Overmine,re-bomb,mining next to other player?

D3sire

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With many miners that recently cry out for TT return, with most of them (who cry-like myself) simply grinding fabolous ''pyrite'' it happens that many of us run behind another fellow miner in short time gap....

Fact is that if you stand still and drop probes/surveys in same position your hit rate turns to 0, pretty much same thing happens when another miner is next to you.

When you craft you interact on your own 100% of time, while hunting if solo hunt its mostly same situation, in exception where someone can do couple shoots on your mob and you still get loot ( many times i have seen that players go into rage mode when someone with bigger dps kills mob they tagged first, claiming they will never get that round spent returned...


Now lets get back to couple miners droping bombs at same position, or inside same area, stand in the same spot and drop 100 bombs ( beside initial drop and possibly second, in rare cases third....all other 97 should result in no resource found ) every drop you do no matter what.
Same thing happens when 2-3 or 10 miners do at same position, hit rate for all of them beside first initial drops will turn to 0.

Many miners focus same jucy areas....and most of those players keep getting bad TT results?

Miners who tend to explore other planets or do something diffrent result in decent tt returns....with markup not juicy as the one in crowded and yet most of them are ok and even happy with tt return!


So question is what happens to those 100 bombs i drop in the same spot,
Or couple of us do it?

My opinion/what i read on forum/wiki and one colected from old/expirienced miners is bellow, pick a number in comments!

1: those drops we never get back
2: we do get 95% of it back or what ever prospector level is?
3: That area acts similiar to big shared mob where someone ends up with item/tower in this case and all others lose?
4: 70% of peds burned like this gets distributes among players in area over period of time/power to endure bad loot
(With no classic prediction when it can happen or how many drops to even out)
Example is most recent 60k ath in argus which happend to player after what 15 years?

5: It even out portion of ped lost in quicker time frame? In most cases most of those hits are in range 800-1300 ped
XIX-XXI sizes which where not average size multy with amp used to hit them.
(In my expirience no 5 might be the case but it still doesnt refunded me nowhere near 95% )

6: Couple most skilled miners ingame pointed out mining returns are caped to 90% and prospector level slim to none impact on returns. With exception of lvl 50 unlock miner (some stats says it slightly impacts rare ore/enm hits.

7:Most of them also push overmined areas in most cases ( and yet there is one player who posts mining logs every year with 95.5-96.5% TT return) cant use names🤭 but lets say he is right

8. opinions are welcome and i hope this post helps us all improve knowledge of game

I must add that this post is coming from player who spent last 2 years grinding pretty much every day lvl 65 prospector with imp exca and mod refiner. in last 5 months i roasted 40 finders with mid tier amps with average 3000+ drops per finder resulting in over 120k drops, i have stable 114.6% entire cycle...
With all + and - i am totaly losing 3500 ped and skills i aquired come atop of that, if i hunted same ammount cycled result i would probably go above 250 hp at least....but with mining skills only my avatar is still super weak.

New players with no eco gear low bankroll in such areas dont stand a chance, i would strongly recommend unamped exploring of all planets for best results...

Will i continue? Yes i will finish x3 VI stage of mining i am close to complete!
Who knows mb fat tower some day shows up....after i complete missions i will probably try hunting and exploring more!

Would i put so much effort into it again? Definetly not....at least not grinding same overmined areas for sure, if you could mine like people hunt nowdays it would be ok. Bonded to chair 5-6 usualy more hours per day excavating is bad for health and brain likewise.


I will blame it on MA as usual....imo there should be better explanation what happens with 100 drops clicked in same position, I mined entire year with tier 4 exhumer roasting excavator enhancer looking forward going for tier 5 with 0 warning from operator that they dont work. Thanks to ace for making people aware and for making most persistent post and bumping it until it was not fixed!

Mining same position or next to someone who does very same place might be broken and results are definetly not where they should be for many miners!

