Personal loot pool - WHAT IF they implemented it?

mrproper

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Just imagine, as you unefficiently waste peds away, or due to bugs/lags/disconnects lose some of your hard earned loot, all of this (a percentage perhaps) will be given to you as basic residue (metal, enmatter, shavings, yarn, petri dishes, oil, lyst, etc) in an attempt to match a 90% return rate. Why you ask? Why would MA be confident with giving you 90% of your money back and keeping the 10% they already keep?

Well they do that already, except new players, uneco players, drunk players, unlucky players and other sorts of wasteful players give MA 15-20% of their expenses. I find this to be quite high. What's the harm of giving players more money back so they can spend more time cycling it back. They will spend it anyway. And with the trust of a steady return they will throw even more money at the game.

Didn't they changed loot distribution to give a more steady return? If they want to give players a more safe return, why not give them a guaranteed system? Eco and highly skilled players? No problem, they will still get 90% back because they get less corrective loots. Annoying players forcing the system to give out high loots to get on the hof table? No problem, limit the corrective loots to median values.

It would even comply with a more general rule of "not gambling" and "not lottery". Players would flock to the game where you deposit 20$ a month and cycle 2000 peds with little deviation.

What is the disadvantage? I don't see any! What would MA lose if they do this? Would you play more or heavily if you could trust short term returns better?
 

steffel

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What is the disadvantage? I don't see any! What would MA lose if they do this? Would you play more or heavily if you could trust short term returns better?

1) coding effort and database management on MA side
2) cost for installing personal loot pools, e.g. as mentioned in 1); looks like there is already some sort of code producing ~90% for the average player
3) probably yes, told that MA already in their inactivity surveys like i guess most did
 

Neil Stockton

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If they implemented personal loot pools, we'd see lower returns for the eco players. It would no longer be a player vs player game. There would be no reward for playing carefully, those who drop 5 bombs on the same area would do just as well as those who carefully map out their drops. It seems to me that a big part of the game would be gone... e.g. the requirement for any kind of strategy, skill, and common sense.

I think the people who are pro-personal loot pools tend to be the ones who play drunk/careless/uneco, or who TT everything and can't be bothered about selling loot for MU.... or those who don't actually play enough to even their loot out normally. I'm sure there are others, I'm not saying anything personally about anyone who wants personal loot pools, but I think that careful, eco players will see that if personal loot pools were ever instituted, their own loot returns would suffer.
 

TheOneOmega

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Why should uneco players, drunk players, and other sorts of wasteful players get the same loot returns, and from the same number of loot-clicks, as those who optimize for eco, sober, and non-wasteful game play?

Some players spend a lot of time optimizing for favorable loot results, while other players optimize for "just having fun." Of course, either route can be just as fun, depending on what you consider "fun." What the latter group is actually optimizing for are arbitrary loot results (whether due to the love for high-stakes game play, or the desire to invest as little mental effort into game play as possible; both are perfectly valid reasons to play the game as uneco, drunk, or wasteful as your heart desires :)).

It seems unfair and unbalanced for both types of players, as well as everyone that falls somewhere in between the two extremes, to be given the same treatment in terms of loot. Players who make arbitrary choices should receive arbitrary loot results, and players who make choices in order to gain some control over their loot results should be able to attain those controlled results, to a degree.

I also don't see how enabling new players to attain the same loot results as veterans encourages them to want to skill.
 

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I would quit immediately. If we're not playing against other people what's the point?
 

Fanan

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It already exist you can call it personal loot pool, lootius, servers doing maths, good cycles, etc.

It's just terms that we use but the final result is proved to exist since i started to play.


And btw the "bad cycles" can last for 18 months or more...


About the bonus ubers/aths to newbie players that's another thing, can only see it as a MA strategy to make ppl addicted to the game.
 

billairboy

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Would that not make the whole game pretty pointless? :silly2:
 

Dennis blighter

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You have to realize, more eco they are better long term tt values they will have tho.

