Swedish Gambling Authority aka Loteriinspektionen

Since the info, which all players should have acces to - was deleted by mods - supposedly because it was posted off topic somewhere - therefore - it gets its own topic.

Questions that were sent to the Loteriinspektionen;

1. Is this game legitimate or can I be in danger of losing my investment due to the game being a "casino" of sorts?

2. Has there ever been an investigation of said game / company?

3. Is my money safe within their product?

Answers from Loteriinspektionen;

1. The first question was if Entropia Universe can be seen as a lottery open for anyone to participate. The initial answer to that question is, yes, anyone can join the arrangement Entropia Universe by buying PED (project entropia dollar) and equipment and begin gambling. But, to be able to advance in the game, and to be able to get to different levels, the participant needs a certain level of personal skill to continue to play the game. Can the arrangement still be considered available to anyone or is personal skills what is necessary to reach a new level? The conclusion was that probably at least some kind of personal skill is necessary to reach to higher levels in the game. The Swedish Gambling authority came to the conclusion that only the initial levels seemed to be open to each and every one to participate, to get to the higher level, it is necessary with personal skills in the game
TL;DR - only starting levels are considered as "casino" or "lottery"

2. In order to fully investigate the whole design of Entropia Universe, it would have been necessary to study the whole design and technical background of Entropia Universe. The Swedish Gambling Authority does not have any legal opportunities to enforce such a request against MindArk or Entropia Universe, The Swedish Police Authority or The Swedish Prosecution Authority has the legal right to make such a request against a company during criminal investigations.
TL;DR - No, no full investigations (inspection of the code or system design (loot return system goes here, yes) were ever done to MA by loteriinspektionen, they dont have the right (only police/prosecution)

3.We do not leave any suggestions, recommendations or guarantees regarding financial investments. That is outside our area of operation.


Regards, The Prophet

So how is that discussion about EU?
I see this as a discussion about Loteriinspektionen. You seem to want them to name EU lottery/gambling and close it down?
Maybe start public campaign how EU ruined your life and you had steal from relatives to fund your addiction, maybe they´ll listen then.


It just amazes me to see ppl working against MA so hard. If you dont like it, dont play it.

Actually your "TLR" version of reply number 2 is not what she answered. There has indeed been done audits by Lotteriinspektionen towards MA in the past. The audit resulted in PED and PEC being removed from the loot and replaced with ammo. So saying that there has never been done audits is incorrect.

The way you worded question 1 makes me worry about you. You make it seem like its legitimacy is based on its safety of your investment, as if this game was some kind of money market or savings bond that's bought from a bank.

The game can be a legitimate game, but you can also be in danger of losing any deposits you place due to your own bad choices.

The key to answer the question if EU is a Lottery or not is to first answer the question what a lottery is.

There are of cause legal definitions for Lotteries. But all legal questions boil down to a more or less phylosophical question. Since there are so many and different laws in all countries, lets have a look at a more basic standpoint.

a) If you cross a street, you look right and left and watch the traffic light, you are more or less safely crossing a street.
b) If you close you eyes and just start walking on the street, you are gambling with your life.

The difference is that at a) you take sensefull information and precautions to prevent loosing your life. At b) your are just doing a potental high risky action.

In EU, you can do both.
a) You can click Explosives on condition and TT the result. That is simply gambling.
b)You can click explosives to manufacture explosives and residue for the market and earn some money. To do so sucsessfully, you have to analyse the market and the results of your crafting.

Anyone with a healthy mind will know, that at the moment, it does not make sence to craft explosives!

This means that you can gamble as much as you like in EU as you can in RL. Not to gamble in EU requires personal (Real life) and inGame skills. I would say that even a starter avatar does not have to and should not gamble in EU. In real life we have parents as kids to show us, in EU you should get a good mentor. EU is more than mindless clicking on Explosives!

And yes, same with huntig, mining ect. Mining is mostly dead due to low MU, if you go hunting you need to go for MU drops such as Output Amps.
If you "just wanna have some fun" in EU and you don´t like thinking about what you do, well, don´t cry if you loose money. You don´t get your PED back from MA, you get i back from those who use EU for recreation,fun, gambling...

In EU you can Play, Gamble, Work, Invest, Explore, Socialize... its up to you.

e-lite said:

Actually your "TLR" version of reply number 2 is not what she answered. There has indeed been done audits by Lotteriinspektionen towards MA in the past. The audit resulted in PED and PEC being removed from the loot and replaced with ammo. So saying that there has never been done audits is incorrect.

Click to expand...

Here since 2005, so much intel on the game and about the running company, so much vigor in defending them, yet;

http://www.entropialife.com/Profile.aspx?P=115972

Do you even play, brah?

the_prophet said:

Here since 2005, so much intel on the game and about the running company, so much vigor in defending them, yet;

http://www.entropialife.com/Profile.aspx?P=115972

Do you even play, brah?

Click to expand...

If you want, I can teach you how the tracker works also?

...so basicaly we need some swede to inform police it was scamed or something in loterry way, and then during investigation police may oblige Loteriinspektionen to perform full MA check.

e-lite said:

If you want, I can teach you how the tracker works also?

