Some reseller is crapping his pants

[Tigerman]

Now what's realy gonna make the reseller mad is when he finds out how meny dante's NZR/Dekel allready have in his storage... I hope this reseller learn a lesson. Anyone not a noob wouldn't try resell on Dante's when you know how meny there's not still released on the market. I know NZR/Dekel could easy dump the market price to TT+200 if he wanted.

And hes one of those guys that would do it just for the heck of it if he got pissed enough too

 

[e-lite]

And hes one of those guys that would do it just for the heck of it if he got pissed enough too

Sure, it would still be profit for him But most people in this thread don't know what the material cost to craft a dante is. Ignorance is bliss If they knew they'd think TT+200 for a dante is expensive

 

[Witte]

Now what's realy gonna make the reseller mad is when he finds out how meny dante's NZR/Dekel allready have in his storage... I hope this reseller learn a lesson. Anyone not a noob wouldn't try resell on Dante's when you know how meny there's not still released on the market. I know NZR/Dekel could easy dump the market price to TT+200 if he wanted.

And why exactly is he holding them in storage? Isnt that maket manipulation pur sang? Since he is the only one able to craft them (i understand from this thread) he decide how many there are ingame. So he can simply wait untill the demand is very high, and then release them slowly on the market.

And he gets away with it as everyone is blaming resellers (although I think it is his full right to play the market like that)

 

[Tigerman]

And why exactly is he holding them in storage? Isnt that maket manipulation pur sang? Since he is the only one able to craft them (i understand from this thread) he decide how many there are ingame. So he can simply wait untill the demand is very high, and then release them slowly on the market.

And he gets away with it as everyone is blaming resellers (although I think it is his full right to play the market like that)

So far hes been keeping them steady at 7-800 PED and not been pushing them upwards like resellers does. Market manipulation? Well, not really, cause he just sell them at a reasonably fixed price and he does also sell "out of auction", so keep in mind that altho he dont sell all he make in auction, he dont keep all the ones he dont sell in auction in his storage either.. The dante amps has sold for 7-800 more or less since he crafted the first one..

 

[Witte]

So far hes been keeping them steady at 7-800 PED and not been pushing them upwards like resellers does. Market manipulation? Well, not really, cause he just sell them at a reasonably fixed price and he does also sell "out of auction", so keep in mind that altho he dont sell all he make in auction, he dont keep all the ones he dont sell in auction in his storage either.. The dante amps has sold for 7-800 more or less since he crafted the first one..

So we get back to my earlyer quetion. Why hasnt he been putting them on auction for 800 ped then? If he makes so much money from them, why not flood the auction for a while? Until the demand is stabilized again, and even without new supplies its 800 again?

PS, market manipultion does not need to mean you get the price up. You can also manipulate the market so that the price stays constant, something that is happening here.

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

No offence, but its none of your bussiness that Tzest0s was willing to pay 1k to get the amp at once. Aside from that, when you wait you take the risk that the item becomes even more expenisve. You never know how mineral or item drops will be in the future.

I read now about 20 or more posts of you and I came to the conclusion that you are the advocat of the resellers. It does not matter what point but from your perspective the higher the price the better and market manipulation seams not to exist for you.


PS: think the crafted Items are the only one on which resellers would have a tough stand if the bp to craft it is available to more than one and they do not form a uniopn to drive prices up.


PPS:

Think about the Dante Amp. If NZR put them in Auction at lets say TT+850 and the resellers buy them all - NZR would have made a Profit and can buy ore/ematter and craft some more. Put them in auction at TT+850 and the reseller buy them all - NZR would have made a Profit and buys ore/ematter and can craft some more. Put them in auction at TT+850 and the reseller buy them all - NZR would have made a Profit and buys ore/ematter and can craft some more. Put them in auction at TT+850 and the reseller buy them all - NZR would have made a Profit and buys ore/ematter and can craft some more. Put them in auction at TT+850 and the reseller buy them all - NZR would have made a Profit and buys ore/ematter and can craft some more. Put them in auction at TT+850 and the reseller buy them all - NZR would have made a Profit and buys ore/ematter and can craft some more.


Somewhere around that point thhe Reseller will run out of money and the at TT+850 listed Dantes can be bought bby everyone who needs them - NZR would have made a nice Profit and crafted a lot of Dantes which will give him the chance to get a nice bp or a Global / HoF if not more and also some nice Skills I think.

OK after the Reseller has to list the Dantes at the Price NZR sells them or below and take the loss and NZR would have to stop makeing Dantes for some time but the chances would be here that he looted another good bp or he has made enough peds to do other things for some time.



