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PETITION: MindArk, please change the crafting system!

MindArk should change the Crafting system

  • Yes! This cant keep up for long!

    Votes: 126 60.3%

  • No! Its fine as it is today, loss or no loss!

    Votes: 39 18.7%

  • I don't care or I have a better idea!

    Votes: 44 21.1%
  • Total voters
    209
DrPaddo

DrPaddo

Dutch Entropia Master
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Ok, seeing everyone agree on the point that Crafting (as it is now) sucks, I hereby want to make a Petition and hopefully MindArk (Marco? Frank?) will eventually leave a comment or a solution for this.

The way Crafting works at this time makes for horendous losses, n00b crafter or uber crafter, it seems that skills dont mean anything when it comes to crafting...

This is not ment as Whining, or whatever, this is just to (hopefully) set MA's thought to the Crafters instead of making mobs regenerate faster or put new ores in the ground!

C'mon ppl lets show them what we're made off!
 
I have read dekels post,and the others.Srry,but i really have to say this:
MANY PEOPLE HERE ARE "BRAINDEAD"-nice movie which was actually banned,so if u get it,watch it.

MA make us bend over far too much,so i have found me a nice solution:computer:.They will keep up,as long as people are addicted to this casino.

Few days ago was a nice documentary,about depression on online games like this and SL...on National Geographic btw.

You feel so lucky when u global and soooo down when not,dont we all:)

Oh,the pool,i voted for the change even if i dont craft at all,but it just hurts to hear that 600$ are gonne into their pockets...well,gasoline is expensive:)
 
MayDay thnx for your post, as I mentioned earlier:
-----------------------------------
Wich reminds me of Ben Cobra Boner, who claimed he lost $30K Bux in a month doing Amps, is this the way to treat the people who put their wagers at stake? Some say "Deposit what you can miss" and I have to agree on that, but for some people they are in over their heads and think that by depositing some more their ATH will pop up some day.
-----------------------------------

Thats basically what you ment too right? :D
 
I don't really think it's all that different from the other major professions in EU (hunting, mining). You take the risk you're comfortable with and either win or lose. Crafting high level items is similar to mining with a big amp, or hunting a big mob.

I do wish that there were more stages to crafting (1->2->3->4) that would bring several lesser crafted parts into a higher level item. It seems that's becoming more common now, so that's good.

Edit: Didn't vote on the poll, as a poll with all options ending in exclamations can't possibly be objective. :laugh:
 
Found this in the other topic, and might add I find it very intresting.

dekel said:
the one saying MA cant afford giving us fair COS cause it will cause an unlimtied supply of items has a point, but MA controll it via ores anyway.

i mean, if zand was droping like crazy, the rich ones of us could do 1000s clicks vrx2k and get a decent success rate, but MA limit that one...

they do 2 limitations atm, and thats aint fair, its either, we get unlimited ore supply and than we can afford the current COS variantions, or we get a fair cos and a limited ore supply..

atm we have both and thats what bad, few years back it wasnt like that and sysytem worked :) so well, i guess they can find a solution.

btw, on the higher end bps lvl11+ they did add another limitation (finally btw), the skill limitantion. so... there are other ways :)
Click to expand...

He does have a good point here, thats what this topic is ment for:

Adjust the rare ore drop rate / better output on crafters.
(this will cause the rare ores to keep thei value aswell)

Drop more rare ores so that crafters can do bigger runs with more fails / near suceses.
(This will cause the rare ore prices to drop tho)
 
you arent humping a nasty girl you really didnt want to hump do ya ??????

So if you dont like online casino's what MA isnt implementing then you can better leave.

Why do people whine and whine and dont leave ???? evryone was laughing when i was leaving but ....... Atleast i got the balls to quit and come back.

But , people would find this a useless post and such, but i have to say big boohooo, go cry in the corner, who said that crafting was profitable ???? or even alltime playing with no deposit ???

Just a tip: go pay like the rest of us, and dont whine so much, you will ruin a lot more than only your own loot when people really quit.

So cut the rest some slack, dont begin with petitions because we know that the 2pec petition was a dambuster too, they got a whole pec of the equip( bug) lol.

A bug is something what is wrong, and a mob are multiple creatures in a group. welcome to the real world, the world that wants money for your oxygen. welcome........
 
