Why doesn't MA have competition?

GoNi

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AfterWorld was an RCE , though it was only in beta and died there.

It hung on for a few years and many from here played it.
If it would have been RCE it maybe wouldn´t have died.

The statement that every account will be reset when it goes gold, stopped me from playing it and it was the reason I never deposited in it.

Whats the point to play a beta and invest into it, when everything will be reset later?

I am not surprised it died in beta.
 

forgo

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I am fairly positive that only a few countries in the world could pull it off due to various regulations.
Not to mention technically, Mindark is not a tech or game company. It is a Swedish toy company, which probably accounts for some different allowances on a global regulation level than any other game or software company that tried. Mindark does have some amazing brilliant ideas and solutions at times, I think whatever loophole they did find, is one of these.

Afterworld was more like a donation game dreaming to become a RCE because the C only ever went to the Devs not the players. :) But it was a cool concept and they gave it a neat effort.

EVE is not really RCE although you could technically convert isk/time to real world money, which I've done, but its a convoluted process to say the least, which kind of requires you to become a gift card dealer in a way.

Second Life is probably the only other comparison that is RCE, but its not even really a skill based activity game, its more of a creation kit sandbox.
 
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Second Life has RCE and strangely it does not take such a long time to get Linden Dollars exchanged back. And they remain in the US, so obviously tight regulation is not the issue. True it isn't even a game in itself, so not directly competing with Entropia. It is a 3D www of sorts, all content is created by users and you just rent space and the infrastructure. But as far as money transfers are concerned, it is pretty similar.
 

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Pretty sure EVE online is rce!? and i vaguely recalling Project Ion was ment to be a RCE game.
EVE Online is not RCE, but it is pay-to-win to some extent due to their Plex system... But CCP does not allow the sale of virtual items for real cash and your account will be locked if you are caught, so it's not RCE.

Shroud of the Avatar on the other hand does permit it on their own forums, so it could be considered an RCE to some extent. However new and better items are being released so fast in Shroud of the Avatar that almost anything you buy is worth a little less within a month. I think the game developpers just figured out how to keep all the profits for themselves in that one.
 

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AfterWorld was an RCE , though it was only in beta and died there.

It hung on for a few years and many from here played it.
same here and nice i dont have to mention it :silly2:
 

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Not sure if it's still around, but Dragon's Tale is an MMO RCE that uses Bitcoin. You deposit bitcoin, which is the in-game currency and you can withdraw bitcoin instantly - at least back when I played, haven't played in a while. You can play for free and you level up your avatar by playing the various gambling games (kinda like EU, lol). Higher levels allow you to travel to higher level Islands where you can gambol at the higher limit games.

Fun fact: Dragon's Tale is how I found out about EU. Someone in chat was going on about selling EU sweat for bitcoin.
 

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Second Life has RCE and strangely it does not take such a long time to get Linden Dollars exchanged back. And they remain in the US, so obviously tight regulation is not the issue. True it isn't even a game in itself, so not directly competing with Entropia. It is a 3D www of sorts, all content is created by users and you just rent space and the infrastructure. But as far as money transfers are concerned, it is pretty similar.
I'm SL resident since 2006 and bussines/shop owner since 2007. It's correct your statement. SL it's not a game. It's a sandbox 3D open world and you do need to have skills to a specific category at least if you wanna be an SL entrepreneur. It is the only RCE other platform except EU (as already posted in my previous comment).
Exchange rate all these years it's about 1US$ = 205 - 250L$ with some peaks and lows.
Except from official standart exhange rate, you can use private inworld ATM's as an exhange market website with selling and buying orders too and that's an another professional in SL :) Like stock exhange!
As about withdraws, money from Second Life to my PayPal account are usually transferred in about 5 days (not the selling orders in the market ofc) and I don't have to worry for taxes because linden lab paying the sum of tax money directly without my intervention!
 
