SPACE --- Alive and Vibrant with a lot of Action ?

I guess the real question I am asking is:
"Do you think Space is developing and becoming more functional as time passes?"

I see many issues that still need to be seriously addressed. But I do believe that it is developing and becoming more viable. It also seems that not only are a lot more "Warp Capable Ships" becoming more active, but a lot more people are also becoming more active in Space. The high costs to the individuals is only a small part of what could be concieved as one of its major problems.

One of the most important issies that I percieve is the constant disconnection Partivipants undergo. Most often this occurs when Ships are Warping. This is a major issue as when you see your crew disappearing you know you have lost half your defence and offence when you have completed the warp.

Even the Pilots are often disconnected. When this happens not only can the Pilot NOT log back in until the Warp is completed, the Pilots Seat remains occupied until long after the warp is completed. This results in no one being able to take control of the Shihp for extended amounts of time, creating a long period of time that the ship is NOT CONTROLLED and VULNERABLE.

The same can be said for when Repair Crew and Gunner Crews are also disconnected. This undoubtedly creates a huge amount of vulnerabilty to any Ship. Of course I am sure we will have the SI Mongers scream "Build your SI up to "XYZ-to the power of Uranus". Great idea ! There are one or two small problems with this.

We have estimated that with the new "Armament Devices" five(5) Mothership Guns in unision can do around 1000 points of damage to the SI of a ship per shot. For your Repair Crew to balance th8is damage you would need ten(10) RK-20s per repair point. Include those who just got DCed and you had better count on Twenty(20). If my calculations on this is correct start looking ofr a Crew of Eighty(80) RK-20s to cover all four(4) Repair Points on a MS.

For those who don't know I believe that an Armament Device III will allow up to Ten(10) Guns barrelling at you at any given time.

With these figures in mind(Only rough estimates) you have well and truely exceeded the number of "Active Guests" you can have on your Ship at any given time, so it is best to put your head between your legs and hope you are kissing Pluto.

I feel there may be two solution to help relieve this situation other than having the "Disconnection Issues" corrected. However I feel they must be co-joined as one is not of much good without the other. Firstly, Ships like my own, will need to look at some serious upgrades on thier SI, Even those with the much higher SI may have to consider some serious upgrades as well. Secondly, now that MindArk have increased the Fire Power abilities of Ships they should look at improving the Repair Abilities of Repair Crews and the Tools they are using.





With this said it has to be kept in mind that MindArk may be considering other additions to "Warp Capable Ships". Possible new Devices.

"Shield Device" Using power provided by the "Ships Power Scource" After XYZ Damage it collapses and the Ships actual SI will start to collapse. The Strength of these "Shield Devices" could be determined by the Level of the "Shield Device" and the Level of the "Power Scource". Once these "Shields" have been damaged they could require a period of time to "Regenerate" to full strength. The "Rate of Regeneration could also be determined by the Levels of both "Shield and Power Devices"

Please note:
Shield Devices are something that I pullled out of My an*! and is not something that is currently in the pipeline that I am aware of.


Please keep in mind:
This Post is not meant to "Start another Flame War" It is hopefully more of an opeining for s on individuals views on the "Future of Space' and includes a little rambling on current issues.

Yes space is developing - slowly - very slowly - not anywhere as fast as it should considering that we are aproaching the third year of alpha-space and still are way behind in comparison to the progress other game developers made in a fraction of that time.
Its a competing market were competition raises the level on what to expect from a working space environment every day.

The original promises made uppon mothership sales included shield devices to be added in future and im quite sure they will be working like armors planetside but in connection with the promised 'reactor-system' in a way much more flexible and dynamic allowing for more strategic space battles in connection with the basic structural integrity concept that was put in place right from the start.

I have said back then that i expect ships to be able and possibly require a million+ structural integrity at some point and many people might have heared that but didnt want to believe in the grand scale of mindarks space vision. Thought if one considers the level of scale mindark has put in place for avatar development in this universe then its just a logical step to realise how they prepared this 'pay-as-you-grow'-model for their start-up of space which is possibly one reason why they take this long to get it setup and tweaked just right before speeding up development.

Armament Device III has been tested with 11 active gun turrets and has been proven to activate all gun turrets on privateers, my assumption at this point is that it allows all 19 gun turrets to be fired at the same time. This will kill any mothership out there even if sending a full crew of 50 people on repairs with rk-20.
Thought as mentioned by Alaina below, security in space doesnt come from repairs or structural integrity alone, it comes from a strong offence that adds to it.