Super eco weapons could produce up to 97% and uneco down to 80%...
its how i feel it is now, but a personal loot pool is safer for an individual.

Personally i think there is already a personal loot pool according to eco.
Because everytime i lose alot, i do really good later on, and it is never the other way around for me, i always lose first, then gain most of it back for the losses later...

And if it was based on a system wide return, i could get, win, win, lose, lose, win lose win win.

Not the current, loss loss win win loss win loss loss loss win win win.

Either way i want a set personal loot pool based on eco.
 

valentin

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You have to realize, more eco they are better long term tt values they will have tho.

Super eco weapons could produce up to 97% and uneco down to 80%...
its how i feel it is now, but a personal loot pool is safer for an individual.

Personally i think there is already a personal loot pool according to eco.
Because everytime i lose alot, i do really good later on, and it is never the other way around for me, i always lose first, then gain most of it back for the losses later...

And if it was based on a system wide return, i could get, win, win, lose, lose, win lose win win.

Not the current, loss loss win win loss win loss loss loss win win win.

Either way i want a set personal loot pool based on eco.


Remeber all weapons is eco so far you have 10/10 and dont do over kill.
 

girtsn

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Kind of communism implementation from USSR where you can pretend to be efficient and get paid, or be efficient and get paid (sometimes less). It didn't lead to anything good right? No motivation, no competition, dead game.
I think of it this way, the people who were doing super-inefficient things hoped for a huge payback. Once they understood their ways was wrong and payback is unlikely, there were these main choices
  • accept the fact they believed in a wrong theory and change strategy to adapt
  • walk away being pissed (though the fact they are pissed at MA is ridiculous as MA never released the theory of personal loot pools, in fact they always said there is no such thing (afaik)
  • continue same way losing even more and being even more pissed
The only salvation in the last two would be to get a huge ATH, though long term it leads nowhere.
P.S. I believe you already get some fixed % back no matter how stupid things you do. It might not be 90% but not so far from it if looked at longterm.
 

Magix

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In the long run, I think we'd keep more players. Some people might quit because the game is easier, but I think more people would stay if they could see the 90% return sooner, or they felt their short term losses would be made up eventually.
 

Solo4711

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Hello,

play more? guess not
play different? yes definately

Before the dev notes where written I was thinking about a theory of a player based customer accounting system behing the scenes.

I took the sales on the trade terminal as well as the repairterminal as indicator for a customer class which could have been there. People who buy alot from the TT and sell nothing to the TT plus repair alot get asigned a certain customer class and unlock access to hof possibility or items in loot. Everytime someone generates a plus for MA on the terminals they take off the peds and assign a form of investment for you on your account. You play and play and when the time has come the peds you gave MA and with that also the blocked money would have generated an plus on % ROI on Mindarks bank a share of the Mindarks ROI they pay to you inform a big loot or UL item.

Since the peds where out the game for a certain time and changed into ammo etc you had no possibility to withdraw it cause it was a "good" inside the community to be turned into loot what makes you able to get the peds from other players back.

Everytime a single player sold his loot or rest of ammo back to the TT your share in Mindarks banking ROI got lower cause they would have given you peds with possibility of withdrawal back and with that your chances of big loot loweres down.

But since they said in dev note that there is no personal loot pool I have put the theory on hold.

Though no personal loot pool must not mean that there is no accounting and share in investment ROI with the ones who turn peds into the terminals.

To follow the theory though it would be needed to know what exactly happens with the money you hand in. Cant imagine personally that they keep it on a normal bank acc. I dont think that so many people withdraw each month or week so they need to have the money all ready for the case all withdraw their peds at once. And even if that happens they could let you wait for several month. Also MA got statistics for sure how much get withdrawn in what time by whom. No guarantee that suddenly withdrawals cant happen but it wont harm. You cant run such service blindly like "oh someone withdraws now oh what a shreck someone know the process for that?" "Only Jan knows and does that normally, all others dont have the phone number of our account manager at the bank" "JAAAAAANNN come here please" "Jan is on vacation" "oh damn well lets wait then" :D

Also data would be needed about withdrawal time. Small withdrawals faster than big sums? Do they need the time to get the money out of RL investment fonds or such to pay it back?

