More/New UL weapon offerings

Rocket192

Stalker
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,347
Location
Michigan
Society
Hunters Unlimited
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
The avg player doesn't use UL equipment. Upper 70%-90%+ are the ones who are highly invested in the game, some want to use these weapons to compete in mayhems others to get higher avg tt return.

yeah i mean the average person is not going to profit and shouldn't expect to. I don't want this to spiral into a "haves vs. have-nots" debate like every thread on PCF.

regarding the 70%+ eff category, you're options right now for UL are ~60% or 80%+ --- price points being probably 6k vs. 60k for most weapons. There's a huge "void" here that could/should be filled with weapons in the 70-80% category, with midlevel/modest DPS. Add to that the lack of MF and melee options are a drag (specifically MF amps)

let's not even discuss who signed off on some garbage argonaut claw for a texture model instead of something more "cool" and "sci-fi" oriented (laser fists and what not).

there are voids to be filled, content bridges that need gapped, and overall supply/demand issues to be addressed.


L weapons which add 3%+ cost to your gameplay where markup output is 101-102% is not a sustainable model for a game that seems to solely care about the hunting profession.
 

wizz

Elite
Joined
May 29, 2005
Posts
4,038
Location
Brabant
Society
The Ministry
Avatar Name
Wizzina Wizz Pale Moon
The avg player doesn't use UL equipment. The avg player uses (L) weapons. I

Hmmm....

I'm an average player. And I use UL equipment.
Just not 70+ eff weapons, but still all UL.
And many average players like me who do as well ;)
 

wizz

Elite
Joined
May 29, 2005
Posts
4,038
Location
Brabant
Society
The Ministry
Avatar Name
Wizzina Wizz Pale Moon
L weapons which add 3%+ cost to your gameplay where markup output is 101-102% is not a sustainable model for a game that seems to solely care about the hunting profession.

Well, that depends.
I think that's only true for a die hard grinder and not a casual player.

you could spend 30k on a gun.
Or you can spend 100 ped on an L weapon and buy deeds for the 29900 you got left.
With the deed returns you can compensate your MU on the L weapons.

So, IMO a casual player who doesnt cycle thousands of peds per day would be better of with paying the MU with deed income than to buy a very expensive rifle.
This also contributes a lot to the flexibility since yuo can buy any rifle you like.

But I guess I'm drifting a bit of course of your initial point.
 

Sub-Zero

Elite
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Posts
3,349
Location
Sweden
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Sub-Zero The Killer
yeah i mean the average person is not going to profit and shouldn't expect to. I don't want this to spiral into a "haves vs. have-nots" debate like every thread on PCF.

regarding the 70%+ eff category, you're options right now for UL are ~60% or 80%+ --- price points being probably 6k vs. 60k for most weapons. There's a huge "void" here that could/should be filled with weapons in the 70-80% category, with midlevel/modest DPS. Add to that the lack of MF and melee options are a drag (specifically MF amps)

let's not even discuss who signed off on some garbage argonaut claw for a texture model instead of something more "cool" and "sci-fi" oriented (laser fists and what not).

there are voids to be filled, content bridges that need gapped, and overall supply/demand issues to be addressed.


L weapons which add 3%+ cost to your gameplay where markup output is 101-102% is not a sustainable model for a game that seems to solely care about the hunting profession.
Smart people can do well with (L) weapons just gotta know what to do with them. You can bulk purchase (L) weapons from a crafter getting a bigger discount. You can hunt bigger MU mobs. You can choose to only use them on events where the MU is often highest. (L) ain't meant to be a way to profit though just a way to get progress and get skills.
MA doesn't want too much high eff for you know for pretty obvious reasons. They set a standard eff for (L) armatrix weapons, this is the aprox eff that they want the avg player to run at. Anything above that should in theory lead to better returns. I also believe that if your looter is above that you will too start seeing better returns than the avg player does with (L) armatrix guns even if you're using lower eff.
Like I said before don't be too picky. You used imp m2870 for a while before the imk2 if I recall. That one is around 15k-ish nowadays I think. A 70% eff weapon with descent dps. What you're asking to fill that void will only happen when MA decide they wanna raise the avg player base eff again. I don't see this happening anytime soon I don't see them adding too many higher 70-80% eff UL guns either in the future, for example in the supposedly upcoming "TWEN" event. You can wait for years and hope for when that day comes or make a decision and stick with it.

