Oil Price Increases 10% Due to Reseller

[ajm1974]

without evidence, id say that is scare mongering. there's plenty of oil on the auction for buyout anywhere from 120% to 160%. why buy a load at 165?

Scaremongering? In what way? I didn't suggest anyone had bought the oil. I have no idea why the person would put the oil up on auction or why it vanished. Maybe it was a bet. Maybe they were showing off. Who knows.

 

[Tangine]

Oh ok so the asteroid, the LAs and the malls are just part of a game and no investment I see I see...well do you know many people who get money from a bank to buy a game or invest that money for fun?

I +rep Golgotha for his latest post as he made a point, but i still think some things should be made clear here.

Yes the land areas and malls are part of a game. No matter how big the impact on real life may be (and it is big), it is still an online entertainment, at least from the player viewpoint. Now from the investor viewpoint, and please note that i agree there is investment, and stop trying to alter what i'm saying so it lloks plain dumb, thank you... So, from investor viewpoint : The investments in EU can only have return as long as Mindark keeps living, hence, as long as some people keep depositing and losing money on entertainment. If you remove the fun part of EU, how exactly do you plan having customers in shops and hunters in land areas ? You think people will buy in shops items they don't plan to use ? If you remove the fun and random factors from EU to turn it into a pure business, then you will only see resellers buying from resellers and selling to resellers. Remove miners, crafters and hunters from the economy if you don't see what i mean.

Now, in real life you buy your mall and you want people to come shop in it, or you buy oil you want people to put it in their cars. Fine. I don't know many people who actually shop for fun in real life, or drive around for the sake of it. In EU they do. The people who actually make your investment profitable are players, and they will only buy as long as they have fun. If everyone was reasoning as an investor, no one would play (cause it's loss most of time) and your land areas would be empty. So... it is your right to think as an investor and say that you NEED to buy that oil to run that business of yours. But then think again : you don't own anything here. Mindark owns every single item in EU. So technically, it's not your business, and you're not investing in your company, whether you're a pilot or a mall owner. You're investing in their business. And their business is entertainement. Not real estate or oil. Don't forget that : MA can screw "your" business anytime by changing the rules to make their business work. They did it in the past with early "investors", and they'll do it again because they go to their interest, not yours. If they want to stop dropping oil tomorrow and make your pilot business bankrupt, they can. It is more than a game, but it's still a game, and Mindark makes the rules. All of them. Very much unlike in Real Life.

 

[Az Bloodz]

Well saying EU is just a game is plain dumb at least in my opinion. I do not know much games in which that amount of money is involved. That you actually do not own anything is the risk and everybody knows about it but any reseller who raises prices like oil which is needed for like pilot business can be avoided and should not be tolerated or justified.

 

[Tangine]

Well saying EU is just a game is plain dumb at least in my opinion. I do not know much games in which that amount of money is involved. That you actually do not own anything is the risk and everybody knows about it but any reseller who raises prices like oil which is needed for like pilot business can be avoided and should not be tolerated or justified.

If that reply is intended to me, i hope you're not calling me dumb, cause that would mean you definitely didn't read my posts, as i've been saying pretty much the same thing as you are now, so you would be calling yourself dumb too If it's a general statement, cheers. In some ways EU is a game, in some ways it aint. The fact that huge amount of money is involved doesn't make it less of a game... Or maybe you think football or basket ball isn't a game ? Sorry, but five people throwing a ball at each other to entertain people looks very much like a game to me. And the amount of money at stake is in no way to be compared to EU... If you make a living out of your game, you become a professional player, that's great for you. But thousands of people play the same game for fun. I can grab a ball and play soccer if i want to, anytime. And have fun. No matter how poor player i am. So it's still a game. Sorry
Huge investors in EU need a player base. They need gamers. Investment is just another gameplay that is specific to EU. There is room in EU for investors like there is one for hunters, miners, crafters. That's why "virtual universe" is closer to the truth than just "game".

Oh and I never thought of justifying resellers manipulating the market, but unless they break the EULA there is not much to be done about it right ? Avoid them when you can. Unless you come up with a way of getting rid of resellers, which i doubt. You seem to be pretty fresh around here (maybe you aren't) and lots of fresh people come up here claiming they have solution to get rid of resellers, etc. Like no one thought of it before they came lol... But i'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Now, impress me

 

[Az Bloodz]

You said I should not let your post look 'plain dumb' well...args anyways...
Well playing like maybe a year now and no I have no solution about the reseller problem. Only thing we can do is avoiding them but since there will always be people who buy stuff off them there is no way...anyways I just do not like how some of the people here treat them as in "I would give them a +rep because I am a miner" ...

btw: for people who invest money into sports as sponsors they ain't games and since almost everyone in EU is a "sponsor"...well let's forget about this

 

[GolGotha]

If that reply is intended to me, i hope you're not calling me dumb, cause that would mean you definitely didn't read my posts, as i've been saying pretty much the same thing as you are now, so you would be calling yourself dumb too If it's a general statement, cheers. In some ways EU is a game, in some ways it aint. The fact that huge amount of money is involved doesn't make it less of a game... Or maybe you think football or basket ball isn't a game ? Sorry, but five people throwing a ball at each other to entertain people looks very much like a game to me. And the amount of money at stake is in no way to be compared to EU... If you make a living out of your game, you become a professional player, that's great for you. But thousands of people play the same game for fun. I can grab a ball and play soccer if i want to, anytime. And have fun. No matter how poor player i am. So it's still a game. Sorry
Huge investors in EU need a player base. They need gamers. Investment is just another gameplay that is specific to EU. There is room in EU for investors like there is one for hunters, miners, crafters. That's why "virtual universe" is closer to the truth than just "game".

