Traders ...

tribal556

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What are theses people bringing to the universe ?

In the past it was somewhat ok, as trading covered only a part of auction, now it s up to 95% +
small quantity or big quantity, it is all "re seller" ...

Imo there should be some kind of "trading license" to trade more than x items a day, auction fee isn't fulfilling its role anymore, can't buy or sell anything because they are keeping the market in their interest , day after day .
I mean some people don't even take part in the game, just reselling, i call it parasite. (yes!)

Why should we pay for theses people ? any good reason ?
Markup is not based on anything but traders , and that suk ,
 

Atrax

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What are theses people bringing to the universe ?

In the past it was somewhat ok, as trading covered only a part of auction, now it s up to 95% +
small quantity or big quantity, it is all "re seller" ...

Imo there should be some kind of "trading license" to trade more than x items a day, auction fee isn't fulfilling its role anymore, can't buy or sell anything because they are keeping the market in their interest , day after day .
I mean some people don't even take part in the game, just reselling, i call it parasite. (yes!)

Why should we pay for theses people ? any good reason ?
Markup is not based on anything but traders , and that suk ,
There are really two clear cut trader roles in EU.

I get so angry when the same avatar again snipes something off of auction and marks it up to "old school" markup when I want to use it and someone is selling it cheap. :mad:

5 years of playing and there is at least one player that has taken so many items I wanted in the last moments of an auction only to turn it around and resell it for huge profit even if it means paying auction fees for a month before it sells.

But the ones that I do consider actual "traders" are the ones that buy all the small stacks of loot in PVP trades and move them to auction.

I'm not sure what your play style is but I still sell some loot to them because I don't cycle enough peds to always auction whole stacks. I frequently hear new players or occasional players looking for a trader to try and recover some markup on loot items they will never have enough of to auction.

As long as you see them doing it, you know there is a place for it. Even the hardcore auction flipping that everyone hates and is mostly done with alts so that the ones profiting are able to play on a main avatar that isn't hated by everyone who recognizes it.

Seriously? :scratch2:


I could go on, but i havent the energy and will let someone else explain.


Rgds

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Yeah, slept 5 hours for a turnaround shift and got to work cold and early this morning, only to find out that the manager changed my schedule mid-week.

Now I'm back home, wired up on coffee, and don't work for another 4 hours.

I guess I have some energy to spare :laugh:
 

melander

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Hating resellers makes about the same amount of sense as hating the supermarket for selling eggs produced by your local farmer.... have you ever been to the farmer to buy eggs directly? no you have not and neither have i so why the hell would either of us complain about it.

The reason and need of traders are the same as a distributer in real life, division of labour and in the case of Entropia, so that hunters, miners and crafters can do just that instead of spending hours slaving over boring math and take there product to market.

Additionally traders acts as a release valve for both sellers an buyers, if you were selling a Imk2 chances are you want it sold quickly but fact is such a expensive item sells slowly by virtue of its cost. So you have two options either stick it out for 2-3months and get your desire price or sell instantly for a bit cheaper.
Most people prefer the cheap and quick option and the trader fills that gap, its a service, and for that service there is a price to suggest otherwise would just be rude since he is in essence holding your item for an additional 2months when he has no need for it himself.
The release valve works the same way with Ores, enmatters etc. providing a more steady supply then would be possible if everyone posted auctions on there own.

In short, if you want to buy your eggs from the farmer great but that dosnt mean other people dosnt prefer the supermarket, both are valid forms of trade.

Cheers
- Jonas
 
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golddude

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The next thing that's going to be coming from your mouth... "Traders are just a bunch of scammers!" Like the other day. Someone is buying shrapnel for 100.5%. All of a sudden a noob comes on and is just yelling/spamming in chat that this guy is trying to scam everyone including him! :laugh:
 

awe

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The reason auction doesn't work anymore is:
#calytrade
#trade

it's so easy; a global trade channel. You can even start advertising while you're still on the hunt/mining trip.
 

whiteknut

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Watch movie "A Day Without a Mexican".

