Second Question, Kain Dewey Fall

Kain Dewey Fall

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Do mobs have defense ratings that make them have weaknesses to specific damage types or even specific weapon types?

Another I don't know if this is a followup question or not but... Is there an advantage other than weapon efficiency such as weapon type or damage types that increase loot chances?

I ask this because I notice the only sources given available show that the Mobs have a specific damage rating types but no defense rating types and people tell me that the damage types indicated on weapons are only good for PVP. What does the planet government, military, anarchic socialist organizations, whatever else think about that it, do mobs have weaknesses to specific weapons or damage types and is there an advantage to preventing them from blowing up versus falling paralyzed or dead? :p Straight from MindArk of Earth. The weapons we design are implemented to have an effect of damage type indicators are only effective against man-made defenses and the weapons damage range are effective on all mobs or Mobs do have weaknesses? :eek:
 

Dennis|MindArk

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Magnus Eriksson:
Monsters do not have defense ratings that make them vulnerable to certain weapons or damage types. The “Efficiency” and the “damage per pec” are the only parameters on weapons that have a direct effect on loot. However with the changes of loot 2.0 it would now be possible for us to add defenses and weaknesses against different types of damage and weapons etc to monsters. This is not something that is currently being being worked on but it would be interesting to hear the players thoughts and ideas on such a change to creatures.
 

Alukat123

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Magnus Eriksson:
Monsters do not have defense ratings that make them vulnerable to certain weapons or damage types. The “Efficiency” and the “damage per pec” are the only parameters on weapons that have a direct effect on loot. However with the changes of loot 2.0 it would now be possible for us to add defenses and weaknesses against different types of damage and weapons etc to monsters. This is not something that is currently being being worked on but it would be interesting to hear the players thoughts and ideas on such a change to creatures.

that may be something cool to add, as it could create demand for some currently-dead items/crafts ^^
 

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Magnus Eriksson:
Monsters do not have defense ratings that make them vulnerable to certain weapons or damage types. The “Efficiency” and the “damage per pec” are the only parameters on weapons that have a direct effect on loot. However with the changes of loot 2.0 it would now be possible for us to add defenses and weaknesses against different types of damage and weapons etc to monsters. This is not something that is currently being being worked on but it would be interesting to hear the players thoughts and ideas on such a change to creatures.
You guys already experimenting on this on Mayhem last year, i.e certain mobs get more damage with melee.

I ask that you guys please do not add this to the game (planetside). The moment our weapons are not as good as before anymore on the same mobs (heck even on new mobs planet side) expect a massive shitstorm ahead worse than ever before.

It's alright if it's in certain event instances, but not for the main game-play, that's my two pecs..
 

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Magnus Eriksson:
Monsters do not have defense ratings that make them vulnerable to certain weapons or damage types. The “Efficiency” and the “damage per pec” are the only parameters on weapons that have a direct effect on loot. However with the changes of loot 2.0 it would now be possible for us to add defenses and weaknesses against different types of damage and weapons etc to monsters. This is not something that is currently being being worked on but it would be interesting to hear the players thoughts and ideas on such a change to creatures.

I like the thought of it, because it introduces more strategy to my game play. But this would have to communicated in the game via an NPC or something, don't keep it secret for players to discover, as that could just be very frustrating.
 

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Magnus Eriksson:
Monsters do not have defense ratings that make them vulnerable to certain weapons or damage types. The “Efficiency” and the “damage per pec” are the only parameters on weapons that have a direct effect on loot. However with the changes of loot 2.0 it would now be possible for us to add defenses and weaknesses against different types of damage and weapons etc to monsters. This is not something that is currently being being worked on but it would be interesting to hear the players thoughts and ideas on such a change to creatures.

Don't do it. The only result would be to restrict us to only hunting certain mobs, or having to buy more equipment, both of which are bad.
 

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Don't do it. The only result would be to restrict us to only hunting certain mobs, or having to buy more equipment, both of which are bad.

Totally Agreed @Oleg. This adds another dimension of difficulty and cost. Might add variety but the pros vs cons puts this on a no list as far as i am concerned.
 