Disconnects are something that needs to be looked after as i think they happen much to often still, specifically when jumping (warping) between servers often, however there is usually enough time to log back into the game after a disconnect within the duration of one warp jump and still be fully operational when the ship arrives as the main cause of disconnects is the server switch itself, so if a ship would get pulled by a warp mine that still recides on the same server there wouldnt be a cause of increased disconnectivity in the first place.
Any mine pulling a ship after a server jump still gives its crew enough time to reconnect - thought i agree its something were having backup pilots in place adds an additional layer of safety and should always be considered to have avaiable for best and fastest performance.


I personally dont think that space got any more viable with more people active over the last 3 years, considering just how active it was in its first half year uppon release were many many people came to check it out and be a part of it. Then warp capabilty was added to the universe and other systems didnt get improved further and more and more people started 'skipping' space and traveling logged out of game instead as well as loosing interest in gaming in space because of its lack of content that would allow progression.

The increased activity or the perception of more spacecrafts being active then before is mainly a growing number of people who keep handing over spacecraft ownerships to the next 'optimistic' space generation who will hold onto it for some time until passing it again.

Historic Overview on mothership ownerships:
1 - Bismark - Sam Diafelx Sara -> Milela Sakuma Wilnfe
2 - Saratoga - Darth Skippie Boobie -> Rudolph the reindeer -> George Ace Skywalker
3 - Yamato - Max Extreme Hunter -> Eugenio Anhithe Wilde
4 - Fortune - Zachurm Deathifier Emegen
5 - MacReady - John MacReady on behalf of Narfi Hungry Willem - formerly known as Revenge owned by Jon NEVERDIE Jacobs
6 - Victory - Miss Hoff Bad
7 - Thule - Atami Tami Atemi -> Sara Chibi Taylor
8 - Ticonderoga - Oracle Kev FountofWisdom / Hooligan on behalf of BlackAngels Consortium
9 - Kronan - Sbinortz Sbi Latz' tek -> Granny Rowan Render
10 - Krusenstern - Modified Akoz Power -> Melissa Xristine -> Orion
11 - Enterprise - Zek z3kdark3r Darker
12 - Alabama - Augis Auktuma Tumas -> Strash (SoF)
13 - Normandie - John Black Knight
14 - Varyag - donvoon crazyhunter batranu -> danotti magic pandora -> Qetesh Sidney Beautician -> currently for sale
15 - Gagarin - George Ace Skywalker -> Hannibal -> currently for sale
16 - Dreadnought - geats platzgummer -> Giuliano adm Noooo -> Taxi Goblin Goldy -> currently for sale
17 - Ark Royal - Mrs SinofMen Quayjay on behalf of Patriots investor group -> John Black Knight

For privateers the continuous switch of ownerships is similar, but that list will someone else have to keep accurate

this can become a intresting topic

Sakuba said:

One of the most important issies that I percieve is the constant disconnection Partivipants undergo. Most often this occurs when Ships are Warping. This is a major issue as when you see your crew disappearing you know you have lost half your defence and offence when you have completed the warp.

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Sakuba said:

Even the Pilots are often disconnected. When this happens not only can the Pilot NOT log back in until the Warp is completed, the Pilots Seat remains occupied until long after the warp is completed. This results in no one being able to take control of the Shihp for extended amounts of time, creating a long period of time that the ship is NOT CONTROLLED and VULNERABLE.

Click to expand...

This if course can be a percieved issue, however when appearing at the other end of a warp mine there is usually a window of around 30 seconds or so before a full battle is engaged, so as long as those who dc'd get back in asap, then all would be well.

However I completely agree that some more stability would be fab, isn't a huge concern of mine though.

Heck I've managed get pinged the " mine" message in skype - get out of bed, boot up the pc, and log in EU still in time to engage

Sakuba said:

Of course I am sure we will have the SI Mongers scream "Build your SI up to "XYZ

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Sakuba said:

Firstly, Ships like my own, will need to look at some serious upgrades on thier SI, Even those with the much higher SI may have to consider some serious upgrades as well.

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I am lost a wee bit on your contradictions there, at first I thought you were doing the whole stuck record thing on the " no one needs SI" but now seeing how your post developed I wish you much sucess in your upgrades and enjoy the extra skills if you go hunting

Sakuba said:

We have estimated that with the new "Armament Devices" five(5) Mothership Guns in unision can do around 1000 points of damage to the SI of a ship per shot. For your Repair Crew to balance th8is damage you would need ten(10) RK-20s per repair point. Include those who just got DCed and you had better count on Twenty(20). If my calculations on this is correct start looking ofr a Crew of Eighty(80) RK-20s to cover all four(4) Repair Points on a MS.