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Granny Rowan

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Totally agree with all the comments re MAs expertise in handling the RCE aspect of the game but imo the real answer.. why no competition to MA?.. too few companies out there with the hide of an elephant :)

Kudos to the guys at MA, we abuse them daily , hourly even with our complaints an whining about almost every aspect of this game, despite the fact that we still love it and play it. Yet they have dug their heels in and continue to work on and produce a product most of us would be lost without.

Any game this size and age is going to have bugs and things that could be done better, and while MA spend resources on trying to fix things, we also ask for new development. Their resources are finite so no matter what they do, someone or some several ones will complain about what they didn't do, or should have done instead.
 

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Totally agree with all the comments re MAs expertise in handling the RCE aspect of the game but imo the real answer.. why no competition to MA?.. too few companies out there with the hide of an elephant :)

Kudos to the guys at MA, we abuse them daily , hourly even with our complaints an whining about almost every aspect of this game, despite the fact that we still love it and play it. Yet they have dug their heels in and continue to work on and produce a product most of us would be lost without.

Any game this size and age is going to have bugs and things that could be done better, and while MA spend resources on trying to fix things, we also ask for new development. Their resources are finite so no matter what they do, someone or some several ones will complain about what they didn't do, or should have done instead.
I think with the nature of RCE, they should expect a significant amount of complaints, multiple times more than normal MMOs. It's the risk for dealing with RL money. Bugs/exploits/scams become even more damaging to both players and MA in RCE

Their resource is finite, yes, but I feel that they have too few personnel / devs to handle the development part of the game, in addition to requests from planet partners. I really hope that the new 7 personnel MA is hiring this year will be for devs.
 

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Their resources are finite so no matter what they do, someone or some several ones will complain about what they didn't do, or should have done instead.
Thats nothing special for EU nor for RCE, its the same for every game and every developer of games.

You never can satisfy everyone and no matter what you do as developer there will be complaints.
 

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The simple answer is that there is absolutely no incentive or reason for established game developers to take the risk of developing a RCE game when they are already making plenty of money using other models.
 

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Maybe there is no competition because other companies see how pathetic the profits are for a 15+ year old MMO?

Seriously how much $ does MA make - few million at best? How much do other games make?

It's only uniquie because it's not copied. It's not copied because it's a model that does not make a lot of $ - not the be all end off of things but other games (yes not all but the successful ones) can make millions selling ingame stuff for a few $1s to a massive player base.

I am not expert at all on games but i recall other games making sick amounts of $ - look at the in-vouge ones now like Pubg and fortnite i mean top players there are worth just insane $. yes totally different game but why develop EU V2.0 instead of Fortnite V2.0??

I dont play them so not sure if its just ads they sell in game stuff but i know one of them is worth like a billion $ or more so... hmmm copy a $3M EU RCE type game or Billion $ Fortnite type - you tell me.

The problem with this game is the same problem it always had - too few win, to slow, too boring and a tiny player base - and likely a real bad reputation outside the die hard fans.

it is a nice niche game for sure but to be honest- that's all it is and after all this time is all it wil ever be - thats fine - i like the game - kinda, sorta, not as much anymore :)
 

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The simple answer is that there is absolutely no incentive or reason for established game developers to take the risk of developing a RCE game when they are already making plenty of money using other models.
MOBAs cost several times less than MMORPGs and are several times more profitable
 

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The idea in itself of an RCE is a difficult one. When you can achieve everything that an RCE has without the problems of it.


What I mean by that is making money in video games happens all the time without the RCE label. I have made more in WoW, Diablo and other games then I have here. They aren't RCE's yet you trade between players to move gear for a price tag.

I mean 19 years of Playerauctions.com where gamers trade items for $$$ in any game that is available on there.(if you are concerned about player to player trades) There are others of course but seriously 19 years. So why even RCE? If you want to make money in a game that is.

I thought Diablo II was the best game to profit in since it was the birth of EBAY selling gear. Think this revolutionized the idea of selling game items for real cash. Well at least was when it went mainstream. I know there was Runescape.