I think you can submit your petition and there may very well be many signatories. However, I doubt it will do much good.

My opinion is that all these changes by MA are born out of RL necessity. As a very small company trying to punch above their weight, they have got way out their depth with CE2.

I believe it is costing way more than they expected and taking far longer to implement. With private finance markets not smiling favourably on ventures of this kind, there is only one avenue left open, players pockets.

If you want EU to survive then I reckon you will have no choice but to live with it.

(Thoughts based on info in Financial Statement for Q1 2008)
 
CE2 cost them LOOOOOADs of cash, they have to get it from somewhere...
all the advertising, they have to get the money from somewhere...
all the wages, they have to get the money from somewhere...

well guess where they get the money from??? ...

yes, its us ;) and thats how its allways going to be
 
True Juan said:
CE2 cost them LOOOOOADs of cash, they have to get it from somewhere...
all the advertising, they have to get the money from somewhere...
all the wages, they have to get the money from somewhere...

well guess where they get the money from??? ...

yes, its us ;) and thats how its allways going to be
Click to expand...

And I don't really care what people say tbh, but I really think that loot will improve with space being implemented.
See, they will drop tons of items then, and they are probably saving up for that.
 
I always thought that the whole crafting system was stupid. The concept of public crafting machines where you throw in a few ingredients and press a button is idotic. The entire system needs to be chaged to make it a much more complex and realistic experience.

That being said, I think there is a mistaken impression that the returns form crafting are based on the cost of the ingredients. The returns are based on the tt value of the ingredients. The markup you pay for the ingredients goes to another player to help pay their repair bills.

The only chance of recovering your costs or making a profit is to only craft items you can charge a good markup on. Anything other than that is just skill grinding and I'm not seeing why there should be a profit in that.

I typically do one crafting run per week of items that I will sell. I run between 10 and 20 items and put them up for sale. When they are gone, I'll do more. In reality, my COS and ROI for those items is pretty decent. I really can't complain much.

Lately, I have also taken up skill grinding on textures because I get tons of materials from hunting. It is tedious, the returns suck, and I haven't seen a global in over 3000 clicks. The only reasons I do it is for the skills and it gives me an excuse to log in and chat.

So that's my crafting week, 20 clicks of break even/small profit, and 2k clicks of pissing away peds. But, at least I go into it with the understanding that that's how it's going to be.
 
I was always wondering about the successrates on maxed out bps.

Of course RL doesn't count as comparison, but always funny to imagine you walk half asleep to your bakery and they say "Sorry, no bagles today, we had a terrible successrate..."

Just happy RL is far from EU.

Personally I think crafting should be more linear. Give 100% successrate on maxed out bps, scratch the globals. Lets see how many real crafters stay and what the market wants. Would be of course something totally different.
 
Be carefull to what you wish , you may get it,and from experience , you will hate it even more , and loss more money...
 
I don't know all that much about crafting - I certainly like the idea, and wouldn't mind being able to make some of the things that my avatar would use in her day-to-day life... so I messed with it a couple times, got a bunch of residue instead of anything I could actually use and said "Ok, despite the high COS, the high COST is going to keep me away from doing this any time soon."

Yes, I realize these things are highly skill-based, but even the most basic items often require materials the beginning crafter is unlikely to be able to acquire without paying the ridiculous auction markups - and even then, most of the time items in auction are sold in huge lots 500+, 1000+, and up.

If I wanted to make a laser sight for my carbine, I'd have no use for 993 more pieces of duraluminum ingots once I made what I wanted - so it either goes back into the Auction (fees charged to list, fees charged to sell...) or into the TT (no fees, but sell is a loss compared to auction markup) - or if I'm really lucky - I find someone else who needs SOME of this, and sell it off at a reasonable price - one where the buyer doesn't feel robbed, and I'm not going broke trying to unload something for which I have no more use.

Ahh, but that's what crafting suggested to me - when in reality it turns out that "crafting" is more like "manufacturing" - and that most crafted items (it seems) are simply sold for profit, or horded for some reason.

~I
 
Any changes should have been made in 5,2 where they changed the system to what it is now, the old system was more complex and the number of products produced alot less

Changing the system now seems a really big impact and the compensations some people would recieve astronomical
 
i myself lost alot on crafting, i have got some hof but they were always giving 30% of my loses, which is totally wrong to me...

