FYI: A Mob's Level & What It Might Mean.

How many times do I have to tell you? Your theory is nonsense.

Go and kill 1 Hogglo Young.
Go and kill 1 SEG 1.
Go and kill 1 Ambu Young.

Note the L numbers.

Anyone at any Evader level can do this within 5 minutes and immediately see that your theory is balls.

Oleg said:

How many times do I have to tell you? Your theory is nonsense. Go and kill 1 Hogglo Young. Go and kill 1 SEG Gen01. Go & kill 1 Ambu Young. Note the L numbers. Anyone at any Evader level can do this within 5 minutes and immediately see that your theory is balls.

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Er actually no, that wouldn't be right. Not anyone at any evader can do such tests on seg's vs evader; maybe to find out the L's yes thats ok. Tell me the L for all the seg's available or I might as well check it ingame & do it myself. Atm it seems SEG's are not to be classified as a full regen mob so I will use the non regen formula against it's L & I will tell you if I find any thing remotely interesting there for you to read, ok Oleg.

But based on the stats/data provided by people in the community in the evade thread (by ace) to find out about where you can effectively begin to start evading the bigger mobs & the results my formula's provided (I would say 95% ish) was correct if not close to the mark. Therefore it is not so I disagree with you Oleg.

Let's provide some examples or at least get to the bottom of the mobs you suggested. Hogglo was established that it is not a regen mob, therefore my results are correct based on the Formula used for it. However it seems that lv40 is boarderline starting to miss the hunter marginally, so an additional 5 lvs should be added for caution. Remember my hypothesis is "only a guideline not an exact math". Please keep that in mind ppl.

Ok now I need the L readings for the maturities available for SEG's anyone know them? I get the feeling Oleg that you are just dismissing this totally & not looking close enough at my findings, the L does seem to indict something & I am not the only one in the community who seems to think likewise, maybe we're all bonkers .

Ambu young = L37 / 2 + 5 = 23.5 evader. The exact evader I have & I must say they hardly hit me. Is my theory still & Oleg? Are you seriously going to just dismiss it as gargon & bash it with harsh critiques, hm? I'm not simply going to drop this or dismiss it because you believe you are right Oleg. So I'll pop in ingame and took a look at SEG & Furor's L ratings & I'll report back later on.

I've deemed Furor not a super regen mob. Full regen formula will be used for all maturity, with young at L39. Formula is L39/2 = 19.5 minimal evader (&+5) = 24.5 optimal evader, is a good estimate to work with. Worker maturity, formula is the same L44/2 = 22 (&+5) = 27, so 22/27 evader is needed. Patron maturity L56/2 = 28 (&+5) = 33 evader. Thief L62/2 = 31 (&+5) = 36, so 31/36 evader is needed. Rogue maturity L69/2 = 34.5 (&+5) = 39.5, so 34.5/39.5 evader is needed for these maturities. Now all that needs to happen is for ppl to try their evader out on these numbers/maturities to gauge its effectiveness or not, it is very much still needed. Otherwise this theory will stay as such without that hard data to verify against it .

Segs are non/regen therefore should be L36 (&+5), 36/41 evader is needed. Since I don't have that evader on my avi someone will have to check out its effectivness otherwise like Hogglo a further 5 lvs may need adding.
Later on during the week if I have time I will compile a complete list of non regen, full regen & super regen mobs & the evader you need based off my formula's & for people to simply test it out. However people can take some initiative to get started as the formula's explain how they are used vs a mobs rate of regen. So stay tuned.

M Rufen Power said:

I've come to the conclusion that araneatrox who on young has a regen speed of 16.6 health per second.

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Where did you get that regen speed from?
The values in entropedia are only (more or less) educated guesses, and to make it even worse they are rounded towards erraneous base metrics.

BTW, I think hit rate/and degree is also affected by the dmg you do to the mob ( hit rate inversely related to dmg you do on mob)... how are you controlling that factor?

wizzszz said:

Where did you get that regen speed from? The values in entropedia are only (more or less) educated guesses, and to make it even worse they are rounded towards erraneous base metrics.

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I have no answer to this. How could one effectively understand the rate a mob regens at, how is it done correctly so I can try do some tests? If you know please let me know tyvm wizz.

Infinity01 said:

BTW, I think hit rate/and degree is also affected by the dmg you do to the mob ( hit rate inversely related to dmg you do on mob)... how are you controlling that factor?

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If your referring to the amount of times a weapons can be fired per minute ie attacks per minute affecting a mobs attack pattern (HA), ie what you call (inversed HA, I think?) again I have no answer to that.