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I think that would be an interesting addition, and at the same time an unwelcome change. Changing the stats of mobs already in the game would be a huge no-no, since it would make a lot of players unhappy, but adding new mobs, either planetside or in instances that have specific vulnerabilities that are communicated via an NPC or a message from the start, would provide differentiation in game play.

ie: Hunt with Melee or electric chip for quicker kills, or with more conventional weapons for slower but higher output ones. In order for that to be effective though, there would need to be a behind the scenes consideration so it wouldn't count as an 'ineffective' kill and produce only shrapnel if you go via route 2
 

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Don't do it. The only result would be to restrict us to only hunting certain mobs, or having to buy more equipment, both of which are bad.

I think the same. People need more options to hunt, not fewer. And definitely not a good idea to have a different weapon for a different type of creature.
 

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Don't do it. The only result would be to restrict us to only hunting certain mobs, or having to buy more equipment, both of which are bad.

Agree as well.
 

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Seems I am the only one, who liked and thought about this idea after loot 2.0.

Of course all high eff. and dpp UL gear owner will vote for NO (would do as well, if I would own one).

But I say: "Give us a mob that can only be damaged with a new dmg type or rare existing one and make all this guns that can damage the mob limited!"
>>>>> Economy inrease for the win. <<<<<

***Edit***
If you do something like that, maybe also think about implementing a creature book feature. There we could gather and check all needed information fast (HP, Damage, Damage Type, Damage resistence, heal).
- If you first scan or got damaged by a creature it is added to the book.
- If you protected some dmg from it, % values got added to the book.
(but it doesnt show the 100% accurate one if you for example tested only one dmg type. If only 1 is tested it will show 100% or 0%, depends if it absorbed damage or not.)
- ...
 
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Magnus Eriksson:
This is not something that is currently being being worked on but it would be interesting to hear the players thoughts and ideas on such a change to creatures.

Although it may be bad for many players who haven´t balanced skills (specialists on just one weapon type), it would be much better diversity and a real reason to skill different weapon styles to stay as flexible with mobs to hunt as we are now.

As experienced player from other RPGs and MMOs aswell, this is very comon to have in other games, making the think part about skilling (what to skill, how much to skill) much more challanging.

I really would like to see it in EU too.

As others said, if you want to implement that, comunicate it to us, would be really bad if not knowing it from start.

It should also be visible when scanning the mobs, by displaying an protection value.

If it would be that way, really nothing against it.
 

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Totally Agreed @Oleg. This adds another dimension of difficulty and cost. Might add variety but the pros vs cons puts this on a no list as far as i am concerned.

I think you all are misinterpreting the idea of playing a video game with diversity and experiences with a pick up and shoot.

I don't think creating this new system would make your weapons any more or less efficient. I think it would create a larger efficiency margin of which to play with. It would bring further utilization to weapons and a better marketing strategy to choice in demand.

Your normal 50% to max damage or even the level requirement 100 weapons that start out 0 damage to max damage. They would still utilize the same damage averages, they would just implement new slightly higher or slightly lower damage ratios based on a mobs defense... As well as possibly loot efficiency chances based on the damage/weapon types you use in correlation to how the Mobs might be effected anatomically or whatever else according to their defense... But personally, I think more than anything else, it would be mind-force related, or possibly even skills related to natural damage types, But nothing that would cause too big a impact maybe... I was told that weapons Efficiency at 100% only increases your loot/ loot increase chance by 7%.


This idea of implement mobs defense effects from my perspective would be more than adding variety. I mean, it is an assumption, but I don't think you are seeing the big picture of what makes a game a game and not just a point and click. I just think that it wouldn't really have much of a negative impact as much as it would a strongly induced positive impact. It fulfills other string requests, among other things, while at the same time keeping up with making a more entertaining and productive gaming environment with a business model...
 
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Don't do it. The only result would be to restrict us to only hunting certain mobs, or having to buy more equipment, both of which are bad.

While I agree with you, there must be a balance..... If your thought was taken to its conclusion then melee weapons and pistols should all have 150m ranges, barringers should fire faster, L0 sib weapons should be capable of 100+dps, etc...
 

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Magnus Eriksson:
Monsters do not have defense ratings that make them vulnerable to certain weapons or damage types. The “Efficiency” and the “damage per pec” are the only parameters on weapons that have a direct effect on loot. However with the changes of loot 2.0 it would now be possible for us to add defenses and weaknesses against different types of damage and weapons etc to monsters. This is not something that is currently being being worked on but it would be interesting to hear the players thoughts and ideas on such a change to creatures.


Interesting idea but bad in the current structure of the game as I see it just meaning higher costs one again as now you need to own multiple weapon types depending on what you want to hunt.

I'd say start with more action based combat that requires actually moving and dodging and instead of having different weapon types do different damage try implementing weak spots on mobs.

