Question: Would it be great to have cycle amount "even" between all activities?

raulpon

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Or at least, some reasonable difference.

I do very little hunting, like 100 times less than crafting for sure and I cycled millions in crafting. Yet my hunting skills are almost twice the level compared to crafting. I spent all my skill pills etc always on crafting.

Why can't we have cycle based or missions for crafting/mining, like we do in hunting? Why do we have to limit hundreds of players to low level crafting and few ubers clicking lvl100 prints to sell 110% MU (same components for low lvl print) items for 250%, because only 10 ppl in game can craft them with reasonable success rate?

Was there ever any explanation to these differences? Why can't we have plenty 100+ hunters, crafters and miners?
 

Deemer

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I would appreciate if you would tell me... how many Orders do you have this month in the Auction? Or maybe the current ones?
 

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Only solution would be to force cash flow between all 3 profesions like "paper rock scissors" game. For example, crafters do hunting gear guns and armors, hunters do mining necesary stuff, miners provide resources for crafters. No hunting gear shall be lootable during hunt to make it work, no miner shall be able to mine without hunters input.

In current system easiest solution would be replacing shrapnel for survey probes in hunting loot and makke survey probe unaviable in TT, just auction and PVP trade. Or at least convert shrapnels into survey probes and make them free sellable on auction etc.
 

raulpon

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I would appreciate if you would tell me... how many Orders do you have this month in the Auction? Or maybe the current ones?
I have no idea what that question has to do with skilling speed? Elaborate?
 

raulpon

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Only solution would be to force cash flow between all 3 profesions like "paper rock scissors" game. For example, crafters do hunting gear guns and armors, hunters do mining necesary stuff, miners provide resources for crafters. No hunting gear shall be lootable during hunt to make it work, no miner shall be able to mine without hunters input.

In current system easiest solution would be replacing shrapnel for survey probes in hunting loot and makke survey probe unaviable in TT, just auction and PVP trade. Or at least convert shrapnels into survey probes and make them free sellable on auction etc.
It still does not solve the skilling speed or amount issue.

Getting to lvl100 hunting is nothing special, we have tons of level 100+. How many level 100+ crafters do we have? Excluding EP casino, real crafters with crafting actual useful items.

Fun fact, in top 50 last 90-180 etc day EL stats, there are maybe 4-5 crafters crafting items, rest are clicking EP/sharpnel.
 

Deemer

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I have no idea what that question has to do with skilling speed? Elaborate?

In general, any craftsman can start processing EP2 from Tuesday to next Monday and it does not cost him any effort to gain skills.

While in the professions Miner and Hunter this action is defined as a bot.

As for the desired markup... if we want a real market economy, let's participate in it?
As you can see, there is no answer... no one stops the players from exchanging 2 chickens for 1 duck, but I do not agree with them to determine how high my profit will be.

Given that each of my items goes through AH I think I have a right to an opinion?
 

raulpon

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I still don't follow how this has anything to do with my question.

My question is simple - if I cycle 1mil ped in crafting, I will gain 100-500-1000x less skills, level wise, than it is for hunter.

Why do I have to cycle 100-500-1000x times more peds to get to lvl100 for example? Why there are no missions, why is leveling so god awful slow for crafters?

How many industrialist skill owners we have compared to whatever lvl60 skill unlocks for hunters (I hit 60 in few irons)? How many lvl100 electronics engineers or armor engineers we got? Hardcore hunters can lvl to 100 in a year? Two years? If I was hardcore crafter, not counting EP4, it would take me lifetime to get to 100 in any profession, since I got to 40 in 5 years and I'm top 50 crafter on active months!

Again, please, this is not a post about Explosive Projectiles. EP is not crafting, it will never be. I'm talking about real component, item, tool, weapon, armor etc crafting to get up to lvl100 in any given profession. With such a low numbers of players, it takes weeks, months, years, to sell goods I can craft on a weekend. We should have higher skill yield for crafting, is what I'm saying.
 

Deemer

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The skill system is not what you expect. There are people who progress more easily and quickly because they understand this, while for most the answer is "patience."


