Mayhem weapons: a value guess

[unufain8]

the mod nano should cost 20k more than the normal one as per token
perception... deception... misleading beliefs, difference of information make a trade.

Dude, 20+ dps difference between two weapons is a huge gap, not to mention the eff, dpp, your 20k ped difference its just your thoughts, the reality something else. the normal blade will sell also way less than mod one.

 

[RickEngland]

Personally I'm not interested in any of the tokens, only the cost and supply of the 'actual' weapons. So my strategy is as follows:

1) let the community collect the tokens and claim the weapons like good little ants.

2) Wait to MA completely devalues these 80% eff weapons to poo, such as year 20 year weapons or other nerf.

3) Give it another year, for that to sink in and the market adjust.

4) Buy 80% efficency weapon for around 4k ped. So my cost to buy the fruit machine, to play the fruit machine is considerably lower.

5) start shooting again.

Smiles

Rick.

 

[warmdogg]

Personally I'm not interested in any of the tokens, only the cost and supply of the 'actual' weapons. So my strategy is as follows:

1) let the community collect the tokens and claim the weapons like good little ants.

2) Wait to MA completely devalues these 80% eff weapons to poo, such as year 20 year weapons or other nerf.

3) Give it another year, for that to sink in and the market adjust.

4) Buy 80% efficency weapon for around 4k ped. So my cost to buy the fruit machine, to play the fruit machine is considerably lower.

5) start shooting again.

Smiles

Rick.

I think you’re on to something, maybe wait 40 years though… is the smart thing to do after all.

 

[RickEngland]

I think you’re on to something, maybe wait 40 years though… is the smart thing to do after all.

True right

Well ultimately, based on many forum posts, even with the best weapons and all the bolt on gear such as top rings amps etc, that would give 85% - 95% return excluding skill requirement.

So if I'm going to turn 10 million ped on future, I'm not interested unless I can meaningfully compete "on a personal" acceptable return basis. That my friends is the harsh reality of the situation.

Until then, I'll watch from the sidelines and collect some deed income. Good luck to all though chasing to glory.

Rick.

 

[atomicstorm]

This thread is a prime example of everything wrong with the entropia player base.

 

[RickEngland]

that thread wasn't serious man. it was a sarcasm and trolling due to my inability to pull a rare token. i was never going to pull/sell those. and evey is right regarding the mod nanos. they fetch 400k pricetags for a reason.

they playerbase is honestly very good at coming to weapon values, especially given the playbase is so small and the weapons are so few. it's very very rare you find someone overpaying or underpaying by loads.

400k ?

Players are paying 40 thousand dollars?

We are talking about the same game right, where in 2006 2007, a player could hunt for an entire month with an off the shelf shit weapon like justifier mkII for £40 a month (full time shooting).

The kid CEO running this firm needs a reality check.

 

[Deemer]

I have no idea why this is the whole point, given that the MA has removed the monopoly on rare tokens.

If you're trying to price the Rare Token with this topic... it's not possible. Idiocy will always prevail significantly over everything else, and for the places where gaps remain, there are enough AFK ALT Avatars to be there.

Economics... pricing... annual reports... I'm sure I'll miss a lot of other tricks to calculate another player's future profits... but de facto none of you talk about the game.... greedy trolls.

If one of the many tards has sharpen tongue to buy Azuro to sell it to me, keep in mind that I will buy it for 500 pure ped.
But don't expect I will pay 9k even forget for 22k for 4 dps gun.
Maybe i wont save my 2 peks for fuel at this final 500 ped price if we are not on the same planet and have to come to you.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

400k ?

Players are paying 40 thousand dollars?

We are talking about the same game right, where in 2006 2007, a player could hunt for an entire month with an off the shelf shit weapon like justifier mkII for £40 a month (full time shooting).

The kid CEO running this firm needs a reality check.

A T10 LP 100 mod sold for 400k a few months ago. This is where the prices are for the top range weapons.
You have to focus less on the investment cost and more on the insane ROI that top players can achieve with them if they have the right knowledge and dedication to go with it. Is it a good investment for everyone? No.