Click to expand...

Actually the tracker isn't working.

Just lol, reading others replies I can only guess what he is up to again.

As i said in another post, you said you were going to sell out and leave. Please, please do so!


Rgds

Ace

Ace Flyster said:

Just lol, reading others replies I can only guess what he is up to again.

As i said in another post, you said you were going to sell out and leave. Please, please do so!


Rgds

Ace

Click to expand...

.

Ace Flyster said:

Just lol, reading others replies I can only guess what he is up to again.

As i said in another post, you said you were going to sell out and leave. Please, please do so!


Rgds

Ace

Click to expand...

He seems to be that type who, while drowning, pulls others with him so he don't die alone...

shoti said:

...so basicaly we need some swede to inform police it was scamed or something in loterry way, and then during investigation police may oblige Loteriinspektionen to perform full MA check.

Click to expand...

Right, and to risk losing everything just to prove a point. Unless you already have withdrawn everything, but then it's a petty vengeance, more upon your ex-fellow players than MA - "Still enjoying this game, fuckers? Here, eat this"

they sure need check explosive bp and how ppl gamble with it

If you threat the game as a casino it will act like a casino.
No one is forced to play the game as a casino.


100 clicks on higest explosive bp with no skills is like a casino.

long period of hunt with high skills is not like a casino.

Lovely Bella said:

they sure need check explosive bp and how ppl gamble with it

Click to expand...

Just because people missuse the Explosive BPs does not mean they are made for gamble. They are there so you can make quickly some Explosive Ammo. Yes, MA will know that people use it to gamble, but its totaly up to them to do so.

@OP

Why dont you do everyone a favor and leave both the game and the forum. That way you will stop polluting the database with your bits of missinformation and conspiracy theories.

I have this feeling in the back of my head that you are just trolling us, nobody can be this stupid.

You have been trying so hard, for so long...

I also dont understand how some people get banned for a small verbal PK fight, and this puppet is still around.

Sincerely, me.

How about posting any reports which you may have access to, if indeed there are any and that way we can all take an informed view. Hype and hyperbole get us nowhere !

It was the same with mf chips a while back , who would hunt with them at 125% mu for the ammo ? They created a replacement so you can buy it from tt wich i think its more affordable so people can actualy skill mf .
The explosive projectiles werent so expensive in the past but these bp can offer nice skilling with not so much mu mby for beginers , an idea would be to create more weapons that use exp ammo , also to can add an extra ingredient to bp 3 and 4 so they would use more resources those can be like imp ammo that add extra bonus to the weapon.
There are alot of ideas out there that can be implemented , most of them i would like to see in game.(just a side note adding a swing couter for blades would be nice , just saying )

Xpl0jd said:

If you threat the game as a casino it will act like a casino.
No one is forced to play the game as a casino.


100 clicks on higest explosive bp with no skills is like a casino.

long period of hunt with high skills is not like a casino.

Click to expand...

Agree 100%

In the autumn of 2008 Lotteriinspektionen did try EU out, and they found that
"the general character" of EU isn't gambling.
They also came to the conclusion that EU is a quite advanced game, and they
didn't have the chance to try all aspects of the game.
There might be features that could be seen as lottery, and if they get enough of
tips about it, they might reopen the investigation.

When looking at rules and laws, it's the impression that is the most important part,
not the actuall code.

From their site:
What is the difference between a competition and a raffle?

Vad är skillnaden mellan en tävling och ett lotteri?


Det kan ibland vara svårt att avgöra om ett arrangemang är ett lotteri eller en tävling. Huvudregeln är att ett arrangemang som avgörs av ett slumpmoment är ett lotteri. Ett arrangemang som avgörs av ett prestationsmoment (t.ex. skriva en slogan, svara på kunskapsfrågor) är en tävling. I vissa fall kan det i ett arrangemang ingå såväl lotteri- som tävlingsmoment.

För att avgöra huruvida det är fråga om ett lotteri eller en tävling behöver man se till hur de olika graderna av slump och prestation förhåller sig till varandra. Enligt praxis är ett arrangemang totalt sett att anse som ett lotteri om prestationsmomentet föregår slumpmomentet. Vidare omfattas intetävlingar av lotterilagens regler och därför ingår de inte heller i Lotteriinspektionens tillstånds- och tillsynsområde. Tävlingar är alltså inte en tillståndspliktig verksamhet.


(Google Translate)
It can sometimes be difficult to determine whether an arrangement is a lottery or a contest. The general rule is that an event which is determined by a random element is a lottery. An arrangement that is determined by a performance elements (eg, write a slogan, answer quizzes) is a competition. In some cases it may be included in an arrangement as well as lottery contest torque.

To determine whether the case of a lottery or a competition one needs to see how the different degrees of coincidence and performance relate to each other. By convention, an event overall, to be considered as a lottery on performance torque preceding random moment. Furthermore not covered competitions of the Lotteries Act rules and why they should not be in the Gaming Board's licensing and regulatory oversight. Sweepstakes is not a licensable activity.

My guess is that they see EU as a competition....