My question was also simple but you did not answer.
Still, I hope I have given you the right direction.
 

raulpon

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Aren't there gizmo bps that boost skill gain?
Yea, that's the thing, I been doing gizmos, but it's still very very very slow.

I have leveled full set of Gizmos 1 to 8 (also Widgets) and on top of that 100k+ clicks on 8, but it got me nowhere close to what I would be level wise if I had hunted instead.

Sure crafting is semiafking, nobody expects to sit and watch 5000 clicks, but the difference in skillgain and level gain vs hunting, is just huge.

It got me to 70 with completing few irons, 1-2PED mobs, while clicking wise 50 irons with 3-6 ped gets me half of that in crafting.
 

raulpon

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The skill system is not what you expect. There are people who progress more easily and quickly because they understand this, while for most the answer is "patience."


My question was also simple but you did not answer.
Still, I hope I have given you the right direction.
You are saying you are progressing faster in crafting, because you know what to craft and when, that I'm crafting wrong items, at wrong times? Thursday to Monday with EP2 is better skillgains? What???

I think you are just trolling. I was talking about crafting and you started with Explosive Projectiles 2 blueprint, I mean, that is like talking about professional poker strategies and you tell me the address of a slot machine.

PS! My active auction orders at any given time are between 15-20k, mostly alien acid/blood, neomex, aurli bones, enbolts and/or oils I need for lvl6+ gizmos, ores/enmatters for vehicle/weapon/amp production, adaptive fire rate, robot components etc etc. Due to market beeing so tiny, I have to spread what I craft, because if I do just one thing, I will be selling it for 10 years. Oh and I have 6017 unread messages from auction sales, because, I move my crafted stuff, quite actively.

Does that answer your completely out of context question?
 

JohnCapital

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As for the desired markup... if we want a real market economy, let's participate in it?
Deemer, I think you misunderstood the OP's question.
You seem to think he's talking markup and peds, but he's talking about skill gains.
 

Deemer

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Let's say you're a new player who still doesn't understand the technology of the game. And you are looking for answers to understand the game better. We will not assume that you want to adjust the game to be more comfortable in your style.

Explosive technology is designed to support the development of craft professions. Therefore, it contains several basic skills that are directly related to any other craft. Vehicle repair also helps with this.

If explosive technology is used with the intention of making, you get a product, but also residue that can be used to fill items that are made by another difficult profession.

Profession and Skill are two different things. So knowledge of skills helps a lot in the overall development. Also, skill training is "directly related to time". If you think that you will gain a little skill from making "Basic Filters" at level 5000 compared to level 100, you are wrong. Skills calculation is based on value, but just because these values decrease doesn't mean you will take less skills at a higher level. Making more expensive items is a bonus added by the fact that you buy time to cut for your end goal. Bonus from "Skill Increase" for a certain period, through pills or a bonus from the game for your actions. But these are additional factors to the main.. time.

So.. If you have the ambition for large levels, making Explosives as in the example before will give you a much bigger advantage than Miners or Hunters, just because the activity can be done 24/7... You want bonus to that.. I'm waiting for your next topic .. "Why am I level 100 and there are players from level 800".

Take time for how skills affect the way you play. You accept the game as a casino.. this is a limited view point.

If in case you really help the development of the economy you have my apologies now! But i still believe that you dont know how the Orders work..

Whatever, I believe that the economic and marketing knowledge of the players from "Twin Peaks" is more extensive than those of MA who work on the economic part of the game .. you?


PS!
Maybe MA will soon make changes to this difficult understanding of skills, because many players do not understand it and are disappointed.

If it is easy to beat everything, then this will affect your expectations for more profit at a later stage. Is this what you are looking for in the game?
 
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Granny Rowan

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I think what the OP is trying to say is that even before EP and the other current gambling BPs, skilling in crafting and mining was and is far, far, slower then hunting. He is asking whether the skills per ped cycled could be adjusted so that crafters and miners are not always seen as inferior to hunters.
Many societies have ranks based on skills, those that hunt least are at a permanent disadvantage when it comes to promotion, despite playing for as long and cycling as much as the hunters.
I would add I would very much like to see a separate section in the HOF board for EP and Gizmos from real crafting. Then we might get some kudos too.
Pre EP I was regularly in top 50 crafters, as I don't do EP I don't think I have made top 50 in past 2 or 3 years. Yet I craft more than ever. It can be very disheartening.

