FYI: Tips for hunters after removal of Gazz/Iron

[Mo Mo Irons]

It looks like only the Argos on Calypso have had iron nerfed. Was recently on FOMA and killed a few argos and they looted iron. The "rebalancing" seems to only apply to caly in a campaign to get us to go to other planets if you want some loot with MU.

 

[Jennson]

It looks like only the Argos on Calypso have had iron nerfed. Was recently on FOMA and killed a few argos and they looted iron. The "rebalancing" seems to only apply to caly in a campaign to get us to go to other planets if you want some loot with MU.

The question is not if Argos do loot iron, but the amount they drop...

 

[Levantos]

I can say most noobs with starter-bankroll never made profit from argos for years now while MU was around 106%, it´s a drop in the bucket.

But I agree, hunting has some major problems, but if u use those often short lasting chances u can at least make quite some more PED meanwhile.

Wrong. I improved my bank roll off Argo's alone for the majority of the time I've come back to the game. The 106% was never 106% MU, it was 110-120%+ mostly in the last few months before they removed iron from Argo's. It allowed smart hunters to break even and profit but I don't know what MA is planning or what direction they want to take loot.

Though if it's anything like the rest of the game, it's probably just going to be an incoherent mish mash of various idea's not fully cooked to serve to the public.

For example, with argo's if you never hunted during an event of any kind, you'd find the loot was VERY reasonable and the MU from Iron made a HUGE difference. Now for myself, hunting anything else is not going to have ANYWHERE near the same returns as iron filled Argonauts.

My advice would be to anybody wanting to play smart at a lower-mid level. Hold off hunting for a while until you see what MA are planning. Take up a different profession or try another game till MA brings some coherency to all loot tables.

 

[dr3w]

Now for myself, hunting anything else is not going to have ANYWHERE near the same returns as iron filled Argonauts.

I am not a hunter, but by simply analysis at PCF, I already know where to search for some small mobs with MU.

 

[aia]

Now, what drops frequently, right, it´s oil, so what do I see there:

In my experience, high TT oils (heart oil, brain oil and so on) drops from mobs with higher health - which also are more expensive to hunt (for instance more fapping).

As for animal oil residue, I don't think I've gotten a global of it since VU 8.9 or something(*); I think the globals of it practically was removed at the time ammo came into loot. And stacking up on that kinds of oils if what you have on your PED card comes immediately from your IRL CC isn't feasible. Just to get a grip of it, you could go to Twin Peaks and check how many street traders who buy things like thyroid or eye oil.

Personally, I haven't hunted those mobs for profit, but rather sometimes stacked up on the looted gazzurdite and caldorite to craft one or two oreamps. When it comes to iron from argos, I guess that there are one or two argo hunters out there who has used their iron from argos to skill metallurgy (=basic screws). A couple of years ago I used the iron with purchased belkar (and self-mined melchi I guess) to craft Jester D-1, looting one mineral for it sort of made an incentive to look for other minerals and do a few clicks on the "tt-bp" to create a weapon my myself.

Just from my own perspective, I think what has changed hunting patterns more is the change in robot spawns (=less drones, warriors, troopers and more "hard-boiled" robots (=drokas, legionaires) meaning I've hunted robots less, and on the other hand for argonauts the missions probably have made people hunting them more - at least until they finished the chain or possibly will hunt them way less after the change if new rules will make the iron missions less attractive).

Another recent change is the way robots (drones) aggro - they now stop pretty far from the hunter, making them harder to hunt (especially in a high mob density area). A special case is Drone Elites, which now stops at a distance you can't even hit them with an LR-6x.

Another small thing is that there currently is a lack of attractive events for smaller mobs. Last year, there were regulary events (free even) on small longu and argonauts (both small and mid-size) - right now the majority of events seems to be on tougher mobs like atrox and estophyls. Less normal fort events, more odd closed fort events that goes on for hours ran by same people each time (0 tickets left).