So each mob has their own movement, attack pattern and weak spots that you need to use ACTUAL player skill to aim and hit during 1st person combat to do maximum damage thus rewarding players with real reflex skills with more efficient kills.
 

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You guys already experimenting on this on Mayhem last year, i.e certain mobs get more damage with melee.

I ask that you guys please do not add this to the game (planetside). The moment our weapons are not as good as before anymore on the same mobs (heck even on new mobs planet side) expect a massive shitstorm ahead worse than ever before.

It's alright if it's in certain event instances, but not for the main game-play, that's my two pecs..

Personally I'd like things like shotguns having big hit boxes, and a player's physical skill to hit the critical part of a creature lowering the regen of the mob or hindering its ability to attack or something.

However I don't think there would be a shit storm if certain weapons worked better against certain creatures, just they would have to be newly added creatures and not existing mobs changed around. Testing these in instances, as Sub-Zero mentions here, would probably be the best and could be pretty cool.

However...

Interesting idea but bad in the current structure of the game as I see it just meaning higher costs one again as now you need to own multiple weapon types depending on what you want to hunt.

I'd say start with more action based combat that requires actually moving and dodging and instead of having different weapon types do different damage try implementing weak spots on mobs.

So each mob has their own movement, attack pattern and weak spots that you need to use ACTUAL player skill to aim and hit during 1st person combat to do maximum damage thus rewarding players with real reflex skills with more efficient kills.

I feel this is more reasonable of a place to start, allow us ways to avoid the damage incoming and require us to think a bit more to reduce incoming damage.

Allowing us to hit a mob with a weapon the mob is weak against could perhaps lower the incoming attack accuracy, mob regen, or other factors that do not INCREASE cost to kill, or change cost to kill on the high end of skill(if you blow the mob away super fast with a big gun).


Pretty much if it increases the cost for simply going out and blasting a mob to pieces with a big gun and having no defensive costs, it will yield a bad reaction in the community I feel.
However giving us ways to REDUCE incoming damage of the mob, lower its regen/movement speed, or hinder the mob's ability to attack entirely by applying sufficient DPS to certain parts of the mob could be a nice feature.

The key is it's not something we would be happy with if it was openly tested on all mobs, versus just adding a new test case in an instance and seeing how we respond to it.

I do think as well we need to be given more reasons to have a diverse less expensive set of equipment, than to be so min/max about everything.

This game should be about adjusting to the environment around you, and having equipment and skills that allow you to do so in order to best take advantage and opportunity of the situation in front of you.
While many ubers probably want to kill me for saying this, it should not be in all cases a min/max, buy most expensive thing and win, but a use your head and win, and investment helps against larger mobs.
We need variation in content and reward that brings benefit to everyone, and variation in what we are expected to do and adapt to. Adding some new mobs that manage to incorporate this factor in parallel to what we have would be great, opening opportunity to people who are not already ubers or veterans.
Going the opposite way and changing everything and forcing us into a corner would be bad.
 
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Kain Dewey Fall

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Interesting idea but bad in the current structure of the game as I see it just meaning higher costs one again as now you need to own multiple weapon types depending on what you want to hunt.

I'd say start with more action based combat that requires actually moving and dodging and instead of having different weapon types do different damage try implementing weak spots on mobs.

So each mob has their own movement, attack pattern and weak spots that you need to use ACTUAL player skill to aim and hit during 1st person combat to do maximum damage thus rewarding players with real reflex skills with more efficient kills.

I might be wrong, but from personal experience. I am 99% certain that they already do this... And I am just going to note again that you wouldn't need to own multiple weapon types, that is like saying, you don't need to have a 100% efficiency weapon or a holiday skill boost ring. except on a smaller scale.
But, I know I am able to dodge and it always seems I gain experience faster, it is a part of my loot theory, and aiming is specific weak spots does more damage than shooting in the same spot repetitively, note that mobs do move. So, you can dodge and you can hit weak spots. You aren't going to be very effective shooting in the same spot over and over again, Thing anatomically and physiologically.
But if I am wrong I would love to know, but it has been working out great for me, dodging high level mobs for days and hitting weak spots for high damage with the no SIB max damage level requirement 0 "implemented lvl requirement100" weapons for days.
 

