Question: What is a "reseller"?

Is it shameful to be a "reseller"?

  • Yes; if you are a reseller you are a scumbag

  • No; a reseller is just someone who buys and sells stuff in the game


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Legends

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So, there's a bit of a debate on-going at the moment in another thread in this forum about this term and what it really means. In my opinion, just about any person you ask will have a slightly different take on what a reseller actually is. Some even go so far as to claim that a reseller is anyone who buys something with the intent to resell it at a higher price. If that's the case, then we are ALL resellers since pretty much everyone who's ever bought any unlimited item is also hoping it will appreciate in value while they own it.

Entropia is probably the only game where some bad actors in the game have managed to get the whole community to adopt this term "reseller" which whenever it is used has this derisive connotation toward the players that are being accused of it; at this point, calling another Entropia player a "reseller" is like calling them a scumbag. So clearly it is intended as an insult, not a term of endearment.

I feel that this whole name calling thing (calling all traders resellers) that goes on towards people in Entropia that choose to Trade is one that needs to be pointed out for what it is: a blatant attempt to shame players that are successful at trading in the game. Some people have called me a reseller before and though at first I didn't like that, I found that only a few specific inviduals used it against me, so I recognized it for it is; just some haters trying to insult me personally and trying to make me feel bad about myself and what I do. It doesn't work anymore because I'm smart enough to understand what these people are about and it no longer interests me to pick a fight with them. But what does bother me, what I do care about, is seeing decent community members get mislead into using this term to call out ordinary traders and even shop owners, it's wrong, it makes a sizeable portion of the community feel estranged and even shamed, and that's what's wrong with it.

Entropia is a game about making money. The players who love to throw the term 'reseller' around with every chance they get would like you to believe that the game is about being an uber hunter and skills... They are trying to make everybody else feel bad for making money in ANY OTHER WAY other then hunting, to them, it's dishonorable and a betrayal. The fact of the matter is, Entropia is a game about making money, period. If it weren't, then why do we have Deeds and shares and Land Areas and Shops in the game? These things are all important and it IS okay to make money in the game using other means, as long as it doesn't go against EULA and TOU set out by MindArk.

And all of this shaming is really wrongheaded and counter-productive too, because the truth is every single participant in Entropia is important, without other participants, you don't have anybody to sell your loot to, your assets (deeds, shares, shops, LAs, etc..) won't generate any more revenue, and your precious gear will be worth nothing. When people come on here and shame other players for ANY reason, they just put a bad taste in people's mouth and people leave the game or play it less.

----
And if we cannot agree as a community to stop using this derisive term, then I think we should at least make an effort, together, to clearly define what is meant when someone is being called a "reseller", in other words, come up with an accurate definition, so that shop owners and ordinary traders don't somehow get wrongfully mixed up with that crowd.

So first of all:
Do you think the term 'reseller' is derogatory? In other words; is it shameful to be a reseller?

Second:
What, in your own words, do you think a reseller actually is? Please define the term as best you can.


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PS: I do NOT agree with price manipulation or other exploits where people buy up all the available supply of something to control the market, like for example what happened with Opals and Redulite before, that's a different story. That's not a reseller that's a price manipulator, market manipulator or an exploiter, and that's reason for MindArk to intervene and reprimand.
 

Legends

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A parasite who doesn't interact with fundamental professions ingame and has no plan to ever do them or advance in Hunting/Crafting/Mining.

A manipulative trader

Agree with both of these interpretations, that's kind of what I'm understanding whenever someone is using the term in here while referring to another player in EU.
 

Power

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PS: I do NOT agree with price manipulation or other exploits where people buy up all the available supply of something to control the market, like for example what happened with Opals and Redulite before, that's a different story. That's not a reseller that's a price manipulator, market manipulator or an exploiter, and that's reason for MindArk to intervene and reprimand.
Have they ever intervened for such actions? Can they?

A parasite who doesn't interact with fundamental professions ingame and has no plan to ever do them or advance in Hunting/Crafting/Mining.
This... but there are some folks who also grind yet have a separate bankroll for buying up big ticket items and turning around to list them the next day for double the price.