Hmmm....

I'm an average player. And I use UL equipment.
Just not 70+ eff weapons, but still all UL.
And many average players like me who do as well ;)
Clearly we have different definitions of the average player. ;)
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Posts
3,584
Society
Titans of Space
Avatar Name
John Black Knight
Rocket i like you but if you sell a weapon for 95k that clearly qualifies as high efficiency and you clearly benefit from the sale - its abit hypecritical to then afterwards ask for more high efficiency weapons because they are so expensive.
Cause thats what it comes down to its not hard to get a weapon if you are willing to pay more then your competition.
Every high efficiency weapon mindark gives out is a 'fastlane ticket' to circumvent all the other players who spent the effort of skilling up looter profs into the 70-80range...

The solution to solving returrns for midlvl players isnt to give a few more fastlane passes out its to create more mu for the hunting profession instead.
 
Last edited:

Rocket192

Stalker
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,347
Location
Michigan
Society
Hunters Unlimited
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
Rocket i like you but if you sell a weapon for 95k that clearly qualifies as high efficiency and you clearly benefit from the sale - its abit hypecritical to then afterwards ask for more high efficiency weapons because they are so expensive.
100% agree and regretted the sale dozens of times over. taking a 3 week break was a piss poor excuse to sell a top-tier weapon i spent so long trying to find.

and yeah there would be a remarkable difference in the effectiveness of "lesser" weapons if the profession had maybe 1-1.5% higher average markup for example.
 

Synial

Mature
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Posts
36
Location
United States
Avatar Name
Yog Synial Sothoth
It’s a shame that so many Entropians are so clearly out of touch with trends in the rest of the gaming industry and are here as wannabe investors instead of gamers that actually SPEND money.

It’s not like it would take much effort or innovation to come up with ideas to solve a weapon shortage during a time of playerbase growth and uncertain player retention. Use seasonal events such as migration to integrate some new missions. Cycle 250k, 500k, 1m, whatever amount of PED on longtooth/eomon, then get access to a vendor that sells weapons relative to the cycle for 20k, 40k, 80k shrapnel… and make them avatar bound.

There are people that actually are okay with SPENDING money and not just being a liability to the “investment platform” that could sell their weapon and cash out at any moment.

They implemented their first PED sink on a small scale with the resto chips (galactica) to test the waters. It’s just a matter of time before they do it again. If they actually want to make more money then maybe the next round won’t be tradable.

Just saying ?‍♂️
 

lethal

Old Alpha
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Posts
702
Avatar Name
lethal jewgirl saint
Something I think would be nice to see is more options for power fist on the way to around the level of great claw. It's way more acheivable with the codex out now, but it's still really rough for someone newer who has a goal to get there with barely any good grinder options. Also, I think that competitive events could use bigger level gaps potentially and new weapons should be available top end. How long has the base weapon DPS cap (excluding 0 eff weapons with horrible dpp like unique legend war axe and the Roman Ram Purifier that's on an inactive account) been roughly 120-130? There are a lot of people far beyond level 100 at this point, and that number is growing rapidly with the codex and how long a lot of players have been grinding. I think there should be more than just 2 guns for level 130+ (BP 130 and augmented stalker or whatever) There are a lot of people who are even 200+. I don't have a great suggestions I can think of for the event format to change is increasing the level gaps allowed in each category to allow the top end players to fill around 8-9 and drop the current players down a bit in their categories to increase competition and create a new cat 10 that could hold potentially some new weapons without screwing over every cat 10 player who wouldn't have said new high level weapons. Another option could be to cap the dps for cat 10 and introduce new very high level guns and equipment allowing for a better grinding game, but keeping the new weapons separate from events.
 

