Thought for the Sweat Market

[NDaleramai]

First of all, I think that this is the right place for this discussion. If not, please tell me, and I will repost it elsewhere.

Anyway, I have been watching the price of ME in game for a bit, and it has fluctuated, but stayed relativly close to 320%. Now, seeing that price has made me wonder about two major questions:

Is Mindforce so much better than normal weapons / FAPs that it offsets its own high cost?
Why is the cost of ME so high?

I don't have the funds currently to test the Mindforce chips to answer the first question, so anyone that has tested them, please feel free to post your results and experiences with it below. However, the second question I believe I have a suggestion for, that could alter the market in Project Entropia.

As we know, Mind Essence is created from Force Nexus, an Enmatter, and Vibrant Sweat. So, the price of ME must come from both of those, right? Well, I see Force Nexus selling ususally for about 120% IIRC, so thats not too bad, since its only gotten from mining. However, the 2 PECs per bottle of sweat are, I believe the cause for ME to be so expensive and remain out of reach of more players that might like to try it, myself included.

Now, the idea that I have to alter this is simple. Allow hunters to be able to collect a few bottles of sweat, say 1-3, from creatures killed that can normally yeild sweat. Not a massive change, but one with a forceful impact anyway. The benefits would be twofold. First, the amount of vibrant sweat would increase dramatically, thus cutting down the cost of ME, making it far more attractive to more players that want to try, but are driven away by the high cost. Second, it would act as a stabilizing effect on the sweat market, which in the last week alone I have noticed some instability, with prices between 2 and 2.5 PECs. With the extra sweat in game, the price of sweat could fall somewhat, to the potential price of 1.25 - 1.5 PECs per bottle.

While its true that this effect would be somewhat detrimental to the new players that require sweat to gain money in game due to either a desire to test the game before depositing, such as I did, or those that have no way to deposit, I feel that the effects would not be catastrophic. The new players would still have a source of income and a way to play, and the more experienced players would have access to Mindforce powers. I believe that the overall results of a change such as that would cause a change in the market of Project Entropia, as those that previously had to sink large amounts of money into ME or its components now havemore income freed up for other persuits, such as more trading, hunting, or whatever you prefer, and this could in turn increase the profits for MA and the loots for the players, always a bonus, from the extra PEDs spent on repairs and ammunition (using the lootpool theory).

Sorry for taking up so much space for this theory, but please, leave me some feedback on this idea. Good, bad, either one is ok, I just want to know what other players in Project Entropia think of an economic change like this.

 

[Crosis]

I'm a Mindforce refiner/trader and I second this idea! i love it!

 

[rotten ice]

I like this idea the only question is that I thought MA had enabled sweating again and have heard of ppl with level 146 in sweating and still going. Are you able to still sweat so if you were to sweat a mob before attacking it you may get sweat this may not always work as sometimes you fail but as you can now get upto 20 bottles of sweat in one go which come to about 6-7 kills if they were to give 3 bottles per kill but if you could achieve this amount every so often. I have been collecting sweat for a long time now (1yr) and make my own ME (i used to mine for nexus now but its often cheaper to buy ) however I still occasionally sweat mobs just before i attack them just to try ( I am using an axe-1 so up close and personnel works for me just not for my armour with the decay

I am not trying to pick holes or critise I like your idea just my 2pec

Regards Rotten ICE

 

[Azrael]

Is Mindforce so much better than normal weapons / FAPs that it offsets its own high cost?

No.....but it is fun as hell

Many feel its a luxury because of its cost etc. Most of the MF chips have high decay rate...cost of use/ammo (ME) is outrageous...and mind implant also decays and you have to use a high decay tool when servicing the implant. And some of the decent chips have very high price tags.

So I guess thats why there are so few of us Mindtropians out there :/


Azrael D'Morte

 

[NDaleramai]

I like this idea the only question is that I thought MA had enabled sweating again and have heard of ppl with level 146 in sweating and still going. Are you able to still sweat so if you were to sweat a mob before attacking it you may get sweat this may not always work as sometimes you fail but as you can now get upto 20 bottles of sweat in one go which come to about 6-7 kills if they were to give 3 bottles per kill but if you could achieve this amount every so often. I have been collecting sweat for a long time now (1yr) and make my own ME (i used to mine for nexus now but its often cheaper to buy ) however I still occasionally sweat mobs just before i attack them just to try ( I am using an axe-1 so up close and personnel works for me just not for my armour with the decay

I am not trying to pick holes or critise I like your idea just my 2pec

Regards Rotten ICE

Thank you for your response on this. And no, I don't feel that its poking holes or critcizing my idea. I'm just trying to find a way where we can still allow the new players to get sweat so they still have some income before they decide to deposit, but also to increase the amount of sweat in game and increase the potential number of Mindforce users. It looks interesting to me, but due to a lack of funds currently, I can't. Anyway, in regards to gathering sweat before you kill a creature, that is something I hadn't thought of before, but I will adress that now.