Ive made a personnal experiment recently, i tho ill never share the result because i was ashamed of the ending... but i think it fit with the current petition...


So the 1st part of my experiment went totally bad even if i had took( to my knowledge) some precautions...

What i did : put my armor, weapon, ores, item, etc in bank, everything i had ive put it in bank... so i raised near 30k in ped.


Btw i have alot of engineering which i wont divulgue... and most my crafting lvl are above lvl25, for amps i was lvl25, most crafting i do is weapon and i am lvl30 in almost all weapons related.

Before starting the clicking :

i borrowed a 100QR bp OA101 from a friend.

I made sure no one was getting a HOF/ATH on amps for atleast 6hours(which rarely happen, there always 1 per 3hours normally)...

Went on a machine very much popular for crafting amp... alot of ppl craft there...
​

so i started clicked for 6 hours long.

Result : 30k start, 1k end(residue and amp sold), i had recycled all the result till i got broke cause i wanted it to be a real experiment of how far i could go with my toys-gameworth(all my gears items)

I was totally shocked, i was expecting a 80% result, like i used to have normally on others craftings... but i ended up with 1% result... not to mention i had no hof on the way, not even a 200ped hof, nothing, all under 100ped global...

So i was shocked as i said earlier, logged off crying and went for the night...

The other day i logged again, checked the HOF list, there was a little 1k hof on amps, another 700ped, but nothing much, nothing justifying my 30k lost into them... so i tho that if i try again i could get it back cause it was still in the loot pool...

so before doing i had to get some ped back, i used the last 1k i had from the last night and got back iron/typo i had put to bank... and did killian sword(cause killian had no hof in the last 2 days)

i got there a bit more lucky, hit a 10k hof on the killian sword... sweet, i said... but where is my others 20k? i had lost 30k, 10k is only 30% return..,

i told myself ill use that 10k and do a run on amps. so i did... and even added 4k(deposit) more making a 14k run...

and i lost it all in 3hours, ive got like 30global of 60ped only, all the rest was misses... and for what?

Simply because Auktuma ATH was coming(he got 40k+) so yeah i totally filled over 50% of is ATH. The worst is auktuma got is ATH the seconds i finished clicking my last ped...

So yeah, within 48h i lost over 30k ped, i didnt had that money at first hand and i took a risk, but in my head that wasnt such a big risk cause there always a % return. Saddly this time(or whatever, its always like that recently) i got under 10% return and all my armor weapons etc i had put in bank to raise the fund

Why does the ped you loses dont come back quicker? especially when were talking in k's of ped... why i had to fill all the ATH of a uber crafter everyone know... and on that one dont tell me he lost 50k making ghost harness plz? :eek:

i could be okay with the fact that you do a 500ped run and lose, then u manage to do a 300ped run after and u get back 400... making it a decent loses overall(cause u got skills)... but i can tell that i did run over 5000clicks on condition with a global every 100's click only.

So far, everything i had ingame, is still in the bank, im broke, i borrowed money from a friend to just "ROTATE" items i had in bank.

I think its just a big warning to everyone, crafting is broken, whatever u put u losing it at the expense of higher skilled ppl, if not simply assigned manually by MA? :cool:

Earlier, I did those experiments on others type of crafting that cost less to do and the result was same, on 5000click run it still loses and it seem its always a known crafter who "manage" to do what u were crafting and hof on it. That was my experiment on not commonly crafted item.

As for the popular craft item(oa101), the ped lost into that is still there or it was shifted to pay auktuma ath(ghost harness) ... i think so...

why is this crafting system so losing ped?

i sign the petition.
 
I might get some -rep for this, but I really enjoy when some people loose because of greed! :D
No offence, but even as a newb I know that there are times when one will loose big time after several tries and better slow down.
The "big one" comes when the time for it has come, quite sure there is no way to "force" it.
For me crafting works the way it should be. If I want to gamble and go all about condition, I might succeed or not.
If I go more for quantity I do not loose too much.
But blaming the system for the own stupidity ?
Sorry, only the person at the keys is to blame.
 
yeah i agree with cobra

MA has never and will never make the game or aspects of the game less expensive or more favorable to players.
You only do things like that to attract players and MA has plenty of suckers so now they are in a phase of drain them dry and wait for the next batch...
 
dotc0m said:
i myself lost alot on crafting, i have got some hof but they were always giving 30% of my loses, which is totally wrong to me...