Doing only components and relatively inexpensive amps (say up to 200 ped TT per item) I can cycle ped at a craft terminal faster than I can hunting. yet my skill gains will be far higher from hunting, whether I measure it in time used or ped cycled. I have probably cycled at least as many ped in game in the last few years as a crafter as I have hunting, and slightly less mining. Yet my crafting skills still lag way behind.
Note I have no interest in crafting EPs to skill, I don't believe in outright gambling, also if I want time to play the game I don't want my avatar tied up at a terminal producing useless crap. I want to be out there collecting resources and then return to craft them.
Do I list much on AH.. No.
But guess what, AH isn't only point of sale in game, and the shops I keep supplied, supplies of tools to the skillers on Kronan and private orders keep me busy enough. I am not going to say my turnover because frankly that is my business, but lets just say it is not peanuts.
 

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I understand very well what OP want.. I would be very happy if you have a change in this direction. But if there is a change, go back to the topic after a while to see what we missed.

Maybe I'm wrong too. Greetings and good luck in the game.
 

Granny Rowan

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I have no idea why you think Deemer I was referring to your post and I had read every post made.

I was saying why I agree with the OP that skills in Crafting seem much slower than in hunting. I was not in any way talking about how skills/professions work.
My hunt skills are almost double my crafting skills, yet rise much faster, whether looking at time or ped cycled, yet logically and as per your comments I should skill more slowly as a hunter. MA need to revisit skilling and make sure the balance between professions is fair. If necessary explaining to us why they feel it is. A little transparency never hurt anyone.
 

raulpon

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I think what the OP is trying to say is that even before EP and the other current gambling BPs, skilling in crafting and mining was and is far, far, slower then hunting. He is asking whether the skills per ped cycled could be adjusted so that crafters and miners are not always seen as inferior to hunters.
Many societies have ranks based on skills, those that hunt least are at a permanent disadvantage when it comes to promotion, despite playing for as long and cycling as much as the hunters.
I would add I would very much like to see a separate section in the HOF board for EP and Gizmos from real crafting. Then we might get some kudos too.
Pre EP I was regularly in top 50 crafters, as I don't do EP I don't think I have made top 50 in past 2 or 3 years. Yet I craft more than ever. It can be very disheartening.

Doing only components and relatively inexpensive amps (say up to 200 ped TT per item) I can cycle ped at a craft terminal faster than I can hunting. yet my skill gains will be far higher from hunting, whether I measure it in time used or ped cycled. I have probably cycled at least as many ped in game in the last few years as a crafter as I have hunting, and slightly less mining. Yet my crafting skills still lag way behind.
Note I have no interest in crafting EPs to skill, I don't believe in outright gambling, also if I want time to play the game I don't want my avatar tied up at a terminal producing useless crap. I want to be out there collecting resources and then return to craft them.
Do I list much on AH.. No.
But guess what, AH isn't only point of sale in game, and the shops I keep supplied, supplies of tools to the skillers on Kronan and private orders keep me busy enough. I am not going to say my turnover because frankly that is my business, but lets just say it is not peanuts.
THANK YOU! I thought I was stuck with knobs on that issue :(

I would like to see MA statement on this too. Disparity between roles is huge, I would really like to know why and if there are any plans fixing it or add missions with regular skillgains for crafters/miners too.
 

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I? Hardcore hunters can lvl to 100 in a year? Two years?
wowowow....Level 100 in a year or two ? without chipping in ?
Absolutley no way...no way
You may not have hunted a lot....Lvl 60 is "quite easy", but it is more like the time you need to get to Lvl 50 you need to get to lvl 60 and the time you need to get to lvl 70 is the time you need vlv 60 and so on.
Not done a lot of EPs because...well, can not afford it :D
But from textures I do know, the higher the TT value of the components the higher the skill gain ( as with any profession ? )
And what I got from a very few sessions on EP4s was way way higher in skills than I could ever get in textures.
If one really wants to craft seriously, yes, the progression is slow because you can not possibly comepte with the TT values used in EP4 or a dedicated hunter cycling spending it on decay.
Problem in "real" crafting would rather be, high TT value per click+MU and have somebody willing to buy the product (TT+MU+failed Attempts).

