Question: Most important issues to fix in Entropia for UE5?
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Crabby
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Where you claim to be getting 100% drop rate for 5+ minutes at a time... There are some clear inconsistencies between in the time between kills. Likely the result of lines filtered out that did not meet the "You received tier" criteria. I'm going to assume you did not realize those discrepancies. That you blindly came to the assumption based on your own misinterpretation of your own evidence. As I suspected it is nothing but an exaggerated claim.
Hours are separated into 60, 1 minute intervals. At a quick glance you've received tier comps (of any kind) on around half of 60 possible, 1 minute intervals.... in about 50 lines provided within your evidence. Already not a good look. You cant identify any definitive time frame. I don't suppose you want to excuse this by claiming the waves are now random lol. You had around 40 mins, then like an hour, then 20, then 30 then like 2... It is all over the fucking place.
The problem with your evidence is that it is incomplete. As a result it doesn't help to identify possible breaks in gameplay, It omits information which then creates a misleading narrative to anyone that doesn't look closer into the information. It doesn't prove others have not looted tier comps throughout your 'dry' period (and I will admit this will be hard to prove). Finally, I'm not saying you did this, but it opens the door to the possibility of you omitting lines undetected intentionally. You need to present a raw and a much larger sample if you want to be taken seriously. As it stands your evidence is again, inconclusive. And I'm not about to go kill molochs to try and find out if leprechauns exist.
All this managed to show me is that you aren't really paying attention to your own discrepancies. So bring that to me, and then we can talk.
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Just wow
such a level of denial
Crabby
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Just wow
Ahaha Y'all the type to end up under a purple rag wearing black and white nike decade sneakers.
He can show a substantial amount of raw data, but he won't. The extent you people go through to act like you got some kinda deep knowledge is pathetic. No evidence, no nothing. Not even a logical explanation for quite the theory. The more and more I hear the more I begin to understand why everyone thinks the people who play this game are complete nut cases. Wave theory is complete fantasy, like it or not.
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He said he can show more logs if you want, I’m sure he will.
Ferial
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I doubt it, since there is no point. Regardless of the evidence provided, there will ALWAYS be a way to invalidate it based on beliefs.
Since there is nothing to gain from further interaction, I doubt we'll see it.
Well........ going over what Crabby wrote about the shown set of data, it looks like the time to kill is usually about 30s, but there are also gaps of about 1 min. So, I'd ask, was there a mob inbetween without giving any tier comps on those occasions, or was it a mob maturity of about double the 30s ones that took 1 min to kill?
"Nothing but an exaggerated claim" is interesting, as it implies the whole thing is being thrown out due to the possible exaggeration. However, even if that is true, the underlying tendency of that data clearly shows a massive 'irregularity', if the killing continued during the gaps in tier drops, that is.
This is why fuller data sets are often required, so that you don't get a bit stuck on unknowns by only looking at what is being presented.
It's what I see in other areas too. A person sees a mistake (or potential one) in what is claimed, and then believes none of the claim at all, although both sides can have areas of being right. I also mentioned the phase of under one hour above being a counter-example (possible falsification) to the claim even in the selected data. I personally would wish to use a few more pages of data to see useful info on the variation in waves timings, not dismiss the whole idea completely.
I also understand if MA devs (who know more about how it works from the inside) don't want to read through reams of what players write and suggest to first sort out levels of correctness, then feasibility, then desire to actually implement a suggestion, etc., but the survey shows loot waves are a subject the players here would like to see addressed!
"Nothing but an exaggerated claim" is interesting, as it implies the whole thing is being thrown out due to the possible exaggeration. However, even if that is true, the underlying tendency of that data clearly shows a massive 'irregularity', if the killing continued during the gaps in tier drops, that is.
This is why fuller data sets are often required, so that you don't get a bit stuck on unknowns by only looking at what is being presented.
It's what I see in other areas too. A person sees a mistake (or potential one) in what is claimed, and then believes none of the claim at all, although both sides can have areas of being right. I also mentioned the phase of under one hour above being a counter-example (possible falsification) to the claim even in the selected data. I personally would wish to use a few more pages of data to see useful info on the variation in waves timings, not dismiss the whole idea completely.