NZR what do you think about this Plan?


Regards

 

[Witte]

I read now about 20 or more posts of you and I came to the conclusion that you are the advocat of the resellers. It does not matter what point but from your perspective the higher the price the better and market manipulation seams not to exist for you.


PS: think the crafted Items are the only one on which resellers would have a tough stand if the bp to craft it is available to more than one and they do not form a uniopn to drive prices up.

I never get any counter arguments so i am unable to change my oppinion. When somone actually give a good reply on them, i might do so. But the people that have replied untill now are unable to do so.


PS. most people that read my posts say i think market manipulation does not exists.

So here it is: MARKET MANIPULATION EXISTS.

So now that myth is out of the world, my position is that market manipulation is NOT the decicive factor for the prices, but supply and demand is. My suspicsion is: Marketmanipulation 10% influence at most. Supply and demand: 90% at least. You can call that 10% resellers fee if you like.

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

I never get any counter arguments so i am unable to change my oppinion. When somone actually give a good reply on them, i might do so. But the people that have replied untill now are unable to do so.


PS. most people that read my posts say i think market manipulation does not exists.

So here it is: MARKET MANIPULATION EXISTS.

So now that myth is out of the world, my position is that market manipulation is NOT the decicive factor for the prices, but supply and demand is. My suspicsion is: Marketmanipulation 10% influence at most. Supply and demand: 90% at least. You can call that 10% resellers fee if you like.

OK lets try again.

The money the Resellers take is money the Crafter, Hunter and Miner loose.

So Resellers make money out of the others who had to deposit for it or had to find ores or took the risk of crafting items.

There is no service to the rest of us in buying items and relist at a higher price. It is money taken from miners, crafters or hunters which would have otherwise more money to buy probes, ammo or materials to do their profession.


Is it clear now Witte?

Driving up price from +800 to +1,x K is more than 10% fee btw if my math is still trustable.

 

[HunterZ]

The money the Resellers take is money the Crafter, Hunter and Miner loose.

sadly - yes - this money is out of looting/mining/crafting pool.
But u must be realy stupid to try make resselling on craftable item - specialy if its not UBER rare. So - i realy hope someone wasted some K peds

 

[BruuD]

Welcome to our weekly reseller discussion!

 

[Tigerman]

OK lets try again.

The money the Resellers take is money the Crafter, Hunter and Miner loose.

So Resellers make money out of the others who had to deposit for it or had to find ores or took the risk of crafting items.

There is no service to the rest of us in buying items and relist at a higher price. It is money taken from miners, crafters or hunters which would have otherwise more money to buy probes, ammo or materials to do their profession.


Is it clear now Witte?

Driving up price from +800 to +1,x K is more than 10% fee btw if my math is still trustable.

If MY math is trustable.. 25%
And the REASON why they can take that "fee" anyways is because they CREATE the shortage/demand to begin with... "They can ask more because the item is worth it" is BS, cause the fact is that people NEED certain items in order to enjoy PE. Cause aint an option for BLP users. Beast however is, if you can live with the lower damage.. Which personally i dont want to. However I already have dante and also have the means of getting the dante at the "correct" price and not the artificially inflated reseller one..

 

[Witte]

OK lets try again.

The money the Resellers take is money the Crafter, Hunter and Miner loose.

So Resellers make money out of the others who had to deposit for it or had to find ores or took the risk of crafting items.

There is no service to the rest of us in buying items and relist at a higher price. It is money taken from miners, crafters or hunters which would have otherwise more money to buy probes, ammo or materials to do their profession.


Is it clear now Witte?

Driving up price from +800 to +1,x K is more than 10% fee btw if my math is still trustable.

What are you trying to say exacetly? I can also sell items for higher as hunter. Same goes for crafters and miners. The fact that resellers make money, does not mean they decide the prices on all items.

And it went from 800 to 1000 because there isnt enough supply of dantes. And the demand is ever increasing. That a reseller noticed this, and makes money from it, is market insight. But if what is said here is true, the resellers made a big mistake and he will lose money.

 

[Gunz aka Gunzy]

Witte claim those things does not exist ... so why botther.
Let him pay the fair market price in auction , and sell that amp to other player that are less clever,smart and could have been Fworded buy som auction parasite.

Lmfao Auction parasite dont u fucking hate them.........