See it that way....
You at least choose something where you can make a profit.
As a texture crafter I am screwed, nobody wants my product (except my TT friends), skill gain for me is almost none existent (ever tried to get a level with generic Leathers at Level 20 texture ? or trying to skill on Atrox or Ambulimax Leathers ?) and the real only thrill I have is finding a rare BP to put in my book :D


...but I admit...not all profession are the same, it is easier to hunt and gain skills, gain levels but I do not think one can compare those levels to mining or crafting.
 

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wowowow....Level 100 in a year or two ? without chipping in ?
Actually level 1 to 100 in hunting is easy obtainable in 5-7 months.If you want to take everything to the extreme, using the best in every scenario and don't care about peds maybe add 20-30tt chip at start you can actually achieve level 100 in under 4 months.
 

WoenK

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Actually level 1 to 100 in hunting is easy obtainable in 5-7 months.If you want to take everything to the extreme, using the best in every scenario and don't care about peds maybe add 20-30tt chip at start you can actually achieve level 100 in under 4 months.
Sorry, but didnt you state that you played 16hours per day (which I would find extreme) and it took you almost 4 months to get from Killstrike to level 100 ?
Going from level 80 to 100 takes about 7k TT in skills, assuming that you still get 1% of the decay produced as skills, that would mean you need to produce roughly 3k PED Decay per day ?

edith...why the hell did I think 4 months are 240 days ? make thos 3k Decay 6k Decay per day
 
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messi91

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Sorry, but didnt you state that you played 16hours per day (which I would find extreme) and it took you almost 4 months to get from Killstrike to level 100 ?
Going from level 80 to 100 takes about 7k TT in skills, assuming that you still get 1% of the decay produced as skills, that would mean you need to produce roughly 3k PED Decay per day ?
I am just saying what is possible TODAY in the current system.I did level 77 to 100 knifefighter hit when I had to max the knife in under 5 weeks.To make it even clear I am stating what is possible and I am not going even further and apply that to everyone and see if they can or not or how much are they going to lose.
 

raulpon

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Thank you Messi.

As fairly new crafter you can and will agree, getting levels in hunting is not only easier (through mission rewards), but it feels like going so much faster vs cycled PED in crafting.

I got to lvl74 in doing few irons on Caly and then some 10k runs on Cultists, while I have cycled millions to get lvl 41 in main crafting profession (gazillion monria dailies).
 

raulpon

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You at least choose something where you can make a profit.
Not talking about input/output/MU/profit etc in this thread at all.

Crafting is and will always be profitable, that does not include EP casino which is not crafting in first place.
 

Deemer

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I am just saying what is possible TODAY in the current system.I did level 77 to 100 knifefighter hit when I had to max the knife in under 5 weeks.To make it even clear I am stating what is possible and I am not going even further and apply that to everyone and see if they can or not or how much are they going to lose.
Better add and what is the difference between blades and guns in the skill gain.. someone may go wrong in the time calculations :ROFLMAO: :wave::banghead::bump:
 

Deemer

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I wonder if MA scored an own goal with Meta or the goal is just to make a big part of the investment so far meaningless and/or just to decrease them for future?!

So.. i cant find more accurate words and her words are very appropriate for the majority at the moment..


..what will be the result if this majority wakes up a bit?


We got Meta.. 10 years old players didnt understand the game.. c'mon.. this is just very big greedy status!
 

Deemer

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Sorry, but didnt you state that you played 16hours per day (which I would find extreme) and it took you almost 4 months to get from Killstrike to level 100 ?
Going from level 80 to 100 takes about 7k TT in skills, assuming that you still get 1% of the decay produced as skills, that would mean you need to produce roughly 3k PED Decay per day ?

edith...why the hell did I think 4 months are 240 days ? make thos 3k Decay 6k Decay per day


The decay is bonus which depends of dynamic things..
Maybe the difference between DMG professions Rifle/Knife will give you this answer.. and also there is another variable which you don't include in your calculations.

PS.. I mean, my scanner level is high and i see some things. Do you using scanners?
 
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