moondog

Prowler
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Posts
1,402
Location
Behind You
Society
Stockholm Syndrome
Avatar Name
Charley Moondog 1969
Lets have a bit of perspective. When I started playing, once you got above the sollomate opollo, there was a struggle to find (L) guns that you could use. I remember during my first year constantly searching for an adequate weapon. With the introduction of armatrix weapons this issue has been mainly negated and everything from level 10 up was suddenly available. The introduction of the CDF weapons gave an bigger offering to the community. Upgradeable UL weapons were also introduced, giving avatars the oppourtunity to farm towards an upgraded weapon. The mayhem token trader offers very nice efficiency weapons which are accessible to those to do well in events. This is sooo much different from when I started. I do not think we need more high efficiency weapons and I think it would be foolish for all avatars to have easy access to these weapons, they should be out of reach to most players and something for long term players to aspire to.
 
Last edited:

PrototypeGG

Guardian
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Posts
323
Also, what happens when the player base numbers go down again?
Price goes down on some gear NOT ALL !
Everyone who has descent amount of ped in this game and plays it often wants a high eff UL weapon .
I do think they should add more options ... like at least double the amount of good 60dps+ 80%+ eff weapons
Active player base went up 3-4 times and no matter how many ll leave or take a break during the summer the overall amount of active accounts sky rocketed in past 2 years. Many of those low lvl players 2 years ago atm hit lvl 60-70+ and yea ...gl bro getting a good deal on top tier weapons ...there are just too few in game vs players willing to spend dat amount of money for pixels !
 

PrototypeGG

Guardian
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Posts
323
Let me give you the other perspective !
In last 2 years i think at least 200 + seasson rings droped (might be wrong on this one but its min 170-180 rings)yet the price on rings is still little higher or same as pre Covid19 !
In last 2 years littery 0 good weapons were added to the game (some new were added from mayhem vendor thats all but those are limited in numbers etc)
The price jump of 2.0 weapons was around 35-40% overall if u take into account all the mats put in those t5 + Fen weapons.
It ll take a HUGE ammount of new weapons being added to the game for price of current weapons even to go down slitghtly unless we talk about the low tier 2.0 weapons :laugh:
For me this game needs more MU above all not more weapons :unsure: More weapons ll be nice but its just printing money and dust in the eyes :unsure:
 
Last edited:

wizz

Elite
Joined
May 29, 2005
Posts
4,038
Location
Brabant
Society
The Ministry
Avatar Name
Wizzina Wizz Pale Moon
...
Active player base went up 3-4 times ...


Just wondering, how or where do you get this info?

When I look at entropialife:
Hunting Rank: xxx of 3 908
hasn't it's always been around 4000?

If you say players base quadrupled, shouldn't this hunting rank figure also have quadrupled? :unsure:
 

PrototypeGG

Guardian
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Posts
323
I have seen it as low as 1800-2200 and as high as 6000 during last 2 events
This can be a right idicator or also very wrong . You get into that list just by hitting 1 global each month.
Better look at overall turnover for the planets if u want to see the bigger picture (you also have to track it your self for months and month ..no body has archived data waiting for you to analyze ! )
 

wizz

Elite
Joined
May 29, 2005
Posts
4,038
Location
Brabant
Society
The Ministry
Avatar Name
Wizzina Wizz Pale Moon
I have seen it as low as 1800-2200 and as high as 6000 during last 2 events
This can be a right idicator or also very wrong . You get into that list just by hitting 1 global each month.
Better look at overall turnover for the planets if u want to see the bigger picture (you also have to track it your self for months and month ..no body has archived data waiting for you to analyze ! )

ok, but then, how can you claim that the playerbase has tripled or quadrupled?
On what info do you base that?
 