This now goes into why isn't "THIS" game popular. Well it's because an RCE is a problem for the company and the player. You see a gamer today doesn't need an RCE to sell items for cash. I just started playing some PoE and the currency in that game is traded for cash or super rare items can fetch a hefty $$$.

Many games have super rare items and players just try to attain them and sell them for money. So why even partake in an RCE?

Everyone wants to make money playing video games and everyone always has. There is nothing better than selling the stuff you find. However the RCE aspect of it just isn't the way to go to achieve that. So no larger company has done it, laws and other things just get in the way. (Also with an RCE the player always loses. You can't just play for FREE and sell what is valuable. )

Some of the most expensive in game items were sold privately in other games (not Entropia). That is the best way to make money in games, not a true RCE. Even when Blizzard had the Real money auction they capped it at 250 bucks max listing so when a clever gamer auction sniped this almost perfect Echoing Fury he listed it on trading sites that quickly got a bid for 10,000 Euros. That was a nice auction flip. However you see even with the in game legit real money auction in place it was bypassed to sell for what it was really worth. This was a perfect example of the massive amount of money being made in games besides Entropia. Without the RCE issues.

The future or making money in games needs to be some middle ground where the game company acts as a trading site so they can sorta traffic the sales of items but have no RCE aspect. That is where the future is for gaming. RCE isn't the future. So why bother.

Maybe ill find some super rare item in PoE then I can list it for some $$$.


Maybe Diablo 4 will have potential...

Honestly I never understood the RCE idea. I mean claiming to be the only one when it is far easier to make money in other games selling items. Sure they aren't RCEs but you don't need RCE's think that idea won't ever manifest. Think gaming will always be just trading items for money instead.

Final Question :

What's better an RCE like this game with it's plethora of problems that come with an RCE?

Playing a game for FREE no deposits and selling something rare when you find it for real money?


That is why this game isn't popular. Option 2 seems to be the way to go. I will say some things in this game are Unique like the skills ect and endless progression. However this game would be better if it wasn't an RCE. I really enjoy doing missions and skilling. Odd when the best ways to make money in a game isn't RCE. Go figure...... Wait other companies and gamers already did.

Is there a future for RCE's? No

Is there a future for making money selling items in games? Always

TLDR - RCE's will never work because it is a currency and needs to be regulated. Just easier to have items be worth money and traded for money between players. Since the players decide what is valuable it can't be regulated. That is the future. A future when the Gaming company and the Gamers win.

With that said I have enjoyed my time here since 2016 and the skills and game is Unique but it would be better if it wasn't RCE like I said. Then the gaming company and players can win. Decent MMO though and still continue to play and skill. Although I will be playing Classic WoW hardcore when it comes out 8-27.
 
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Not sure if it's still around, but Dragon's Tale is an MMO RCE that uses Bitcoin. You deposit bitcoin, which is the in-game currency and you can withdraw bitcoin instantly - at least back when I played, haven't played in a while. You can play for free and you level up your avatar by playing the various gambling games (kinda like EU, lol). Higher levels allow you to travel to higher level Islands where you can gambol at the higher limit games.

Fun fact: Dragon's Tale is how I found out about EU. Someone in chat was going on about selling EU sweat for bitcoin.
That might have been me, I was venture in dragon tale. Still around but Di is to rich to bother working on it much now.
 

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Everyone wants to make money playing video games and everyone always has. There is nothing better than selling the stuff you find. However the RCE aspect of it just isn't the way to go to achieve that. So no larger company has done it, laws and other things just get in the way. (Also with an RCE the player always loses. You can't just play for FREE and sell what is valuable. )
:wise:

I think this is one of the downfalls in RCE. When one side has to lose in order for another side to win, then we have a problem, more when it involves real money. In addition to low player retention, high cost, and dying markups, I think MA should consider the RCE aspect of this game, since it's the only interesting aspect of EU.