I also understand if MA devs (who know more about how it works from the inside) don't want to read through reams of what players write and suggest to first sort out levels of correctness, then feasibility, then desire to actually implement a suggestion, etc., but the survey shows loot waves are a subject the players here would like to see addressed!
Droops
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Hmm and how are you any different ?
- MindArk has been monitoring the community discussions concerning so-called 'loot waves' and will implement changes in the Loot 2.0 and subsequent Version Updates that will address this issue by improving the distribution of resources and items, with the goal of ensuring that loot opportunities are more interesting, dynamic and fair for all participants.
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-wave-loot-theory-what-the-heck-is-it.249689/
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forum/index.php?threads/taking-advantage-of-loot-waves.249608/
Crabby
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He wont, it would be too much work for him to tamper with. So he's gonna leave it as that.
This was essentially a counter to people telling me to open my eyes. It is clear to see in this instance certain people are only opening their eyes when it concerns details that support their narrative, while completely ignoring others that dont. If this person was so adamant about loot waves being a thing, he would be inclined to kill as fast as possible during supposed loot wave. However, as we can see there are irregular gaps between mobs killed. I don't suppose he gets up to get something to drink in the middle of a loot wave?
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Is the term angle-shooting when you try to get information out of someone in dubious ways? I wouldn't bother providing it either. Sometimes a poker table can be like that. But thank you for sharing what you did. My criticism was about not being 100% accurate in your recollection, but some people seem to think losing 7:1 is great because they scored the final goal! Maybe that is a deeper significance of 'virtual reality'?
Crabby
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And that would be yet another excuse available for him if he chooses to go that route, which is fine. If it is his pride he is concerned about its in his best interest to use that excuse. Because a larger sample of raw will not be in his favor. The most he can do now is say "I got proof but I'm not going to show it to you despite already saying I would". I'm 100% okay with either outcome
It's actually insane the amount of mental gymnastics you put yourself through as if the mount of proof provided in Droops links wasn't enough proof. Why on earth would I offer to upload my logs in the first place if I wasn't willing to share them.And that would be yet another excuse available for him if he chooses to go that route, which is fine. If it is his pride he is concerned about its in his best interest to use that excuse. Because a larger sample of raw will not be in his favor. The most he can do now is say "I got proof but I'm not going to show it to you despite already saying I would". I'm 100% okay with either outcome
Download link to the combat logs of almost a month at Molochs: https://easyupload.io/1t5x5e
Just incase you have zero clue how to navigate logs I'll include some more screenshots of obvious proof that tier components drop in waves
"Hes editing the logs to make it look like waves"
Sure here's my entropia tally exported logs with the exact same drop information are you going to tell me these are tampered with too? Give me a date and I'll upload some more entropia tally logs for that day upon request
10-16-2022
General Session name,October 2022 Run created at,2022-10-16 10:41:19 Run time (seconds),91170 Kills/Loot events,2309 Offensive stats Damage inflicted,11973607.8 Hits,122758 Misses,13533 Critical hits,9791 Critical damage inflicted,2472904.8 Total attacks,136291 Hit rate,90.0705% Critical hit rat...
entropia_tally_run_2022-10-17_131221
General Session name,October 2022 Run created at,2022-10-17 13:12:21 Run time (seconds),25564 Kills/Loot events,764 Offensive stats Damage inflicted,4261132.3 Hits,36457 Misses,4154 Critical hits,2858 Critical damage inflicted,868022.2 Total attacks,40611 Hit rate,89.7712% Critical hit rate,7.8394%
entropia_tally_run_2022-10-20_023144
General Session name,October 2022 Run created at,2022-10-20 02:31:44 Run time (seconds),92764 Kills/Loot events,2571 Offensive stats Damage inflicted,13689035.3 Hits,115530 Misses,12782 Critical hits,9086 Critical damage inflicted,2937082.5 Total attacks,128312 Hit rate,90.0383% Critical hit rat...
