Mothership repairing is unrealistic...

[Xane]

I'm sure there are people out there that find repairing ships to be fun and rewarding and believe me there is a time a place for it. My problem with the current repair system is that it is too unrealistic to believe that a ships best defense is it's ability to repair it's hull/armor or whatever faster than it is being destroyed. I can see repairs slowing down the ships demise or keeping it above critical levels but currently because of the skill levels of it's crew a ship can stay at full health while being continually assaulted. That just doesn't make sense, if I'm wrong tell me why.

 

[John B Knight]

Ever seen the Borg ships in action ? Look around in scifi literature and you will find lots of samples of nanite technologie and the possibility of selfrepairs of ships and how they can 'outheal' huge amounts of damage.

This is actually a very possibilty.


Besides of this a quad to an vastly upgraded mothership is like a softair gun against a battleship seaside, you would need a huge amount of guns to do noticeable damage and even if you manged to do a dent in its hull the crew surely would be able to repair that faster then you can make another and thats already in current days.

 

[Kimmi]

Ever seen the Borg ships in action ? Look around in scifi literature and you will find lots of samples of nanite technologie and the possibility of selfrepairs of ships and how they can 'outheal' huge amounts of damage.

This is actually a very possibilty.


Besides of this a quad to an vastly upgraded mothership is like a softair gun against a battleship seaside, you would need a huge amount of guns to do noticeable damage and even if you manged to do a dent in its hull the crew surely would be able to repair that faster then you can make another and thats already in current days.

What he said!


...and dont mess with my repair skilling

 

[Xane]

I would be totally fine with the idea that the difference between surviving an attack or not depends on the skills of the crew. It just seems that right now there is no balanced between the amount of damage/cost a kismet laser is capable of and the amount of repairs/cost that it takes to nullify that laser shot. Although I will admit to being ignorant of the specs for the repairs as far as the amount of repairs per sec and costs. I only know how much damage I can produce and I know what it cost me per shot and I can't imagine it is costing my target an equal amount to counter me?

 

[Xane]

Besides of this a quad to an vastly upgraded mothership is like a softair gun against a battleship seaside, you would need a huge amount of guns to do noticeable damage and even if you manged to do a dent in its hull the crew surely would be able to repair that faster then you can make another and thats already in current days.

Exactly what I am trying to say there really is no counter to the mothership in terms of fire power. I feel like I have a bee bee gun when I'm trying to shoot you down. Where's the fun in that? Give me a bigger gun/missile/laser/bad word/anything!

 

[Neil Stockton]

I would be totally fine with the idea that the difference between surviving an attack or not depends on the skills of the crew. It just seems that right now there is no balanced between the amount of damage/cost a kismet laser is capable of and the amount of repairs/cost that it takes to nullify that laser shot. Although I will admit to being ignorant of the specs for the repairs as far as the amount of repairs per sec and costs. I only know how much damage I can produce and I know what it cost me per shot and I can't imagine it is costing my target an equal amount to counter me?

You're not taking into account the cost of upgrade.

 

[Xane]

You're not taking into account the cost of upgrade.

You are right I'm not taking into account the cost's of their upgrades but it all comes back to balance. If the motherships have an option to invest peds into upgrades to protect them selves then where are my options to invest into bigger/more guns?

 

[John B Knight]

I would be totally fine with the idea that the difference between surviving an attack or not depends on the skills of the crew. It just seems that right now there is no balanced between the amount of damage/cost a kismet laser is capable of and the amount of repairs/cost that it takes to nullify that laser shot. Although I will admit to being ignorant of the specs for the repairs as far as the amount of repairs per sec and costs. I only know how much damage I can produce and I know what it cost me per shot and I can't imagine it is costing my target an equal amount to counter me?

Agreed that pvp attacking costs should be lower (in the range of 1-10% what they currently are - solution could be a hunting / pvp attack switch at guns that players can manually activate - if in pvp mode weapons wont do any damage to mobs and have attack ranges/costs that are balanced for pvp and if in hunting mode weapons will do damage to mobs and have attack ranges/costs balanced for mob hunts), however repairs should always be way cheaper then attacks otherwise i could already see ships held for ransom threatening them to blow them up consistently until they pay a fee.

 

[John B Knight]

Exactly what I am trying to say there really is no counter to the mothership in terms of fire power. I feel like I have a bee bee gun when I'm trying to shoot you down. Where's the fun in that? Give me a bigger gun/missile/laser/bad word/anything!