MA can boast all about virtual worlds, etc, but when other non-RCE MMOs are a lot more populated and vibrant than EU, then it's just empty
 

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My vision for a viable future for RCE is a bit different. It moves the focus from play to content contribution, putting cash value on the work of creating content, and opening that work to the process of play (scription, automata, areas, graphics). It's not much like EU.
As far as item economy, my answer is to give all items a cash value of zero.
 

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When one side has to lose in order for another side to win, then we have a problem, more when it involves real money.
Because it is a system of redistribution, not original creation of value or result-neutral passing of time. Many kinds of games are about redistribution. E.g. in the GDR, the famous board game Monopoly was forbidden. Even today there are people hostile to anything they view as "capitalistic", and they are not a small minority. Well, they have the choice to play something else for as long as they leave others the choice to play this.
 

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Well, they have the choice to play something else for as long as they leave others the choice to play this.
:(
Sadly I really like the various systems (space, hunting, estates, shops, etc.) and the complexity they have in EU (minus the RCE). I haven't found anything like this on other MMOs without the RCE (Project Ion was under my radar before, but I guess it flopped). I'd actually jump to any MMO that have the exact same systems, complexity, and sci-fi theme as EU without the RCE. I know I'm probably a minority here.
 

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:(
Sadly I really like the various systems (space, hunting, estates, shops, etc.) and the complexity they have in EU (minus the RCE). I haven't found anything like this on other MMOs without the RCE (Project Ion was under my radar before, but I guess it flopped). I'd actually jump to any MMO that have the exact same systems, complexity, and sci-fi theme as EU without the RCE. I know I'm probably a minority here.
They exist, but are a bit struggling, largely due to lack of publicity. I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say about them here but they exist. Barely.
 
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hi

They exist, but are a bit struggling, largely due to lack of publicity. I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say about them here but they exist. Barely.
when darki was mod this thread would have been locked LONMG beforfe - and rightfully SO. Is forum rules for long old reasons 1= no chat about other RCE names (not saying IS exact rule but here IS one rule FORUM RULE. another RULE =NO ''I QUIT SELLING ALL ''. :) that IS A RULE :) BUT AS NO MOD ATM . yOU KNOW HICH SALE THREAD I MEAN. 3 WEEK AGO THAT WOULD have been loicked. We need new mOD.

I KNOW you say oh this and oh that (sweaters) and guy himself said he would never do the job...Messis for Moderator here. Yes hes ricjh and he wins all time. He knows a lot and for people WILLING to listen and learn he DOES teach.

Messi is mod we need just my opinion only

Also the other ''CE@ games you WANT to mention = are scams 100% (that is why forum rule is here about this)
 

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The same reason Windows doesn't.
 

Billy Jean Ruby

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when darki was mod this thread would have been locked LONMG beforfe - and rightfully SO. Is forum rules for long old reasons 1= no chat about other RCE names (not saying IS exact rule but here IS one rule FORUM RULE. another RULE =NO ''I QUIT SELLING ALL ''. :) that IS A RULE :) BUT AS NO MOD ATM . yOU KNOW HICH SALE THREAD I MEAN. 3 WEEK AGO THAT WOULD have been loicked. We need new mOD.

I KNOW you say oh this and oh that (sweaters) and guy himself said he would never do the job...Messis for Moderator here. Yes hes ricjh and he wins all time. He knows a lot and for people WILLING to listen and learn he DOES teach.

Messi is mod we need just my opinion only

Also the other ''CE@ games you WANT to mention = are scams 100% (that is why forum rule is here about this)
Are you ok? because I don't think you are in a mentaly good condition :)
btw if you want Messi to teach you how to play, you can find him in game anytime you want! This char is online 24/7 as far I know.
As about Second Life the only real RCE other platform i don't think it's a scam! Sixteen years and some millions of accounts are too much for a scam to be hidden, don't you agree?
 