 

[Witte]

If MY math is trustable.. 25%
And the REASON why they can take that "fee" anyways is because they CREATE the shortage/demand to begin with... "They can ask more because the item is worth it" is BS, cause the fact is that people NEED certain items in order to enjoy PE. Cause aint an option for BLP users. Beast however is, if you can live with the lower damage.. Which personally i dont want to. However I already have dante and also have the means of getting the dante at the "correct" price and not the artificially inflated reseller one..

The resellers have no control on supply. Hunter, crafters and miners are in control of that (and ultimatly MA). EU is a 160 million USD economy. To manipulate such a market in a large scale, you will need MILLIONS of dollars. I just have not seen any proof of that. So i would say, give me proof.

BTW,Why dont YOU sell your dante to me for 700 ped? Or do you think its worth more then that? Ok 800 then? or do you think its even worth more then that too? See the logic behind supply and demand?

 

[Etopia]

Lmfao Auction parasite dont u fucking hate them.........

I learned to live with them.
I learned to make money on their stupidity.
I learned to not discuss with wytte , because its all time the same arguing...

 

[Witte]

I learned to live with them.
I learned to make money on their stupidity.
I learned to not discuss with wytte , because its all time the same arguing...

Yeh same arguments, but no replies that refute them.

 

[Tigerman]

The resellers have no control on supply. Hunter, crafters and miners are in control of that. EU is a 160 million USD economy. To manipulate such a market in a large scale, you will need MILLIONS of dollars. I just have not seen any proof of that. So i would say, give me proof.

BTW,Why dont YOU sell your dante to me for 700 ped? Or do you think its worth more then that? Ok 800 then? or do you think its even worth more then that too? See the logic behind supply and demand?

If there is 100 Dante amps in the auction, and they cost 800 PED each, how much money do you need to buy them ALL?
1 million PED? NO! You need 80k PED and there is not 100 dante amps in auction either!
You DO NOT NEED TO CONTROLL EVERY SINGLE ITEM OF ALL CATEGORIES TO MANIPULATE PRICES!

And i dont sell my dante for 700, 800 or even 1000 to ANYONE because i USE it. And if I DID sell it, it sure wouldnt be to the devils advocate.

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

What are you trying to say exacetly? I can also sell items for higher as hunter. Same goes for crafters and miners. The fact that resellers make money, does not mean they decide the prices on all items.

And it went from 800 to 1000 because there isnt enough supply of dantes. And the demand is ever increasing. That a reseller noticed this, and makes money from it, is market insight. But if what is said here is true, the resellers made a big mistake and he will lose money.

LOL - what do you want to say?

If I understand you when a Hunter buys items at low price and sells at high if he is still a hunter?

No for sure he qualifies himselve as a reseller, it does not matter if he goes hunting, mining or crafting with the money he makes out of reselling he is still a reseller.

Hope NZR sees this annd act as Tigerman said he might does...


BTW Elite what materials does the Dante need? Did not find the materials listed on Bob the Builder or have you had to signe a NDA

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

Yeh same arguments, but no replies that refute them.

LOL it is the other way around.
We give the replies and the arguments but you ignore them constantly.

 

[Witte]

If there is 100 Dante amps in the auction, and they cost 800 PED each, how much money do you need to buy them ALL?
1 million PED? NO! You need 80k PED and there is not 100 dante amps in auction either!
You DO NOT NEED TO CONTROLL EVERY SINGLE ITEM OF ALL CATEGORIES TO MANIPULATE PRICES!

And i dont sell my dante for 700, 800 or even 1000 to ANYONE because i USE it. And if I DID sell it, it sure wouldnt be to the devils advocate.

Yeh and I want to use the dante too. So there is no difference in that. The only difference is that you have one and I dont. You are part of the supply, and I am part of the demand. And its ofcourse not only you. There are 1000nds of people owning a Dante not selling it for 700 ped.

So it doesnt matter that the reseller owns just 10 dantes that are on auction. Its everyone that owns a dante, and thinks its worth more the 1000 ped (like you) that makes up the price. I know you all dont agree to this, but I never seen an argument that counters it.

 

[Witte]

LOL - what do you want to say?

If I understand you when a Hunter buys items at low price and sells at high if he is still a hunter?

No for sure he qualifies himselve as a reseller, it does not matter if he goes hunting, mining or crafting with the money he makes out of reselling he is still a reseller.

Hope NZR sees this annd act as Tigerman said he might does...


BTW Elite what materials does the Dante need? Did not find the materials listed on Bob the Builder or have you had to signe a NDA

No, a hunter loots items, and sell them for a "high" price. At least, I do that, dunno about you people.