Nothing can be perfect and there will always be bugs, dev team is probably doing best they can! This year they put some effort to mining and made it go into right direction, more challenging and harder in all aspects but there is much more that can be done....for example place 2 randomized size 1-8 ul amps per year that can show up in SOOTO to any miner, make mining event???? in past 2 years all what miners had is first place yogg horror event reward on Monria....Thank you Monria team and i hope for more of those in future!
Speed up excavating somehow??
If that is hard to acomplish due to game mechanic simply increase time player have to excavate actual claim to like 5 days instead of 1 hour! Simple solution it would make mining much less laboring and players can organize better for excavating sessions than be bonded to pc.


I hope we get some answers, insights on overlaped/overmined areas at least hints what to avoid etc

Happy hoffing!
Carnage
 

tuxxan

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All I got to say is: No one can steal your TT return over a long period of time. it just doesn't matter if someone runs next to you or in front of you.
 
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kingofaces

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If people haven't read them, there's a few threads testing some of this in my signature.

In short, one of the easiest ways to lose TT mining is overmining coordinates that have already been recently mined. If someone is on radar, but running parallel to you, that shouldn't be an issue if you aren't crossing paths.
 

halftoasted

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Fact is that if you stand still and drop probes/surveys in same position your hit rate turns to 0, pretty much same thing happens when another miner is next to you.
People gonna hate but this is BS. I made the point many times to friends just running behind another player in hell, on RT, caly, Cyrene, Ark and Toulan.
There no ore/enm that spawn in this game just as there is no loot in mobs that spawn. Because you flick a switch on a machine and a RNG based on spending + other factor happen doesn't mean you unlock ore or enmatter at the location. There may be penalty for individuals dropping the exact same location but thats another topic entirely. One of my best hell run was to pass right behind a miner getting 2 global.
with most of them (who cry-like myself) simply grinding fabolous ''pyrite'' it happens that many of us run behind another fellow miner in short time gap....
THIS is the issue... MA is just like IRL! It's a CLOSED system. If you could just push pyrite out of the ground in infinite, it would have no MU.
Everyone try to grind MU thinking it will stay same even if they pull infinite. A fallacy the most perplexing as it defy the very logic of the reason behind MU in a game where people should be aware of such basic logic. This is why if people lose a lot trying to get something that cant be found in more than X quantity and not enough people burning it because everyone afraid to run out... Then you have this obvious situation. Even other games like Diablo 1,2,3, Path of Exile, WoW and so on... Be it peds, gold or consumable item based trading changed nothing. The Value Of An Item is based on it's availability.


New players with no eco gear low bankroll in such areas dont stand a chance, i would strongly recommend unamped exploring of all planets for best results...
The most retarded hits for ped spent is actually the most common bankroll profit in this game.
The guy that spent on big finder, big amp, enhancers and end up playing what could be compared as a tight slot machine. The one you just dont wanna play and usually lose a lot until they break even with MU cause they wasted so much MU trying to get a hit covering the losses.



Anyone who know how Diablo II had to change it's loot mechanics during production to not be considered gambling will be 3000% closer to how loot work in EU than 97% of this forum.

Blizzard was the revolution into turning loot RNG not being considered "Gambling RNG". The pioneer of today loot mechanics.
 

mastermesh

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Anyone who know how Diablo II had to change it's loot mechanics during production to not be considered gambling will be 3000% closer to how loot work in EU than 97% of this forum.

Blizzard was the revolution into turning loot RNG not being considered "Gambling RNG". The pioneer of today loot mechanics.
Need a Stone of Jordan in this game... Also, I've been saying a long time old school weapons should be changed to allow runes and rune words like good ol diablo 2. You already have tier system, this would be something in addition to that system that would only work on old school non sib weapons, armor, etc.
 

halftoasted

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Need a Stone of Jordan in this game... Also, I've been saying a long time old school weapons should be changed to allow runes and rune words like good ol diablo 2. You already have tier system, this would be something in addition to that system that would only work on old school non sib weapons, armor, etc.
MA is slow and I think enhancers fill a bit of that role blandly but in a more balanced manner :p
What I want for the non sib is a Path Of Exile Vaal ORB mission! Where it can destroy the weapon into shrap, randomly transform it into a (L) with or without special bonus or when the MAGIC HAPPEN you get the same UL that cant be corrupted with more mob but could have gained either dmg, reload speed, crit and/or some lifeleech. Weapon would be unchangeable after that. No upgrades even if they had one possible. Just tiering from then on!
 