Without traders the game would pretty much stop working.

Imagine every time you mine you have to find this specific crafter who needs this specific ore and then this crafter needs this specific hunter that buys this specific product. Each cycle would take hours (and maybe days) as competition would be very high, 100 hunters trying to sell same thing , or 100 miners trying to sell lysterium, (atm one trader buys it all and adds small markup).

Traders are as vital to economy as crafters,miners and hunters.


And lol about your claim : markup sucks :D (who would mine if no markup existed)

Or damn you are big hunter loot good weapon (100k ped markup), imagine trying to sell it yourself, you wouldnt be hunting for ages as it takes ages to sell this kind of gun.
 

StellaBlue

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I think traders are very important to the economy. If you have small quantities of loot and you try to put them in auction, after you pay the fee you either lose in trade on the first MU or you add another ped and now you are showing a high markup in comparison to the offers with big quantities. Next thing you know you are out the auction fee, no one bought your crap and you TT it. This is where you can take your 9 wools or 3 cans of paint or 7 ores of whatever and get some markup from a trader. Or you could spam the trade chats too if you have the time.

On the other hand, if I need to buy 2 or 3 of whatever to tier my items, I look for a trader instead of having to buy 100 of them to get a decent markup.
 

KyrismaStarsong

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There are really two clear cut trader roles in EU.

The op seems to be talking about the auction re-sellers, not traders performing the vital function they do. Re-sellers pretty much do suck, and have stolen many a "deal" from me over the years. The only way to overcome them is to know the market, and know what an item is worth, then make your bid based on what the real value that the re-seller will sell for and not on the mega deal you think you'll get. You won't get the through the floor bottom price, but if you take the profit margin away from the re-seller, then there's no reason for a bid war.

For example, if the mu on the item is +500 ped, but you can put a bid on it for +200 ped, don't be so naive as to think that the re-sellers aren't watching that auction. They will snipe that sucker in a heartbeat and resell at +400 for a nice profit, while also still selling under mv. If you figure they want to make at least 20% to make it worth their while, just bid high enough to take away that margin. 20% of 500 ped is 100, figure for auction fees to re-list, say 30 or 40 ped in this case, and simply make your bid of +380ish or more to take away the incentive for the re-seller to buy and re-sell.

The seller still gets a fair price for their item, you still get a deal, and even better, you get the satisfaction of outsmarting a re-seller instead of the same guy winning your bids over and over again because they sit and watch auctions 24/7, literally for a living.
 

melander

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I really see no difference between a "Re-seller" and a trader. If you want full price for your item then list it 6-7times over for bid as buyout or close to it like the reseller will, if you set bid at half price you should be fine with a disscounted price for a quick sale otherwise your just missunderstanding the intention of having both bid and buyout in an auction.

Best regards
- Jonas
 

aia

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have you ever been to the farmer to buy eggs directly? no you have not and neither have i so why the hell would either of us complain about it.
I Think most players have bought something in auction, directly from the looter/hunter. In that context, a reseller who wins an auction by Always adding +1 ped to "your" bid, winning auction after hours of bid war, and then post it for +20% of the won price, imho, doesn't add any service to the game.

I also got the feeling that the top auction resellers have multiple accounts, maybe often with "family members", so they gain an advantage a normal player hasn't. I mean, compare a top level crafter with, and a top level crafter without alts ("family members"). Some Sellers in auction screems out "I'm the wife of ...", if you are somewhat aware how last names are made in certain laguages.

Or you see an item at a certain tier value gets won after a long bid war, and next day someone else is Selling that very item at +300 higher pricetag, possibly after upping tier from say 1.9 to 2.0.

If I know that the extra price I would be paying would go to someone I know for being Active ingame and would do it to support ingame economy (by, for instance buying weapons or faps) that's one thing; but it's not fun if you suspect the seller of the item has attributs that can make you guess that the avatar only been outside servicecenter when going shortest path from avatar Creation Place to nearest auctioneer.