I guess that your weapons rate of fire has a different effect on all mobs with different attacks per minute also and their HA vs your evader. I have no solution to this apparent X factor into my conclusions. Otherwise I guess using a low dmg interval weapon so it takes longer to kill target, would maybe help?

Infinity01 said:

BTW, I think hit rate/and degree is also affected by the dmg you do to the mob ( hit rate inversely related to dmg you do on mob)... how are you controlling that factor?

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This has been disproven long ago (not by me though), at least i have been told that damage you deal to a mob has no effect on how often it hits you.

M Rufen Power said:

How could one effectively understand the rate a mob regens at, how is it done correctly so I can try do some tests? If you know please let me know tyvm wizz.

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Well, you can read what i wrote in the related thread (here) - it is basically "regenerated HP over time", but regen comes in "ticks"...

However, to get exact results you have to blast a shitload of ammo into the same mob, making sure it's health doesn't go too close to 100% again for at least 20 minutes (high regen mobs, low regen may require even more time) and using a very small finisher weapon helps improve the error caused by overkill (preferably use a weapon that has it's dmg/sec mostly from a high attacks per min. and deals only a little more damage/sec than the expected regen_hp/sec).

Counting how many ticks actually occur during the killing would help, too (although it can be calc'ed with an error of +/-1 only, or somewhat sync'ed if you know the "seconds/tick" for that particular mob - should be same for all maturities, some results hint that they are somehow related on other mobs, but that's still subject to research...)

Thanks wizzszz, looks overly complicated , maybe leave things for you to handle?
I'm off to bed you guys have kept me up for more hours than I should be awake , gn.

Do you think Leviathan regen's as fast as atrox does would you say, so is it regen or full regen group?

Magyar_Republic said:

Hey Mark,

Your theory doesnt work with my evade level (21) vs Maffoid (min 23).

I evade most hits a Maffoid does, the mobs pose so little danger to me that I fight them without armor most of the time. I tank them in singles, pairs, or up to groups of 4 without need for armor, healing rather casually & can generally take 1 & sometimes 2 without healing at all during the course of combat. Good theory, but either Maffoid's have something special going for them or its missing something.

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Yes & I just found out what is that thing is missing. You didn't mention that they regen faster than Atrox. How dare you say my theory doesn't work (you missed this vital info out). Therefore the needed formula is different & so would the outcome. Maybe you didn't read the formula criteria properly on your first read? Not sure how you could of missed the different formula's. But anyway, my theory once again is proved right (if someone could verify it) since it is deemed a "full regen" mob it's evader now changes to 11.5/16.5.

~Mark~

Ok I'm done now. I've updated & listed all the mobs in the apart right places (for now). Should anyone take the initiative to report back their findings & if my listing doesn't match then perphaps it's in the wrong group or something else went wrong & will try to find out why like as what happened with maffoids. Change conclusions, make corrections etc.

Other than that I'll leave the rest to the "community" to do the majority of the testing for this as I'am on hiatus atm. But I'll do what I can based off my pro standing & will try conduct tests etc to verify stuff such as the estimates as I go along which will be very slow of course without help. So it's up to you guys really, if you want things verified quickly.

I'll try keep this thread alive with bumps as best as I can so it doesn't disappear totally. But a large portion of the "elite buffins" in EU/PCF deem me a loonybin or at best fault my theory even with the best of inventions from my part. This will probably be my last contribution to the community as I can't totally be 100% sure about my theory, so yeah, gl!

~Mark~

Nice effort here, Mark. A +rep for you

raynopssgold said:

Nice effort here, Mark. A +rep for you

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Cheers Bro, greatly appreciated indeed . May this help the future hunters of calypso .

bump up my post!

bump up my post!

I'll go test L1 Chirpy Gaurdian for you

but there is more to the Level than just evader.. their HP, attacks/min, agro-range, damage types and regen, I reckon all play a factor.


L8 Longu Young - 310HP - 42 dmg(imp/cut)
L9 Argo Adult - 300HP -30 dmg(imp/cut)
L8 Merp Young - 50 HP - 17 dmg(imp/stab)

first two do roughly the same distribution of imp/cut dmg types. at face value you think longu is more difficult (more hp and hits harder), but you can nearly stand on a Longu before he attacks you. I have no idea which misses more, both miss me quite often.

Then there is Merp, which has longer agro range than Argonaut, and tiny HP. they don't miss as often, so L8 there, i'd say, is definitely attributed to at least high agro-range and evader reciprocal.