M Rufen Power

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Just make sure your mining area is big enough for 3 hours of mining to avoid over mining it.
If you rebomb, ensure you are moving to get the best result; if not moving, it balances out.
If you are next to another player, mine, mine mine, their claims don't affect yours, it's rng.
 

Alina

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This was old mining on pyrite uncrowded area

168​
01-09-20​
48604​
212,41​
116824,6​
6772,72​
172413,74​
153382,8​
49000​
202382,8​
29969,06​
169​
02-10-20​
2440​
64,03​
6968,32​
422​
9894,35​
5466,64​
400​
5866,64​
-4027,71​
170​
10-10-20​
38600​
154,66​
102907,8​
5713​
147375,43​
142493,2​
30370​
172863,18​
25487,75​


40 days mining 95% return > 51k profit
 

Sulje

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This was old mining on pyrite uncrowded area

168​
01-09-20​
48604​
212,41​
116824,6​
6772,72​
172413,74​
153382,8​
49000​
202382,8​
29969,06​
169​
02-10-20​
2440​
64,03​
6968,32​
422​
9894,35​
5466,64​
400​
5866,64​
-4027,71​
170​
10-10-20​
38600​
154,66​
102907,8​
5713​
147375,43​
142493,2​
30370​
172863,18​
25487,75​


40 days mining 95% return > 51k profit
And while pyrite was 130-140% :D

Make sure server don't read you drop at the same place, and read some of the stuff @kingofaces investigated and posted on forum, mining return is not fixed and you can adjust it by adjusting your behaviour.

There are a lot of factors we can't say for sure, there is a theory that resources respawn faster in overmined areas, but don't think anyone from MindArk will step in and comment, as current employees don't know how it works.
 

Alina

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Sulje i recall 150% max 160% , slow factors > no teleporting, vehicle were allowed a short period cuz exploits, lootable pvp (so l had to do it safe with low tt on me)
 
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SoberPhil

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OP, if I were to compare what you wrote against my own experience, you're right about most things, but one thing stands out to me. When you're dropping probes after another player it's not the same thing as if you were dropping them in the same spot after yourself. I've mined Argus and I can say that even when there's other claims around you you can still find claims of your own, the volatility is increased in that area probably because of the amount of miners, but if you stand still and drop probes in the same spot you'll get nada, while in there you'll still get claims. It may be really good or really bad, but it's not the same thing.
 

Thark

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Im confused, how has noone tested this? I thought we knew for sure that areas had a cool down so to say. Cant we easily test this? Get 30 people, stand kinda close together and everyone drops bombs one after the other? should be easy, no? Costs 30 ped? Ill pay, w/e.

How can this be?
 

Sulje

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Im confused, how has noone tested this? I thought we knew for sure that areas had a cool down so to say. Cant we easily test this? Get 30 people, stand kinda close together and everyone drops bombs one after the other? should be easy, no? Costs 30 ped? Ill pay, w/e.

How can this be?
@kingofaces tested and posted results on forum somewhere.
 

kingofaces

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@kingofaces tested and posted results on forum somewhere.

First in the series in addition to what’s in my sig so no one had to chase it down.
 

halftoasted

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We did record TT, but due to a global and near-global as outliers in the first two runs, this is again something to be cautious about interpreting since someone might be tempted to say there's a slight difference at 30 minutes. In short, pretty standard TT variability with no trend or significant statistical tests

Is my main issue. The test was interesting but you interpret all data. Not just the one that fit a narrative. It's global, near global! It's an event! Just like in industrial engineering we say that we do SAMPLING to see the ANOMALIES because they are PART OF THE LOT!