 

[Msturlese]

OP was about splitting item value into (x * noirmaltoken)+(y*raretoken)+premiunforwhateverreason

it lead to a normaltoken value of 0.75 to 1.5
it lead to a raretokenvalue of 6.000 / 7.000
and a premiumforwhateverreason ranging from 10% for "10k token item" to 200% for "this item let you pull another so you payme in advance your future profit to get in and profit later"

this is coherent with real economy, spend now and hope to collect later. it s perfect, like a mortgage to get a truck to work.

[Moderated: Removed reply to deleted post]

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Please stick to the topic of the thread. This is not the place for personal disputes, discussions about completely different topics, or various accusations. Any further rule violations or attempts at derailing the topic will be met with temp bans.

 

[Entropia Dao]

A T10 LP 100 mod sold for 400k a few months ago. This is where the prices are for the top range weapons.
You have to focus less on the investment cost and more on the insane ROI that top players can achieve with them if they have the right knowledge and dedication to go with it. Is it a good investment for everyone? No.

I wonder about that "insane" ROI.
How much of it is true and how much of it is sustainable?
Is that ROI mostly looting other rare tokens in mayhem? and if so doesn't it quickly devaluate the weapons initial price?

I think the OP is onto something for a bottom price. Sure one can wait until one loots one or more rare tokens, but what for people that don't?
And what a the point that all UL weapons are sold out of vendor? Unless they will continually restock every mayhem, in which case the weapon value will drop a lot over the years.


Also, that ROI assumes either that one values one's time as worthless, or one uses a bot.

 

[RickEngland]

A T10 LP 100 mod sold for 400k a few months ago. This is where the prices are for the top range weapons.
You have to focus less on the investment cost and more on the insane ROI that top players can achieve with them if they have the right knowledge and dedication to go with it. Is it a good investment for everyone? No.

I don't believe the small size of the Entropia community could financially support continuous "insane ROI", of quite alot of weapons at or around those levels. But it's not me you need to convince, it's the players thinking about buying the guns for those 400k+ sums. Haha.

I'm not convinced that; "buy a million ped of gear and win the game"... will attract thousands of customers either, but who knows.

Personally I'm happy with my adjusted det blade, think it cost me 700 ped and I don't need to find 399300 more ped to balance my weapon investment cost. In fact I don't care at all about 800 ped (it's peanuts).

Rick.

 

[Msturlese]

The game is based (MA statistic) on a 0.98 return coeff
so teh WHOLE SYSTEM is returning average less than 98% ior... the game destroy (Entriopia) 2% each cycle.
when we talk about TT Return , describe it as you prefer, last week tables were printed and we are under 99% MADNATORY
so every player looses at least 1% tt and if he is wining 2% he will loose 3% tomorrow... math dont lie.

then over 10.000 ped PED card (average joe) adn it is a nice 1000 USD,
for a shooter that roate the card in full the whole day then goto sleep (so no bots, or the situation is worse)
day 1 10.000 day 2 9800, day 3 9.604 day 4 8412 day 5 9.223 .....day 30 = 5.566 ( 44% of value is destroyed cycling 30 times the TT
MA refers to TT return,m so i add also the conversion of 80% of shrapnels (for caly, outside planet is less) 1.738 PED
so the total loss of PED CARD is (10.000 - 5566 - 1738)= 2.696 (lesser value of PED card)
then there is the MU extracted that makes the difference..... BUT....... IT IS NOT MA MONEY
MU is player money so.... the player looses 2.700 then takes off another player 3000 and goes positive 300 (example)
the loss is not cancelled, it is passed to someone else.

we are TRASFERING LOSSES FROM ONE TO ANOTHER, and adding to the "player debit" just like government,
where MA is the central bank (yes,m PED printing is seniorage)

All the system is based on MU trasnfer (Tax income) just like a real economy...
player that dont care of break even and just Pay to Play and forget the transfered money are the ones that keep the system up

if all the players push to "play for free" or with the lie of "play to earn", the MU collapses toward zero (like it happens now on huntloot)
and the value of the items does not fall because the owner can afford to keep them in storage.

the only solution is the increase of return but with staff rising into MA it is not piossible without rise in playerbase
(that does not happen due to the bad returns and due to the lack of efficiency in the economic sustem).

we experienced the sinew and incision plate phenomenon, after a starting 300 ped per piece, the small playerbase was served in weeks
and price of the incision plates ruined to 40 ped, sinew fell from 350 to 225 and so on.