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Never forget that the best defence can often been a strong offence. If you have a whole team of gunners who also have access to the 10+ guns then the tables become more even. Reparing alone is never the best answer - in my humble opinion

Sakuba said:

Secondly, now that MindArk have increased the Fire Power abilities of Ships they should look at improving the Repair Abilities of Repair Crews and the Tools they are using.

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Always remember the whole picture, its not just your repair crew who have to be strong, but your gunners and pilots too. A good gunner hits for well more than 200 on average. but I agree, I want that rk50!!!

Sakuba said:

"Shield Device" Using power provided by the "Ships Power Scource"

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The sheilds device idea has been around for years. ( in varying forms) I can link you to the suggestions threads where it has been mentioned if you so wish

Picking up on the comment about high cost to individuals, that's not necessarily the case.

Sure, there are expensive activities (gunning on a mother ship costs an arm and a leg). However, an RK-5 and the welding wire to use it will cost, with mark up, 20 peds in the 3 hours 20 minutes it takes to break it. That's 2 usd or 60 cents an hour - less than the 1.5 usd MA supposedly want us all to spend. Sure, there's no loot coming back but you do get skills instead.

Space needs its own development team. Until MA employ such a team, we will just see random space mobs and the odd new moon. A fully deveoped space would make this game even greater, allow ships to land on planets, allow players to own jump gates, space mining, non-PvP zones, xyz coordinate route planning, modifiable ships, hangars that work. The list goes on....

No, space is not alive and vibrant with a lot of action. It has less action than when space opened, in spite of everyone owning a quad now, when back then only about 5-10% owned a quad. It was, in my opinion, a lot more fun before motherships were active and before space was expanded. And why did they replace the old space station design which had a lot of character, with the sterile and boring new one?

I've been thinking about EU space a lot the last few days. If you've played a good space combat or exploration game, EU space is cludgy, empty and way behind the times. It's been hashed out hundreds of times on the forums why space is not "fun" but I'll repeat them here once again.

1) cost to shoot is too high
2) all is lootable PVP
3) quads maneuver like snails through molasses
4) there is only one model of fighter (quad)
5) there is actually nothing to keep people's interest in space except travel from one planet to another (not much reason to hunt space mobs these days and mothership repairing is not "fun"... it's about as fun as sweating)

In order to make space "alive" and actually fun to play, I think the following fundamental changes should happen:

Space mechanics
- reduce cost of ammo in PVP settings to ~1:50 or 1:100 of what it normally is (ofc leave it as 1:1 when targeting mobs). People do not spend 10 ped to get 25 shots in space, but they will do dogfights for an hour for 10 ped if it gives them 1000 shots and if it is good play (see next point)
- increase the base maneuverability and speed of quads 2-3x what it currently is
- improve navigation and combat HUD, including space physics
If they have not played modern space shooter games, I point the devs to the way combat in Star Conflict works, I think the basic HUD and control elements there would work well for EU space. If you're not an MA employee, I don't recommend you play that game because it would be against the rules of this forum for me to tell you to play it.
Stackables
- when entering space from a planet, you always spawn inside the station, not in space
- each space station has its own free, permanent storage facilities
- quad and sleipnir fuel capacity is very limited so they will have to make frequent visits to stations to refuel (increasing visitors at each station=good)
- stackables can be taken off the station only if they are in your vehicle storage (if flying out by quad)
Vehicle storage capacities will need to be adjusted for this to work.
- Safety containers
Special safety (L) homing containers purchased at the stations or onboard MS will prevent your stackables from being looted in case of ship destruction. So you buy the model that fits into your vehicle storage and you put your stackables inside it. The mothership allows you to carry a special mothership storage container which keeps your stackables safe (its' ~10x the size of a quad storage). If you are on a mothership and you don't put all your stackables inside the safety container before undocking, they may be looted. This effectively limits the amount of stackables you can safely carry (to provide some separation of economies between planets) and provides balance between the different types of ships. When your ship is blown up, your containers return to the nearest station and can be picked up there (after loss of 1 ped TT value).

At all points where you might have unprotected loot, you would get a warning notice with the opportunity to return to station storage or TT where you could buy a container. Players entering space for the first time would receive a free safety container good for a couple uses and a mission guiding them through the process of using it with real stackables.

Space hunting loot is automatically put into your quad/mothership storage until it is full (in case of big loots, you're allowed to be protected overweight once but after that you have to return to station to store it or visit the MS trade terminal to sell it/trade with a buddy on board the MS who has space in their container).