Let's look at real life and the video cards that are being used to mine crypto. They call them scalpers. Folks who get them when they drop from the manufacturer and resell them at double/triple the price because supply is low and demand is high. These actions happen in every day life and it's based on the idea of equal opportunity. If equal opportunity is not there then it's a shameful practice (insider trading, etc). If everyone had an opportunity to get it (within reason) then it's fair game. In the case of the video cards, you gotta get your ass to Best Buy and wait in line. In the case of Entropia, it's no different. Early bird gets the worm... you seen it advertised in trade chat and didn't buy it up before the price doubled, I guess.

I hate not being able to afford a lot of the gear I want but there's really nobody else to blame except MindArk for not dumping more supply to meet the demand being that they are the centralized authority overseeing the market and economy in Entropia.

It's probably best to grumble towards the "resellers" but your real beef is with MindArk who are the ones in control of it all.
 

Thark

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Edit: actually tldr: i dont give a shit

Longer version:
I dont think it matters for me if they do one of the main professions. I think we can all walk and chew bubblegum at the same time.
To me, i dont like it if they organise or hold so much capital (either in peds or a specific market or item type) that it affects prices significantly. Tho i can see that this definition is very case by case and also includes renters, which i also dont like.

Tbh, the term doesnt really matter to me, but yes in PE its negative to be called that but i mean most insults are not litteral, noone thinks youre LITTERALLY an asshole if they call you one.

So ::dunno:( i just love that i figured out we still have these!)
 

messi91

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This... but there are some folks who also grind yet have a separate bankroll for buying up big ticket items and turning around to list them the next day for double the price.
Thats fine as long as you use those gains to improve in hunting/mining/crafting and you don't login JUST to stay afk in twin 24/7.
 

Legends

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Have they ever intervened for such actions? Can they?

Yes.

If you lookup the historical graph for Redulite you will see that a couple years ago they made Redulite rain down for a few days, so much Redulite dropped that the price went from about 500% to about 200%. Needless to say, whoever was hoarding it got stuck with a lot of Redulite worth less than half what he/she paid for it.

For Opals, they re-balanced drop rates and halted the abusers' next withdrawal request pending investigation. We know they did because we know who was doing it and he came on here and complained that MA had stopped his withdrawal.
 

Art Jennifer

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Nothing wrong with re sellers. Literally…. I sell you a product you add your margin and sell it on… it’s called business.

People are moaning because prices for gear is high. However this is not the resellers, this is people willing to pay the price. So don’t blame the resellers who are providing a service. Blame the people willing to pay those prices..
If I am a reseller and buy a mod merc for 50k the next day advertise it for 100k and someone buys it, then fair play. Good business deal.
 
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My interpretation could be 3 categories.

Sellers: what your your average player is as is required as you progress.

Traders: Salt of the earth business people who provide vital services and resources to other players.

Resellers: Buying up and hoarding items they have no need for with no intention of using it, for the sole purpose of profit, inflating market prices and making it even more difficult to get rare gear than it needs to be. The type of thing that annoys most players.
 

Katie Chalmers

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My definition pulled from the discussion in the other thread.

Somebody that sells an item that has no business to even be owning one to begin with.
(Aka, not a hunter, doesn’t have the level to use it, doesn’t own a shop that specialises in those items, etc)

I also didn’t answer your poll as I feel both the options are flawed in the premise. It needs a “depends” option.
 

Power

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Yes.

If you lookup the historical graph for Redulite you will see that a couple years ago they made Redulite rain down for a few days, so much Redulite dropped that the price went from about 500% to about 200%. Needless to say, whoever was hoarding it got stuck with a lot of Redulite worth less than half what he/she paid for it.

For Opals, they re-balanced drop rates and halted the abusers' next withdrawal request pending investigation. We know they did because we know who was doing it and he came on here and complained that MA had stopped his withdrawal.
Ah cool, that's awesome how they adjusted drop rates but not so much awesome how they were denying a withdraw.

They have the ability to programmatically stop these things from happening (just like in real life markets with trading HALTS) and if it does, they shouldn't punish the person for taking advantage of a situation... unless of course it was done so using a method that was not indented to be used (buying up the entire auction is not the same as finding an exploit and abusing it).
 

Sirhc

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Well we are all resellers to some extent in the game and even in some games that don't have RCE but deal in grey markets. I think "reseller" is used as a blanket term but really there are varying degrees of reselling so its not really a binary thing (resellers/traders <------------> unethical resellers/scammers)

Reseller can be derogatory in nature but I think that tends to fall in the range of unethical behavior like market manipulation or scamming of some other nature within the game mechanics. Taking advantage of game mechanics to boost prices, acquire items under value through weakness in the in game auction, and/or taking advantage to naïve players. If you play any game long enough you will encounter people like this heck you probably run into them in the real world all the time as well.