I would say so many things but everything would just sound harsh. So just my two general cents:

I just feel sad for you that Entropia caused you so much pain, I personally have a lot of fun for over 10 years (with a break now and then). Entropia is a hard RCE game and the only rule to have fun is to play at your level. By that I mean financial level. Spend what you can spend for entertainment and work with that, heck, I have a lot of friends who play for free at decent levels and friends that are almost level 100 in profession, but grind small tiny mobs with small guns (because that is what their real life budget allows them).

We all play on different levels, but we all have the same fun.

I would really tell you to stop your non-sense crusade and spend the time you are now spending complaining about the game to spend on thinking about yourself. Learn from the mistakes you did, and maybe give Entropia another shot but with different approach.

Spend only what you would spend going to Bar or Cinema. Play at your level, find friends that play at that level and have fun.

You will definitely feel overall better having fun, rather then crusading against MA.

PS: Also I remember you felt like some people here playing are MA employees. My advice here is to stop assuming things, assumptions are just evil...

That's my advice..

Pecka

I've heard from plenty of ppl that "Swedish gaming athority" (fk spelling=) is big brothering MA, all the way back since i started, and from so many different ppl i started to believe it, almost.
Well, this threw that folklore out the window, and good riddance..

Quote.
"In the autumn of 2008 Lotteriinspektionen did try EU out,"
End Quote.

When government called or sent a letter setting a time, they dynamically showed a dynamically, at that moment avatar that had it upswing!

If I'm scared to open my mind on here, well it would be childish if and corrupt to screw with my parameters ingame, oh, perhaps not if they turned them back to normal..

Cheerio.

I think it would be a big PLUS for entropia uiverse if this kind of authority had investigated the design of loot system and concluded it was completely random

PW3CKA

I would say so many things but everything would just sound harsh. So just my two general cents:

I just feel sad for you that Entropia caused you so much pain, I personally have a lot of fun for over 10 years (with a break now and then). Entropia is a hard RCE game and the only rule to have fun is to play at your level. By that I mean financial level. Spend what you can spend for entertainment and work with that, heck, I have a lot of friends who play for free at decent levels and friends that are almost level 100 in profession, but grind small tiny mobs with small guns (because that is what their real life budget allows them).

We all play on different levels, but we all have the same fun.

I would really tell you to stop your non-sense crusade and spend the time you are now spending complaining about the game to spend on thinking about yourself. Learn from the mistakes you did, and maybe give Entropia another shot but with different approach.

Spend only what you would spend going to Bar or Cinema. Play at your level, find friends that play at that level and have fun.

You will definitely feel overall better having fun, rather then crusading against MA.

PS: Also I remember you felt like some people here playing are MA employees. My advice here is to stop assuming things, assumptions are just evil...

That's my advice..

Pecka

Click to expand...

Agree 100%
Faceof is Dynamic...
Faceof...

helena said:

I think it would be a big PLUS for entropia uiverse if this kind of authority had investigated the design of loot system and concluded it was completely random

Click to expand...

Absolutely correct.

PW3CKA said:

I would say so many things but

PS: Also I remember you felt like some people here playing are MA employees. My advice here is to stop assuming things, assumptions are just evil...

That's my advice..

Pecka

Click to expand...

But then you did!

Anywho, there are several MA employees playing what Ive heard, maybe thats folklore.

helena said:

I think it would be a big PLUS for entropia uiverse if this kind of authority had investigated the design of loot system and concluded it was completely random

Click to expand...

Yep, but Swedish government and their agencies are retarded, the only thing they know about computers is when they get new expensive ones, on the behalf of the Swedish population.

They don't know which the windows button is.

Thanks for posting Joat.

While Google Translate will enable members to get the gist of the translation, it would be helpful if a Swedish-speaking member would also provide a more accurate translation to English.

My understanding of the Google Translate quoted above is that:
1. Events which are wholly decided by random elements are considered 'lotteries'.
2. Events which are wholly decided by performing activities are considered 'competitions'.
3. Some events may have both random and performance elements. In these cases, they will look at the relative importance of both the random and performance elements in deciding whether the event is a lottery or is a competition.

I agree that it would seem that they have decided that Entropia has more elements of 'competition' than 'lottery', and thus as a game is not considered 'gambling' within the scope of their legislation.

For those who suggest 'going to the police':
. Police investigate criminal matters in order to charge offenders and place evidence before a court. Criminal cases involve actions that are considered to be harmful to society as a whole - such as: murder, assault, robbery, burglary, driving while intoxicated, and so on.
. Police cannot investigate civil matters. Civil cases usually involve private disputes between persons or organizations.
. If you wish to pursue a civil matter, you will need to consult a legal practitioner - not just make a complaint to a police officer and expect them to investigate on your behalf.

LucidTerror said:

But then you did!

Anywho, there are several MA employees playing what Ive heard, maybe thats folklore.

Click to expand...

Thats true that they play, with both known and anonymous avatars.
They even have it on schedule at work, that certain people in the staff has to play.

what an sad guy you are,you want ma closed and thus assets of friends ingame seized too ?
you must be 1 of those guys that cant use their brain to profit and then decide that if i cant profit then no1 can,and not search your inability to profit within yourself