Should Sweaters Gang Up and Raise the Price?

[dr3w]

Sweat won't help the player retention. There needs to be a way for new players to stay long enough to get hooked. Sweating is not that. Nor, will supporting sweaters support the game mechanics of EU.

~Danimal

Wrong.

While sweating, player seeing MAPM™, globbage and hoffage in it. It is the most important part. For long time, he is tempting to try real playing to became globohoffer himself, but...

Bingo.

Real playing requires real money. Here we go - just small part keeps sweating for long time. Most of those wannabees - deposits. And from that moment they're on their own.

Simple systems works.

 

[Xavier Target]

Seems to me anyone who sweats a long time is either not able to deposit, or simply unwilling to deposit. Depositing $10 to try some game features shouldn't be a big deal to someone who has the potential to become a regular depositing player. I believe the best purpose of sweating is to give players an additional activity to occupy time between deposits. If all the newer free missions that have been added don't get someone interested in depositing then they probably never will.

Soc based team opallo hunting is the most fun I get out of this game and you don't need a lot of ped to participate.

 

[Tycoon]

I will not thank the sweaters. For one the only income coming into the game is from depositors. Sweaters are creating no residual income what so ever for MindArk. The peds being spent from the sweat sales are from depositors. You can't create extra income from these deposited funds when MindArk has already made money off of the initial deposit. It is like this:

I give someone $1.00 and they spend it to purchase a candy bar for $1.00. What's to say instead of me giving someone that $1.00 to spend on the candy bar I do it myself. Either way the end result is only $1.00 was spent even though the money may have transfered hands a few times it is already in the system.

I still fail to see how sweaters whom, I've observed sweating naked, for peds generates revenue for anybody.

I'm not saying they are generating any revenues exactly... what I mean is everything they take out goes right back in! They are breaking even at best (start with 0, end with 0... +skills), but for sure not just take take take!

and what they give back is the sweat, which makes ME & Welding Wire!
(I know they sell it, but then they use up that ped, not withdraw)

I've never heard of a non-depositor who sweats all day, sells the sweat, banks the ped and withdraws it later!
I've also never heard of a non-depositor who sweats all day, sells the sweat, buys guns & ammo/finders & bombs, sells their loot, banks the ped and withdraws later!...

These people spend it all and don't withdraw, and the result is a fun little community, Mind Essence & Welding Wire!

I'm thankful I don't have to sweat, because people are doin' it for me!

And I see no reason for anyone to look down on them or call them freeloaders!

 

[Spawn]

Dont BS a BS'r : ) You and I both know what the price of sweat was when we started playing. I sweated for all of 1 week and that set me up with a rifle, ammo orefinder, enmatterfinder, excavator, bombs and probes.



That's not meant to be a "Remember when" statement, just a statement of fact. The new players today have it very much harder. And ther eis a reason MA doesn't publish the number of "Active" players.

So right now you dont have to sweat at all and you get rifles, pistol, longblade, ammo, mining tool 50 probes, 3 vehicles, armour, clothes, scanner and then some.
you don't have to do any tp-hunting, since you have either the hoverpod the arctic chopper or the 4x4 arctic to get them.
you get a reward when graduating as a disciple now which also includes yet another vehicle + a full armour set.

doing the free missions will get you 30 peds worht of tokens + a realllllly decent amount of skills for free.

here;'s the list of all the mission a complete noob with a hoverpod or chopper can do:

Mission Reward Mission Broker Location
A grave errand first aid skill 0.5 ped skill & 100 nova fragments Jessica Hammersmark 74375 67320
A private msg from Psyche (1 point) camp echidna 79491 87882
Deliver food&parts 1 Mission token Chris Dover 55189 60131
Deliver the mining info 1 Mission token Mark Patterson 52234 64137
Scout the area 25 nova fragments Horace quinn 20256 39671
Jameson's reach 1 Mission token Mac Dillon 40409 58689
Missing miner 2 Mission tokens P.B. Jay 40445 58713
Missing Person 1 Mission token Tommy collins 55556 58713
Monitor Genesis star 500 nova fragments Mr Lyndon 81140 72666
Mysterious Rocks 2 Mission tokens Dr Truman 52230 64148
Note of recommend. 1 Mission token Mac Dillon 40409 58689
Report to Fort Victoria 1 Mission token Tommy collins 55556 61803
Scan the robots soil sm 125 nova fragments Matthew book 75052 72651
Scout for naval base 1 mission token Chris Dover 55189 60131
Scout the desert 25 nova fragments 83887 78154
Scout the hades crater 25 nova fragments 62961 82499
Scout the hills 25 nova fragments 76816 79118
Scout the island 25 nova fragments 69458 88736
Scout the jungle 25 nova fragments 80599 70479
Scout the tundra 25 nova fragments 83537 93374
Steal from the miners 2 mission tokens Conrad Christmas 51589 63663
Stolen goods 1 mission token Chris Dover 55189 60131
Strange stones 1 mission token Tommy collins 55556 61803
Tap into genesis star evade 1 ped implant + 500 nova Mr Lyndon 81140 72666
The long march Athletics 0.01 implant Leo phoenix 77744 76691
The missing piece computer 1 ped imlnat + 500 nova Anna Bjorkdottir 79537 68377
The pub crawl Psyche 1 point Nestor Bakshi 68254 79070
The short Cut Athletics 0.01 implant Leo Phoenix 77744 76691
The spanner Diploma Operation Hammerhead Colonel Briers
The trail to the east Athletics 0.01 implant Swamp camp 62015 75560
The volcanic rocks 2 mission tokens Thomas Keyes
Transport info 1 mission token Conrad Christmas 51589 63663
Travel to the next camp 1 mission token Vayne Ashe
Tune Genesis star sens. 125 nova fragments Fort troy 80488 68318
Twin peaks express Athletics 0.01 implant Nestor Bakshi 68254 79070
Visit the mining camp 1 mission token Bill Goldstien 54236 60487
Visit the whaling camp 1 mission token Bill Goldstien 54236 60487
Water sample 3 mission tokens Eric Thompson 40436 58696
The boat claw 2 mission tokens Sandra Johnson 51770 60354
Explore the coast 1 mission token Chris Dover 55189 60131
Exploring the area 1 mission token soldier& base falcon 55343 62012
Find the missing ship 2 mission tokens Eric Thompson 40436 58696
Find Varinia Intelligence 1 points Adam 20254 39627
For discree aplicants 125 nova fragments mission terminal 80488 68318
Go along 1 mission token Buddy noes 40567 58554
Go to research camp 2 mission tokens explorer David spellman 54225 64910
Into the volcano combat reflexes 1 ped impl. + 500 nova matthew book 75052 72651

If you do all the missions you will have 31 mission tokens.

you call that bs? I call that easy peasy...

that's fact. not fiction or the good old days.

 

[bigdaddy trim]

Hey,

Who votes that all sweaters should gang up and not sell sweat for less than 15 PED/1k?

Honestly, it's so bad at this point people are actually trying to buy sweat at 1-1.5 PED/1k! I say things need to change! Down with the 1-2 PED/1k, up with 15 PED/1k! This tyrannical rule of continually lower sweat prices must stop! It's time to raise up a new golden age for sweaters all over the EU and sell higher!

BattleAxe

P.S. Meant to make this a poll... Oops

I guess you gave up as i have just seen you at PA port selling it 1 k for 2 ped.

 

[Tycoon]

thanks for the list Spawn!... I'm going to do everything!

All that stuff won't last very long though once you start to spend it away!

better than nuthin' though!

 

[maxwellhawk]

I think the best idea I've seen so far is the fuel/sweat mixture. The me usage has been affected by the introduction of vehicles and that probably caused the largest impact on sweaters. Av's previously for the most part used me for tp chips as mf use commonly was not very attractive due to economics. So in an effort to reclaim some balance from the shifting of this part of the economy I wouldn't think implementing something like a refined product "gasoline" would upset the economic apple cart to much.

 

[BattleAxe]

I guess you gave up as i have just seen you at PA port selling it 1 k for 2 ped.

Yep.

For some reason, it seems no one seems to think quite as revolutionarily as me, and thus no one joined the cause... So, I'm disbanding SHRT.

 

[Jennson]

Yep.

For some reason, it seems no one seems to think quite as revolutionarily as me, and thus no one joined the cause... So, I'm disbanding SHRT.

Try to go through Spawn'S list. There are wonderful places and free adventrues. Giving small rewards also.

 

[Uvas]

Yep.

For some reason, it seems no one seems to think quite as revolutionarily as me, and thus no one joined the cause... So, I'm disbanding SHRT.

Your thinking is not revolutionary at all. Every statist and collectivist of every hue and ilk has tried this sort of extortionist plot.

Go to any public school system teacher's union and listen in to them whining and moaning that if they only received little MORE money, their product would be better.

 

[Majstorex]

And I see no reason for anyone to look down on them or call them freeloaders!

noone is lookin down on them, but you can be sure that people dont like it when someone suggests they should be payed more for afk clicking.

Why shouldnt i call them freeloaders are they depositors maybe?

non-depositing sweater = freeloader

 

[Tycoon]

noone is lookin down on them, but you can be sure that people dont like it when someone suggests they should be payed more for afk clicking.

Why shouldnt i call them freeloaders are they depositors maybe?

non-depositing sweater = freeloader

you call those massive sweat profits "getting paid" huh?