Kain Dewey Fall

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@Psynergy

I think this was a good addition of a comment in regard to ways to address giving mobs defenses.
But just so you know, there is already a large amount of advantages in the game that allow players to have defensive advantages over specific mob types, though I still think the ideas on that topic were mainly good as well.
Like, what if having specific types of minerals, or energy matter, maybe treasure in your inventory disarrayed mobs mental capacity by a fraction of a one percent based on the quantity you carried?

But anyhow,
I don't think it would increase costs of gear or require people to buy more weapons. It would encourage a more diverse gaming environment with real life experiences...

If you go out in the woods and shoot a deer with a pistol, depending on what type of pistol you are using, or even with a rifle of some kind depending on the rifle. It will either, bruise, puncture, or penetrate the deer. Meaning it is going to bounce off, go in the deer, or go through the deer. And yes, the most efficient way of hunting a deer is by shooting it between a specific rib cage straight into the heart and then skinning and gutting it as fast as you can as soon as you get a clean shot. Otherwise it causes issues with the quality vs quantity of the product. But sometimes a clean shot is all you need. But who cares about that when you can have it all?

The idea is, I am talking about something like that perspective, the "Damage" choice of your weapon has no effect other than if the bullet bounces off, goes in, or goes through. But sometimes the type of weapon you are using can have all the effect in the world. I don't know what to say on the psychological side of things, that is like delving into analytics. The guns have qualitities to them that effect not only whether a bullet goes in or through a "let's say a (Doe) deer, but guns also have qualities of HOW a bullet goes through, as well as there are BULLETs that have numerous effects on a shot as well... But there is something like Astrology, astronomy, numerology, and they play a role in gaming mechanics which is actually a study that revolves around what and how things work and how to gain an advantage over those possibilities for your favor or understand what make disadvantages toward your favor. What you use and how you use it having an effect base on a creatures defense effects quality vs quantity... :/ by a very small fraction.
Sometimes it is that little bit that makes every part of the hunt count.
Not to say that I want to get rid of being able to take a 100dmg shotgun up to a level 5 mob and not get anything out of it, you've got lots of bits and pieces presumably... :p VS a 10dmg shotgun against a level 5 mob, then you have bruises and little shrapnel all up in and around the mob. Some people like their meat pounded, but the bones might not be so qualitative, the hide may seem a little rough. Your mind makes decisions for you based on how you've chosen to accept being put in certain conditions.

Maybe Make a quantity over quality status could be made based on our skills except on a low margin so that loot isn't drastically effected but can be positively effected by your choices of damage type, weapon type, and or so on and so forth.
 
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Kain Dewey Fall

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I think I have said too much out of eagerness to express my opinion >_< :D It was fun while it lasted.
 

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I really don't get those negative comments. It will work perfectly if mob vulnerability will be added, especially in loot 2.0. This will result in better dpp (more kills at same cost = cheaper gameplay) and economy boost (more MU for selected wepons). Yes, you migh want to buy some extra weapons, but you are not forced to. Ofc, adding defence to mobs and nerfing some guns that way would be a bad idea, but i can't see any harm by adding vulnerability to mobs
 

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I really don't get those negative comments. It will work perfectly if mob vulnerability will be added, especially in loot 2.0. This will result in better dpp (more kills at same cost = cheaper gameplay) and economy boost (more MU for selected wepons). Yes, you migh want to buy some extra weapons, but you are not forced to. Ofc, adding defence to mobs and nerfing some guns that way would be a bad idea, but i can't see any harm by adding vulnerability to mobs

May I ask where you see difference between vulnerabillity and protection?

Its the same for me.

If a mob has protection against every dmg type except cut, then this mob is vulnurable to cut, speak pick a sword to kill that mob, as it is most efficent.

If a mob has a protection against every dmg type except burn, well vulnurable to burn, use a laser weapon here.

If a mob has protection against nothing but burn, simply DONT use a laser rifle.

For me it would add more deapth, the weapon of choice would make an difference.

Makes the game more complex, many dont like such complex gameplay.
Beside that the steps taken by MA in the past was in opposite direction (simplification).

They made mining easyer (need only one finder and only one refiner these days)
They removed M/L ammo, only 1 ammo type left and even added UNI ammo that can used for both BLP and Laser.

So its unlikely that MA will introduce something that makes the game more complex, more likely to get even more simplification to make that game easyer to play for a larger amount of players instead making it more complex and more difficult to play.

Me as a fan of complex games, would prefer the other way, but the bigger part of players prefer as simple as possible.

I think for this idea it is very unlike it will ever happen.
 
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