I think that's the issue with most test. You dont have to be careful about interpretation of what happen. You have to be careful about not considering some data to fit a paradigm of belief.

You look at it and do the same thing 100 times and then see if it has or not an impact. 1 test is a fluke, 100 test is data, 1000 test is perception, 10 000 test is closer to reality. This is how slot machine are showed to be random! They make millions of test and look at the results!

It's just like you get asked to pick 4 cards out of 10 on a slot machine. No matter which card you picked out of the 10. The turned card will be the one that the machine picked beforehand. Giving an illusion of choice and an illusion of control.

Hit rate

The first miner had 26.7% HR, second was 6.7%, and third was 5.0%:
You know, I often tell my friends to go mine if they want to when Im "first miner" with about 5-15% HR.
The fact that a miner get 26% and the others get less is just all in the timing and can happen in any order. The story of the D-class indoor(the 1 find amp) is well known. Yet one of them will have plenty of finds and that is where the profit is.

My belief is that there is no ore that spawn. Why would it ? Mobs dont have loot.. Bp dont have loot and we dont even see underground. Why would there be ore for no one to see? We know MA is not gonna waste bandwidth, resources or anything that will cause them to spend for generating something that no one can even see. It's much simpler to make Hunting, mining and crafting work on the same principles. Equation result = Key = Is there a matching lock = is there loot in behind that lock? So all we do is send a mathematical equation based on many randomization factors and it unlock a result. It's just like unlocking a bitcoin... Thats no gambling. We are all Ecoin miner.

KerbCoins
MiningCoins
SpacemobCoins
CraftCoins
We are digging ecurrency of many types using peds instead of electricity. There no "bitcoin" that spawn. It's just unlocked.


Try it! First time I noticed was at Boreas where I was bored on Caly and went with friends out there to swunt big kerbs. A miner proceeded to min in circle around us for nearly 30 min summoning claims near us. Was really pretty for a night life with lights all around us. I showed that to many players where you can just circle and circle the same area getting simillar results. Player had about 20 claims around us that he summoned 1 by 1 for the fun of it.
 

Sulje

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Is my main issue. The test was interesting but you interpret all data. Not just the one that fit a narrative. It's global, near global! It's an event! Just like in industrial engineering we say that we do SAMPLING to see the ANOMALIES because they are PART OF THE LOT!

I think that's the issue with most test. You dont have to be careful about interpretation of what happen. You have to be careful about not considering some data to fit a paradigm of belief.

You look at it and do the same thing 100 times and then see if it has or not an impact. 1 test is a fluke, 100 test is data, 1000 test is perception, 10 000 test is closer to reality. This is how slot machine are showed to be random! They make millions of test and look at the results!

It's just like you get asked to pick 4 cards out of 10 on a slot machine. No matter which card you picked out of the 10. The turned card will be the one that the machine picked beforehand. Giving an illusion of choice and an illusion of control.


You know, I often tell my friends to go mine if they want to when Im "first miner" with about 5-15% HR.
The fact that a miner get 26% and the others get less is just all in the timing and can happen in any order. The story of the D-class indoor(the 1 find amp) is well known. Yet one of them will have plenty of finds and that is where the profit is.

My belief is that there is no ore that spawn. Why would it ? Mobs dont have loot.. Bp dont have loot and we dont even see underground. Why would there be ore for no one to see? We know MA is not gonna waste bandwidth, resources or anything that will cause them to spend for generating something that no one can even see. It's much simpler to make Hunting, mining and crafting work on the same principles. Equation result = Key = Is there a matching lock = is there loot in behind that lock? So all we do is send a mathematical equation based on many randomization factors and it unlock a result. It's just like unlocking a bitcoin... Thats no gambling. We are all Ecoin miner.

KerbCoins
MiningCoins
SpacemobCoins
CraftCoins
We are digging ecurrency of many types using peds instead of electricity. There no "bitcoin" that spawn. It's just unlocked.