Rick is very right, you can purchase a 40.000 USD item to obtain another similar one in one year, and (here is the caveat)
IF YOU FIND SOMEONE READY TO BUY IT TOO you will recoup your advanced money and have the item.

now the questiuon: how many peiople in the struggling economy after covid and in rising interest rate inj the usa (stocks will loose 30% in
a couple of uyears) are ready to put 50.000 USD in a videogame?

i am curious, have no opinon at all and i reiterate i am not trying to make a living off a game, just curious.
and yes it is fascinating because my NTI shares are not paying since some mondays.. and are offered uder value.
the Hype trap worked, curiositym, not envy or will of control.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

I wonder about that "insane" ROI.
How much of it is true and how much of it is sustainable?
Is that ROI mostly looting other rare tokens in mayhem? and if so doesn't it quickly devaluate the weapons initial price?

I think the OP is onto something for a bottom price. Sure one can wait until one loots one or more rare tokens, but what for people that don't?
And what a the point that all UL weapons are sold out of vendor? Unless they will continually restock every mayhem, in which case the weapon value will drop a lot over the years.


Also, that ROI assumes either that one values one's time as worthless, or one uses a bot.

I don't believe the small size of the Entropia community could financially support continuous "insane ROI", of quite alot of weapons at or around those levels. But it's not me you need to convince, it's the players thinking about buying the guns for those 400k+ sums. Haha.

I'm not convinced that; "buy a million ped of gear and win the game"... will attract thousands of customers either, but who knows.

Personally I'm happy with my adjusted det blade, think it cost me 700 ped and I don't need to find 399300 more ped to balance my weapon investment cost. In fact I don't care at all about 800 ped (it's peanuts).

Rick.

I’ll reply to you both since you basically pointed out the same thing.
Well I agree, the big profits come from pulling vendor weapons. The ROI will likely decrease over time as more tokens get farmed and the world gets populated with more 2.0 guns over time without a significant increase in high investment players ready to buy them. Ue5 might save us, might not. However I still think the current owner of that weapon and the next one or two will still be able to reap the benefits, the sky never falls as quick as you think it will. By the time I get there I might be too late, and such an investment isn’t fitting or my current lifestyle anyway, not anymore sadly.

 

[RickEngland]

I’ll reply to you both since you basically pointed out the same thing.
Well I agree, the big profits come from pulling vendor weapons. The ROI will likely decrease over time as more tokens get farmed and the world gets populated with more 2.0 guns over time without a significant increase in high investment players ready to buy them. Ue5 might save us, might not. However I still think the current owner of that weapon and the next one or two will still be able to reap the benefits, the sky never falls as quick as you think it will. By the time I get there I might be too late, and such an investment isn’t fitting or my current lifestyle anyway, not anymore sadly.

The great thing about owning a universe, is God can do anything he/she likes. The sky doesn't fall for God, as long as they have depositors. So more often than not, the entertainment is watching what God does next, to keep the dollars rolling in. At the moment we can collect tokens for weapons, maybe in a few years you're be collecting tokens for just "parts of guns". You'll need two years of events to make a gun, and they will be selling for 800k peds. Or parts of guns will change hands for 100k peds. Now that would make me laugh.

Good luck out there.

Rick

 

[Rocket192]

I wonder about that "insane" ROI.
How much of it is true and how much of it is sustainable?
Is that ROI mostly looting other rare tokens in mayhem? and if so doesn't it quickly devaluate the weapons initial price?

I think the OP is onto something for a bottom price. Sure one can wait until one loots one or more rare tokens, but what for people that don't?
And what a the point that all UL weapons are sold out of vendor? Unless they will continually restock every mayhem, in which case the weapon value will drop a lot over the years.