Where's all the looting? you ask. Short answer: there shouldn't be any looting unless someone wants to gamble on unsafe transport (not a smart idea).
- instead of pirates being motivated by players' loot, they're motivated to shoot other players because of pirate mission rewards; space "knights" are motivated by space "knight" mission rewards. Rewards can include equipment upgrades/modules such as engines, guns, shields, armor, space suits, ships, afterburners, ECM, flares, missile launchers, vehicle storage and fuel tank capacity. Remember ammo in space is cheap, so people are able to grind away at space PVP for these rewards without spending a fortune. Space PVP should be done mainly because it's fun, keep that in mind. Take steps to prevent pirates from just taking turns shooting each other down to exploit the mission rewards. I envision two mission branches, pirate or knight (you have to choose one) and you start at level 1 and progress up thru the ranks which become more difficult but which have better rewards as you go (it's not just kill 10 pirate, kill 100 pirates, kill 1000 pirates, that's unimaginative).

I don't think I've spent more than 10 ped on ammo in space PVP within the last year because it's too expensive and there is no motivation. However, if ammo cost was much lower and there were appropriate missions, I would have spent much much more.

These changes might sound strange, but I believe they will allow for a more appropriate level of separation between planet economies, let a lot more people have fun shooting at each other while at the same time preventing players from becoming furious at MA because they forgot to scroll down their inventory before launching.

I didn't even mention space mining and alien ship instances, and there are many other great ideas to make space more attractive. The gaming community wants space games right now and it would be a great chance for MA to grow the playerbase.

Few Scars said:

Space needs its own development team. Until MA employ such a team, we will just see random space mobs and the odd new moon. A fully deveoped space would make this game even greater, allow ships to land on planets, allow players to own jump gates, space mining, non-PvP zones, xyz coordinate route planning, modifiable ships, hangars that work. The list goes on....

Click to expand...

I second an own development team for space, i think it is one of the major reasons why things are moving on so slowly that most likely any of the developers employed has priorities given that reside above space and as long as there is no one person totally committed to make space great and manage the ressources needed for that it will keep being slow progress with one piece at a time.

John B Knight said:

I second an own development team for space, i think it is one of the major reasons why things are moving on so slowly that most likely any of the developers employed has priorities given that reside above space and as long as there is no one person totally committed to make space great and manage the ressources needed for that it will keep being slow progress with one piece at a time.

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I'm not 100% sure, but I think that space is pretty much done by outsourced power, AMC Pixel Factory. To be honest, if you gave MindArk more money, I don't see the problem here... Money is the motivator, and as motherships went fairly cheap at the end, why would they develop a system what doesn't really make money for them. And if they made big changes to space which would require players invest more, people would blame Mindark for being greedy, just my 2 pecs.

Pyhä Antero said:

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that space is pretty much done by outsourced power, AMC Pixel Factory. .

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I have no idea whether space is outsourced or not, but tbh that is not the issue here. Far more is the lack of progress, slow or no resolution of reported issues (not bug fixes - they do usually see to those eventually), and an apparent lack of vision from MA for the future of space as a viable and vibrant (ped earning) part of the game.

Pyhä Antero said:

To be honest, if you gave MindArk more money, I don't see the problem here... Money is the motivator, and as motherships went fairly cheap at the end, why would they develop a system what doesn't really make money for them. And if they made big changes to space which would require players invest more, people would blame Mindark for being greedy, just my 2 pecs.

Click to expand...

But let me try and answer several points raised here.. ( in this please read the word Mothership to refer to all classes of ship larger than a quad)

1. The price that MA originally sold motherships may or may not have been an error on their part. But I think you will find that few if any of the active motherships are still in original hands.. prices have since those early days, have risen steeply and if you trawl the forums I think you will see the current owners made significant investments. They likely bought direct rather than pay the MA auction fee, yet these ped still had to be brought into game, and are likely still being recycled in game. So yes they have contributed to MA.

2. Few motherships now have their original SI (structural integrity), this has meant investment on the part of the various owners...which was yet again ped into MA's coffers.

3. Many Mothership owners are also service providers, giving an inexpensive, and hopefully safe option for space travel/trade, both as a regular or on demand service . Without these services (which contrary to common belief are not making their owners a huge profit) interplanetary trade would be severely restricted and planetary economies could be badly damaged. Our passengers do not just take everything to Caly to sell ( another EU myth) and moving large quantities of stackable goods in a quad is not a solution... 2 main issues being time (a valuable commodity) and pirates.

4. Much of the money earned by the owners is recycled directly to MA, as they purchase warp drives or warp drive components, fuel, advertising.