I know resource and item mark up influence how I play and learning aspects of the game where I can continue to have fun while earning a little markup along the way is what EU is all about. When it comes to items I use I will try to sell them for what I paid or a bit more if there is demand this is typically only done when I upgrade. If I loot something good a price check thread is probably the best way to gauge price or just sell to someone who needs the item even if you don't make a shit ton of markup.

Some people play the speculative approach to EU and try to invest in items/resources that will yield more return. In demand items will command more price and I don't think its unethical to ask more for an item to see if the market will bear that price. At the same time monopolizing items and then lying about their benefit or rate of return to artificially inflate the market is unethical.

It's all give and take in EU and its worth more to investigate the ethical behavior of the reseller VS just using it as a blanket term.
 

TontonX

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If i can say there is a lot of Drama going on here... Is it because Christmas / New year is approaching ? :saint:

Entropia is probably the only game where some bad actors in the game have managed to get the whole community to adopt this term "reseller"
Trust me... I have played to Everquest back in 1999, and the term was already existing in a "negative way"

For the funny anecdote, i remember a guy in everquest (and he wasn't the only one to do that) saying
"WTS something 500p, or 700p for resellers" :ROFLMAO: as if the guy buying was going to tell him "I am a reseller i want to sell for twice the price :LOL:"

a blatant attempt to shame players that are successful at trading in the game
Resellers are for me "Opportunists", you seize a good offer and know how to make some profit out of it.

I have been an Opportunist in RL... so i have nothing against you, will never blame you...

Yeah of course i am going to curse you if you buy something i need to resell it later... But you didn't insult me, you didn't harm me, you were just "faster than me" so good job and we'll laugh about it around a beer !

Then i make a difference between "reselling" and "manipulating the market"...
I can resell something one day, it doesn't mean i am going to jeopardize the whole market on this specific item...

just some haters trying to insult me personally and trying to make me feel bad about myself and what I do. It doesn't work anymore because I'm smart enough to understand what these people are about and it no longer interests me to pick a fight with them. But what does bother me, what I do care about, is seeing decent community members get mislead into using this term
  1. The ignore feature ingame and this forum is very useful if you feel these people are just haters (you can't change people)
  2. As decent as they are... some people just "follow" the bigger crowd, or those who shout louder (again you can't change people)
And all of this shaming is really wrongheaded and counter-productive too, because the truth is every single participant in Entropia is important, without other participants, you don't have anybody to sell your loot to, your assets (deeds, shares, shops, LAs, etc..) won't generate any more revenue, and your precious gear will be worth nothing. When people come on here and shame other players for ANY reason, they just put a bad taste in people's mouth and people leave the game or play it less.
True...

Though i think the problem about "player retention" on EU is bigger than "resellers" or shaming people... There are other mmorpgs out there thriving good, and trust me they got some population MUCH more worse than EU :wise:

You're a decent person, not a parasite, period.
 

tBANNA

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if i may,

beside those hungry nail biting "resellers" i m more disgusted by those worms who are giving u a pm in game if u have something for sale, and they offer u a price that is not only a lack of respect but a spit in your face, considering that beside them are others who have a decent and normal prices and... they know it, and yet they decide to spam vomiting your message window all over telling u what they offer.

i.e.
me or anyone else : sell 1000000 seasonal boxes, or pills or idk anything... and such
the worm : i can buy for 1,6 ped

.. that if the AH has orders for idk 2.1 or something..... and above him is someone spamming the trade channels in game for buying for 2.0
.....yet he decides to pm u proud and shinny like a morning star and makes his way to your brain.... The Digging Worm


now that's something unique.. and my list is full of ignored worms

:tux:
 

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I always considered a Trader as someone that, for example, stands in town or advertises to buy up small amounts of resources that would otherwise be put into the TT, providing an essential service to small time hunters or storage clearance of small stacks that would otherwise be too small to list on auction.
A Reseller is someone that buys up UL gear, usually well under the market and then list the items for sale at a substantial profit higher than MU.
 

TheAlchemist

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I don't think the problem is reseller. They are a symptom of every scarcity driven economy.

The problem is MA is not proactively dealing with resellers.
They could, when the price for things go up to much and they suspect reselling/hoarding; release a bunch of items into the game.
This would directly punish resellers.