I can just compare with another mob tha's been changed until it was destroyed as popular "markup" mob: Molisks. The market value of teeth was pretty stable, at around 500%-600%. Molisks who had loot always dropped 4 teeth, except the higher level maturities (6 teeth for leader for instance). Then the teeth drop was changed so it was more random, and pretty often no teeth at all. After that came the regen change, which removed molisks as a good mob to recommend to newer people who asked for a mob to hunt that dropped "nice loot" (in terms of markup).

If the change of loots had come say 4 years ago, this change would have been devastating. But right now I guess since vu 10 there has been other changes that has made a bigger impact. Maybe more people will start to miss iron when the mission chains run out in august.

For drones to become popular, besides gazz, you'd need a place like vu 9 East-of-jason. Maybe generally think once or twice for the new aggro algoritm - maybe let drones come closer (say stop at 15m away rather than 50m away to make them easier to loot).

For argonauts to become popular (besides from mission grinding), regular hunting events - letting them drop iron can make good things in other parts of economy (demand for other minerals in crafting). (Personally, I don't like their change, but I'm generally conservative lol. I think they should look more intelligent and get their pants back.)

(This is just some random thoughts. I got the feeling other people, those who go explicitly for drones/argonauts and do so even with the vu 10 spawns, have a much stronger feeling for the dropped stones.)

(*) Thinking of it, I might have gotten globals with animal oil residue, but not in hunting but in crafting (components using animal oils).

 

[Jennson]

My future advice to any noob who asks me how to skill up to become an uber hunter some day: Go out mining and add some trading and buy combat skills for the profits.

 

[Manique]

My future advice to any noob who asks me how to skill up to become an uber hunter some day: Go out mining and add some trading and buy combat skills for the profits.

What he said
Someone was asking me the other day, on calypso what i would recomend him to hunt.
I actually got speechless... hard call these days.
Best you got are the hydras to try to luckly get some flares that are shitty now and one ESI

 

[BaronNuss]

Don´t focus on oils too much, no one forces u, it was a fine example what u can do and how you should use auction, I already listed some other things.

What also matters are the bigger loots@hunting cause chance is high you get something else than wools, cheap oils etc, provided u choose the right mob.

If you think you can loot tons of esis from atrox(and maybe worse, hunting that mob on taxed LA), then it´s ur fault if u only get crap.

Look what mobs drop martial, or hermes, Isis, LR or whatever what´s sellable+MU and actually drops and then cycle some PED, one run isnt enough, 10 runs not enough, you get the point.

Most mobs are higher lvl than small argos/drones most likely, but that´s what u may have to risk.

 

[Manique]

Don´t focus on oils too much, it was a fine example what u can do and how you should use auction, I already listed some other things.

What matters are the bigger loots@hunting cause chance is high you get something else than wools, cheap oils etc, provided u choose the right mob.

If you think you can loot tons of esis from atrox(and maybe worse, hunting that mob on taxed LA), then it´s ur fault if u only get oils, or other crap.

Look what mobs drop martial, or hermes, Isis, LR or whatever what´s sellable+MU and actually drops and then cycle some PED, one run isnt enough.

I can tell you easilly that i dont do one run trial runs on mobs
But i'd actually dare you to be a hunter for some months

Even if you lets say get a Isis LR59 on a loot out of a Aurli for example
it'd sell for 130-140% which is the avg going rate i think, add that to the oils you loot, the avg MU will drop to 110%, add the defensive cost on the hunt, its even more expensive, add also the odds you dont get a single item in many runs like what happens with me, plus, in this case, add the tax too you pay.

Mining you dont need a huge bankroll to get a decent avg % on your minerals.
Hunting, you do

 

[BaronNuss]

So you prefer no markup at all over that? I think chance getting 130-140% is better than only getting crap. And CP isnt a great place anymore, it´s ok but nothing else.

 

[remontoire]

(*) Thinking of it, I might have gotten globals with animal oil residue, but not in hunting but in crafting (components using animal oils).

All the simple i conductors / springs / ruds globals and hofs are made up of animal oil residue. Because only animal oils go in, only animal oil residue can come out.

 

[aia]

Look what mobs drop martial, or hermes, Isis, LRMost mobs are higher lvl than small argos/drones most likely, but that´s what u may have to risk.