Also, that ROI assumes either that one values one's time as worthless, or one uses a bot.

i've made almost 100k ped since HWM on events alone. and i wasn't even using top-end gear and didn't have the best TT returns. My tt was 1% behind the best and markup output easily 3% behind the top dpp players.

the ROI on a top-end weapon loadout, assuming you have the years worth of skills to make use of it, is incredibly high. Evey alone was on a mission to make 500k in a year with lp100 when no one thought that was possible, but he did it.


not hard to make your investment back in a year or less. weapons are still underpriced in these conditions imo. even more so with poor people cashing out due to fiscal tightening and then russians getting axed.


that being said, someone who plays 2-3h/day has no business spending 300k+ on a weapon. imo.

 

[Evey]

I wonder about that "insane" ROI.
How much of it is true and how much of it is sustainable?
Is that ROI mostly looting other rare tokens in mayhem? and if so doesn't it quickly devaluate the weapons initial price?

I think the OP is onto something for a bottom price. Sure one can wait until one loots one or more rare tokens, but what for people that don't?
And what a the point that all UL weapons are sold out of vendor? Unless they will continually restock every mayhem, in which case the weapon value will drop a lot over the years.


Also, that ROI assumes either that one values one's time as worthless, or one uses a bot.

ROI of a weapon is not like ROI of deeds.
It's something you still have to work for, a lot, if you want more value on your investment. And you have to work quite a hard. People that cannot be arsed to find even 800 peds profit (it's peanuts), no matter how much time they would have to do such a task, should not bother at all with these kind of tools, it's definitely 100% not for them, not now, not ever. Use the (L) version guys.

ROI of a weapon is very different than the potential of a weapon. The prices have been pushed up by resellers beyond the potential, for the loot 2.0 items and then the lockdown came and demand spiked past what resellers were asking just months back, past what most people (including me) thought it was ridiculous. The interesting is that opportunities followed, increasing value of these even further.

And since ROI of a weapon depends on one's ability to find opportunities past the norm, have more patience than the norm, push harder than the norm, this ROI will be very different for each of us thus is not subject to put under the microscope and explained in depth for everyone to understand (even with drawings and explicit specifications from developers people struggle with the basics). ROI is very different from person to person and depends on a ton of factors:

- do you have knowledge of what and when to hunt? and what NOT to hunt?
- will you tier it?
- how fast? do you know the cost of tiering and the struggle to find the mats?
- do you have good enough defense to have most opportunities available?
- do you have decent rings and attachments?

If you play "for fun" (too lazy to find markup and just want the big swirlies) or if you're after pure skilling (HP, evade, biggest lvl ingame) these have no ROI, they are not assets, they are liabilities. If you count the tokens for the value of Adj Hedoc, you'll get smth even worthless
Some players hunt "for fun only not for profit" for years then they whine they lost too much. Players that hunt for profit also hunt for fun, the difference is that those who play for profit, always have fun.

So because of all these, there can't be a base for the MToken. Once that's generally accepted. You said pills, I say the top item in vendor. Some may say adj hedoc or some other worthless item from vendor (did you see that people pulled (L) Mayhem amps from the vendor?). So no, this is not how to find out what's the ideal cost of a BP110, comparing it with pills price... and premium is not given by grinders, ROI, resellers, but by demand and opportunities.

 

[Msturlese]

nice post Evey. value of dedicationa nd knowledge. reallu appreciate it.

as per item value, i find extremely cheap a BP110 offered at 192k on teh forum with T2.
too bad i need 40 more levels or i would seriusly consider it.

and i agree aswell as "most expensive are top tier or 60...80 zone) i find myself in that zone
and i recognize highest markup for good weapons is in this range.

pulling a (L) amp from mayhem vendor is being math blind, selling pills and purrchasing
from box openers is 10x cheaper.... but as you said.. KNOWLEDGE and dedication ...
all in alla also 100k ped with a small 150k cycle per month is amortized in 3 year...
and with a LP100 the cycel capacity is way more than that.

solid arguments . TY

 

[Evey]

too bad i need 40 more levels or i would seriusly consider it.

If you would be serious about this, 40 levels is nothing. You'd have a solid goal.

 

[Sulje]

If you would be serious about this, 40 levels is nothing. You'd have a solid goal.

Depends if it's 0-40 or 80-120, whole different numbers to take into account when it comes to tt loss. Buying weapon is one thing, maxing it is whole different world, they should definitely add more mid level weapons to the mayhem vendor and loot.