5. Perhaps the most important point of all.... space is not just about motherships.. it is a huge gaming area that is quite honestly mostly empty.. a true void. Pilots using sub-warp get clear of the high risk area close to the SS, set their waypoint, hit auto and go afk. They are not playing the game, they are not spending ped (other than fuel), they may well even be playing a competitors game.

Why are mobs spread so thin ?
Why are mobs largely restricted to training grounds ? Why not a few strays to make travels at sub-warp speed more interesting ?
Why are those bigger boulders in space not able to damage a ship ?
Why do we not have proper flight dynamics? Better space battles for quads, and others. this would be pure profit for MA
Why do we not have space mining ?
A trade hub on a central space station... think DS9 !!

If we had a reason to stay active at our keyboards in space, to avoid damage, go to trade hub, do incidental hunting, it could be a whole load more fun, and players having fun=money.

If MA can offer us something to make us want to use space more, to actually see it as a part of the game, rather than the time-wasting gap between portions of the game, then the ped will flow, and money for further development will naturally occur.

But in any business it is for the company to invest.. not it's customers.
If a shop opens in your street you do not expect them to ask local householders to invest so they can buy stock. If it underprices something it cannot then expect those purchasers to come back and pay again just so they can refurbish the shop. It makes money selling the goods, it re-invests that money to improve the stock held or to get better premises.
MA needs to fill some of the empty shelves in space before the notice on the front door reads 'closed'

I started a thread a while back where I suggested some ideas for an extended space.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?256264-Three-Ideas&p=3201242#post3201242

In short, I wrote:

Expand Space.

Keep the planets in their relative positions (and keep travel times between them the same), but expand space well beyond them. Make the current space merely the centre of the known universe. If you want me to quantify how big it should be, I'd say fifty times the current size minimum. The purpose is the ability to explore the universe, to find new items, to allow different people to have control of parts of space, to have more to space than just fighting pirates, carrying passengers and the like. Maybe have remote space rocks that can be mined by large vessels and small vessels alike.

And to expand further, what would go into this expanded space?

Mini-asteroids that could be mined. They would have to be found (promotes exploration) and there is a good chance of getting the dreaded NRF. Once a pilot finds a mini-asteroid it is always going to be there, and will give a certain type of resource when mining is successful.

Space mobs, as in the current universe, but with space area (like land area) rights. A space owner can initially claim a space area by completing tasks within an area. This task might be to simply find the area, or even to fly within close proximity of all eight boundary markers (think a 3D cube). Alternatively, maybe the first to a thousand kills in the area or the first person to mine a certain resource within the area.


Abandoned Alien Craft. These could be explored, they may have common resources in their cargo holds. They may also have Alien Technology that is fragmented and needs to be assembled. Such craft and technology would purposely be rare. To assemble such tech, the parts would have to have matching pictograms on them, and it would require four or five parts per device. Such a device could give a speed boost to a vessel, be a special weapon or evasion device, or have a function on the planets (heal tool, super-armour, etc).

Not terribly convinced MA cares, but as a noob very intereested in space

*subscribing*


love the ideas

to me space; or atleast that little bit of space between calypso space station and FOMA is death and full of mono sided action from pirates shooting me. Although I never got the idea why you would shoot someone that just goes mining instead of shooting them if they return (okay, yeah, we use the tp).

Space to me and probably many people is that inconvenient barrier between the content of two planet partners. Someone had the great idea of making that place a lootable zone. And that is about it.

In regards to all of this:

It seems MA did not intend to have anyone stay in space for extended periods of time - but there are players who live in space now.

I think MA's thought was that people would go from planet A to planet B and back again, but spend their time and PED on terra firma.

In my opinion, more thought is needed from a "how the game is intended to be played" perspective. MA has not developed space enough for those who want to play war in space, and it is overkill for those of us who just want to get from planet A to planet B without losing our life's savings.

The worst part about this is that so many people have already invested so much money into space, and any speculation on the subject is just that. All changes MA brings will most likely be met with an avalanche of complaints, because everyone sees the perfect space from their own view.

Sometimes player input is truly needed and should be asked for. Even RuneScape had polls for crimany's sake.

Economy effects

I just have to add. I think adding shields is a wonderful idea, especially with the new firepower of armament III.

However, I really hope for one thing. Please please please add decay to the shield devices! Heck, add it to all the major spaceship components. It makes no sense that warp drives would be the only component that wears out. I think this would really help the manufacturing community, and even bring more action to space where some of the important components can be acquired for those devices.