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Even a fucking gif! How anyone can deny waves exist is just crazy. Sure you can deny that people know exactly when they will start as a glance at the log will show some variance, our point is not that the waves are at an exact hour, we’re just saying they exist."Hes editing the logs to make it look like waves"
Sure here's my entropia tally exported logs with the exact same drop information are you going to tell me these are tampered with too? Give me a date and I'll upload some more entropia tally logs for that day upon request
10-16-2022
General Session name,October 2022 Run created at,2022-10-16 10:41:19 Run time (seconds),91170 Kills/Loot events,2309 Offensive stats Damage inflicted,11973607.8 Hits,122758 Misses,13533 Critical hits,9791 Critical damage inflicted,2472904.8 Total attacks,136291 Hit rate,90.0705% Critical hit rat...docs.google.com
entropia_tally_run_2022-10-17_131221
General Session name,October 2022 Run created at,2022-10-17 13:12:21 Run time (seconds),25564 Kills/Loot events,764 Offensive stats Damage inflicted,4261132.3 Hits,36457 Misses,4154 Critical hits,2858 Critical damage inflicted,868022.2 Total attacks,40611 Hit rate,89.7712% Critical hit rate,7.8394%
entropia_tally_run_2022-10-20_023144
General Session name,October 2022 Run created at,2022-10-20 02:31:44 Run time (seconds),92764 Kills/Loot events,2571 Offensive stats Damage inflicted,13689035.3 Hits,115530 Misses,12782 Critical hits,9086 Critical damage inflicted,2937082.5 Total attacks,128312 Hit rate,90.0383% Critical hit rat...
Jade Draconis
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why is everyone arguing with a troll i dont get it.....if they dont believe waves dont exist let them be. feeding him doesnt do anyone good. ive had him on iggy ever since he shit posted on one of my mining posts.....some people cant be helped...
The main goal when arguing publicly about it is so that on the off chance someone actually believes any of the junk he says, I could hopefully help them out. In no way would I ever entertain this guy privately.why is everyone arguing with a troll i dont get it.....if they dont believe waves dont exist let them be. feeding him doesnt do anyone good. ive had him on iggy ever since he shit posted on one of my mining posts.....some people cant be helped...
Mega
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Looks like #8 Remove Nanocubes from TT is taken care of
I want Mindark to take a long hard look
at #7 and see why many 'legit' societies have been decimated by their lack of action in regard to it.
Crabby
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Sure here's my entropia tally exported logs with the exact same drop information are you going to tell me these are tampered with too? Give me a date and I'll upload some more entropia tally logs for that day upon request
I looked through it, you ever hear of the word sample bias? Thats the game you tried to pull in the beginning with that first screenshot. Your additional documentation shows no indication of wave theory being a thing. You can post more if you want, I don't care from when.
Again, adding to the baseless theory to try and make it hold up. If you throw dice enough times and document the results, you will notice dry periods 'waves' with certain numbers too. I don't suppose they implemented such thing into the dice. Not only can you not identify, or prove them, but you make excuses as to why. With each excuse only helping to suggest it is random.
Seppo69
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You dude should maybe think few more times what you are saying.
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Seppo69
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Most important thing imo would be to make tt-returns way better for smaller looter levels. 1k ped lasting 8 hours with below avg dps (70) and avg eff (61) on 2ped mob should not be a miracle even with lvl 30 looter.
I know it's poor looter but it cost a lot of money to reach even that. Even though I chase MU most of the time with relatively small mobs and have got pretty nice amount of MU, it has been way too expensive.
It's pushing players away pretty hard. In long term players would just cycle more and depo even more if cost to play was more reasonable. Atm many people take long breaks or quit just because how ridiculously low returns can be for ages.
I know it's poor looter but it cost a lot of money to reach even that. Even though I chase MU most of the time with relatively small mobs and have got pretty nice amount of MU, it has been way too expensive.
It's pushing players away pretty hard. In long term players would just cycle more and depo even more if cost to play was more reasonable. Atm many people take long breaks or quit just because how ridiculously low returns can be for ages.
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One of my hopes for virtual worlds is that with education, understanding, competence and social cohesion failing all over the place, virtual worlds can help provide especially young people with the tools for learning maths, languages, interaction, fair play etc..
Most people get the Monty Hall problem wrong when they first encounter it, so I would love, for example, MA to implement a mission with the same logic for a small reward, possibly a daily, to help 'fix' wrong understanding in practice. A lot of EU feels unexciting, especially with F bashing. I would like MA to fix the low brainpower requirements somewhat, otherwise known maybe as creating more of a mental and skills challenge in UE5.