 

[e-lite]

BTW Elite what materials does the Dante need? Did not find the materials listed on Bob the Builder or have you had to signe a NDA

I know what materials is used, and what it costs to craft them, simply because I once was asked to sell the actual Danted BP for Dekel. A deal that later was withdrawed because change of plans. I did however promise NZR/Dekel to not reveal neither the components nor the cost. But I am sure plenty of the veterans know it by now.

But on a side note, it will however cost you plenty to try craft Dante's if you do not have the skills of Dekel's

 

[Tigerman]

Yeh and I want to use the dante too. So there is no difference in that. The only difference is that you have one and I dont. You are part of the supply, and I am part of the demand. And its ofcourse not only you. There are 1000nds of people owning a Dante not selling it for 700 ped.

So it doesnt matter that the reseller owns just 10 dantes that are on auction. Its everyone that owns a dante, and thinks its worth more the 1000 ped (like you) that makes up the price. I know you all dont agree to this, but I never seen an argument that counters it.

I dont think its worth over 1000 PED, I just dont want to sell it...
I have a a106 as well, but you dont see me posting that on auction just because they sell/sold for over 1k PED, did you?
If they sold for 10k maybe id consider it, but as a serious hunter I just dont sell the gear I need to use..

 

[Kjetil]

If MY math is trustable.. 25%
And the REASON why they can take that "fee" anyways is because they CREATE the shortage/demand to begin with... "They can ask more because the item is worth it" is BS, cause the fact is that people NEED certain items in order to enjoy PE. Cause aint an option for BLP users. Beast however is, if you can live with the lower damage.. Which personally i dont want to. However I already have dante and also have the means of getting the dante at the "correct" price and not the artificially inflated reseller one..

Let me correct you a little in this one. The reason for that ppl don't use cause amp now is that the dante amp exsist. Haven't the dante amp exsisted, ppl have used cause amp (or similiar) today. This is same for many items in EU. Ppl talk about some items like there was "crap" items. The only reason for that the items is "crap" is that there exsist other better items. I even once heared somebody talk about FAP-90 as a crap item, near as bad as Adj Fap. That was some years ago though.
When Dante amp was released, I think I remember the price at around +1500 ped. Reason for high price was monopoly and that NZR still didn't have so good crafting skills as he has today, also QR of bp was 1.0.
Dante amp require azzurite ingot to be produced. Back then, azzurite was at 150%. Now azzurite sell for much higher.
I don't know how much it is fair to sell dante amp for, but I think NZR gain ok from his investment. About speculation, I really don't know where dante amp will be in price range in the future. It can depend a lot of the resources required to make the amp. As for coats, I remember when they stop to drop in loot, price skyrocket. Some after, tailors unlocked blueprints and started to produce coats. It was then possible to get a coat for a "good" price. This occured until some resources was harder to find and the crafted coats also skyrocket in price.

About resellers, I think we can divide them into several groups.
1. Simple resellers. Those who stay all the day in auction and buy stuff when it is under "marketprice" for later sell on marketprice.
2. Speculators. Those who buy stuff and put in storage for speculation purpose. Example Uber armor, Uber FAP, items that drop in cycle, etc. When price raise, they sell it.
3. Traders. Those who buy resources in bulk from miners and hunters and sell to crafters and tailors for a little markup to provide service.

All those participate in EU economy in a way, same as in IR:. Since the economy in EU still is in a "start-phase", it is possible to manipulate to a certain grade. Anyway, I think it is possible to avoid resellers (group 1) for ppl with patience. It is patience that those gain on.

/Kjetil

 

[Tigerman]

I know what materials is used, and what it costs to craft them, simply because I once was asked to sell the actual Danted BP for Dekel. A deal that later was withdrawed because change of plans. I did however promise NZR/Dekel to not reveal neither the components nor the cost. But I am sure plenty of the veterans know it by now.