An interceptor is an light and fast spacecraft ment to quickly charge in and 'intercept' another spacecrafts actions locate them , hold them back until the real attacking force arrives bombers, destroyers, cruisers, etc.
You will just have to wait on mindark to finally bring those other ships into life just as much as current spacecraft owners badly wait for their exteneded weaponry and shields.
This is the other reason why it wont make sence to upgrade quads to much, they are not build to last in a real spacefight - the day when mothrships get all their promised upgrades they will most likely be able to dish out above 8000dps easily.

It surely would be way more unrealistic to have torpedo launchers mounted on a quad

 

[Xane]

Agreed that pvp attacking costs should be lower (in the range of 1-10% what they currently are - solution could be a hunting / pvp attack switch at guns that players can manually activate - if in pvp mode weapons wont do any damage to mobs and have attack ranges/costs that are balanced for pvp and if in hunting mode weapons will do damage to mobs and have attack ranges/costs balanced for mob hunts), however repairs should always be way cheaper then attacks otherwise i could already see ships held for ransom threatening them to blow them up consistently until they pay a fee.

I don't even mind the costs of pvp, I wouldn't even mid if they were higher. I think if you are going to engage someone there should always be a risk and consequences. What I'm crying about is the lack of options on the pirate side. I'll pay more ped's for more damaging ammo, I'll buy more expensive guns. But they don't exist, only one ship and one gun

 

[Xane]

An interceptor is an light and fast spacecraft ment to quickly charge in and 'intercept' another spacecrafts actions locate them , hold them back until the real attacking force arrives bombers, destroyers, cruisers, etc.

It surely would be way more unrealistic to have torpedo launchers mounted on a quad

Don't misunderstand me I don't think a single quad should be able to take down an upgraded/manned mothership. But there should be another option and don't even get me started on the scale of our ships. The Normandie should be about 20x bigger than it is. Well maybe 5x.

 

[John B Knight]

Don't misunderstand me I don't think a single quad should be able to take down an upgraded/manned mothership. But there should be another option and don't even get me started on the scale of our ships. The Normandie should be about 20x bigger than it is. Well maybe 5x.

Agreed i personally think every mothership should have the same dimensions as the ringtorne mothership which floats over that middle island down on calypso. Those dimensions (2.2km length) are taken into account for gunning ranges anyways already they just need to be displayed accordingly.

But in regards to what a single quad should be able to do or not, in my opinion quads should never have become that common then they currently are - they should have stayed powerfull fast and rare interceptors and sleipnirs should have stayed the main small and cheap spaceshuttles.
At the current costs of quads you could buy thousands for the same amount you need to get and heavily upgraded mothership ready - so talking of attacking power i think those are very much in line for the peds you need for them.

 

[Xane]

So how much peds does it take to get a heavily armed MS?

 

[John B Knight]

So how much peds does it take to get a heavily armed MS?

Depends on how much SI you would consider a mothership heavily upgraded and how high of a level in VSE the person is doing the upgrades, we also dont know how expensive shields or torpedos will be or if there will be costs when we get drones - i have doe my calculations based on what current mthership guns can do and those sparse infos about upgrades to come and put them into comparison which got me to assume that motherships possibly might be upgradeable to 1,000,000 SI or more if that holds truth then it will be very possible to put more money in upgrades then average landareas cost.

 

[Xane]

I think the differences in price and capabilities between the sleip and the quad are very reasonable. But then you jump to privateer and then mothership. These gaps are too big.

 

[John B Knight]

I think the differences in price and capabilities between the sleip and the quad are very reasonable. But then you jump to privateer and then mothership. These gaps are too big.

You are comparing low end L weapons with the by mindark introduced highend weapon which they themself called 'Titan of Space' and if you look in other games and compare the power of those motherships with what we currently have then all i can say is we are still way behind and that i definately can envision an fully upgraded mothership taking on a fleet of hundreds of smaller spacecrafts in a distant future and if we get high activity in space.

 

[remontoire]

I have no real interest in shooting at motherships or space pvp in general, but i find it weird there is just one gun (sith sib starting at 0) for quads - surely there should be also kismet mk 2 and mk3 that want higher levels but also do more damage, possibly also more damage per pec?

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

Guys



I noticed this mob yesterday

"Atrox"


Havn't seen it at any of the worls Zoo's..... What the fuck is this?

------------------------------------------------------------

You see guys, if we start tot question the things in game it will all fall apart...