I'm betting you use a TP chip and RK-5...
And I doubt you collect your own sweat to make your ME and WW...

so no, they're not freeloaders! They contribute!

 

[Majstorex]

you call those massive sweat profits "getting paid" huh?

I'm betting you use a TP chip and RK-5...
And I doubt you collect your own sweat to make your ME and WW...

so no, they're not freeloaders! They contribute!

well i do use a TP chipbut not a RK.

And youll be surprised waht ill tell you next. When i need sweat i go out and sweat atrox with armor, sync chip and i also kill the mob in the end.

And when you say contribute, well now the bum that begs for money on the street is a part of a citys organism aswell, but he dont realy contribute to it much, even thou he spends the cash he gets on vine, keep in mind cash he gets would get spend anyways, same here with peds that sweaters get.

regards Maj

 

[Tycoon]

...And when you say contribute, well now the bum that begs for money on the street is a part of a citys organism aswell, but he dont realy contribute to it much, even thou he spends the cash he gets on vine, keep in mind cash he gets would get spend anyways, same here with peds that sweaters get...

If the guy that owns the liquor store has only these bums for customers, I bet he doesn't consider them freeloaders! (even if others say they are)

they pay his rent, just like sweaters let you TP!

and a lot of "bums" don't want to be just a bum, just as a lot of sweaters don't want to be just a sweater!

A lot of people aren't thankful for bums, but that liquor store owner is... everyone who uses a sweat product like Mind Essence or Welding Wire should be thankful for sweaters!

 

[Zhaal]

133 replies to this post....absolutely amazing!

Maybe it's time this thread is closed down. Please? Someone?

 

[Majstorex]

If the guy that owns the liquor store has only these bums for customers, I bet he doesn't consider them freeloaders! (even if others say they are)

they pay his rent, just like sweaters let you TP!

and a lot of "bums" don't want to be just a bum, just as a lot of sweaters don't want to be just a sweater!

A lot of people aren't thankful for bums, but that liquor store owner is... everyone who uses a sweat product like Mind Essence or Welding Wire should be thankful for sweaters!

lets get some facts straight,

sweaters are not the ones that let me TP, they are completly irelevant to me in gameplay sense, i realy hope you understand that, ok i admit that at one time i was skilling biotropic on them at Neas, i burned up some 100 feild chips, which were sellin for 200% than....
but when they come here with suggestions how to gang up and raise the MV which comes down to the depositors, they become my problem...

and the liquor store compare isnt realy inplace here since its a direct 3rd party, better replace liqour store with the one whos taxing you and i ask you again, how does the bum contribute to economy of city/country?

you must have some problems reading what i write obviusly, couse im preety sure i told you once allready that the money given to the bum would get spend anyways.

 

[Tycoon]

lets get some facts straight,

sweaters are not the ones that let me TP, they are completly irelevant to me in gameplay sense, i realy hope you understand that, ok i admit that at one time i was skilling biotropic on them at Neas, i burned up some 100 feild chips, which were sellin for 200% than....
but when they come here with suggestions how to gang up and raise the MV which comes down to the depositors, they become my problem...

and the liquor store compare isnt realy inplace here since its a direct 3rd party, better replace liqour store with the one whos taxing you and i ask you again, how does the bum contribute to economy of city/country?

you must have some problems reading what i write obviusly, couse im preety sure i told you once allready that the money given to the bum would get spend anyways.

maybe the sweaters don't contribute anything to you the way you play...

but they contribute to most people, the way the vast majority plays!

 

[MIND]

how does the bum contribute to economy of city/country?

well...

the bum buys liquor.

the owner gets money.

the owner pays taxes to the country.

that doesent contribute to the country?

(i am not here for any flaming just putting my comment here.)

 

[Majstorex]

133 replies to this post....absolutely amazing!

Maybe it's time this thread is closed down. Please? Someone?

no no, let the mods leave it open to disscusion, how people want to "gang up" and tripple the price of something that is free to get in first place.

closing this thread, would only couse that another intusiastic newbie to open a new one in 3-6 months and we would have the story repeated than

 

[Majstorex]

well...

the bum buys liquor.

the owner gets money.

the owner pays taxes to the country.

that doesent contribute to the country?

(i am not here for any flaming just putting my comment here.)

you are right in all accounts,

think of it like this:

bum doesnt get liqour, couse he gets no cash.

owner still gets the cash, since I buy milk and bread.

the owner pays taxes to the country.

so the owner does contribute to the country, but what does the country get from the bum?

so till people will be paying for sweat to the ones that only input is sweating and than spending amount, you can rest assured the price willonly go down and down.

Another thing, more and more people are gathering sweat they need themselves, get a friend and you can get 2k in little over 2 hours each(unless something got nerfed badly since last time i sweated), realy why would you want to pay for something that is so easy obtainable?

