Shop/Auction House truce

[Lerp]

Ive been at war with the Auction House for some time.
You- the readers of PCF have told me no again and again.
You like the Auction House and you want to keep it the way it is.
Ive allways seen this as unfair to shop owners.

I have a new idea to end this war of the shops vrs the Auction House.
I hope you find it fair and are willing to vote YES on it.

All items placed in shops for sale; will have the free option for a buyout listing in the AuctionHouse.
The listing will last as long as the item is in the shop and the shops location will be listed in the Auction House with the item.
The owner of the mall will agree to pay half of the tax from such sale to the Auction House if it is sold through the AH.

this request has been changed in the thread. Now all we ask for is an ingame searchable listing of all shops items.

 

[Magyar_Republic]

Hey I'm not a fan of the auction house either. I also think it undermines shop owners.

That being said, the shop system itself is weak. Shops need a staff to be run properly, but with staff unable to maintain a shop there's very little value there and its very restrictive. The shop system needs to be looked at for ways to increase both its flexibility and its viability.

Until that's done the Auction House trumps shops in most respects due to the user friendly nature of it both for buyers and sellers.

I am however voting no on this because this gives the auction house more power, and will ultimately result in the reduction of foot traffic in shops. It accomplishes the opposite of what is ultimately desired.

 

[Lerp]

The shops would need little foot trafic if the items were placed in Auction House when placed in the shop.
Shops would still have value because one would not need to pay for the Auction House fees and longer listing.
The mall or land owners would get more ped even at half tax because much more sales would happen and MA would still get a cut.
Players could continue to sell at Auction House and find more items to buy.
More advertisement on the shops because of shop location in the Auction House listing.
More rare items would be listed in the Auction House.
I would shut up because we would come to a truce on this Auction House war of mine.

 

[Dwiss]

Foottraffic is the real point here - with a dense distribution of TPs all over the place and vehicles on top of it poeple are just not walking, running etc anymore. So the general lazyness of players will be your main concern. Its not the auction house keeping your customers away , but lazyness of people, lack of proper marketing like advertising at crowded places etc.

I remember that there where players hired earlier back then in 2008 i.e. to run around and advertise the stuff that could be found in shops - not happening anymore today

 

[KijkkiJikki]

As a shop owner I have no problem with the auction house. I still useit to buy and sell. And I get good turnover in my shop also.

I just want to see some tools available to enhance shops. Shop directories of various sorts have been added to development wish lists by many people over the years.

 

[Zorander]

To put shops on par with the AH there needs to be a searchable shop directory. This could be part of the AH, it could be a separate tool that MA gives us, or it could be a website that someone makes. A third party website would take work, building it, keeping it updated, and advertising its existence, but it's a way to get it done without waiting for MA to fix your problems for you.

If I'm looking for a particular item and don't want to pay AH prices or can't find it on the AH I'll do a google search for entropia shops. I find the item I'm looking for more often than not. I think a shop listing website would do well if shop owners took the time to maintain their inventory lists on it.

 

[SODERD]

No, i dont want my shop prices in AU...

thats just NOT a good idea.

But im all for more trafic in the malls... guess its the shop owners fault.

lots of shops are empty or almost empty. if all shops where filled with usable items we might have more trafic.

im doing my best to keeps my shops filled and i got pretty good trafic.

Its way to easy to use the AU... there should be a pickup feature. where you have to pickup the goods where someone placed it in AU. and the fee should be higher.

 

[Few Scars]

No, i dont want my shop prices in AU...

thats just NOT a good idea.

But im all for more trafic in the malls... guess its the shop owners fault.

lots of shops are empty or almost empty. if all shops where filled with usable items we might have more trafic.

im doing my best to keeps my shops filled and i got pretty good trafic.

Its way to easy to use the AU... there should be a pickup feature. where you have to pickup the goods where someone placed it in AU. and the fee should be higher.

Only 6 shopping booths on Arkadia, one already is inactive...how sad

 

[Lerp]

To put shops on par with the AH there needs to be a searchable shop directory. This could be part of the AH, it could be a separate tool that MA gives us, or it could be a website that someone makes. A third party website would take work, building it, keeping it updated, and advertising its existence, but it's a way to get it done without waiting for MA to fix your problems for you.

If I'm looking for a particular item and don't want to pay AH prices or can't find it on the AH I'll do a google search for entropia shops. I find the item I'm looking for more often than not. I think a shop listing website would do well if shop owners took the time to maintain their inventory lists on it.

I guess like in war and sales one needs to barter.
I would be willing to give in to a listing of all items and the locations of the items.
It must be ingame. An auto listing of such items as they are placed in the shops.

 

[Pig]

Having items in shops listed through auction would de-value shops tremendously. If I still had my shop I would hate to see that.