Someone was complaining about high ammo costs earlier, lower the ammo burn and put some of that into decay on the armament device. heck armament III has 1400 TT value. put 5 PED decay on that and lower ammo burn to 5k. That'd be 280 shots per device (56,000 damage dealt) .... and just imagine! ships have to change out armament devices in the middle of combat! so glorious. (note: maybe with MU 5 PED is a bit high, but you get the idea)

An important note here: Right now damage scales linearly with cost. Cost should rise much faster than damage rate. (ie: armament I would be very cheap and II would be cheaper, but still get the job done most of the time)

I strongly disagree with the suggestion of "safe zones" in space or "safe containers" on warp ships. I understand MA's position that space travel must be risky. In that light, I've even come to view pirates as necessary to the entropian ecosystem. (I don't like pirates or maggots, but they are both necessary to their respective ecologies)

Without risk in space travel, MUs would flatten across all planets, and the economy would become even more centralized on Calypso.

I would like the logout feature on spacecraft to be disabled. However, only if the "safe-mode super-speed quad" exploit(feature?) is addressed as well.

I think space has the potential to be the best part of EU, with full-scale wars the likes of which we only see at LG. We've already had MSvMS battles, it's only a matter of time before a combat-oriented MS/Privateer fleet is formed.

I've heard that space mining is in the works (but I've heard that Planet Micheal is in the works). I would like to see a reason for more entropians to spend time and PEDs in space other than robbing other players.

I suggest the addition of NPCs (or MA avatars a-la RX unit) to randomly warp around, carrying loots and blasting the bejeezus out of anyone who gets close. They could patrol around in the areas where few avatars go (Howling Mines, etc...)and collect the goods they loot on the avatar, to provide a nice payday for groups of players who feel like a PvP challenge.

TL;DR Space needs to remain lootable PvP and any means of providing "risk-free transport" would be counterproductive. Addition of features and content would make Space a more desirable place to stay.

Economy of space

I have to say, shields are a great idea. However, please make them (L) decay!! It's just silly that warp drives are the only spaceship device which decays.

I'd even go further. Someone was talking about lowering ammo costs. Instead I'd suggest instituting decay on armament devices. For instance, armament III has 1400 TT. You could split 10 PED cost per shot to 5 PED decay and 5 PED ammo. This would yield 280 shots (>56,000 damage) and just imagine being forced to change out armament devices during combat! How glorious. (5 PED could be a bit high given MU, but that's the idea)

It may seem a bit more difficult to acquire devices etc than directly purchase TT ammo, but buying devices will help invigorate the overall player economy (and even raise the need for parts that may come mostly from space). By contrast, TT ammo goes strait to MA coffers.

Another benefit: Right now DPP remains constant regardless of damage rate. I'd suggest that for armament devices, DPP should go down as overall damage rate goes up. Armament I could be very cheap. armament II could be a bit more expensive and good enough to do the job most of the time. Armament III would be a PED burner, and the unstoppable force.

What's holding it up is probably due to them still owning Calypso, at this point in time they'd planned only being the platform provider. It's also that they'll be in direct competition with their own client PP's if they were add more content.

If they sell Calypso then they might be able to put some effort into space.

As for the mu tankng, how is anyone supposed to find out the my for an individual planet on the auction if the pvp ends. The currently listed ones are calculated universe wide.

It is possible that there are a number of different things slowing the developement of "Space".

Perhps there is a conflict of interests with MindArk controlling both Spac and Calypso. I would like to think this is not the case. I strongly believe that our Player Base is a major contributor to its rate of developement. All "Warp Capable Ships" require a good number of Crew to man them efficiently. With the number of Ships and Planets we currently have our Player Base is quite spread out.

Another major issue is most likely getting the bugs ironed out and getting it right. This will take a lot of testing and retestingh no doubt. I am confident that given time and patience MindArks Developement Team will do so. I am inclined to think that Space is meant to be a major part of the future of EU. Why else would ships be required to need such large numbers of Crew?

Overall I think that Space is developing, albeit slowley. It would be great to see it grow at a much faster rate, but it may have to grow at a balanced rate that reflects our Player Base Growth and the growth rate of Space Usage.

bobbyjoe said:

For instance, armament III has 1400 TT. You could split 10 PED cost per shot to 5 PED decay and 5 PED ammo. This would yield 280 shots (>56,000 damage) and just imagine being forced to change out armament devices during combat! How glorious. (5 PED could be a bit high given MU, but that's the idea)

Click to expand...