Try it! First time I noticed was at Boreas where I was bored on Caly and went with friends out there to swunt big kerbs. A miner proceeded to min in circle around us for nearly 30 min summoning claims near us. Was really pretty for a night life with lights all around us. I showed that to many players where you can just circle and circle the same area getting simillar results. Player had about 20 claims around us that he summoned 1 by 1 for the fun of it.
It is not realistic to expect someone spend $1000 to prove theory.
 

kingofaces

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Is my main issue. The test was interesting but you interpret all data. Not just the one that fit a narrative.
First, you are saying a lot of scattered words, but you're not really addressing anything specific at all in terms of issues with the design or analysis. Most of the things you roughly allude to were already asked with less hand-waving and answered in more depth in the two main HR threads. I also gave a little background on what us scientists do for these analyses since it's sometimes a little foreign to people on the forums, especially in how those tests are designed to deal with random chance.

Removing single outliers like that is standard procedure for any statistical analysis in reference to the global in the second experiment. Not to mention that would only affect the TT portion of the analysis not hit rate, which was the main focus. Let's set that aside for a second though because the first experiment is where most of the results are based. The statistical analysis are pretty straightforward there as well as experimental design, and it's very clear both HR and TT dropped if someone mined within a short period of time in the same area. If someone wants to dispute that, bring better data.

For the second experiment though, we didn't see any effect when we spaced out the interval time between miners even more. If I do add those outliers back in though, that would only increase the effect of "first miner gets more", an idea which you're opposed to anyways. You're only weakening what you claim by trying to do that, and in reality, the data would only indicate you'd need to wait longer for claims to "respawn" at "worst".

When I did more in-depth looks without just removing outliers though, the effects were still practically the same statistically, just not as nice to present simply. Last I checked, this is a forum, not a journal article; there's a point where that would have been overkill and just trying to sound needlessly boastful or "super-smart" if I went that far into the weeds.

My belief is . . .

And I think this highlights the problem you're having here in this thread. Belief is irrelevant and pretty much a full stop to discussion on actual data. Too many people have beliefs or pet theories they try to argue about on the forum, but they react poorly when met with data. Other times, they either have really poor data or something that can't be analyzed properly.

I just care about what the data says, and belief alone doesn't have a say in that. If someone wants to wildly claim I'm setting up experiments to support my initial views on something, you only have to look as far as the finder decay testing thread. The attempt is cute, but no. At the end of the day, some parts of mining are very easy to set up formal tests for (others not so much and a lot I just don't post publicly) compared to some systems us scientists trained in exactly this kind of work have to do. This was all pretty run of the mill and by the book.
 
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halftoasted

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Removing single outliers like that is standard procedure for any statistical analysis in reference to the global in the second experiment.
It is a standard procedure into observing trends. No results. If that were the case, the diamond industry would not exist as it is 95% scan loss with a rare mine that pay for all the loss. Thus, the statistical need of the diamond industry without the outlier is impossible. A thing well learned in the industrial engineering of that statistical fiasco that is used for promotion of false content. That is the real science there. If something happen on rare occasion just like a defect, which is what a global or hof is. This is what we find.. The defect in the production to create a stable graph of what is actually going it. It's not a standard procedure to falsify data. It's a standard procedure to remove outliers to see TRENDS! A gimmick of marketing to generate profit where it is most placed. Trends do not reflect actual REALITY. This is basic statistic 101.

Doing a few small test doesnt justify calling it scientific. At best it's a theorem of a procedure to be used, a first sample of a procedure that need to be repeated thousands of time to get anything relevant or just a theorycrafting of a sampling session. Just like in the industry, it's a standard procedure to understand how many defects are. Not to call them outlier and say everything is fine because the juice box that will poison and kill someone being sent to the groceries is just an "outlier". There is nothing scientific about that kind of behavior and is something that is shun at by the whole industry and create scandals world wide when it happen.

And I think this highlights the problem you're having here in this thread. Belief is irrelevant and pretty much a full stop to discussion on actual data.
Because I dont have the arrogance to call a data of a few players over 3 years based on assumptions as facts. I think that is indeed the highlight between a kid playing at poor testing technique and calling it scientifical fact versus an interesting observation that it was.