I remember I've looted an LR41(L) from drone. Well, back in vu 9 but I guess they still drop them. With a markup of say 103%, it's nothing you make a profit on.

And both Hermes harness and shinguards (both obnoxiously rare) are supposed to drop from argonaut, but anyway auction is looking empty. Heck even repairable Eon is theoretically lootable from argos. But the number of these loots I've looted myself from argo can be counted on my left foots fingers.

I've looted martial with markup from SEGs. That's true. But on the other hand, I've spent alot of PEDs fapping meanwhile. No, I don't have Salamander. No, I don't have Imp/Mod fap - this means I either have to use my 2600 fap, or an (L) fap bought with 120%-150% markup. And most of my runs have ended negatively because of loot swing.

Most mobs are higher lvl than small argos/drones most likely, but that´s what u may have to risk.

"If the people are starving because of lack of bread, why don't they eat cookies instead?"

Just to give a clear example: If I'm to apply more firepower than can be gotten at breer p5 level, as I don't have any mod merc or imk2 I have to pay markup for it.
And in some cases, there is a limiting factor because of availibility. The supply of Sulfury(L), SK-80(L), hermes "harness"(L) & shinguards(L) [not counting items sold at reseller pricing]. If I have right equipment I can hunt drone elites. Without right equipment I simply can't. (Just to mention an example getting +100 dmg hits rapidly while I have to move to be able to even hit the drone with a weapon faster than my plasma rifle).

Not everyone has a mm, mod fap and shadow just hanging around in storage for those big mobs that drops those nice markup items.

I remember back in vu 7, then the market value of animal hides was around 190%. Something that was easibly looted by even beginner level players.
Then MA decided to stangle the drops of wools. The result? People stopped skilling tailoring. Demand for animal hides went to zero (as the few people who got wools got enough hides for it themselves). And though drops of wools later went up, almost noone is skilling tailoring - tailoring materials is mostly used for texturing skilling I guess.

I've been stupid enough to hunt for mobs that drops nice loots. I've gotten a few big HOFs, one was tons of Pancreas oil (+odenfiled ventricle system+ammo+hides). Next hof, about a month later (after I've spent the PEDs from first HOF), I got another big HOF. This time it was eye oil (+odenfiled ventricle system+ammo+hides). The markup of those oils were at the time maybe 105%.

Later I learned that one of the items I've hunted from has dropped from Eomon.

The other items I've hunted from I never saw in any "hall of fame" entry here, but they got prefixed with "first gen" when VU 10 was launched, and I heard some rumor that oldshool mindforce chips won't drop again.

Never gotten a 7a2 from foul either. And I joined right about time a106 stopped dropping and a105 stopped dropping when I started to be able to manage warriors. When the robot wave with secret transmittors dropped, where one was enough for a PoE set, I could just about handle a Drone 09. Now killing a Drone 10 isn't enough for a shot on the set. The unique battle axe was said to have been dropped from a Thorifoid Shaman. Well, I've killed tons of them and didn't even get a club (yes I am aware of that it was a unique mission item and a second one will not drop).

 

[Jago]

I'm sorry, but I really had to ask, why is a miner giving hunting advice? Especially after some of the comments/"tips" that made me ask to myself "...seriously..?"(i.e the oil res and betting on heart oil). Anyway, having gotten that off my chest, still, hats off for the time and effort, I'm sure some value the info and other info in this thread

 

[Freelancer_Main]

btw gazz will go up (already sold a stack at 120% MU)
just wait when the botevent end and big bulks (which loot gazz) stop being so common to find

 

[BaronNuss]

btw gazz will go up (already sold a stack at 120% MU)
just wait when the botevent end and big bulks (which loot gazz) stop being so common to find

Yeah, agree.



_________

Well I never said u have to do this and that aia/jago, those are only suggestions and if hunters wanna try some of em, fine. Why should I care if u do it in the end.

 

[Jennson]

btw gazz will go up (already sold a stack at 120% MU)
just wait when the botevent end and big bulks (which loot gazz) stop being so common to find

but how exactly does it help the hunter to loot some ?