Maybe too optimistically, I'd like to see platforms in parallel to the real world, where scenarios can be played out. Many of the board games people used to play were good at teaching strategy, forward thinking i.e. planning etc.. Ultimately I'd like MA to not only fix things that are not working within EU, but create true learning environments that can actually be advertised as such for real world learning.
Some people will possibly never truly learn, but hopefully more people will know what knowledge to follow and what not to.
Most people get the Monty Hall problem wrong when they first encounter it, so I would love, for example, MA to implement a mission with the same logic for a small reward, possibly a daily, to help 'fix' wrong understanding in practice. A lot of EU feels unexciting, especially with F bashing. I would like MA to fix the low brainpower requirements somewhat, otherwise known maybe as creating more of a mental and skills challenge in UE5.
Maybe too optimistically, I'd like to see platforms in parallel to the real world, where scenarios can be played out. Many of the board games people used to play were good at teaching strategy, forward thinking i.e. planning etc.. Ultimately I'd like MA to not only fix things that are not working within EU, but create true learning environments that can actually be advertised as such for real world learning.
Some people will possibly never truly learn, but hopefully more people will know what knowledge to follow and what not to.
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Hi Seppo, I've not put a like on your post above, because I only partly agree. I think the "journey" is becoming too long that players must undergo. In many systems people pay to gain experience. As a business, MA must obviously try and get income from most players, but to have the ambition to become one of the few making a profit by being really clever or entrepreneurial is becoming more and more unrealistic/costly for new and older players alike.
This is one of the core problems that I think MA needs to fix when essentially relaunching the game in UE5. I've never been into fishing, but I believe anglers know or learn when to let the fish get a bit further away on the line and when to reel it in again slowly. It may be that MA is getting this badly wrong with us, and we, as fish, are able to simply cut ourselves free, and do so, in the action of quitting.
However, I accept it is tricky to regulate our losses, which we partly inflict on ourselves, and then do not feel has been worth it.
We are also here for entertainment, thus most people are reasonably happy to spend some money in return for 'a good time'. I don't know if MA has lost sight of this, if our expectations have changed, or if the journey is indeed currently simply too long to achieve personal goals in EU...
This is one of the core problems that I think MA needs to fix when essentially relaunching the game in UE5. I've never been into fishing, but I believe anglers know or learn when to let the fish get a bit further away on the line and when to reel it in again slowly. It may be that MA is getting this badly wrong with us, and we, as fish, are able to simply cut ourselves free, and do so, in the action of quitting.
However, I accept it is tricky to regulate our losses, which we partly inflict on ourselves, and then do not feel has been worth it.
We are also here for entertainment, thus most people are reasonably happy to spend some money in return for 'a good time'. I don't know if MA has lost sight of this, if our expectations have changed, or if the journey is indeed currently simply too long to achieve personal goals in EU...
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As someone who experienced the impact of looter levels going from 1 all the way to currently lvl 94, I can agree with you that new players get shafted really hard between having low looter level + most of the time mediocre efficiency + paying MU for Limited gear. It's an awful feeling and I wish MA either made Looter levels benefits more weighted towards the beginning levels or just reduced the impact of looter levels and increased the baseline TT returns.
The 1k PED lasting 8 hours is a bankroll management issue though, 1k PED is not close to enough to be comfortably hunting 2 PED cost mobs. I've had runs where I'm at 80% TT return over 12000 kill events on 4 PED mobs even with 90+ looter/80+ efficiency. You need to be able to afford any potential dry streaks that come your way. If you're worrying about your ped card after a short 8 hour run it's definitely a sign to hunt lower mobs. Difference between 30 looter and 100 looter over a 10k PED cycle is what like 490~ PED? if we go by Zho's estimates.
Legends
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I've always thought that there should be different types of gameplay in EU, as I expressed here in this poll. Some people, like you and me for example want content that is more stimulating and challenging then the simple grind fest that EU has clearly become. I think that's why I went the route I went; because I had to really strategise and plan where I was headed and how I would get there, there were so many problems to solve along the way, a lot of opportunities to give up. That was the only path I saw that I felt would be challenging enough for me to even engage in.