Being unscientific and calling it science to then disrespect someone who use the proper terms what an observation is...
How do you call that ? Defamation ? Confusion ? Poor perception ? Personal attack ? Because the only thing that it aint... It's science.
You take your pick.. But on my count. You did all 4 because when you look at some of the other players huge logs they posted. They aint even facts and they will tell you. They are just INTERESTING DATA. Even putting them together will not even be close to a fact because we would need thousands of their logs which are about 1000 times bigger than yours meaning you are about 1 000 000 times of your test short to get anything really interesting.
 

kingofaces

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That is the real science there.
You're kind of all over the place here in your comments yet never really addressing concrete issues we'd normally discuss when it comes to troublesome analyses. That's why my red flag went up and as would anyone's with a statistics background when they saw your 1,000 or 1,000,000 times comment. I'm not here on this forum to be your personal professor though, so look into a course if the subject really interests you or you want to learn how scientists communicate about actual data. Since you mention statistics 101, we usually cover a lot of the areas you're having trouble with in it, at least in undergrad courses anyways. Experimental design usually is more at the graduate level though. I wouldn't suggest lashing out like you're doing to other professors though.

Otherwise, I suggest actually reading the threads that did cover fundamental statistics you're glossing over. There were plenty of level-headed people that weren't sure but made much more informed questions that actually did probe at the design or statistics. I'm not seeing any of that here even while trying to to dismiss the attitude. You're instead talking about people's unstructured logs that generally aren't usable and are completely confounded while using common misunderstandings about sample sizes that were already addressed in the previous threads in the primers.

At the end of the day, I only see one person here actually providing structured usable data and analysis. Sure, someone could wave their hands around vaguely in a manner that would get dismissed by any journal editor about somehow the data being bad. They could even come in from the start essentially saying "The data disagrees with how I think things should be." However, a scientist would rather want to replicate what was done and see if they can also produce the same effect or even add variables. That's especially when the analysis is at an accepted threshold we tend to hold research articles to already. I know I've done the latter a few times already beyond what is publicly posted and gotten the same results. You're welcome to do the same.
 
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halftoasted

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Outlier​

This article is about the statistical term. For other uses, see Outlier (disambiguation).
Figure 1. Box plot of data from the Michelson–Morley experiment displaying four outliers in the middle column, as well as one outlier in the first column.
In statistics, an outlier is a data point that differs significantly from other observations.[1][2] An outlier may be due to variability in the measurement or it may indicate experimental error; the latter are sometimes excluded from the data set.[3] An outlier can cause serious problems in statistical analyses.
Outliers can occur by chance in any distribution, but they often indicate either measurement error or that the population has a heavy-tailed distribution. In the former case one wishes to discard them or use statistics that are robust to outliers, while in the latter case they indicate that the distribution has high skewness and that one should be very cautious in using tools or intuitions that assume a normal distribution. A frequent cause of outliers is a mixture of two distributions, which may be two distinct sub-populations, or may indicate 'correct trial' versus 'measurement error'; this is modeled by a mixture model.

I think the underlined area is clear. A global or hof does not indicate any form of error in measurement. It is part of return. Finding less but a global, finding many globals or finding nothing are all part of the exact mechanics of EU. Removing a non error by using the Outlier factor which indicate a global is a mistake sure is a way to create a fallacy.

As global are part of a heavy-tailed distribution. One can clearly say that discarding it is a bias of statistics.

Its not too complicated. You can also look at heavy-tailed distribution. I suggest you do.

I also read many threads up to times that dont even have relevance to todays mechanics because history is important information. Facts remain facts. Statistics should be done properly and not just slice X or Y without consideration if it's an error or not just because it has a term that often mean error. A global isnt an error.
 

kingofaces

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Tony KingofAces Hans
The initial comments making up things about me were a pretty good indication this wasn't going to go anywhere. What’s basically going on is that they aren’t actually looking at what happens to the data when they keep going on about outliers. It changes nothing in the first experiment for HR or TT and would do nothing in the second round for HR either. HR is still reduced within a timeframe with overlap no matter how the data are approached.