A npc or a sign that Lists shops/Items and location or coordinates to the shop would probably be the best option here. It would have to have a search function.

 

[Thorns Rose]

Both!!

I use both! I just ran into Emeralds Mall there and bought pants really quick the other day before being summoned to MS..because I didn't have time to shop auction (would be so much easier if colors were displayed in clothes on auction so you don't have to pop open each one..who has time for that?) So the shop was easier to run into for me to grab what I saw and run back to TP. So I just love to shop and love both!

 

[Lerp]

Having items in shops listed through auction would de-value shops tremendously. If I still had my shop I would hate to see that.

A npc or a sign that Lists shops/Items and location or coordinates to the shop would probably be the best option here. It would have to have a search function.

I also would be happy with such a function.

In defense of the AH idea. I would say that it is used by all players.
Shop value would grow greatly because expencive items would not cost to list only if they sell and then only at the malls set tax. Also one could list expencive items for unlimited time as long as it still sits in the shop.
Also players would not have to venture into lag prone malls to purchase your item.. Yes they dont get to enjoy your shop but if they purchase an item I would bet they stop by to check you out.

I would accept peace between the Auction House and the Shops on your terms. Vote Yes.

 

[Menace]

-AU prices are cheaper.
-AU sellers price thier goods according to the MU when they listed the item.... unlike SOME shop owners who put an item for sale weeks ago and MU has since dropped.
-No clue where to find a specific item in shops (End up wasting 3 hrs of my life that I'll never get back only to find that there is none of whatever I'm looking for ANYWHERE in shops).

Problem is.... AU is just WAY WAY WAY more convenient for the buyer. Work on your advertising, listing your items somewhere, upating prices twice a day, keep stock up, etc, etc, etc, and.... oh wait... you don't have time for all of that? Ok... I'll shop at Auction House then.

Menace

 

[GoNi]

I remember that there where players hired earlier back then in 2008 i.e. to run around and advertise the stuff that could be found in shops - not happening anymore today

I remember when we had taming, and could place named PETs with adverts at crowded locations

 

[Magyar_Republic]

I also would be happy with such a function.

In defense of the AH idea. I would say that it is used by all players.
Shop value would grow greatly because expencive items would not cost to list only if they sell and then only at the malls set tax. Also one could list expencive items for unlimited time as long as it still sits in the shop.
Also players would not have to venture into lag prone malls to purchase your item.. Yes they dont get to enjoy your shop but if they purchase an item I would bet they stop by to check you out.

I would accept peace between the Auction House and the Shops on your terms. Vote Yes.

I accept the fact that this would allow a way for shop owners to list their ites on the AH as a bonus.

That being said, where is the market value in a shop then? Its pretty much hard coded. Got 120 slots in your shop? Then you get X free auction listings.

Since nobody will actually set foot in your shop, the auction lists are what gives your shop value now.

So what stops auction lists themselve from being sold. Pay X fee per month and you get X auction lists free.

What are shops worth again?

Depends not on the shop location, but on the value of auction listings per month.

Again bringing me back to my point. This is a really bad idea.

 

[Lerp]

I accept the fact that this would allow a way for shop owners to list their ites on the AH as a bonus.
That being said, where is the market value in a shop then? Its pretty much hard coded. Got 120 slots in your shop? Then you get X free auction listings.
Since nobody will actually set foot in your shop, the auction lists are what gives your shop value now.
So what stops auction lists themselve from being sold. Pay X fee per month and you get X auction lists free.
What are shops worth again?
Depends not on the shop location, but on the value of auction listings per month.
Again bringing me back to my point. This is a really bad idea.

"This is a really bad idea." Bla bla bla mr scrooge
Do you have an offer of a way to allow more use out of the shops or would you like to see them empty forever.
I have owned and used shops and they just dont get the sales that the Auction House does even if I place items for cheaper then the AH and it cost me 10s of thousands of peds to own.
I enjoy setting up shop. I spend peds on furniture. I spend peds to buy your items to put in my shop. I spend peds to advertise the shop. Its a doll house.

After years of debate all we ask is for a listing of the items in the shop. It would be ok not to have them in the Auction House but an ingame listing of items and locations is at least a good step.
I am happy you took the time to find peace in this debate.

 

[Svarog]

Properly organized shops don't suffer from AH. AH is just a huge pile of junk, you never know what you'll find there and for what price. Sometimes there are good offers but it's not guaranteed. On the other hand, I perfectly know where to go to buy the L guns and faps I use, cheap enhancers, special clothes, textures and colors, whatever. Owners who cherish their shops are never short of loyal customers. And those neglected shops that are just dusty collections of random stuff - let their owners go bankrupt and sell them to someone who will care

 

[Lerp]

Properly organized shops don't suffer from AH. AH is just a huge pile of junk, you never know what you'll find there and for what price. Sometimes there are good offers but it's not guaranteed. On the other hand, I perfectly know where to go to buy the L guns and faps I use, cheap enhancers, special clothes, textures and colors, whatever. Owners who cherish their shops are never short of loyal customers. And those neglected shops that are just dusty collections of random stuff - let their owners go bankrupt and sell them to someone who will care

Maybe on the world where you play. On Calypso or the astroid this is not the case.
If your world has a better shop set up maybe we could learn what makes it so.