I really see no difference between a "Re-seller" and a trader.
We once had a crafter with a shop. The crafter wanted to sell hunting gear at a good price, but he was frustrated because he often saw recurring people buy things from his shop to repost them in auction (at a higher price). Some shop owners doesn't mind of course (if you jsut want the stuff sold as fast as possible), but this shop owner didn't Think it was funny at all. If you Think a few steps ahead, resellers doing this will lead to shop owners stop Selling things below reseller-defined market prize, and eventually price in shops will be above auction price; and then normal players would stop visiting shops after a majority of the shops will only have wares that are "reseller priced".

because they sit and watch auctions 24/7, literally for a living.
They don't sit by a computer system running several clients, and using OCR software to at least monitor auction? (Now I talk about the "pros" not those who just occationally go into the reseller role)
 
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Magnus Mag

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I Think most players have bought something in auction, directly from the looter/hunter. In that context, a reseller who wins an auction by Always adding +1 ped to "your" bid, winning auction after hours of bid war, and then post it for +20% of the won price, imho, doesn't add any service to the game.

he does a service for the seller or no? he gets his price up? re-sellers guarantee that you get at least a min price...
i bet without resellers things like the "summer sales" would really suck for the sellers when alot is offered and low demand...

imagine, you want to sell item which is worth tt+400 on monthly auc sales...normal guy bids tt+150, reseller buys at tt+300 and sells for tt+400...
now if the normal guy would have bought item and no resellers around...mu goes from tt+400 to tt+150...
with reseller it stays at tt+350...
sure reseller made some ped off the sale...but also keeps the prices up for all the other poor ppl having this item...
 
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melander

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I Think most players have bought something in auction, directly from the looter/hunter. In that context, a reseller who wins an auction by Always adding +1 ped to "your" bid, winning auction after hours of bid war, and then post it for +20% of the won price, imho, doesn't add any service to the game.
The service provided by the no doubt legion of resellers upping the price by 1 each round are providing a vital part to stabilize the economy and market price of items. If there are only people actually in need of the item bidding you would see items fluctuate in value drastically as most people do not want to wait weeks if not months to sell there item so would rather undervalue.
We already see this with commodities on other planets where there are no reselling and a low amount of crafters buying those commodities, mu fluctuates heavily and most people TT the loot making the situation tricky for crafters and providing hunters with less MU for there trouble.

I also got the feeling that the top auction resellers have multiple accounts, maybe often with "family members", so they gain an advantage a normal player hasn't. I mean, compare a top level crafter with, and a top level crafter without alts ("family members"). Some Sellers in auction screems out "I'm the wife of ...", if you are somewhat aware how last names are made in certain laguages.
The multiple accounts thing is kind of a straw man though right? reselling items has nothing to do with multiple account usage just the same as healing bots have nothing to do with 99.999% of hunters. If we were sitting in a thread about this subject in particular i would be with you 100%, i have seen people with up to 6-7 alts myself and its definitly not a fun thing to see, but thats a discussion for another thread.

We once had a crafter with a shop. The crafter wanted to sell hunting gear at a good price, but he was frustrated because he often saw recurring people buy things from his shop to repost them in auction (at a higher price). Some shop owners doesn't mind of course (if you jsut want the stuff sold as fast as possible), but this shop owner didn't Think it was funny at all. If you Think a few steps ahead, resellers doing this will lead to shop owners stop Selling things below reseller-defined market prize, and eventually price in shops will be above auction price; and then normal players would stop visiting shops after a majority of the shops will only have wares that are "reseller priced".
Well, shops have a built in advantage to auction since they have a lower listing price for items(significantly lower) so technically there is a sweet spot where you are out performing the slightly higher priced auction sales whilst the margian is to small for resale to pay for the active auction slot.