The only thing outliers could possibly change is TT in the second longer interval testing round that had them. In that case though, the only possible change by those additions would contradict their claims about mining overlap. If you increase the TT of those first two miners that happened to get the multipliers, you’re pushing the results to say overlap at those longer timeframes does affect TT. That is literally the only change you could get at that point. Instead, (and having to repeat myself again) even including outliers and not doing things quite as simply still gave no real change in the results. Even if there was something questionable, it would have come up in replication or basically repeating variations of those experiments that I’ve run individually.

So that’s why I’m spending a little time here addressing what actually went on, though more for other readers’ benefit at this point. There were definitely people in the original threads that weren’t convinced at first, but were cordial and actually asked good grounded and data-specific questions if anyone wants to see what actual questioning looks like.
 
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Thark

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Nice thx Sulje, and kingofaces ofc for actually doing a test. So we DO know!


Altho, Id still be interested to see what would happen if we got 30 people each with one probe, standing very close together and every 2s the next person drops a probe. Think of it as a preliminary experiment to see if Miner 2 and 3 still finding things can really be explained with the 2 mechanisms you explored. We'd expect either
  • only Miner#1 finding something the rest not,
  • no one finding anything,
  • Miner#1 yes, Miner#2 yes (because Miner#1 found something rly close), and so on, then the rest NRF.
  • Hit rate goes down but maybe claim size correspondingly rises?
  • Some combination.
Actually 30 people is probably too much. Maybe I can get my soc together and we can find 8 people or so, at least we could repeat the experiment 10 times at 10 different spots. Id be down to pay for that. I'll let you know, today is fishing day tho, so maybe end of the week :p Anything I should think of? I was thinking tt finder, unamped. Skill level of miners? Would that matter somehow?

cheers
 

kingofaces

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Nice thx Sulje, and kingofaces ofc for actually doing a test. So we DO know!


Altho, Id still be interested to see what would happen if we got 30 people each with one probe, standing very close together and every 2s the next person drops a probe. Think of it as a preliminary experiment to see if Miner 2 and 3 still finding things can really be explained with the 2 mechanisms you explored. We'd expect either
  • only Miner#1 finding something the rest not,
  • no one finding anything,
  • Miner#1 yes, Miner#2 yes (because Miner#1 found something rly close), and so on, then the rest NRF.
  • Hit rate goes down but maybe claim size correspondingly rises?
  • Some combination.
Actually 30 people is probably too much. Maybe I can get my soc together and we can find 8 people or so, at least we could repeat the experiment 10 times at 10 different spots. Id be down to pay for that. I'll let you know, today is fishing day tho, so maybe end of the week :p Anything I should think of? I was thinking tt finder, unamped. Skill level of miners? Would that matter somehow?

cheers
Are you thinking practically shoulder to shoulder? That could be a similar repeat of the last testing, except you’d need someone doing a first drop in an unmined area more than once. Otherwise, you’d have a sample size of one for that and 29 overlappers, and that’s not really analyzable.

What you could do is just have at least three people, get them next to each other, drop their series, go to another umined area say 110m north for everyone, and repeat. That or have multiple groups from the start.

I’m off to bed and don’t have my original threads up, but a similar number of drops per person/position would work well (I think it was 30). What you’re asking would be the same analysis as my threads though, so I’d be happy to run those stats on the data again to see how it works out. Coordinating claim data from even 3-5 people gets to be a bit of work.

Everyone should be using the same gear at least, though skill shouldn’t affect anything. HR won’t be affected by gear, but claim size would slightly vary due to decay differences. I think when we did this last, it was all F-101s. Technically even TT finders would work, but there might be a little rounding error possibly there.
 

halftoasted

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It is not realistic to expect someone spend $1000 to prove theory.
No. The world spend billions.
As for the game. I think you show my point! If people could... Then the game wouldnt work because EA games or any company could just rip off everything for cheap vs what MA would sell their proprietary intellect for. This is why players like messi can spend and spend while still not be able to see a fact. Just a concept.