Oh and I never thought of justifying resellers manipulating the market, but unless they break the EULA there is not much to be done about it right ? Avoid them when you can. Unless you come up with a way of getting rid of resellers, which i doubt. You seem to be pretty fresh around here (maybe you aren't) and lots of fresh people come up here claiming they have solution to get rid of resellers, etc. Like no one thought of it before they came lol... But i'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Now, impress me

Your argument is well laid out and logical, but it's actual not the problem at hand. No offense though. We aren't discussing and comparing the reality of PE or the necessity of it; we are discussing the artificial inflation of a certain product that is often used by crafters. It just bothers me that people continue to buy oil at a ridiculous price. They can very easily change blueprints at the same level to one that does not use oil and they would not encourage the price increase. I wish it was mandatory to have an account here on EF if you play PE, I really do.

On another note:

If the oil buyer did put 1 million oil into the auction and then remove it, it would have cost him A LOT of ped because of the 65% markup and the very high TT of it. I doubt he would be showing off at such an extreme price. This is just frustrating.

To Mindbuster / 711 / other mods: I was wondering, if people had incentive to know, if I could PM them the names of the price increases so they could watch out for them. Thanks.

+Gol

 

[Tangine]

To Az Bloodz :
Yeah, i see your point. We all are investors in EU in a way. Because we all want it to go on, and we all more or less give MA our trust by sigining up and logging in, and buying stuff, etc. So yeah, every deposit is some kind of investment. I see my skills as an investment that i hope will return to me at one point when i can hunt efficiently. EU is definitely a game to me, but we might say that the specificity of it is that every player is also an investor in the company : we don't just pay for a service, and you're right on that point. We all invest time and money building this. Some of us being extremely serious about it.

we are discussing the artificial inflation of a certain product that is often used by crafters. It just bothers me that people continue to buy oil at a ridiculous price. They can very easily change blueprints at the same level to one that does not use oil and they would not encourage the price increase. I wish it was mandatory to have an account here on EF if you play PE, I really do.

On another note:

If the oil buyer did put 1 million oil into the auction and then remove it, it would have cost him A LOT of ped because of the 65% markup and the very high TT of it. I doubt he would be showing off at such an extreme price. This is just frustrating.

To Mindbuster / 711 / other mods: I was wondering, if people had incentive to know, if I could PM them the names of the price increases so they could watch out for them. Thanks.

+Gol

Yeah, we're a bit off-topic here, but :

Maximum loss for him would be 100 ped if he removes his oil, as the auction fees cannot go higher than 100 peds in any case. If we're talking about 1 million oil, it's not that much loss as the total value would be 10k peds (or 20k peds if we talk about refined oil)... Or am I calulating wrong somewhere ? So if i'm right, that makes a 1% loss if we consider the tt value, and if we consider the markup, the 100 peds loss become quite tiny compared to the potential 33000 thousand peds (assuming that the 165% applies to the actual sale).

I am quite confident you can name people in pm if someone requests. You can say a LOT of things in pm. As far as I know you can even insult people very badly : i got some of those and never bothered to report them to mods as it is private business between me and some troll and i can handle it pretty much alone .

lastly : EF is no official forum, hence having an account in EU can't be linked to having an account here. There are plenty of other forums in various languages that i won't start mentioning here, and that still play their part even though EF probably stands out with Marco posting more and more here, etc. The bottom line is having an account here wouldn't prevent people from reselling. They would just get neg reputation all the time. And get banned after a while, so it would be the end of it. Now, if it were an official forum, what do you think would happen ? same thing. neg rep and basta. Why ? Because, as I explained in quite few other threads now, Mindark benefits from a reasonable reselling process because price rise means inflation (bigger deposits) and MA likes to have lots of peds ingame, and get the auction fees too. So MA will fight resellers to a certain extent : they introduced the proportionate fees to restrain part of the reseller profit, BUT as you see, on such ammounts, or on items worth thousands of peds like uber weapons, the fees are not high enough to compete with the profit. I'm taking an extreme here, just for the big picture, but what is 100 peds fee when you sell a modfap for 250k peds ? it's nothing : 0.04% of the total price. Hence, resellers still can do the job for a nice income...

Now back to topic, i put 250 peds of oil in auctions two days ago. I was going to sell it to my pilot socmates but they were at CND and i was on planet. I needed the peds to go mining, and heard of that price rise. So i decided the hell with it and put oil in auctions for 106% minimum bid and 150% buyout, for two days. Tomorrow i will find how far it went. I have no idea yet. But as I was going to sell it at 105% to my pilot friend, I consider anything above that is pure profit for me. Yes I know Leeloo here sells at 117% and it sounds like a fair price, but our pilot is a shop partner and a friend and I have interest in this, since i fly with him from time to time to go take care of CND shop. So what is fair price anyway ?

We all make our own standards, we decide when we stop bidding. It's all about knowing the difference between what you can control and what you can't. Oil dropping, i can't control, that's MA. Crazy resellers market manipulation i can't stop, but i can chose not to join the rotten deal, and get my oil somewhere else than auctions that are sooo easy to manipulate : you will see most miners prefer selling to a crafter they know, at slightly lower price, than putting stuff on auctions to get more peds. Leeloo just confirmed she would sell at a constant price. And i know lots of miners prefer stable prices than a constant up and down, because it helps their strategy in mining. Last : i can control my urge to use that oil, hence my urge to buy it...
If i can resist that, it means i'm still free. If i can't, i'm kind of enslaved. I don't like that feeling. When i see this coming, i go gather sweat for a bit, it brings me back to perspective.

Damn i tend to make such loooong posts... Hope you're not all asleep

 

[GolGotha]

Lol, such long posts Very coherent though and I appreciate your thoughts and feedback.