Best regards
- Jonas
 

Buck Wyld

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The service provided by the no doubt legion of resellers upping the price by 1 each round are providing a vital part to stabilize the economy and market price of items. If there are only people actually in need of the item bidding you would see items fluctuate in value drastically as most people do not want to wait weeks if not months to sell there item so would rather undervalue.
We already see this with commodities on other planets where there are no reselling and a low amount of crafters buying those commodities, mu fluctuates heavily and most people TT the loot making the situation tricky for crafters and providing hunters with less MU for there trouble.



The multiple accounts thing is kind of a straw man though right? reselling items has nothing to do with multiple account usage just the same as healing bots have nothing to do with 99.999% of hunters. If we were sitting in a thread about this subject in particular i would be with you 100%, i have seen people with up to 6-7 alts myself and its definitly not a fun thing to see, but thats a discussion for another thread.



Well, shops have a built in advantage to auction since they have a lower listing price for items(significantly lower) so technically there is a sweet spot where you are out performing the slightly higher priced auction sales whilst the margian is to small for resale to pay for the active auction slot.

Best regards
- Jonas
I'm not sure how big of a built in advantage shops have, there still is the tax paid on each sale
Add the inconvience of the buyer finding or just going to a known shop rather than any auction terminal

I know of more than one shop owner who gave up on the actual shop and just put a bunch of shop keepers in an apt
 

mastermesh

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Traitors? U mean smugglers...
 

Billy Jean Ruby

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all kind of trades are vital for a healthy economy and have room to exist.
Traders are very usefull for buying small quantities.
Auction snipers are something I don't like when someone trying to grab auction last minute! But if I need desperetely something, then I must stand there till last sec to win it. Thats how it works.
 

slither

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I think we'd all agree that many traders are good for the game, it's the guys who buy from auction and immediately relist the item that piss many people off.

These relisters may seem annoying to some but do serve their purpose. The 2 main resources we have are time and money. Those players without the time to sit around waiting on auctions ending and bidding for an hour against some dick who ups the bid 1ped at a time can do their thing (either in game or IRL) and then drop by auction and buy the item later.

When you say you're annoyed with a relister what you're actually saying is you're annoyed that other hunters have more peds than you and are willing to spend peds instead of time.
 

maxwellhawk

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Is this a feel good thread for the greedy scum that market manipulators are.
 

aia

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When you say you're annoyed with a relister what you're actually saying is you're annoyed that other hunters have more peds than you and are willing to spend peds instead of time.
If they re-post their item at market value I guess it would be fair, but when they re-post the item at say 20% surcharge it starts to feel annoying.

It's not fun when the peds you use ingame comes from deposits from IRL, and if you buy from the worst resellers they wouldn't spend a PED ingame (besides auction fees) but just press the "withdrawal" button once/month.

One thing I use ingame for hunting is the IX(L) mindforce heal chip; and when they are sold(*) above the price I feel is the decency limit (200%) I simply just don't buy them. I just hunt less; and if I would need to hunt some I use my relatively crappy EK-2600 or some other fap I have on me and let it set the limit.

(*) For practical reasons, if I need an item for hunting I usually take it on buyout. I usually want to hunt "now", and not wait a week until auction expires (unless I'm lucky enough to Catch an expiring auction). I guess that traders have a different perspective - they can wait a week for an item if they can make profit reselling it; and they have enough PEDs to spread around on Active bids.
 
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whiteknut

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If they re-post their item at market value I guess it would be fair, but when they re-post the item at say 20% surcharge it starts to feel annoying.

It's not fun when the peds you use ingame comes from deposits from IRL, and if you buy from the worst resellers they wouldn't spend a PED ingame (besides auction fees) but just press the "withdrawal" button once/month.

One thing I use ingame for hunting is the IX(L) mindforce heal chip; and when they are sold(*) above the price I feel is the decency limit (200%) I simply just don't buy them. I just hunt less; and if I would need to hunt some I use my relatively crappy EK-2600 or some other fap I have on me and let it set the limit.