Do people who never sell loot to the TT get larger hofs?

Dont know therefore: It is just a personal theory which cant be followed easy. But still "accounting" is something else than "personal loot pool". :D

If someone can tell for sure that this terminal theory can be tossed away id appreciate all info. If someone likes to try find more out help is welcome.

If I choose between personal real loot pool which pays back uneco play or open chance for all I would vote for open chance for all. Due to competition in the RCE environment what also people told here already in the thread.

Greets,

Solo
 

mrproper

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Thanks for your thoughts...

If they implemented personal loot pools, we'd see lower returns for the eco players.
Why? Eco players would get the same loot as now, nothing would change for them.

Why would they have lower returns? I don't get your reasoning. It's only uneco players that get a slight bailout from time to time (not as stable returns as the eco players). MA gets plenty of money as it is.

eco players will see that if personal loot pools were ever instituted, their own loot returns would suffer.
Why?

Some players spend a lot of time optimizing for favorable loot results, while other players optimize for "just having fun." Of course, either route can be just as fun, depending on what you consider "fun."
I agree with you. Some people find losing 20%-25% of their expenses as "having fun", others need to stop "having fun" until they can afford to deposit again.

I would quit immediately. If we're not playing against other people what's the point?
Please explain how you are playing against other people NOW, and what is the point of the game NOW. I am quite confused as to what you are trying to say. Are we not playing against a system which we can never beat, because it is designed so even the most perfect play is a losing play? Is there a point, a destination, a milestone, a final result to playing EU?

Would that not make the whole game pretty pointless? :silly2:
What's the point now?

Super eco weapons could produce up to 97% and uneco down to 80%...
I don't think there are many examples of players getting more than 95% for a separate profession and limited periods of time. So while "they could" produce, it would be the same for them. Again, if they get more than the average, they wouldn't get anything extra for their missing loot. Only players that due to mistakes, bugs, low skills, etc, are losing huge percentages of their costs, would be compensated slightly more.


Just consider the recent mindforce change, where a simple NeoPsion20 and an Electric Attack Chip III gained a 5% eco bonus for no extra cost
. Up until now, mindforce users were theoretically spending more than ranged or melee weapon users for the same loot. All of a sudden, they get an extra boost. Nobody claims they will leave the game because of this, nobody claims eco players just got more eco in other professions, nobody declares there is no point in the game, that they can't compete against those players, and yet, there it is. It happened.
 

Uvas

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Just imagine, as you unefficiently waste peds away, or due to bugs/lags/disconnects lose some of your hard earned loot, all of this (a percentage perhaps) will be given to you as basic residue (metal, enmatter, shavings, yarn, petri dishes, oil, lyst, etc) in an attempt to match a 90% return rate. Why you ask? Why would MA be confident with giving you 90% of your money back and keeping the 10% they already keep?

Well they do that already, except new players, uneco players, drunk players, unlucky players and other sorts of wasteful players give MA 15-20% of their expenses. I find this to be quite high. What's the harm of giving players more money back so they can spend more time cycling it back. They will spend it anyway. And with the trust of a steady return they will throw even more money at the game.

Didn't they changed loot distribution to give a more steady return? If they want to give players a more safe return, why not give them a guaranteed system? Eco and highly skilled players? No problem, they will still get 90% back because they get less corrective loots. Annoying players forcing the system to give out high loots to get on the hof table? No problem, limit the corrective loots to median values.

It would even comply with a more general rule of "not gambling" and "not lottery". Players would flock to the game where you deposit 20$ a month and cycle 2000 peds with little deviation.

What is the disadvantage? I don't see any! What would MA lose if they do this? Would you play more or heavily if you could trust short term returns better?


LOL

Come up with a real question sometime....

Just trying to get some attention from the no personal loot pool "controversy" ?