But on a side note, it will however cost you plenty to try craft Dante's if you do not have the skills of Dekel's

Guess people dont want to fail very much with <edit: never mind, im not gonna let the manipulators know>

 

[Tigerman]

Let me correct you a little in this one. The reason for that ppl don't use cause amp now is that the dante amp exsist. Haven't the dante amp exsisted, ppl have used cause amp (or similiar) today. This is same for many items in EU. Ppl talk about some items like there was "crap" items. The only reason for that the items is "crap" is that there exsist other better items. I even once heared somebody talk about FAP-90 as a crap item, near as bad as Adj Fap. That was some years ago though.
When Dante amp was released, I think I remember the price at around +1500 ped. Reason for high price was monopoly and that NZR still didn't have so good crafting skills as he has today, also QR of bp was 1.0.
Dante amp require azzurite ingot to be produced. Back then, azzurite was at 150%. Now azzurite sell for much higher.
I don't know how much it is fair to sell dante amp for, but I think NZR gain ok from his investment. About speculation, I really don't know where dante amp will be in price range in the future. It can depend a lot of the resources required to make the amp. As for coats, I remember when they stop to drop in loot, price skyrocket. Some after, tailors unlocked blueprints and started to produce coats. It was then possible to get a coat for a "good" price. This occured until some resources was harder to find and the crafted coats also skyrocket in price.

About resellers, I think we can divide them into several groups.
1. Simple resellers. Those who stay all the day in auction and buy stuff when it is under "marketprice" for later sell on marketprice.
2. Speculators. Those who buy stuff and put in storage for speculation purpose. Example Uber armor, Uber FAP, items that drop in cycle, etc. When price raise, they sell it.
3. Traders. Those who buy resources in bulk from miners and hunters and sell to crafters and tailors for a little markup to provide service.

All those participate in EU economy in a way, same as in IR:. Since the economy in EU still is in a "start-phase", it is possible to manipulate to a certain grade. Anyway, I think it is possible to avoid resellers (group 1) for ppl with patience. It is patience that those gain on.

/Kjetil

I never owned a cause amp, I just borrowed one every now and then. Why didnt i buy and use one regularilly? Because it has decay and dmg/pec figures thats off the charts. It truely sucks. The Beast amp (which ironically came after its two big brothers) is a much better amp, because as opposed to the cause, it wont pull your dmg/pec DOWN

 

[Witte]

I dont think its worth over 1000 PED, I just dont want to sell it...
I have a a106 as well, but you dont see me posting that on auction just because they sell/sold for over 1k PED, did you?
If they sold for 10k maybe id consider it, but as a serious hunter I just dont sell the gear I need to use..

Sorry but i fail to see the logic behind this.

Just imagine, at this VERY moment, there is one dante at auction for 1k BO. Instead of a dante, you own 1k PED. For the rest you are in exactly the same situation. You are claiming you wont buy it?

In other words, You would not sell the dante for 1k, but also not buy the dante for 1k? What exacly is the difference in owning 1k peds, and owning a dante? Its a simply transaction that takes just 1 minute. In both directions. If its not that transaction that holds you from selling or buying, then WHAT is it?

 

[Etopia]

Sorry but i fail to see the logic behind this.

Just imagine, at this VERY moment, there is one dante at auction for 1k BO. Instead of a dante, you own 1k PED. For the rest you are in exactly the same situation. You are claiming you wont buy it?

In other words, You would not sell the dante for 1k, but also not buy the dante for 1k? What exacly is the difference in owning 1k peds, and owning a dante? Its a simply transaction that takes just 1 minute. In both directions. If its not that transaction that holds you from selling or buying, then WHAT is it?

I own a dante , i use it 2 time a year for LG , and i wont sell it , not for 1k , not for 1.5 not for 2 k...
i just wont sell it , because i whant to have my dante in my storage and be abel to use it when i feel to use my dante...
My ped card so far , never killed any mobs or people at rig ...My dante did.

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

Sorry but i fail to see the logic behind this.

Just imagine, at this VERY moment, there is one dante at auction for 1k BO. Instead of a dante, you own 1k PED. For the rest you are in exactly the same situation. You are claiming you wont buy it?

In other words, You would not sell the dante for 1k, but also not buy the dante for 1k? What exacly is the difference in owning 1k peds, and owning a dante? Its a simply transaction that takes just 1 minute. In both directions. If its not that transaction that holds you from selling or buying, then WHAT is it?

Very simple:

Because he needs it and when he would sell it he would have to buy another one and as he is a hunter why bother with it?

Would you sell your car when you need it if you are not sure to get another one?

 

[Witte]

I own a dante , i use it 2 time a year for LG , and i wont sell it , not for 1k , not for 1.5 not for 2 k...
i just wont sell it , because i whant to have my dante in my storage and be abel to use it when i feel to use my dante...
My ped card so far , never killed any mobs or people at rig ...My dante did.

Just "because i dont want to sell it" is not a reason.

The real reason is, that you think you get more fun or advantage from it then the 1000 ped would give you.

Isnt that the same as saying that you think its worth more then 1k peds?