If I had something to sell on Calypso and a shop in the twin peaks mall.
I could price the item the same and the one in the Auction House would sell.
The mall shop would get just a few visits a day and of thoes the player looking to buy said item would not be one of them. I spend my time hunting. I dont find the fun in standing out on the street asking players to come to my shop.
Or posting it on the forums. If I was to do that then I may as well just sell the item on the street or on the forum.

How many honestly think there is nothing wrong with the shops vrs the Auction House.
Come visit my dust collection. Its a health hazard.

 

[KijkkiJikki]

I have owned and used shops and they just dont get the sales that the Auction House does even if I place items for cheaper then the AH and it cost me 10s of thousands of peds to own.

Then you're doing it wrong.

Pick your goods. Pick your price point. Advertise.

Having said that, I do favour setup of an in game shop directory.

 

[GoNi]

Maybe on the world where you play. On Calypso or the astroid this is not the case.

Sorry you have no clue!

There are some very good shops at Calypso that surely have a good sales rate.

Well known crafters operate them, always stocked and mostly cheaper than auction.
Other shops have some nice UBER toys stocked, and if I hit a nice UBER that may lead to an upgrade of my gear, I absolutely know where to find the toys I am interested in. Well these shops don´t have that much sales, but nice markups, and very likely nice profit for that shopowners with only one sale

If you like shops, take the time and visit all shops at Calypso, then you will learn about those shops that definately will be successful.

Once a month I take the time to visit other shops aswell, but damn yeah. Mostly waste of time, so that I go back to the well known shops, where I get what I want.

On the other side, there are some shops set to private. Those are surely well operated aswell.
Its that well operated that shopowner needs to lock it for resellers to be able to offer his customers a proper supply of good priced items, without the risk of resellers buying out all his goods and list it for a profit at auction.

 

[Lerp]

Sorry you have no clue!
There are some very good shops at Calypso that surely have a good sales rate.
Well known crafters operate them, always stocked and mostly cheaper than auction.
Other shops have some nice UBER toys stocked, and if I hit a nice UBER that may lead to an upgrade of my gear, I absolutely know where to find the toys I am interested in. Well these shops don´t have that much sales, but nice markups, and very likely nice profit for that shopowners with only one sale
If you like shops, take the time and visit all shops at Calypso, then you will learn about those shops that definately will be successful.
Once a month I take the time to visit other shops aswell, but damn yeah. Mostly waste of time, so that I go back to the well known shops, where I get what I want.
On the other side, there are some shops set to private. Those are surely well operated aswell.
Its that well operated that shopowner needs to lock it for resellers to be able to offer his customers a proper supply of good priced items, without the risk of resellers buying out all his goods and list it for a profit at auction.

yes yes yes Uber this and Uber that.
We have a need to allow the not so advanced players who want to buy a shop to enjoy it also.

What if I wanted to place my iron stone in my shop? How long do you think it would take to sell?
One day on the Auction House. 1% cheaper in my shop. It never sold. Do you see a problem?

Im not saying that the Auction House has no function. I just trying to open it up for more use.
To end the feeling players have when they search the shops or when they buy one for the first time.

All im asking for now is an ingame listing of items in the shops. Not for an invite into a 'to uber for me' shop.

 

[Svarog]

What if I wanted to place my iron stone in my shop? How long do you think it would take to sell?
One day on the Auction House. 1% cheaper in my shop. It never sold. Do you see a problem?

Forever, if it's a casual bunch of iron from your loot.
Hours, if you're an ore trader who're known to always have iron in stock, especially if it's 1% cheaper than AH.

 

[deanie]

I would like to see a new (extra) tab in the auction interface for shop goods with price, quantity and location details. This should be automatic (or opt in/out?) and free for all shops (no I do not own a shop nor plan to). It should also have a search function.

Most importantly the shop items must then be bought at the shop itself. I would travel to a shop when time or my mood permits for this.

As shop fees and auction fees are incompatible then the ability to buy shop goods directly from auction would hurt the smaller players trying to auction their goods, but the ability to look at both options, choose and then buy the auction good on the spot or travel to the shop to buy it if I want to would be very nice.

I would also like to see shops listed with buy orders which I can visit and then sell my junk(valuables?) to instead of stockpiling in my bank until I have a saleable quantity or spending a lot of playtime finding a buyer.

So yes to listings, no to the ability to purchase shop goods through auction.