(*) For practical reasons, if I need an item for hunting I usually take it on buyout. I usually want to hunt "now", and not wait a week until auction expires (unless I'm lucky enough to Catch an expiring auction). I guess that traders have a different perspective - they can wait a week for an item if they can make profit reselling it; and they have enough PEDs to spread around on Active bids.
Price is determined by the highest bidder, if someone is willing to buy at high price, then why shouldnt they be able to get it?

Sure these relisters might sound bad, but only if you need fast money, otherwise you can set the same price and wait and get higher price than last time (because relisters have raised the price).
 

warwar

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They make money from other players, they do not need to hunt/mining/craft, so they do not lose coz bad loot return.
 

nikander100

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I <3 Traders and resellers. Like alot sayd the game wouldnt be alive. I am a small avatar and cant cycle 2000+ ped before selling stuff. I have had some hunts where if i would have to stuff i would have lost but i sold it to resellers and made ped. I also do reselling (flipping aud's and muscle oil as i dont have a big bank roll).

I used to be a big trader in team fortress 2 if i did a week of active trading i would go thru 500usd+- of items. When i guit the game i had some money left and gave some stuff to friends that just started the game. With the items i had left (keys 2+- euro each) i sold them on the steam market and bought euro truck sim collectors edition :D

for both the games the resellers and traders are needed. otherwise the market/crafting(eu) will die the only thing you will see then is explosives...

but thats my :twocents:
 
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San

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There are reasons why they are needed and there are reasons why they are hated. I know but a few I find a pleasure to deal with and seek to return to. But I noticed this category has a tendency to not last. Go figure.
 

JD RACING

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reseller item worth 10k they buy for 7k and resell for 10k that what they offer you for your item they bug poeple that have item for sale on auction

what what the benefit of that nothing realy a normall player cant afford item because of them and most or reseller only take money out they dont play just buy and sell
 

whiteknut

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reseller item worth 10k they buy for 7k and resell for 10k that what they offer you for your item they bug poeple that have item for sale on auction

what what the benefit of that nothing realy a normall player cant afford item because of them and most or reseller only take money out they dont play just buy and sell
If reseller tries to sell item that "normal player" cant afford, then who buys those items? Some "more normal player" who values this stuff more?

And about first part i think you said, that resellers love bargaining down the price, but eveyone does it in this game, no matter if "normal player" or "more normal player" or "reseller" ppl want to pay as little as possible and want to sell for as high as possible. Thats fee market, and shouldnt be hard to understand.

If you sell your 10k item for 7k, you get 7k peds and can go hunting or spending it otherwise, if you would wait for 4 weeks to sell at 10k, the price of this item might drop and be worth even less by the time you finally sell it.
Resellers take a risk also. Even i have bought items for 80% market value and ended up selling them for about 50% of last market value (because price is determined by the buyers).
 

Seregi

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I am a trader and I think that there is a difference in the types of traders you meet.

For example in my setup and a few others I am aware of our prices are public and available to anyone who wants the link (which we post in trade/planet chat). We are distinctly different from the traders who instead try to lowball in every instance and will only raise their price when pushed trying to make extra ped off those who do not do their homework on item prices.

Since I use a shop to then sell my loot both my buy and sell prices are all available for participants to see how often I sell things and how much ped I make as a result of my trading.
 

Captain Jack

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I trade frequently, since I have the PED to buy large stacks of commonly used items for "low" markup. I use what I need, and sell the rest in small stacks at a 1-2 ped profit per trade. It enables folks who are doing something specific (daily crafting mission for example) and don't want the huge stack.
I also use traders to dump piles of loot that I don't feel like trading off myself. I prefer to only trade things I use frequently, so that if I end up "stuck" with it it's no big deal, I can just use it (eventually). However, items I don't use (hides, wools, oils) I like to sell to a reseller because I get instant markup without having to take up auction space and worry about it not selling.

I'm sorry you had bad experiences with traders. There are bad apples in every bag - but one might think all apples are bad if one does not know how to identify good ones.
 
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