MA clearly wants mothership owners to be happy and 'undestroyable', won't change unless MA changes their mind...

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

MA clearly wants mothership owners to be happy and 'undestroyable', won't change unless MA changes their mind...

Or they simply want to give MS owners more time to upgrade and prepare (and the space population to grow) before adding larger weapons

 

[John B Knight]

Guys



I noticed this mob yesterday

"Atrox"


Havn't seen it at any of the worls Zoo's..... What the fuck is this?

------------------------------------------------------------

You see guys, if we start tot question the things in game it will all fall apart...

MA clearly wants mothership owners to be happy and 'undestroyable', won't change unless MA changes their mind...

Noone is undestroyable in pvp, but you just dont enter the pvp ring with an opalo and no armor and expect to have a chance against someone in full pvp armor with a massive rocket launcher - even if you flood in in dozends.

Currently motherships and privateers cant catch each other due to having the same subwarpspeed and mindark having set max speed limits instead of acceleration values and relativistic speed limits. But when higher subwarp drives get discovered and installed we will see if pirates see their chances.

 

[Xpl0jd]

You are right I'm not taking into account the cost's of their upgrades but it all comes back to balance. If the motherships have an option to invest peds into upgrades to protect them selves then where are my options to invest into bigger/more guns?

u have the same option that we do..

just buy a MS and upgrade..........

 

[Xane]

u have the same option that we do..

just buy a MS and upgrade..........

Of course I have the option of buying a MS but is that really a viable option for the masses. That's what you want isn't it, lots more people in the game? No one is going to buy a MS in order to join the space population.

There is nothing to do in space with a sleip and most people are scared of fighting so they just use the quads as taxi's.

I keep seeing the mention of the space population and the hope that it will grow. Why would it grow? There is really not much to do in space besides shoot someone, get shot, or leave. Nothing is being added to do in space either, besides mobs and not that many people do that anyway because if they were I would be shooting them

I'm asking for some balance in space and you should be too because the next time MA decides on making some big changes in space it might be very unbalanced for you.

 

[wildcuts]

Just to spice up the discussion - I can see a future where you can't log out in space anymore to be transported safely. In such a future we would see pirate raids on mother ships, now a rare sight (due to most pirats beeing whimps and lazy whiners). A decent pirate fleet has a chance against a regular MS crew with let's say 3 RK-5 repairers at each station. What about a full crew and 10 MS guns armed (with gun range fixed) and 20 Slasher's attacking (the single pilot combat ships of the future, 300 dam / shot / 55 shots per min. with triphased photon guns)

I think we all should prepare for such a future. So, let's keep repair skilling

 

[John B Knight]

I'm asking for some balance in space and you should be too because the next time MA decides on making some big changes in space it might be very unbalanced for you.

Dont try to balance something when you can only see a percentage of the whole. We are in beta-space most of the ships that were planned are not yet ingame, mothership / highlevel content is not yet ingame, space las and landgrabs are not yet ingame, space mining is not yet ingame, warp mines are not yet fullfilling their purpose, logged out travels are still passing by. It definately makes no sence to balance the weakest and the strongest spacecrafts against each other when the whole lot of classes in the middle are still missing.
Quads are just not meant to be an all alone attacking force against motherships, they will have to be part of a fleet consisting of several spacecrafts of different classes when it comes to it.

 

[exsolvo]

Of course I have the option of buying a MS but is that really a viable option for the masses. That's what you want isn't it, lots more people in the game? No one is going to buy a MS in order to join the space population.

There is nothing to do in space with a sleip and most people are scared of fighting so they just use the quads as taxi's.

I keep seeing the mention of the space population and the hope that it will grow. Why would it grow? There is really not much to do in space besides shoot someone, get shot, or leave. Nothing is being added to do in space either, besides mobs and not that many people do that anyway because if they were I would be shooting them

I'm asking for some balance in space and you should be too because the next time MA decides on making some big changes in space it might be very unbalanced for you.

Highlighted the problem in your logic, since one of the problems space won't grow is due to people (like you?) who shoot others who are hunting space mobs.

There's a saying that fits your whinge to the letter "Don't shit where you eat"

 

[Alainax]

.... is too unrealistic to believe that a ships best defense is it's ability to repair it's hull/armor or whatever faster than it is being destroyed. I can see repairs slowing down the ships demise or keeping it above critical levels but currently because of the skill levels of it's crew a ship can stay at full health while being continually assaulted. That just doesn't make sense, if I'm wrong tell me why.