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when darki was mod this thread would have been locked LONMG beforfe - and rightfully SO. Is forum rules for long old reasons 1= no chat about other RCE names (not saying IS exact rule but here IS one rule FORUM RULE. another RULE =NO ''I QUIT SELLING ALL ''. :) that IS A RULE :) BUT AS NO MOD ATM . yOU KNOW HICH SALE THREAD I MEAN. 3 WEEK AGO THAT WOULD have been loicked. We need new mOD.

I KNOW you say oh this and oh that (sweaters) and guy himself said he would never do the job...Messis for Moderator here. Yes hes ricjh and he wins all time. He knows a lot and for people WILLING to listen and learn he DOES teach.

Messi is mod we need just my opinion only

Also the other ''CE@ games you WANT to mention = are scams 100% (that is why forum rule is here about this)
Where is the problem if we name games that tried to be RCE but failed, speak NO LONGER EXIST ?

I doubt that Afterworld was planned as a scam or could be considered a scam.
The game itself wasn´t that bad, but obviously the expectations the developer have had about it, was not met so they gave up on the project.
Its not uncomon!
Personally I try a lot early access games, or participate in beta testings.
Do you actually know how many games get canceled in the early state (in first year) ?
I can tell you, its a lot!

Even some games I played several years have died.
Competition is hard, and if developer doesn´t make enough money to satisfy further development, it may be better to give it up.

Sidenote: MA did that too, with Compet

About the quiter sell out thread, well if he didn´t tell he want to quit it would have just been a selling thread, which isn´t breaking any rule at all. Personally I think this rule is useless anyways. We all know that people sell out and quit. Other people come and invest, EU is dynamic.
 

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Because it's easier for game developer to profit from lootboxes, microtransactions etc.
They just put that cash straight into their pockets not needing to return 90-95% of it and dealing with withdrawals, banking licenses etc.
 

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Because one needs to work to come up with a viable model instead of passing around the same pile of dungs the game industry is currently living on?

Just take a look on Steam what brave and interesting projects pop up on indie sector and what boring money sucking products AAA delivers.

Another reason is that the public has been educated that is better value to give money to streamers or who knows what meaningless direction than to one's own personna.
 

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Hi guys,

Does anyone have better knowledge of why Mindark does not have competition in the RCE field?
Is it because its hard, not very profitable or do they have some very strong patents that protect them?

Because for me its rather interesting that no one stepped up to compete.

Regards,
True :bandit:
I never knew this kind of thing was legal, if I ever saw it on the internet I assumed that it was a huge scam scheme developed by high-end darkweb people and I wanted no part of allowing my IP to enter their main systems :p. When I joined Entropia 4 years ago it was a completely different story compared to... 18 years ago.

But I don't know about competitors, but I do know there are other RCE games, I know of about 8 right now... I don't know if Neverdie is actually working on some or not.
I intend to make one if I can get off my lazy butt, I have a solid viable model for money generation and distribution, I wrote a entire storyline and descriptive scenery of areas and creatures for a game but don't have time for it let alone money to pay others to do it for me, besides that, I don't trust the idea of letting other people do anything for me >_< :D.
I know a game that isn't necessarily Real-Cash economy, but it isn't against their ToS or EULA to trade in-game items among players for real-cash.
 

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I never knew this kind of thing was legal, if I ever saw it on the internet I assumed that it was a huge scam scheme developed by high-end darkweb people and I wanted no part of allowing my IP to enter their main systems :p. When I joined Entropia 4 years ago it was a completely different story compared to... 18 years ago.

But I don't know about competitors, but I do know there are other RCE games, I know of about 8 right now... I don't know if Neverdie is actually working on some or not.
I intend to make one if I can get off my lazy butt, I have a solid viable model for money generation and distribution, I wrote a entire storyline and descriptive scenery of areas and creatures for a game but don't have time for it let alone money to pay others to do it for me, besides that, I don't trust the idea of letting other people do anything for me >_< :D.
I know a game that isn't necessarily Real-Cash economy, but it isn't against their ToS or EULA to trade in-game items among players for real-cash.
Perhaps you mixing the meaning of the term. REAL Cash Economy Game with the exact meaning of it as far I know it is only one. Entropia Universe. That's it.
There is another 3D open world platform with real cash, but it is not an exact game! That's Second Life.
Real cash economy by me it is a platform who giving you the option with build-in system to exchange the in-game currency with real world currency and vs versa ofc.
Selling in-game items on the internet using other market systems or platforms (like ebay), doesn't make those real cash economy games. All these transactions at bottom line are illegal in the majority of the games.