 

[Tycoon]

cuz I hate to sweat!

it's boring, makes me sleepy

I deposit, and buy Mind Essence and Welding Wire!

 

[wizzszz]

Sweating is meant to give people an opportunity to try the game without depositing.

It is not meant to fund your playing for years.


Actually, if you don't have any goals beyond sweating, it's pointless to do even that.


I coldn't care less if players form a "sweat price cartel", i usually pay more than market for the bit of sweat i need for my TP chips, but on the rare occasions that i buy, i try to support soc mates.

 

[PkmX]

you are right in all accounts,

think of it like this:

bum doesnt get liqour, couse he gets no cash.

owner still gets the cash, since I buy milk and bread.

the owner pays taxes to the country.

so the owner does contribute to the country, but what does the country get from the bum?

so till people will be paying for sweat to the ones that only input is sweating and than spending amount, you can rest assured the price willonly go down and down.

Another thing, more and more people are gathering sweat they need themselves, get a friend and you can get 2k in little over 2 hours each(unless something got nerfed badly since last time i sweated), realy why would you want to pay for something that is so easy obtainable?

The analog here is flawed. Sweaters are not getting PED by doing absolutely nothing, they are getting PEDs by providing a service.

A better analog is that the bum is now barber, a not very good one but he gets the job done quickly. Now people are paying him to get shaved, he then pays tax by the money he earned. Of course, people could have shaved themselves, but they didn't bother to do that and decides to pay the barber some money for that job.

Now, consider the sweaters. The sweater gathers sweats and others pay him PED to buy them, he then uses the PED to hunt, mine or craft, which in turn pays tax to MA. Of course, people could also have sweated themselves, but that is too boring for them so that they would just pay the sweater to do that.

 

[Uvas]

I like your analogy, it seems to be more on the mark.

The barber analogy, that is...

 

[Majstorex]

The analog here is flawed. Sweaters are not getting PED by doing absolutely nothing, they are getting PEDs by providing a service.

A better analog is that the bum is now barber, a not very good one but he gets the job done quickly. Now people are paying him to get shaved, he then pays tax by the money he earned. Of course, people could have shaved themselves, but they didn't bother to do that and decides to pay the barber some money for that job.

Now, consider the sweaters. The sweater gathers sweats and others pay him PED to buy them, he then uses the PED to hunt, mine or craft, which in turn pays tax to MA. Of course, people could also have sweated themselves, but that is too boring for them so that they would just pay the sweater to do that.

well your analog is wrong aswell.

were at the point where we call sweating "work" again.

People that call afk sweating work, have never seen real work in their life. Come to my construction site and ill show you what it means to work.

 

[Farmer Smurf]

id say its as much work as afk crafting items we all use.

 

[Luckycharm]

Does anyone here remember the guy called "nep"?

 

[bigdaddy trim]

I am going to have agree with wizzszz

Sweating is meant to give people an opportunity to try the game without depositing.

It is not meant to fund your playing for years.


Actually, if you don't have any goals beyond sweating, it's pointless to do even that.


I coldn't care less if players form a "sweat price cartel", i usually pay more than market for the bit of sweat i need for my TP chips, but on the rare occasions that i buy, i try to support soc mates.

and PkmX

The analog here is flawed. Sweaters are not getting PED by doing absolutely nothing, they are getting PEDs by providing a service.

A better analog is that the bum is now barber, a not very good one but he gets the job done quickly. Now people are paying him to get shaved, he then pays tax by the money he earned. Of course, people could have shaved themselves, but they didn't bother to do that and decides to pay the barber some money for that job.

Now, consider the sweaters. The sweater gathers sweats and others pay him PED to buy them, he then uses the PED to hunt, mine or craft, which in turn pays tax to MA. Of course, people could also have sweated themselves, but that is too boring for them so that they would just pay the sweater to do that.

I belive the sweaters do play their role in the econamy as more bp need sweat and missions, many players will not want to sweat as its boreing as hell, but i think it should be for new players to learn the game to get skills and ped. Then they can decide if they want to stay. They can move on to other things after a while taxi, paramedic, trader that you dont have to deposit, but have to work hard. If they join a soc and make friends they will be able to preform these tasks.

 

[Majstorex]

id say its as much work as afk crafting items we all use.

I agree with you, but youre twisting the point here a bit.
People that come home from their job, when they log on, they dont consider this being more work, they consider themselves playing the game, while with the pro sweaters you will hear every second one telling you how much effort and work hes put in....

 

[Farmer Smurf]

Ah see your point, No its not work if it was my lazy ass wouldn't do it

But until some smart PP creates fishing, sweating is a very relaxing way to play with the mobs and does in fact produce something useful to the EU world. I enjoy the activity and hate to see it get put down as much as it does. Though I understand the people that expect sales or certain prices are a pia