I guess one reason why other devices dont decay yet is that mindark still needs to figure out the proper rate of decay and the incentive they can give to spacecraft owners to make all this decay worthwhile.
Looking at your example of 280 shots, i think you woudnt find many spacecraft owners who would pay 1400ped+ for armament device which is completely decayed after 40 seconds of combat, because 19 gun turrets in simultaneous usage will get these shots fired quickly.
Putting decay on the armament devices nearly requires the development and implementation of a tax rate for mobs hunted with spacecraft guns, to return some money to spacecraft owners to fund the aquisition of the next armament device. If someone makes use of this is a different topic, but there shoudnt be just more costs without an option to split them.
Besides as long as logged out stackable transport is possible, it would be counter productive putting higher costs on those who play by the rules and keep the operation of spacecrafts cheap for those who skip parts of the system.

devices that decay....then every owner of a ship that needs these devices to operate should be given a unlimited bp of each device needed for the ship.
these bp's should be stuck to the ships deed so atleast every owner can alway's craft the items that are needed to use the ship.

bp level 1 of each different device.

or the devices should allway's be possible to buy at a trade terminal.
the level 1 devices at the least

otherwise this would be a real life fraud/scam.
but i'm sure a lawyer could tell me if i'm right or wrong here ?
i will feel most certainly being scammed in the above scenario if there will indeed be a possible chance that i or we won't be able to opperate our ship's

best regards , a concerned device needed ship owner Q


oh and yes on this part i do give a f***

Revisited Economy of Space

John B Knight said:

Looking at your example of 280 shots, i think you woudnt find many spacecraft owners who would pay 1400ped+ for armament device which is completely decayed after 40 seconds of combat, because 19 gun turrets in simultaneous usage will get these shots fired quickly.

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True 11 guns will burn 280 shots in around 25 seconds? That might be very brief, but consider the likely target of such a barrage who just lost 56,000 SI. I'm sure they'd love a 5 second reload reprieve.

As to cost, I mentioned stealing half the ammo cost to be converted to decay. In my haste to post I added a zero to the cost of a single mothership shot making it 10 PED. It should initially have been .5 PED ammo and .5 PED decay. (which would be 2800 shots and 560,000 SI damage) actually, making device reload less likely in a single encounter.

I'm not exactly sure what a cost-multiplier vs armament I should be, 10x way to high, even 3x probably too high... probably 2.25x (1.5 per lvl, and remember extra PED are going to crafters not TT)

Besides as long as logged out stackable transport is possible, it would be counter productive putting higher costs on those who play by the rules and keep the operation of spacecrafts cheap for those who skip parts of the system.

Click to expand...

As to logout and rules, I'm not sure I follow. At 25 seconds (11 guns) 56k SI damage... I think a few "cheaters" will get caught out as well. (but they'll likely lose more than a calculated armed response costs)

Here are the keys to your new car, only 1 tank of gas included

Sidney said:

devices that decay....then every owner of a ship that needs these devices to operate should be given a unlimited bp of each device needed for the ship.

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Which is why quad and sleipnir owners each automatically receive this for thrusters.

Which is why MS and privateer owners receive this for warp drives.

If an in-game item is (L) and heavily used. It should, at some point, wear out. This is the basis of a thriving economy.

It may even increase your profits as your prices will be going up for a very justifiable reason. For one thing, I find it very odd that passenger and cargo prices in space are exactly the same when cargo is the only thing in any danger in lootable PvP.

Sidney said:

devices that decay....then every owner of a ship that needs these devices to operate should be given a unlimited bp of each device needed for the ship.
these bp's should be stuck to the ships deed so atleast every owner can alway's craft the items that are needed to use the ship.

bp level 1 of each different device.

or the devices should allway's be possible to buy at a trade terminal.
the level 1 devices at the least

otherwise this would be a real life fraud/scam.
but i'm sure a lawyer could tell me if i'm right or wrong here ?
i will feel most certainly being scammed in the above scenario if there will indeed be a possible chance that i or we won't be able to opperate our ship's

best regards , a concerned device needed ship owner Q


oh and yes on this part i do give a f***

Click to expand...

I'm not sure how decaying devices would be a scam, but I do see it making space hunting/combat prohibitively expensive for larger ships. Say you have a ship with the 4 basic devices plus armament II and III. That's 6 items that would decay while using the spaceship. Add to that the cost of ammo (which is already high) and you have one expensive activity indeed. It would also force warp taxi services to increase their fares, which I think we can all agree would be in no one's best interest. (I have recently discovered that you ONLY need Armament III to be fully armed, so only 4 decaying devices)

As to the blueprints being made available to spacecraft owners, I think this is an even worse idea than safe travel corridors in space. The whole point of needing these devices is that you require a crafter with the bp and decent skills to make them (just like everything else). Giving the blueprints away for free to spacecraft owners would deny others the opportunity to profit by crafting and selling these devices by giving an advantage to the shipowner. They may as well, at that point, just get rid of the devices altogether, just handwave in "all spacecrafts have these devices as part of the ship now", and make the ship itself incur decay that you have to pay peds to repair (probably impossible with an estate/item like a privateer/MS).