They have the ability to control the price because they can control the supply.
But I understand that MA likes people having to deposit to buy those items. However some players might just say 🪛 you and either play less or stop depositing.

There needs to be better balancing by MA. It is a situation they created. In capitalism their needs to be checks and balances else the system doesn't work well. (see RL...)
 

Katie Chalmers

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The problem is MA is not proactively dealing with resellers.
They could, when the price for things go up to much and they suspect reselling/hoarding; release a bunch of items into the game.
This would directly punish resellers.
I think Mindark could deal with resellers in better ways.
A supply shock would punish hunters just the same who would see their investment devalue.
I've suggested the following things before, game improvements that wouldn't stop resellers but would make it less attractive for a no skill avatar to get into.
1. A player could buy any item he wants, but that item remains untradeable until he at least reaches the SIB of the weapon. That would at least weed out the low level avatars and alts parked at twins that do nothing with their character.
2. A certain amount of PED have to be cycled through the weapon before it can be sold. This would be dependent on the item level, DPS etc, but I'm sure a yardstick could be developed. Something like base DPS x 100 = PED cycle needed. That would then ensure that only people using the tool are the ones selling.
3. The ownership/managership of a shop deed could partly or fully nullify these restrictions.

These restrictions have some obvious downsides of course. Maybe some smarter people than myself could come up with better solutions.
 

Power

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I think Mindark could deal with resellers in better ways.
A supply shock would punish hunters just the same who would see their investment devalue.
There has to be some sort of "supply shock" otherwise the problem will still exists. It is, after all a problem of supply and demand.

If you do not wish to be shocked, have some patience. The only ones who will then be shocked are the "resellers" and the impatient. Should you really feel bad about that?
 

Theocles

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People who spend 24hrs a day logged into Entropia and do not hunt mine or craft, spend their time lowballing boxes by 30% market value, or hoping to catch a new player looting a ring they can offer a few k under current market value. Post in trade you are selling a ring for 26k, they will offer you 21k, or some crap items you don't want.

Easy solution, stop buying from these parasites and stop selling to them.
 

TheAlchemist

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I think Mindark could deal with resellers in better ways.
A supply shock would punish hunters just the same who would see their investment devalue.

Well, hunters would be looting the "extra" supply, so no. While their gear might be less inflated, it is because they loot gear themselves that they can sell. This would offset the lost markup.
 

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When you buy an iphone that cost less than 200€ to make and deliver, you pay a +++. When Nike pay the factory for the shoes, they dont pay 150€/pair but thats what they sell them for.
If u dont want to sell to someone at à certain price, dont. If u didnt sell some items that low (put something at ah 1%less than real mu to sell faster for example) that wont happen.
Ppl always cry but ... money makes money thats not eu, thats the real world..
 

bigdaddy trim

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A trader is a seller who sells goods that they have looted hunting, mined, or crafted.

A reseller is someone who has been brought from a trader with the intention to sell for a profit.
 

Katie Chalmers

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Well, hunters would be looting the "extra" supply, so no. While their gear might be less inflated, it is because they loot gear themselves that they can sell. This would offset the lost markup.
Your not wrong. And its not like extra supply is a bad thing. I supported the restock of the mayhem trader after all.
I just thought if the goal was to combat against resellers, there could be better options then just spawning more items.
 

Mega

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FWIW (and it isnt worth much in 2021)

I consider exploiters and botters WAY worse than resellers and I always have.

You know who you are and so do I.

I welcome resellers to buy the gear I've collected over the years (when items dropped in loot) and they can stick it in their shops or do whatever they like with it.

I will never have a use for most of it but hopefully someone else will.
 

TheAlchemist

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Your not wrong. And its not like extra supply is a bad thing. I supported the restock of the mayhem trader after all.
I just thought if the goal was to combat against resellers, there could be better options then just spawning more items.

Maybe, but since reselling isn't illegal and there are market principles to counter it, why would you want a more artificial way of dealing with reselling?
 

Ranavolana

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Resellers are evil parasites who take advantage of the ignorance and/or laziness of players. They take advantage of naive players
So whose fault is that then :(
EU is a bit more than just a game - to succeed one has to put a lot of effort into understanding how it works. It mirrors RL
 

DonJunior

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I have no hatred for resellers, but when people see naked self interest that benefits nobody but themselves, you are going to get some criticism.
 
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