If the creature is dry, AKA won't provide anymore sweat, then a player would be unable to get any of it from the loot window. When the critter is tapped out, theres nothing that can be done. Mostly the reason for putting it in there, is its a bit more incentive while hunting (even if its only a small one), and it also allows those that have hit the sweat cap to get sweat (very small amounts at a time), so that it can be sold directly, or turned into Mind Essence. Thank you for the response, and bringing up areas I failed to cover in my first post.

 

[izzyarevaloange]

The idea sounds good butnew players must work even harder to gain a living in the game. for example 100 bottles of sweat is 2 ped now when you drop the prices like that they will be worth about 1 ped or so. so now your making new people harder to live off the game.

 

[Azrael]

The idea sounds good butnew players must work even harder to gain a living in the game. for example 100 bottles of sweat is 2 ped now when you drop the prices like that they will be worth about 1 ped or so. so now your making new people harder to live off the game.

They're not supposed to live off it...they're supposed to get a taste of it before depositing.


Az

 

[Fusion]

This is actually the 4th thread (probably more) where this idea is mentioned ... it was one of the solutions people came up with when ME was way over 500% ... MA's solution for now was to increase the sweat cap and it actually did bring the prices down quite a bit ... from my point of view, removing the sweat cap alltogether or make every mob that isn't looting have at least some sweat would still be excellent though


have a look here: Sweat brainstorm!

and here: We need some changes !!!

and here: Ridiculous Sweat Prices must be STOPPED

 

[NDaleramai]

Thank you for the post Fusion, as well as the links to the other threads located in the Mindforce section.

The reason I created this one in this section is that I am trying to get a discussion on what could be done to alter the economics behind the sweat situation a bit, as well as increase it for the Mindforce users. If the economics of PE was changed even slightly by the adjustment to sweat and the price of it, it could have a ripple effect that could make PE better for everyone.

 

[Mac]

well here we go again Thanks for bringing it up again, because I think we need to keep beating this drum and maybe eventually MA will get a clue.

I don't think you would get an argument out of anyone of us that use Mind Force that the price we pay to play, is pretty damn steep. No way does it make sense to use Heal chip over fap or Nerve Blast over any other weapon. Its just to expensive. As unfortunate as that is.

The suggestion you have made, has been made before. I think I first heard it from Knuckles on a post he made before he was banned here. He wrote, and I paraphrase, "Let's just drop a couple bottles in the loot window from the mobs that are killed, but still allow people to sweat them if they can." Hey, this makes sense to me!

Many who were capped were not able to sweat , in a couple vu's ago had their cap lifted. I was one of them. I sweated again untill I was capped again. But I still agree with those that say, eleminate the cap! Here's the logic. If I want to craft, I can buy the materials, or I can go gather them myself by mining.

The same logic should be used for MF. If I want to use Mind Force, I should be able to either buy the ME or gather the nexus and sweat and make it myself. This way I get primary and secondary skills all around gathering it; Mining skills for the nexus, Mindforce skills for sweating and again mindforce skills when I use it win win. And if I'm too lazy or busy and have the ped, I can just buy it at a reasonable price and the noobs and resellers still get paid.

Interesting that your est. target price for sweat is what it was when I started ~1.2 pec a bottle. I hear people say all the time when I give that price as an offer, which I do all the time...
"OMG 1.2 pec a bottle, SCAMMER !I can't make a go of it with that!"

Well, me and many others have done just fine at that price, so I don't buy that argument. And guess what, the rate that sweat dropped was less then then it is now.

Granted, some will say that at that time we had "sweat farms" where people could trap mobs and sweat them, but I think the increased drop rate, and the increased number of players should have made up for the elimination of the sweat farms and should have kept the price down or even decreased it.

By the way, when I go to places to help people sweat by healing and focusing, I see no shortage of players there that are helping out as much as they can. So I don't buy the argument that elimnation of sweat farm is the reason that prices are high.

I guess its supply and demand equation. Many people are skilling MF to gain the skills to use uber MF chips and this burns a hell of a lot of ME, and the resellers know it and are keeping the prices up , and the skillers are paying it. Its come down, but not as much as many had expected.

I hope focus charges protecting sweaters now will help increase supply. And I hope that MA will catch a clue that they will make more money in decay if they lift the sweat cap, increase the drop rate by adding sweat to the loots and then eventually we will see prices of ME down to such a lvl that MF will be not only available to more players, but maybe, just maybe it might be able to come close to what you would pay when you use a fap or regular weapon and that in the long run will be profits for MA, and fun for us!

 

[ZeratulTheDT]

Note: This is from a 2 day players perspective. DO NOT READ if you are expecting experienced expert's commentary. Thank you.

Wow. So it's not enough that people are cheating me by paying 25% of the value for 300 sweat, you want to make it so anyone can hunt mobs and get sweat, and thereby decrease an (already cheated) demand for sweat, which is the only thing newbies can get unless they deposit money?

I would have no problem with letting anyone get sweat from any mob if I could actually make money some other way, or sell my sweat to an NPC with stable prices. I do have a problem however with the fact that if the value of sweat gets halved because you can get it yourself, I suddenly have to do twice as much tedius farming (which I dislike).