Rocket192

Stalker
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,347
Location
Michigan
Society
Hunters Unlimited
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
ok, but then, how can you claim that the playerbase has tripled or quadrupled?
On what info do you base that?
It was in the annual report from MA. I think they said in 2020 the “average” online user count was up 115% or so and they “added” over 400% “new accounts” compared to prior years. So I guess we can say it doubled and leave it at that for now.
 

wizz

Elite
Joined
May 29, 2005
Posts
4,038
Location
Brabant
Society
The Ministry
Avatar Name
Wizzina Wizz Pale Moon
It was in the annual report from MA. I think they said in 2020 the “average” online user count was up 115% or so and they “added” over 400% “new accounts” compared to prior years. So I guess we can say it doubled and leave it at that for now.
ah ok. annual report from MA.
I remember a time when entropia had a million users!!
...on paper. :p

So, not quadrupled, nor tripled. And I highly doubt it even doubled, if you also take into account the players who left. But I could very well be wrong of course.

This does matter for your OP though since your claim that there should be more UL weapons was based on your assumption that the playerbase grew spectacular. Which I doubt is true. At least, not with those numbers you mentioned.

But looking at it from another perspective, the number of players who reached the levels you are referring to probably did triple or quadrupled.
So, for sure there is much more demand for 50~100 lvl weapons.
 

moondog

Prowler
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Posts
1,402
Location
Behind You
Society
Stockholm Syndrome
Avatar Name
Charley Moondog 1969
I am not convinced regarding the claims that the player base has quadrupled or even doubled for that matter. I regularly check EL and I have not seen that sort of increase. Before covid I think average hunter numbers was in the high 2000's low 3000's so it has only increased by 33% at the most for active hunters. Also, any new additional players would need at least a couple of years hard grinding before they are in a position to understand the game enough to even consider buying the sort of weapons being discussed here, which means the price is being driven by players who started before the alleged player base increase. One other comment I would make is that it was due to covid that I did my last weapon upgrade. I was stuck inside all the time but still working so there was little else to spend money on. I think this is the more likely reason for the increase in value of decent UL weapons. Now there is light at the end of the tunnel regarding covid and the fact is is now summer, I believe we will see the cost of the UL weapons drop to a more acceptable level
 

Rocket192

Stalker
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,347
Location
Michigan
Society
Hunters Unlimited
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
I am not convinced regarding the claims that the player base has quadrupled or even doubled for that matter. I regularly check EL and I have not seen that sort of increase. Before covid I think average hunter numbers was in the high 2000's low 3000's so it has only increased by 33% at the most for active hunters. Also, any new additional players would need at least a couple of years hard grinding before they are in a position to understand the game enough to even consider buying the sort of weapons being discussed here, which means the price is being driven by players who started before the alleged player base increase. One other comment I would make is that it was due to covid that I did my last weapon upgrade. I was stuck inside all the time but still working so there was little else to spend money on. I think this is the more likely reason for the increase in value of decent UL weapons. Now there is light at the end of the tunnel regarding covid and the fact is is now summer, I believe we will see the cost of the UL weapons drop to a more acceptable level

based on auction pages you could make the argument that the player count has dropped dramatically since january of this year, probably to do with summer in the northern hemisphere and also covid being kept at bay. but it still feels like there's not enough variety of UL weapons in EU. it's actually really difficult to find decent MF/melee options and the same 5-6 mid level rifles/pistols are getting old. (ep41, L2, spiritmk1, adj ml35, L4, maddox)
 

PreyNaika

Dominant
Joined
Jan 2, 2017
Posts
378
For those who still did not understand:

Price is driven by resellers

Because reseller a buys from reseller b and reseller b is selling to reseller c

Since noone of those resellers is able to use a weapon above lvl 10 those weapons simply collect dust in theyr storage
 

Spawn

Slayer
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Posts
7,933
Location
The Netherlands
Society
The Ministry
Avatar Name
Storm Spawn Bootcamp
Smart people can do well with (L) weapons just gotta know what to do with them. You can bulk purchase (L) weapons from a crafter getting a bigger discount. You can hunt bigger MU mobs. You can choose to only use them on events where the MU is often highest. (L) ain't meant to be a way to profit though just a way to get progress and get skills.
MA doesn't want too much high eff for you know for pretty obvious reasons. They set a standard eff for (L) armatrix weapons, this is the aprox eff that they want the avg player to run at. Anything above that should in theory lead to better returns. I also believe that if your looter is above that you will too start seeing better returns than the avg player does with (L) armatrix guns even if you're using lower eff.
Like I said before don't be too picky. You used imp m2870 for a while before the imk2 if I recall. That one is around 15k-ish nowadays I think. A 70% eff weapon with descent dps. What you're asking to fill that void will only happen when MA decide they wanna raise the avg player base eff again. I don't see this happening anytime soon I don't see them adding too many higher 70-80% eff UL guns either in the future, for example in the supposedly upcoming "TWEN" event. You can wait for years and hope for when that day comes or make a decision and stick with it.


