Therefore, my preference is to maintain mining as it is; the player base may not need the jolt of a 'mining 2.0' overhaul.
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Could have not said it better myself, but I respect the avatar who has asked this so much that I could not be fucked to actually use more words than "No!".
 
ive not read all the posts, but il make an analogy.. a long time ago, ive hunted proterons, back then, there was either HORRIBLE spot outside tax, or hunting on a nice spot inside tax, the horrible spot had only a few proterons, mixed in with high mat atrox, hyriu, and snargs

now after i figured out how to hunt within such a shit area, i had a huge advamntage, becouse nobody else wanted to bother hunting in that shit spot, but slowly MA made the area very clean, removed all the dangerous mobs, and insreased number of proterons.. very soon everybody was hunting proteron, and suddenly the MU was gone

sure, when something is in a way where YOU cant do it, you want the change to make it more accesable to you, but in doing so, you will kill the MU, becouse if anybody can do it, then it cannot be profitable for long

the things that are annoying to do, for example gathering wood from trees, if it was made easy, like you can gather infinite times from same tree, the markup would go away, markup on items that are in demand either comes from nobody beeing able to do the content, or nobody WILLING to do the content, and that in itself is an oportunity
 
Goldenboy24 said:
ive not read all the posts, but il make an analogy.. a long time ago, ive hunted proterons, back then, there was either HORRIBLE spot outside tax, or hunting on a nice spot inside tax, the horrible spot had only a few proterons, mixed in with high mat atrox, hyriu, and snargs

now after i figured out how to hunt within such a shit area, i had a huge advamntage, becouse nobody else wanted to bother hunting in that shit spot, but slowly MA made the area very clean, removed all the dangerous mobs, and insreased number of proterons.. very soon everybody was hunting proteron, and suddenly the MU was gone

sure, when something is in a way where YOU cant do it, you want the change to make it more accesable to you, but in doing so, you will kill the MU, becouse if anybody can do it, then it cannot be profitable for long

the things that are annoying to do, for example gathering wood from trees, if it was made easy, like you can gather infinite times from same tree, the markup would go away, markup on items that are in demand either comes from nobody beeing able to do the content, or nobody WILLING to do the content, and that in itself is an oportunity
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Ok, now please, use small words and explain this again to @Evey.
 
Goldenboy24 said:
the things that are annoying to do, for example gathering wood from trees, if it was made easy, like you can gather infinite times from same tree, the markup would go away, markup on items that are in demand either comes from nobody beeing able to do the content, or nobody WILLING to do the content, and that in itself is an oportunity
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Agreed, hard work and annoyances create possibility of MU but it's artificial, limited by mechanics. Remove the limitation by the system and let skill and knowledge be the determining factor for MU.

Higher cycles would increase opportunities as well and demand for mining equipment as well. MA can do a macro research on impact and as mining started to get some attention from MA with Gold Rush, Resource Mayehm. The auto extraction already exists, it should only be extended


sorinel89 said:
Ok, now please, use small words and explain this again to @Evey.
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Man it's just a suggestion, you've already said your default no, don't take these so personal =))
 
Sw4g MaSt3r said:
I had this idea a long time ago that when mining in team you can have an option to allow team members to excavate other team members claims. although not as effective as auto excavating, it would provide new players or less wealthy players to provide a valuable service. In my head it would working like anyone in the team could use an excavator but the resource would go to the deed holders invent.
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Legit idea. We just need a cool name now.
 
At this point I dont think that the lack of understanding of consecuences of this implementation is the problem here.
Im pretty sure they are aware. Just dont care what will happen to the rest as long as it brings more money... to them.

There is 0 skill, or knowledge, involved in this change. Mining is, by far, most accessible and newcomers friendly profession that can give people a purpose in this game, and a chance to succeed. Which will make them stay, instead of leaving dissapointed. You just need to put time and dedication into it.

I really wish for a loot 3.0. For another purge of "irreplaceables". It did a lot of good to the game back then.
 
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i agree with mind, and as ive allready said, the fact that something is difficult or annoying to do, that in itself creates the oportunity, beeing able to cycle more is not good for the game.. idk where this idea came from, IF cycling is all that matters, then why even have any gameplay in between how much you can cycle, why not just have a station near the auctioneer that will automine the world for you, while you wait..... -> but why wait at all, why not just have people input number of probes they wanna drop and execute the action instantly

consider this

Parasites evolve to maximize their reproductive success, which can sometimes involve strategies that harm the host. For instance, a parasite might reproduce so rapidly or consume so many resources that it overwhelms the host's ability to survive. If the evolutionary pressure favors rapid reproduction over host longevity, the parasite might inadvertently kill its host.
 
Don't fix it if it's not broken. Invest in powerful excavator and it's less boring; otherwise mining is not for you, go pew some more.
 
anonimity said:
Lootable pvp is theft and you should go to jail for stealing from people!!

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:
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Wingpool said:
1.

There are only two ways looter profession can provide higher tt returns for higher skilled players. Either mindark is subsidizing the higher skilled players or its being taken from the lower skilled players tt cycle. Feel free to explain why this is good for the game.
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The looter system solidifies a pyramid scheme by means of a "skill system"
 
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