Not being able to prove the fact because it cost too much IS MA business to protect THEIR business.
This is common knowledge and why everyone often get annoyed by the lack of clarity.

Edit: Btw... A TT finder where you drop ore + enmatter is 0.1548p per drop ? I may be off by a tiny bit on last 2 digits.
1000$ would give you about 64 599 drops. Split that with 20 players and you could easily do 100$ each ending with 129 198 drops.
MA wont let you find out the mechanics for that cheap. Would be too easy for big game industry to steal the code concepts to make their own.
 
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Thark

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Are you thinking practically shoulder to shoulder? That could be a similar repeat of the last testing, except you’d need someone doing a first drop in an unmined area more than once. Otherwise, you’d have a sample size of one for that and 29 overlappers, and that’s not really analyzable.

What you could do is just have at least three people, get them next to each other, drop their series, go to another umined area say 110m north for everyone, and repeat. That or have multiple groups from the start.

I’m off to bed and don’t have my original threads up, but a similar number of drops per person/position would work well (I think it was 30). What you’re asking would be the same analysis as my threads though, so I’d be happy to run those stats on the data again to see how it works out. Coordinating claim data from even 3-5 people gets to be a bit of work.

Everyone should be using the same gear at least, though skill shouldn’t affect anything. HR won’t be affected by gear, but claim size would slightly vary due to decay differences. I think when we did this last, it was all F-101s. Technically even TT finders would work, but there might be a little rounding error possibly there.
Thx for the info m8! Tbh i just (re)read the first thread of yours, the one you quoted. I did that this morning with my coffee so i didnt realize you did others too. Tho now that i think more about it, i think i did read your analyses at some point but it muatve been after I stoped mining so it didnt stick in my mind as much, just an interesting "huh, thats kinda cool" read.

Imma go over your other tests after i catch me some lake monsters tonight ;)

But yeah, my thought was to just have them overlap as much as possible and see if anyone aside from the first (couple) miners find something. Think of it like this, for 10 spots, each of the 8 miners droping probes right on top of each other:

  1. Hit, miss, miss, miss, miss, hit, miss, miss
  2. Miss, miss, miss, miss, hit, miss, miss, miss
  3. Hit, hit, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, hit
  4. ... till 10 or so
If you want, and think it makes a big difference, i can stand at our test site for 2h and see if i spot any greens just to make sure the area hasnt been mined. Been binge watching fringe again anyway, so i dont mind xD

I'd be very surprised to see that result above, cuz i always thought the last miners shouldnt get anything. But yeah ill have a more indepth read this week.

Thx for sparking my interest again :)
 
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D3sire

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Can we stop comparing entropia to other games?
This post is made to provide some knowledge and more data for mining community!

That hit rate is worse than normal when overlaping was never question.
Can we stick to core question?

I will also add that very first 700 pyrite hof after patch in december in Argus was mine...after that i simply grinded hard and adapted gear as best area demanded, maybe i am just in extremly bad period but tt for me is not good to continue and forced me to take a break from it and whine on forum

Question is do those peds get returned? If yes, how long do you need to wait?
etc.

For valid answer we need player who runed overmined area in past like Argus for like 1 year (who didnt craft/hunt in that time) and tracked stats properly and be willing to share some data
 

halftoasted

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Question is do those peds get returned? If yes, how long do you need to wait?
There is no personal loot pool. I think that is clear.



That hit rate is worse than normal when overlaping was never question.
Are you sure ?
Try a TT finder. You will see that it's not as true as you may expect

This guy will show several times in 1 video and I did many times to show the point.
 

D3sire

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There is no personal loot pool. I think that is clear.




Are you sure ?
Try a TT finder. You will see that it's not as true as you may expect

This guy will show several times in 1 video and I did many times to show the point.
What is your IGN?
 
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