I think what you describe properly belongs in either Crafting, or Mining, or a bit of both. Problem solving and strategizing go well with resource procurement and manufacturing; as Elon has been quoted as saying “Those who have not actually been involved in manufacturing just have no idea how painful and difficult it is. It's like you've got to eat a lot of glass.” So it goes without saying that there should be a difference in outcome for indivdual Crafters, as opposed to this one machine - same result for everyone type of manufacturing setup.. It's too generic and mind-numbing.
Legends
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So what we're saying here is that there shouldn't be an upfront capital cost to EU, because that seems to be kind of the way it's setup right now.
Do you think MA can really change that model without giving a big middle-finger to those hundreds of uber hunters that have been here for years and have invested large sums to be able to engage the content at the level they are now?
That wasn't what I was saying at all, my suggestion was to lessen the impact of low looter levels not outright remove it as there is already an insane barrier of entry for people looking to get into hunting seriously. You still need to invest money into proper gear, a proper bankroll, leveling up looter levels, figuring out what is profitable or not through experimentation.
Every uber and the economy as a whole would benefit from a more active playerbase due to lower barrier of entry so I don't see why this would be a big middle-finger to them as they still fully benefit from their looter levels. Also I feel like the definition of what an "uber hunter" is, has been so blurred that I'm not even sure who you refer to when you bring them up.
Edit: Lets also keep in mind, a lot of these "uber hunters" already had the foundation for decent looter skills from participating in Loot 1.0 with a lot of their secondary skills which provide benefit to looter profs already skilled up. It's not very fair to compare veterans to new hunters in that regard because as I understand it, MA just straight up took a majority cut of the players returns in loot 2.0 and just threw it back to them as looter profession "benefits". The old veterans didn't have to start fresh with level 1 looter profs, they already had a jump start.
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Legends
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Everybody's gonna have their own defenition that suits them but for me, anyone above level 100 is still an uber (even though there's more and more above level 200 now and I should probably revise my definition of it).
I'm glad you see it that way but some (I know at least one) don't really feel that way, and I'm sure that if MindArk was to suddenly make the cost and effort of leveling up to level 100 only 1/20th of what it was when they were doing it, would probably think "what's the point" and quit because they'd feel betrayed; all that time and money invested, and now that they are about to reap the rewards, the goal post is moved yet again..
Very few people know this but some years back, an MMORPG called Shroud of the Avatar was released, they didn't go full RCE but they wanted to embrace it. However every month they released new and better items then the ones they sold in the previous months and people left in droves. I mean what's the point right? Why buy into something that is guaranteed to lose value at a high rate of speed. That game is barely hanging on now even with the game now being a free download and totally free to play...
So, if MindArk makes skilling up the levels less costly, that devalues people's accumulated skills doesn't it? Wouldn't it have the same end result?
I saw, in all of the time I've been here, 2 very specific instances of massive value destruction in EU and I am still totally flabbergasted that there was no revolt of any kind, but I guess, they were, first of all well disguised (and could have been unintended) and effected professions with lower participation, i.e. Healing and Crafting. But if MA does a massive value destruction to Hunting skills, you could very well see a revolt imo.
And that's exactly my point, MA took action to "protect" the ones that had invested significant sums to skill up already, by designing a Looter profession based on skills that these guys had already been accumulating. But they absolutely deserved it, it wasn't cheap to play EU before Loot 2.0, you think it's expensive now, I'd contend it was worse, the dry periods were longer and the lows were lower, so if you were serious about skilling up, you paid a lot more for your skills back then.
So anyway, I'm not saying not to reduce the impact of lower looter skills for newer players, but this has to be balanced to make it fair and to avoid losing a bunch of people because they feel betrayed by MA.
And another option is to just make it so people can play at the budget they are confortable with. Right now it's hard because there's not enough fun content at the lower levels. I think if there was some fun Raids (similar to RDI Secret Lab for example) at say level 15-25, a gamer could just keep on doing those for as long as he wanted if he felt he couldn't really afford to play at the higher levels. And if you had that on every planet, that'd be plenty of content to keep that player around long enough to maybe convince him/her to invest more in the game. That line of thinking is really the reason for #5 in the poll above btw.