Clearly we have different definitions of the average player. ;)
I am 40k in skill away from the skill in your signature. I still consider myself an average player. What do you consider to be an average player?
 

Vladington

Mature
Joined
Mar 2, 2018
Posts
30
Avatar Name
Jules Vladington Brookstream
I'd say they should add more and longer lasting (L) weapons instead. Supply and demand is out of whack making the (L) too expensive right now.
 

Evey

Elite
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Posts
2,615
Avatar Name
Eve Everglades
It's amps that we're lacking, on all weapons categories and there are plenty of weapons available, if you're serious about purchasing one and not fool around buying and selling every week....
 

NevadaJake

Stalker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Posts
1,929
Avatar Name
Drake Slade Corbett
High efficiency gear is luxury and should be priced luxury - its the fast way to better average returns and deserves to be priced accordingly - for everyone who doesnt want to pay premium there is looter profession skills -> thats the way i went and gained high average returns without using high efficiency gear.
This is good to read. Gives me hope :)
 

Aloisius

Stalker
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Posts
1,858
Location
Fort Fury
Society
Natural Born Killers
Avatar Name
Jo Aloisius Smith
AHA! This must be why MA can't/won't bring new players into the game!:)
 

Rocket192

Stalker
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,347
Location
Michigan
Society
Hunters Unlimited
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
AHA! This must be why MA can't/won't bring new players into the game!:)
apparently all they need is a pandemic to bring people in game. why spend money on marketing or development?
 

wizz

Elite
Joined
May 29, 2005
Posts
4,038
Location
Brabant
Society
The Ministry
Avatar Name
Wizzina Wizz Pale Moon
apparently all they need is a pandemic to bring people in game. why spend money on marketing or development?
hmmh, maybe it was MA who released the virus in Wuhan :unsure:
 

Sirhc

Elite
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Posts
4,425
Location
Temple of the Dark parts of the Mind
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Sirhc Xerogs Drakcah
Maybe MA needs to ramp up purging old inactive accounts. I have a feeling there are a lot of UL items just collecting virtual dust in storage. I've always been a proponent for UL items in EU and thought they could have better served the community by allowing more customization of UL equipment more so than what we have now but that ship has passed and L is here to stay.

In demand items tend to command a higher price, its always been like that to some extent. Although when I returned last year a lot of UL equipment had lower asking price than when I went on extended break. MA will continue to add more UL options but the higher end gear is rare by design. There are plenty of milestone moments on the horizon worth participating in to try and get something useful but there is no guarantee it will happen. Even if UL item drops increase resellers will snap those up in speculation that the price will rise via FOMO but they run the risk of getting caught with to much inventory and not enough buyers.

As John B Knight said high end UL items are a "luxury" in EU terms.

I get it though, its a pain when you want to complete your current kit or upgrade and choices are limited or prices extreme. I've been wrestling with upgrades for the past few months but that doesn't affect my state of play at the moment.
 

mastermesh

Mutated
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Posts
15,771
Location
FOMA SHOP # 22
Society
Silly Underground Family
Avatar Name
Maria Mesh
just make every UL crafted item in game upgradeable, with increase in buffs, damage, depth, etc. depending on what the item is. Old tier system made you put two items together and risk loosing one to get new tier. Compets made you smash two low level pets together to get a more powerful pet...

Just reimplement that system but instead of tiers give upgrades.... similar sort of idea to gorgon but easier... new blueprints... or just use refiner.... put two of same crafted weapon in refiner and get another with double damage or some interesting buff, etc.
 
Top