Good info Mark!
+rep for ya

I guess it needs more detailed testing - but I think you are close to it

Not really necessary. Try a mob/maturity you are interested in, if it hits you too much for your liking, don't hunt it.

Kid Squirrel said:

I'll go test L1 Chirpy Gaurdian for you

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What a comedian. Please go test on mobs that actually fight back.
Might be a good start or you could be on Chirpy forever, mkay? .

Kid Squirrel said:

but there is more to the Level than just evader.. their HP, attacks/min, agro-range, damage types and regen, I reckon all play a factor.

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I'm well aware of that fact (dmg type I don't think does) & I'm not discounting what can attribute to the L of mobs. But I'm still going to disagree with you based on your 3 mob selection, which is a good example. But please prove me wrong cause I won't do the work for you . So go test it & see what you find.

Xen said:

Not really necessary. Try a mob/maturity you are interested in, if it hits you too much for your liking, don't hunt it.

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If your going into battle without first knowing your opponents strenghts there is no point fighting it (ie hunting above your level). At least now people can see what is above their level based on their limitations. Needless to say it is not unecessary & people are appreciative of my post here. But hey it's your opinion & that's fine.

Schism said:

Good info Mark!
+rep for ya

I guess it needs more detailed testing - but I think you are close to it

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Thanks schism, I think I'm close too, yes but needs more work. It's not perfect yet.

Interesting thread, even if its not 100% right it can help a lot to newbie hunters to decide what to hunt effectively. But what really puzzles me why do jamraiders have L10 when they never attack

M Rufen Power said:

I'm well aware of that fact (dmg type I don't think does) & I'm not discounting what can attribute to the L of mobs

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Sorry, I took your thread up the wrong way round.. which is why my Chirpy statement didn't make any sense.

I'm not poking fun at you or saying your theory is completely wrong, in fact off hand from my own experience, I'd say it seems to correlate pretty close, but when anomalies start to appear, you have to ask weather there are other things to consider.

Furor, btw, seems a bit strange too:
L39 Furor Adept - 19.5/24.5 Evader. at lvl 15 evader I can stand in front of one for a long time and watch it repeatedly miss. on average, they definitely miss me more than 50% of the time.

M Rufen Power said:

But please prove me wrong cause I won't do the work for you

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hey now, that's not nice, isn't it you that's asking others to collect data for you?!! lol

M Rufen Power said:

So go test it & see what you find.

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Lol no, I really can't be arsed.

No matter what lvl it is I'll slay it!... When I come home

MartinXVI said:

Interesting thread, even if its not 100% right it can help a lot to newbie hunters to decide what to hunt effectively. But what really puzzles me why do jamraiders have L10 when they never attack

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That's due to some of the other stats that cant L into consideration.
I would think due to HP, stamina etc, it is quite funny though .

Kid Squirrel said:

I'm not poking fun at you or saying your theory is completely wrong, in fact off hand from my own experience, I'd say it seems to correlate pretty close, but when anomalies start to appear, you have to ask weather there are other things to consider.

Furor, btw, seems a bit strange too:
L39 Furor Adept - 19.5/24.5 Evader. At lvl 15 evader I can stand in front of one for a long time and watch it repeatedly miss. On average, they definitely miss me more than 50% of the time.

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I know you meant well, but I as an individual do not take to sarcasm very well. I know it's not perfect but I will consider other options to incorporate into the method. If I'm wrong that's fine, I'll change things for the better. But Well for me it's different when I hunt furors & for me at about lv19 it misses around 50%, so your own experience isn't discounted but can help verify things better.

No idea why you would be getting 50% at lv 15, maybe on average your getting lucky there or is it maybe you don't hunt them solo? But still helps so thanks, but don't forget that it's not 100% fool prove & that it's basically used as a guideline imo not a definitive answer or solution. But either way it helps me gauge whether or not I can hunt something well enough without it being above my level.

Kid Squirrel said:

hey now, that's not nice, isn't it you that's asking others to collect data for you?!! lol. Lol no, I really can't be arsed.

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No your mistaken again. I'm not asking the data for myself, I need the data from others, as their data is for the community. I'm already collecting data but I can't do things accurately or fast atm, as I'm not playing as much as I was before hand. So if "you" can't be arsed to help out your fellow calypsonians that's fine by me I'm looking for people who can be bothered to contribute. But that's honestly not helping anyone & it won't help dis/prove my theory I'd just be another cooook. But that's fine thanks for posting here.

johan roadkill said:

No matter what lvl it is I'll slay it!... When I come home

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Hey, johan nice of you to pop in again . If that's so go and slay a warlock gen10 .