How space could be improved.. Reprised ..

To answer the question for the original Poster , I have this to state about Space..

Is Space Alive and well? The answer might surprise you..

Yes... and No...

Let me explain both parts..

In regards to space, It really isn't as alive as it was when it opened up. and here's a good reason..

It's because players who are pirates camp at the stations thinking that they can attack a victim.. The usual space battle at this point takes just 180 seconds to complete .. and that 98.9 % of space is Lootable PVP..

Now how could this be better? Well if you and anyone else would go back to the articles I wrote, located here, here, here, here and here, , Space could be so much improved.

Take for example the issue of the space stations and the safe zones.. Why not just expand the safe zone to encompass the planet out to a set distance (with the Space station at the edge of this safe zone? Sure the Pirates could camp there but let's then add in the multiplex Exit points (part 1)

Now instead of having to "Camp" the station the pirates would actually have to actually hunt their victims down, to find them and kill them.. and by having servers all teh way around each planet the players could come and leave as they please instead of being "Bottlenecked" at a simgle spawn point..
(Even a factor of randomization could be used..

A revamp ore new ships could be introduced that are more maneuverable than the old ones, and new weapon points could be added to the existing vehicles (Including Rocket pots, and guided missile rails). This also would help genreate a new class of crafter, the missle and Deocy crafter.. Missiles would be using Explosive projectiles to craft their main ingredient, and decoys or anti-missile systems would be actually be created by using Decoys you can purcase from the TT..By doing this simple thing, Players would still get the old skills of Craftin but they could improve their Mounted Grenadier and Decoy Dispenser skills by the incorporation of these systems..

In terms of Radar being on or off, I would say leave it off, but turn off the radar around the Space station..Or, the radar could be turned on all over space, and thus pilots could see other ships and thus Pirates would not be able to actually hide at the staitons, (They'd have to go out and camp.. at the sptations out in thee Neutral areas of space..

and this brings up the issue of Navigational hazards... Asteroids, and yes even Nebulas could be incorporated and these could be "Radar" off areas.. thus allowing both smugglers the advantage of sneaking goods through, while Pirates could camp there waiting for some unsuspecting victim to be caught unawre...

and finally space mobs, Let's be honest, Space Mobs should not be just citting in certain areas but could be scattered across the board, and thus the real fun could begin.. You're being chased by a pirate and you duck into a nebula, but unknown to you a space mob has inadvertently been dragged into that area and next thing you know, instead of facing a pirae, you got a pirrate and an angry mob to deal with (I would still recommend that the areas around the stations would be still safe zones that would allow the players to Drown the mobs per se)

IN closing, I really think and suggest to the players they go look at those links I provided in this post and to actually comment on them.. Give suggestions and feedback here. and in fact if you want, I can provide a better space mp than what is currently offered for space..

It's really the players who have the say here, not MA, and in the end, if MA wants to make money they should actually consider looking at these articles too..

Thank you for your time,

Benjamin Ben Coyote
A.K.A. "The Blind Sniper"

IN shor

RE: How space could be improved.. Reprised ..

@BenCoyote

A lot of your ideas seem pretty good, more variety in ships would be a lot of fun for example. However, I don't see how anything is broken with current small ship transport up/down from planets.

It's thruster decay to launch and 100% safe. It costs 2 PED to fly into planetary atmosphere which for me (who does this a lot) is prohibitively expensive. It's actually quite a slap in the face to thruster crafters who only get .10 PED (or maybe .16 with MU). But this is nothing to do with the shape or rules of the safe bubble or planet. To get down from the station 100% safely with no fear of pirate interference costs 7 PED. (roughly 5 PED extra).

Pirates will usually only shoot a ship down once since they spend more shooting then your cost to repair. So, if you're carrying loot or you are in a really big hurry. Spending an extra 5 PED will ensure you won't have to deal with them. Otherwise, if you're "empty" you can fly down, cost them some PED and give back a little to the Sleipnir or Quad crafters in decay.

If you have a small amount of loot, store it up in a safe place (FOMA, Crystal Palace, Monria) until it's a LOT of loot, then beam it down when you need it. (If you flew in from deep space, use FOMA and CP, not caly station, if you're on a capital ship, ask them to stop off where you can store things safely)

Now, I'm not saying anything about station to station movement here, that's a whole other discussion.