Ive made a personnal experiment recently, i tho ill never share the result because i was ashamed of the ending... but i think it fit with the current petition...


So the 1st part of my experiment went totally bad even if i had took( to my knowledge) some precautions...

What i did : put my armor, weapon, ores, item, etc in bank, everything i had ive put it in bank... so i raised near 30k in ped.


Btw i have alot of engineering which i wont divulgue... and most my crafting lvl are above lvl25, for amps i was lvl25, most crafting i do is weapon and i am lvl30 in almost all weapons related.

Before starting the clicking :

i borrowed a 100QR bp OA101 from a friend.

I made sure no one was getting a HOF/ATH on amps for atleast 6hours(which rarely happen, there always 1 per 3hours normally)...

Went on a machine very much popular for crafting amp... alot of ppl craft there...
​

so i started clicked for 6 hours long.

Result : 30k start, 1k end(residue and amp sold), i had recycled all the result till i got broke cause i wanted it to be a real experiment of how far i could go with my toys-gameworth(all my gears items)

I was totally shocked, i was expecting a 80% result, like i used to have normally on others craftings... but i ended up with 1% result... not to mention i had no hof on the way, not even a 200ped hof, nothing, all under 100ped global...

So i was shocked as i said earlier, logged off crying and went for the night...

The other day i logged again, checked the HOF list, there was a little 1k hof on amps, another 700ped, but nothing much, nothing justifying my 30k lost into them... so i tho that if i try again i could get it back cause it was still in the loot pool...

so before doing i had to get some ped back, i used the last 1k i had from the last night and got back iron/typo i had put to bank... and did killian sword(cause killian had no hof in the last 2 days)

i got there a bit more lucky, hit a 10k hof on the killian sword... sweet, i said... but where is my others 20k? i had lost 30k, 10k is only 30% return..,

i told myself ill use that 10k and do a run on amps. so i did... and even added 4k(deposit) more making a 14k run...

and i lost it all in 3hours, ive got like 30global of 60ped only, all the rest was misses... and for what?

Simply because Auktuma ATH was coming(he got 40k+) so yeah i totally filled over 50% of is ATH. The worst is auktuma got is ATH the seconds i finished clicking my last ped...

So yeah, within 48h i lost over 30k ped, i didnt had that money at first hand and i took a risk, but in my head that wasnt such a big risk cause there always a % return. Saddly this time(or whatever, its always like that recently) i got under 10% return and all my armor weapons etc i had put in bank to raise the fund

Why does the ped you loses dont come back quicker? especially when were talking in k's of ped... why i had to fill all the ATH of a uber crafter everyone know... and on that one dont tell me he lost 50k making ghost harness plz? :eek:

i could be okay with the fact that you do a 500ped run and lose, then u manage to do a 300ped run after and u get back 400... making it a decent loses overall(cause u got skills)... but i can tell that i did run over 5000clicks on condition with a global every 100's click only.

So far, everything i had ingame, is still in the bank, im broke, i borrowed money from a friend to just "ROTATE" items i had in bank.

I think its just a big warning to everyone, crafting is broken, whatever u put u losing it at the expense of higher skilled ppl, if not simply assigned manually by MA? :cool:

Earlier, I did those experiments on others type of crafting that cost less to do and the result was same, on 5000click run it still loses and it seem its always a known crafter who "manage" to do what u were crafting and hof on it. That was my experiment on not commonly crafted item.

As for the popular craft item(oa101), the ped lost into that is still there or it was shifted to pay auktuma ath(ghost harness) ... i think so...

why is this crafting system so losing ped?

i sign the petition.
Click to expand...



Man, sorry to hear about your loses, but crafting is not for you, I think. Switch on your brain, dont play roulette as you did. Everyone here can choose between game, pure gambling (a lot of ppl here r gamblers) and service like activity that only can give you some steady profit (but not huge profit). Please dont mortgage your home to feed everyone here, you need the house more then EU.