 

[Msturlese]

@ suljie it is 74 to 110 (max) or 105 to be mid.sib (40 level)
as per items, it is part of the puramid, if people level in large amount with supereco weapons, MA return would suffer too much
level 40 to 80 present not many alternatives...
EWE 41 mil, maddox4 adj, chips, lp40 and garbage rifles if we exclude fenlr40
after 80 alternatives arrive.....

@ Evey: also using codex for HG instaead of looter (and i wil not move from the looter path)
tehse 40 level are not that fast.... at least for me, maybe i am doing it wrong
anyway, back to grind and i agree on the mediium term plan

 

[ProActive Mango]

There is WAAAY to few mid or low lvl weapons that have good eff, they should add more of these to the mayhem vendor sence most of the player base is low skilled players and therefore the game needs more of said weapons.

 

[Rocket192]

there's too many mid/low skilled players imo. it's a sad state of affairs honestly when all you have to do is push with some skill pills for a few months and you exceed 100 hit/dmg and can use almost any weapon.

 

[Msturlese]

There is WAAAY to few mid or low lvl weapons that have good eff, they should add more of these to the mayhem vendor sence most of the player base is low skilled players and therefore the game needs more of said weapons.

maybe i am wrong but... those level are the ones of "transition" for which the best is to use a mix of "whatever you find" or armatrix to progress
at level 85 with 3x accuracy enhancers the worst L100 items are over 3 DPP that is better than armatrix at 120% MU

so the real matter is to use an EWE41 from 40 to 80.. it becomes really slow to skill with that dps so armatrix is the key from 60 to 86 imho

 

[ProActive Mango]

maybe i am wrong but... those level are the ones of "transition" for which the best is to use a mix of "whatever you find" or armatrix to progress
at level 85 with 3x accuracy enhancers the worst L100 items are over 3 DPP that is better than armatrix at 120% MU

so the real matter is to use an EWE41 from 40 to 80.. it becomes really slow to skill with that dps so armatrix is the key from 60 to 86 imho

The thing is, not every player WANT to play at an endgame level, sence its very expensive to do so, most ppl feel most comfortible using around lvl50 ish weapon, so therefore the game needs more low lvl weapons.

 

[Igorl]

New mayhem format drew from dps per lev requirement towards eco. And primary ROI on weapons is new mayhem weapons for other ppl to get tokens to get more mayhem weapons.

This pyramid sheme is still working and itll take some time until top 100 players are pulling so many mtokens that only scarcity via not restocking trader or rare token non dropping will contain it.

Impact of infinite grind on box markup is already pretty obvious.

Everything else is alot of overthinking. My 2 pec guys. I might be wrong. But every time I saw move from luck or competition to grind, the grinded component markup got smashed.

I.

 

[warmdogg]

Impact of infinite grind on box markup is already pretty obvious.

Is hard to see if the new format has effected the price, we really need to see a decent ring in the boxes before having any idea of what the true effect is.

I would argue that more people are depositing via boxes to shoot at mayhem than before, so the increased box amount generated could be somewhat balanced out by increased deposit/cycle.

 

[Msturlese]

I would argue that more people are depositing via boxes to shoot at mayhem than before, so the increased box amount generated could be somewhat balanced out by increased deposit/cycle.

you mean normal boxes or buy key for seasonals?
i think both of them just because box avoid the deposit fee

if is not the ring it is the amps inside that make a box undervalued under 2 ped...
purchasing key and boxes at 1.4 is still a big bargain to deposit in game

 

[Rocket192]

summer boxes retained value because the ring sells for 30k


as with everything else in this game, the markup of an item is only worth the potential rewards of using it. If MA would stop putting out shit rings the boxes would be 2.2-2.5/ea again

 

[Msturlese]

01 may a quick update.... just read this on the Calytrade

[#calytrade] [dynamage]: wts [Mayhem Trauma Amplifier 1]+9.5k

token for pill based on HYper is 40 pec per token

10k token is 4000 + 5.500 for the rarea... this Amp price is so compressed that i cant see it any lower....

the LR-20 Rifle is offered at 13k..... smaller item are pushed to floor limit....

let's see the bigger ones.....