 

[dr3w]

I'm sorry, but I really had to ask, why is a miner giving hunting advice? Especially after some of the comments/"tips" that made me ask to myself "...seriously..?"(i.e the oil res and betting on heart oil). Anyway, having gotten that off my chest, still, hats off for the time and effort, I'm sure some value the info and other info in this thread

It's not simple miner. Firstly, it's a player, who able to profit - and that is most important.

He just giving relatively "bad" example about oils, which is utter crap. But what he is doing right - he giving "scheme" advice, that "scheme" can be applied universally. Three questions to anyone who can't see the light:

1. Did you killed every small mob? (not only on Calypso!)
2. Did you examine their regular loot-table?
3. Did you analyse auction prices for that loot?

 

[BaronNuss]

It's not simple miner. Firstly, it's a player, who able to profit - and that is most important.

He just giving relatively "bad" example about oils, which is utter crap. But what he is doing right - he giving "scheme" advice, that "scheme" can be applied universally. Three questions to anyone who can't see the light:

1. Did you killed every small mob? (not only on Calypso!)
2. Did you examine their regular loot-table?
3. Did you analyse auction prices for that loot?

I approve, especially the last 3 points

 

[Fat Fock Adam]

The only way I see this ending is either of these two:

1) Majority of hunters become miners, which in turn will overflow mining market so prices drop and then a similar thread will be made about "*Cry* hunters get all the MU loot, we miners get screwed with a excavator up our chocolate factory", then the majority of miners will go to hunting, and the process will repeat itself.

2) People who constantly lose peds in hunting (not due to being uneco, but due to MU of hunting loot being to bad) will quit, and the mass supply of hunting loot will drop and prices will go up. So those with the pedcard to outlast the drop in MU due to oversupply will "survive" and be able to (hopefully) start breaking even.

I'd say that's my two pec, but I can't afford to spare any pecs, since hunting loot is shit =P

 

[Az Bloodz]

Still you got no idea about hunting I say.

 

[dr3w]

The only way I see this ending is either of these two:

1) Majority of hunters become miners, which in turn will overflow mining market so prices drop and then a similar thread will be made about "*Cry* hunters get all the MU loot, we miners get screwed with a excavator up our chocolate factory", then the majority of miners will go to hunting, and the process will repeat itself.

2) People who constantly lose peds in hunting (not due to being uneco, but due to MU of hunting loot being to bad) will quit, and the mass supply of hunting loot will drop and prices will go up. So those with the pedcard to outlast the drop in MU due to oversupply will "survive" and be able to (hopefully) start breaking even.

I'd say that's my two pec, but I can't afford to spare any pecs, since hunting loot is shit =P

Bolded part is the key phrase.

Many players see only way, and even if that only way lead to the abyss, and even if those players know that... they just walk that way.

And that's logical - they see the only way.

 

[Pogny]

the base problem is :

BPs need some requierment to be crafted (materials, buyer...)

Lots of news planets and creatures are implemented with loot table

items are still and uncommon find to keep a decent MU

so common find like wool, oil and hides are really easy to find for hunter, so really easy to buy for crafter, soooo market going down.

what we need to increase MU on basic looted items ?

an increasing of the demand of basic crafting materials
an increasing ot the buyer's demand (more buyer = more craft = more materials burnt)
a reduction of the amount of material looted (more ammo on loot but MU of a hunt will be bad if fyou are unlucky)

sooo we cant satisfy everyone, if we give nice MU loot for everyone, the MU will decreasing, and we cannot stabilize a high MU on items if we cannot stabilizee the demands on it.

we need change on loot table too, to increase MU on common items, and to decrease MU on some rare items...

 

[BaronNuss]

the base problem is :

BPs need some requierment to be crafted (materials, buyer...)

Lots of news planets and creatures are implemented with loot table

items are still and uncommon find to keep a decent MU

so common find like wool, oil and hides are really easy to find for hunter, so really easy to buy for crafter, soooo market going down.

what we need to increase MU on basic looted items ?

an increasing of the demand of basic crafting materials
an increasing ot the buyer's demand (more buyer = more craft = more materials burnt)
a reduction of the amount of material looted (more ammo on loot but MU of a hunt will be bad if fyou are unlucky)

sooo we cant satisfy everyone, if we give nice MU loot for everyone, the MU will decreasing, and we cannot stabilize a high MU on items if we cannot stabilizee the demands on it.

we need change on loot table too, to increase MU on common items, and to decrease MU on some rare items...