Sincerely,
 
The only thing I like they can alter for crafting is:

  • Extend the proccesing time. (to enhance boredom like hunting is becomming)
  • Make an accept button per click. Press manufacture and then need to press an accept button on annother location on the screen (with "Y" button disabled) to exclude autoclickers
  • No higher hofs possible on the low level animaloil shit like 1k+

And where are you talking about Paddo? Skilled? :rofl:
 
qwerty said:
Man, sorry to hear about your loses, but crafting is not for you, I think. Switch on your brain, dont play roulette as you did. Everyone here can choose between game, pure gambling (a lot of ppl here r gamblers) and service like activity that only can give you some steady profit (but not huge profit). Please dont mortgage your home to feed everyone here, you need the house more then EU.

Sincerely,
Click to expand...

My experiment wasnt stupid at all, and far from roulette...

experimented crafter will tell u thats how u lose as much, simply because u can tell when a hof is coming, but u have to take the risk it involve as well.... my experiment was to prove that even if you click large amount u can lose it all if Ma want to award another hero...


On a side note, what everyone should conclude of that "EXPERIMENT" is that the ath went to a uber crafter. pyramid style gaming! and MA did only wait less than 1min of my clicks sessions to award it.
 
dotc0m said:
that was money i had ingame, and it wasnt like playing black on roulette. it was like playing 5000 roulette roll always on number 7.

and it failed.


On a side note, what everyone should conclude of that "EXPERIMENT" is that the ath went to a uber crafter. pyramid style gaming!
Click to expand...

did you click it all on full condition?
 
dotc0m said:
My experiment wasnt stupid at all, and far from roulette...

experimented crafter will tell u thats how u lose as much, simply because u can tell when a hof is coming, but u have to take the risk it involve as well.... my experiment was to prove that even if you click large amount u can lose it all if Ma want to award another hero...


On a side note, what everyone should conclude of that "EXPERIMENT" is that the ath went to a uber crafter. pyramid style gaming! and MA did only wait less than 1min of my clicks sessions to award it.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I think you r wrong. Can you estimate how much that uber crafter lose (tt value I mean)? No, u dont know. U r not the only person who is filling the lootpoll. Definitly, sometimes (very offen) MA makes a desicion to play a jeckpot game (island with niksarium, for example, is one of the place with permanent big jeckpot gaming now) and most who play this game will lose, only one win. Its up to u if u want to play such kind of game. So will not be surprised.
 
Last edited:
Doer said:
I do wish that there were more stages to crafting (1->2->3->4) that would bring several lesser crafted parts into a higher level item. It seems that's becoming more common now, so that's good.
Click to expand...

This is how it used to be. This was way better. If I remember right, Sterling & Moss, started by trading components. Sorry that was off topic.

MA will not change that. I would send out the perception that they were weak, and also because it would cut into the profit margin. The profit margin is more important now that MA wants to be on the London Exchange (Don't they...?).

/Pele
 
Snabble said:
did you really log off crying?

:wtg:
Click to expand...

I've stoped :laugh:. Only tryed to explain that ppl themself r the main reason for their HUGE loses, not MA who awards only choosen :)yay: MA its me who said that, MA). lol
GL for everyone
 
I think the system has a problem with the fact that some use AC and other don't. Other than that it works just fine. I know people that make profit crafting and people that make loses crafting. Same in hunting and mining. So the problem is not the system, but the way you approach it. The most difficult part in crafting is not clicking... but understanding the system. As it is in hunting and mining.
Only one thing to say... if you can't manage the losses in crafting, and you keep loosing money, stop crafting or think better. If you can't solve a riddle, it dose not mean it has no answer.
 
In a real cash economy not one company would make anything without knowing the cost and result of the process. In EU we cannot know either. MA contols the outcome and the resources. Time for a change.
 
Blinding Light said:
This is how it used to be. This was way better. If I remember right, Sterling & Moss, started by trading components. Sorry that was off topic.
Click to expand...

Yepp, I used to buy components from them to craft weapons. Then one day all my components stock was changed to metal ingiots and all my BP's had their QR reset. That's when I took a break for a few years.

:topic:

Ah, yes ofcours!
I think the system works decent as it is. If you craft on condition you know you are takeing a great risk. You have a choise. That said I wouldn't mind if the big hof/ath's where tuned down a bit to increase average returns instead.
 
Doing 30k worth of amps in one run is not crafting, it's gambling.

Anyway. There is one major problem with crafting, and that is the very long bad loot periods which makes it near impossible to estimate what the outcome of a crafting run will be.

But as Etopia said, I'm not so sure MA could fix this without screwing something else up.
 
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