According to Entropedia an RK-20 will do roughly 43.31 heals per second, A kismet will do 108.7 dmg per second.

If you have 2 repairers per section, the kismet will reduce the SI by 22 per second. ( ish) If each section has 25000+si.. this means it will take about 19 minutes before the ship will suffer.

Add in one more repairer, even on an rk5 @ 14.43 heals per second, this time scale is more than doubled. Add in one more on rk-20, the heals out-weigh the dmg.

Every shot on the kismet is costing 40pec.

With some of the bigger crew having way more repair crew on each station at times, the figures become more dismal for an attacking quad.

(ofc presuming quad vs repair crew - not taking into account pilot+gunner team etc interventions)

IMO repair crew are invaluable to the success of a mothership


But as you said, its unrealistic to think that this is a ships best defence. Repair crew are an intergral part of the bigger picture. The ability of the pilot, the strength of the gunner team, the rapid response of the runners, the size of the SI, how well the crew listen to each other and work together, the instructions of the captain and commander - every single thing must be taken into consideration in terms of defence and a succesful offence.

A ships best defence isnt one factor alone - but many of them.


Anyway, the thread has moved on now I see, to more about the gap between quads and MS. Bear in mind this gap was not always there, ( and not there for all still ). MS who are missing key factors like skilled crew or SI will still be a target for hungry pirates, just like it was back in the begining when we were all starting out.

Quads VS MS entices MS to upgrade, it encourags them to build better, stronger defences - this is a good thing for everyone, be it the miners who mine the gold, or the repair crew who get bigger and stronger day after day.

Its the space race I see your point that you feel its unfair as you have no means of being able to upgrade also, however space is in its infancy, there are still many more middle sized ships to be released between the quads and up to the MS. I think its un-realistic to presume that a MS no1 enemy was intended to be a quad.

 

[Dusk]

According to Entropedia an RK-20 will do roughly 43.31 heals per second, A kismet will do 108.7 dmg per second.

If you have 2 repairers per section, the kismet will reduce the SI by 22 per second. ( ish) If each section has 25000+si.. this means it will take about 19 minutes before the ship will suffer.

Add in one more repairer, even on an rk5 @ 14.43 heals per second, this time scale is more than doubled. Add in one more on rk-20, the heals out-weigh the dmg.

Every shot on the kismet is costing 40pec.

With some of the bigger crew having way more repair crew on each station at times, the figures become more dismal for an attacking quad.

Just to muddy the waters slightly, the Quads have two slots thus enabling a Kismet and a Heavy Porcupine to be attached. Although a Porcupine does less damage and has a shorter range, I understand it can be used simultaneously with the Kismet if there is someone in the passanger seat.

I'm not sure what this does to the figures above.

 

[mastermesh]

Exactly what I am trying to say there really is no counter to the mothership in terms of fire power. I feel like I have a bee bee gun when I'm trying to shoot you down. Where's the fun in that? Give me a bigger gun/missile/laser/bad word/anything!

Maybe MA should create a counter... Create a gun that can go on ships and be upgraded with SI similar to the way that ships are upgraded... Do the same with the mines... For every 1k ped added in increase either the damage or range... or in the case of mines, the blast radius and/or the damage. Drop one million bucks in to gun and it can one shot kill any ship, but you have to keep pumping in cash in to it since it will be L... and/or the damage amplifier will only be on ammo, and you have to buy a new type of ammo for it... cost of the ammo for this missle is 5k ped per missle or something?

 

[johan roadkill]

can't really compare 1 ship going up against a mass of repairers and complain you can't out dmg them lol

that would be like a rowing boat going up against a fraight ship

 

[John B Knight]

Maybe MA should create a counter... Create a gun that can go on ships and be upgraded with SI similar to the way that ships are upgraded... Do the same with the mines... For every 1k ped added in increase either the damage or range... or in the case of mines, the blast radius and/or the damage. Drop one million bucks in to gun and it can one shot kill any ship, but you have to keep pumping in cash in to it since it will be L... and/or the damage amplifier will only be on ammo, and you have to buy a new type of ammo for it... cost of the ammo for this missle is 5k ped per missle or something?

Sure if you want to kill any reason for players to move goods between planets or invest in security meassures - then put such a weapon ingame
Seriously please think about consequences before suggesting something like this.
Noone achieves balance with nuclear weapons hoping that noone will use them - at least not in virtual realms