I would be perfectly happy with a 'basic knife of crappiness -1', and a loot table and combat skills. But those are not what I receive. I get sweating, and that's about all AFAIK.

 

[NDaleramai]

I appreciate the view from a new player, but I will counter with a view of my own. I have been playing off and on since late July of last year, and have still not hit the sweat cap. There are days that I will don my orange jumpsuit, go to Camp Phoenix or elsewhere, and spend time trying to gather sweat. Is it frustrating and slow at times? Yes. However, I still enjoy it, and would be happy to get even 1.5 PECs each, since I am getting benefit for only having to spend time, not money in game. So, even though I still go to sweat at times, and get some "free" PEDs out of it, I feel that the price of sweat needs to come down from where it currently is.

Also, how are people "cheating" you by only offering 25% of what sweat is worth, when sweat is a good without a "scrap" value, only what other players are wililng to pay? As another note, I'm not saying that people hunting will be able to get sweat from every creature, only that the possibility would be there, and that the hunter could get at most 3-5 bottles, where a new player can get up to 20 in one draw from a creature. This way new players can still have the ability to sweat and earn some PEDs to start playing PE, but it will have a stabilizing effect on the market. If I think that the price of sweat is too high, I'll take my chances on a hunt. If I'm feeling lazy, I'll find a new player selling it.

Sorry for the long response, just my .

 

[rotten ice]

Allthough I can see the point from a sweaters side being that if there price where to be lowered they would lose out on pec but because PE uses REAL-CASH-ECONOMY when someone buys sweat from you they are paying real money.

Sweating is regarded as free money but has no trade value so its value depend entirely on the market so being offered 25% less is not cheating or scamming but often another PE player trying to retain money to be able to spend on other things. If you were to be offered a weapon at a very cheap price say an axe one for trade value would you shout that the person selling the axe was a scammer?? most people would snap their arm off (even if the seller did not know it was worth tt+1) everyone is out for a bargain in PE and to use ME is very expensive with very little return infact many people with focus chips and heal chips spend their ME on healing and focusing sweaters at camp phonenix including me so whilst I agree that lowering sweat price will make many have to work a bit harder you should also know that you can make money from dung, fruit and oil new-commers now are much better off now then they have been before theses(fruit and dung) were introduced.

If the sweat price was decreased and the ability to use ME and chips was not made so expensive I think the sweat market would gain more demand as more people would either want to make or use ME.

You can buy an axe for 8 ped, thats say 400 bottles of sweat (assuming 2pec/pb) once you have enough for the axe you can hunt then make ped that way.

Sweating should be used an introduction to the game to allow the sweaters to gain an understanding of trading, mining and hunting not to make a substantial profit, since I have started playing I have seen the price of many items I use decrease, like the axe (I paid tt+3) and my jester and my armour. Sweat however has increases since I started so in that respect are doing better and can get more items for each bottle of sweat then ever before.

If you are wanting to make money sweat mobs and wait untill the market rises (4pec/pb over the summer) then sell it. This can be done over and over again but requires the paitence of a saint. If you are playing to make money then you need to play and pay. PE is an investment and money can be made from it but you need to play the market, trading is a great way to achieve this so swap bottles of sweat for items cheaply then sell items with a profit.


Regards Rotten ICE

 

[Nicole]

To be honest I only use ME for transportation, well ever since PE made us run slower its hard to get to one place to the other.

Very really I will use fire storm chip, have not used it in an long time.

I find the nerve blast chips and the healing chips not on pair or fast enough to use in combat. Have not tested that new stuff but me is to expensive to hunt with in my opinion as it is.

Revival chip might be the only thing Im looking forward to using !


If private vehicles where to come out that would drastically reduce my need for ME maybe as much as 99.9 %.


[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

 

[ZeratulTheDT]

You can get other things besides sweat? Is the oil/fruit/dung worth more than the sweat, or can I sell it to an NPC?

If so, please tell me where to get these items, I'd appreciate it.

Basically what I meant by 25% thing was that someone paid me 1 PED and "trade items" for 300ish sweat. He said it was a fair trade, and so I accepted. Later on, someone told me I should've gotten 6 PED. The trade items I received were worth 0.11 ped.

Granted, it's my own fault for not knowing that, but I'm a new player and the game should be at least a little forgiving to me if I spend 6 hours farming the stuff in the first place.

 

[rotten ice]

Ahh apologies then, it looks like you have read the scamming guides now, and Im glad it was only sweat you lost.

Fruit and dung can be found all over amethra and eudora but can only be found when you are walking, if you walk to far away from it it will dissapear. There is no confirmed locations where fruit is garunteed to be found (even though some will try and sell you otherwise (ie 1ped to show you where fruit grows) most people often find it when not looking like when they stop running for a min the fruit or dung then just appears on the ground. Sometimes with fruit you may find more in the area in which it was found to do this walk following the ground in lines (older land has what looks like small squares in lines to form the ground some newer areas have different textures but its the same sort of thing just without guides.