Mods, close this thread.
 

Fifth

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Would this change increase the playerbase or decrease?

The core of the game (no matter if you know about all the fancy theories or you don't even care) for the majority of the players is the average return. Many play only until their first long bad loot streak. Making the returns more steady might improve this situation.

Then again, the simple truck driver comes here to find his "American Dream".
Kill his dream and he turns around right there - and walks away, back to some monthly fee game.


Who could predict which one of these two opposing factors would get the upper hand...
Don't think MA would ever try to find it out - too risky experiment.
 

xWandererx

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why is there still all this Crap about personal loot pools-you've been told by MA THERE ARE NO PERSONAL LOOT POOLS!!! Live with it!!
 

Pyhä Antero

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Kind of communism implementation from USSR where you can pretend to be efficient and get paid, or be efficient and get paid (sometimes less). It didn't lead to anything good right? No motivation, no competition, dead game.
I think of it this way, the people who were doing super-inefficient things hoped for a huge payback. Once they understood their ways was wrong and payback is unlikely, there were these main choices

Noob, learn to play. Then come to tell your views on politics.
 

SpikeBlack

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If all you could loot was based on your spending then why spend it in the first place :scratch2:
 

girtsn

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Nice social skills :D Good luck in your life with this attitude. Btw, it's not my view on politics but on a system I have lived in for a brief moment of my life (have you?) and how it would compare with the proposal from OP. And about game, I'm still learning unlike you Mr perfectgame :)
Noob, learn to play. Then come to tell your views on politics.
 

Sirhc

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Maybe they already implemented a personal loot pool but recently did away with it? OR if loot is somehow tied to equipment, skill, game seniority, and timing that impacts who is open to certain loots OR MA will tell us one thing today and change it tomorrow......hmmm :scratch:
 

mrproper

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Who could predict which one of these two opposing factors would get the upper hand...
Don't think MA would ever try to find it out - too risky experiment.

I don't know who could. Lots of people claim they want to leave the game because there is no personal tracking of loot returns. I did not imagine that proposing a clear tracking of personal loot returns would get so much flak.

I mean, what kind of people are they?! No personal loot pool? Leaving the game! Personal loot pool? Leaving the game! How can anyone please them?!

why is there still all this Crap about personal loot pools-you've been told by MA THERE ARE NO PERSONAL LOOT POOLS!!! Live with it!!

It looks like you lack proper comprehension skills and you completely missed the point, which is the possibility of adding a persona loot pool. We are not discussing if there is or is not one so your comment is completely off-topic. Also you appear mad.

And why would you post here if you don't like talking about it or seeing others talk about it? You don't want something, but you get into it anyway. How can anyone please you?!

If all you could loot was based on your spending then why spend it in the first place
headscratch.gif


Good question. What about the millions of players that spend virtual currency and get more of it while playing. Would players be happier if they get less of what they spend, a similar value or more value for their costs?
 

remontoire

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I mean, what kind of people are they?! No personal loot pool? Leaving the game! Personal loot pool? Leaving the game! How can anyone please them?!

These are two different sets of people, though.
 

SpikeBlack

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Good question. What about the millions of players that spend virtual currency and get more of it while playing. Would players be happier if they get less of what they spend, a similar value or more value for their costs?

if they felt that they were getting things of value i.e. equipment then it would offset any possible unhappiness when getting less back. If there's nothing special then it becomes a chore rather than something to enjoy.

This is where UL has it over L, you can loot an upgrade of equipment while it's virtually broken i.e. a few pec and they'd probably accept it as a fair exchange but a broken L and they'll get annoyed. If the L had lower tt values than it would give more opportunities in loot.

But doesn't everyone want more value for their costs.
 

Dennis blighter

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You must notice, if its an open market for loot, anyones gain is anothers loss.

Personally i feel there is a personal loot pool ased on eco( AT LEAST a tracker of your losses for possible paybacks)

Id want at least a personal loot pool that counts for lets say 80% of my loots.
 
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