I agree, for example wool is almost only needed for crafting cloths but demand for those is after all those years zero-zero, they could add some better bps(no cloths) on Caly or most likely on other planets that need wool, would fit into their "all-planets-should-be-equal"-program.

But that stuff isnt easy, as soon as u implent smth that´s better, ppl only use this one and the other old stuff that required other things suddenly sucks.

 

[Fat Fock Adam]

Bolded part is the key phrase.

Many players see only way, and even if that only way lead to the abyss, and even if those players know that... they just walk that way.

And that's logical - they see the only way.

Well I wasn't really 100% serious about my post.

But it I am gonna be serious for 10 seconds,

Real cash economy = real cash market. So as some already have stated, for MU on hunting loot to go up it has to be of use, so the whole cloth manufacturing section (which a lot of the standard hunter loot is used for) can be excluded, since not a lot of people ingame spend more than a few peds on clothes. It is a luxury, a symbol of a fat pedcard when you see someone in a flashy Master coat etc.

Mining and Hunting are both connected to Manufacturing, only difference is mining loot is mainly used for "useful" items, such as weapons, armor, vehicles etc, true some of the hunting loot is used for these too, but not nearly enough.

One way to adjust this could be to add texture slots to armors like the Chromatophore (or whatever it is called), that way at least, people could make their armor set unique by adding textures, also it would be useful in PVP too, because you could disguise what armor type your wearing with textures (never done PVP so might be far off, but blp and laser weapons do different dmg so guessing you'd need different types of armor to protect against them?)

Clothes however is the hard part, only way I see this changing is if they added some stats to it too. Not saying it should be as a second armor, but if clothes had very high durability and added 1-3 in certain stats such as impact (or more logical: cold dmg) I'd wear em for sure.

Anyways just my two pecs, now that Dr3w made me spend em

 

[Fat Fock Adam]

Just an addition I forgot to mention in my last post, I believe Forest Gump said it best:

"Mining is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you will get"

What I am trying to say is, that I don't believe miner has an easier time than hunters, simply because they have more MU on their loot, because unlike hunters, they can't see their loot.
As a hunter we have a target we shoot, and we know what to expect. As a miner, sure you have your "juicy" spots, but you can never be sure if someone already cleaned that place, so you could end up getting several NRF.

Both professions have their positive and negative aspects, and yes I know someone will probably say "your fudging clueless, go back to eating cake you Fat Fóck" and to that I say, I am out of cake

 

[dr3w]

Just an addition I forgot to mention in my last post, I believe Forest Gump said it best:

"Mining is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you will get"

In short: you're wrong in all parts about mining. But mining here is off-topic. Feel free to study mining section, there is shitloads of info.

About hunt: there is mobs, which loot isn't go to manufacturing. And that loot is high-MU. And no, it's not UL-stuff like weapons, armors, etc. Just example.

Well, instead of asking for system-adjustment - it's easier to adjust yourself, actually.

 

[Fat Fock Adam]

In short: you're wrong in all
Well, instead of asking for system-adjustment - it's easier to adjust yourself, actually.

I agree one has to adjust to the change or die with the old ways, that's how things work both ingame and irl.

Kind of sucks though that you trashed my Forrest Gump/Mining reference, well at least I laughed about it, so wasn't a total waste

 

[Jennson]

Nah easiest would be all hunters missing out the MU in hunting should go mining -> less demand on ores due to less used weapons & such -> more supply with ores -> ore MU goes down -> miners finally will start to complain, too

 

[dr3w]

Nah easiest would be all hunters missing out the MU in hunting should go mining -> less demand on ores due to less used weapons & such -> more supply with ores -> ore MU goes down -> miners finally will start to complain, too

Many hunters are mining too. Nothing new. And if all hunters will go mining - all hunting TT-food loot will start rising in MU and hunters... oh wait.