 

[ArieJVW]

yes yes yes Uber this and Uber that.
We have a need to allow the not so advanced players who want to buy a shop to enjoy it also.

What if I wanted to place my iron stone in my shop? How long do you think it would take to sell?
One day on the Auction House. 1% cheaper in my shop. It never sold. Do you see a problem?

Im not saying that the Auction House has no function. I just trying to open it up for more use.
To end the feeling players have when they search the shops or when they buy one for the first time.

All im asking for now is an ingame listing of items in the shops. Not for an invite into a 'to uber for me' shop.

The way you have replied here, I think you have not under stood the OP.
What he is trying to say is learn to run your shop properly, and the shops that are well stocked and have good prices will have customers constantly returning.

Auction and shops have lived together this long, and after doing your research before buying your shop you would have known this, but yet you want to change how it works to make it easier for yourself?

I own a LA, should I request seeing the player base is spreading out as more area not only on calypso but other planets has been introduced my LA should grow in size respectively? No

I think you’re just being negative and a bit lazy to work a little harder in promoting your shop.

Regards Inno

 

[Lerp]

The way you have replied here, I think you have not under stood the OP.
What he is trying to say is learn to run your shop properly, and the shops that are well stocked and have good prices will have customers constantly returning.

Auction and shops have lived together this long, and after doing your research before buying your shop you would have known this, but yet you want to change how it works to make it easier for yourself?

I own a LA, should I request seeing the player base is spreading out as more area not only on calypso but other planets has been introduced my LA should grow in size respectively? No

I think you’re just being negative and a bit lazy to work a little harder in promoting your shop.

Regards Inno

In defense of player owned LA. I think all land in Entropia should be player owned but that is for another topic.

Yes I am lazy.
Yes I want to improve it for myself: boath to sell items in shops and to find items in them.
Yes I do not communicate the best in forums and can sound negative.
It is the basis of the thread to point out a negative and show how a positive could work for us all.

All I ask is for an ingame listing of the shop items and the location of the shop.
Active shop owners could still bring in more costomers by the work they do.
Shop prices across the board would grow because they would be more usefull.

I understand the Auction House is a major revenue for MA.
I also believe that a growth in the player owned shop system would cause more retention of players.
More items to sit on shelves.
I would even be willing to accept a fee for such listing as long as it stayed untill the item sold or was removed.
Just shed some light into the darkness of the shop system.


When MA first announced free rent.
I was the only one to say 'sounding negitive'
"We dont want mom and dad to pay our rent. We want to be able to pay our rent ourself."
I stand by that today.

A few active players who have much time and effort can make the shops work.
For the rest of us they are a place to sit our loot and watch as it never gets enough attention to sell.

MA wanted to fix the shop problem and a listing of shop items would do this.

I would like my simple loot items to have the same chance to sell in the shop as they do in the Auction House.
Its just more fun that way.
I even paid 1000s of extra peds to do it and would be willing to pay more fees to have them listed.

You do have the power to shape the future of Entropia.
Listen to the message not the messenger.
If you dont agree to the change we have put forth then please let us know what you think would be an acceptable solution to the undervalued shop system.

 

[RobBuona]

Yeah. And let's shut down Newegg because they have lower prices than Best Buy and I can buy from them while virtually anywhere (including not leaving my house).

But what you are suggesting would give shop owners an advantage over the auction - so yet another way in which you lose unless you have huge PEDs to invest. EU needs more ways in which those without tons of PEDs can do well early on - not fewer ways.

 

[DRDoom]

A shop listing with the available items would be great.

Just checking where an item can be found in what should be great, not even necessary to list the price with it.
Prices in the shops are usually better, but if I have to run for half an hour, shop in , shop out, opening shopkeepers, I just rather pay a coupe of ped extra in AH.

 

[GoNi]

Yeah. And let's shut down Newegg because they have lower prices than Best Buy and I can buy from them while virtually anywhere (including not leaving my house).

But what you are suggesting would give shop owners an advantage over the auction - so yet another way in which you lose unless you have huge PEDs to invest. EU needs more ways in which those without tons of PEDs can do well early on - not fewer ways.

No it wouldn´t be an advantage.

If shop items are listed at auction with prices, surely auction traders would undercut the shopprices (as they already do it with auction prices), therefor shopowner would have to go down with price again.
Actually auction traders may undercut other auction prices, but never the shop prices. Imho many don´t even know at what prices some goods are offered in shops. And that is good that way, those who do the work and search for the good jobs, can make a good deal.
That advantage would have been eliminated with shop items at auction, as it would be directly compareable, and the pricefight would definately start.


Edit:
I am absolutely for a shopdirectory, but not merged to auction.
It has to be seperated terminals, and not everywhere available.
Limit it to one terminal at each Mall, that would be more than enough!