Last time I communicate and checked I figure out ND is trying to create kind of game with "the option" of use a cryptocurrency system. Some ideas are also appear as links somewhere but nothing is real.
Dunno where you found 8 RCE :)
I can bring 10-20 of my ideas in a website, that doesn't mean there are real cash economy games out there.
and last, online Casino's aren't in the same category! We don't talk about Casino's here.
 
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Kain Dewey Fall

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Perhaps you mixing the meaning of the term. REAL Cash Economy Game with the exact meaning of it as far I know it is only one. Entropia Universe. That's it.
There is another 3D open world platform with real cash, but it is not an exact game! That's Second Life.
Real cash economy by me it is a platform who giving you the option with build-in system to exchange the in-game currency with real world currency and vs versa ofc.
Selling in-game items on the internet using other market systems or platforms (like ebay), doesn't make those real cash economy games. All these transactions at bottom line are illegal in the majority of the games.

Last time I communicate and checked I figure out ND is trying to create kind of game with "the option" of use a cryptocurrency system. Some ideas are also appear as links somewhere but nothing is real.
Dunno where you found 8 RCE :)
I can bring 10-20 of my ideas in a website, that doesn't mean there are real cash economy games out there.
and last, online Casino's aren't in the same category! We don't talk about Casino's here.
Shroud of the Avatar, it is the first game to sign-on to Neverdie Universal Gaming Crypto Plan, trading items for real-cash is more often than not illegal in all games. It isn't illegal in Shroud of the Avatar. The are saying it isn't illegal because it was entirely player funded, so the funds belong to the players and not the game developers, so the players are not restricted to trading the game items and currently for only in-game items/currency. Whatever that is all about.
Entropia Universe has a Casino/ Gambling license so that they can run this game the way they do, It is redundant to say we don't talk about casinos here...
But in entropia universe, the game was funded by players *Presumably* Thus their loss of 2 million or whatever the first 1-2 years and then they started withdrawing from players instead of giving to players "presumably" So, though it is our money in the game, it is still the developers game and in-game item ownership. So, I guess that means they "Have" to control that because they are responsible for what they own. Complete rambling nonsense in my opinion, But I like security. Shroud of the Avatar has designed a specific marketplace for players to setup "Booths" in a online profile like facebook where they can sell their in-game stuff for real-cash.
The only reason I bring up shroud of the avatar is because it is assumed they are working with Neverdie on a Entropia Universe project, aside from that. I don't think I am inclined/ allowed to talk about other games on the Entropia Universe Sourced Websites.
I know of 3 literal- realcash games, I know of 6 games that that have their own currency that is transferable for real-cash and vice versa, "IDK why you don't think Second-Life or Sansar are not "real-games" Social Media games are the largest source of money eating games in the gaming industry and they restrict people from trading items for real cash, Second-life and Sansar offer A LOT more than just "social"-interaction and it features it as being more than just a game because it also offers graphic design and programming features...
so, I am at 9 games, so I lied. 2 of the 6 games are like a game of "Life" with controlling economies, maintaining a paper business, fighting wars through paper tactics and stuff like that. 1 of the 6 games is like a bamfed version of Age of Empire, 2 of the games not only functions strongly similar to Entropia Universe *Less cool though* But they also have a Crypto mining feature that utilizes a small amount of your computer power and uses calculations developed from your actions in the game to generate revenue for your account. SOTA has it's own currency system and people base the currency on a COTO which can be purchased for real-cash to be put in your game but must be traded among players.
There might be more...
 
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