Mining finder radius fake

So today I did like 150 drops with DSEC 30 in a grid fashion. Worth noting:

1. Followed 3 perception gains to a lvl 10 claim.
2. Hit a 2nd lvl 10 claim with no skill hints, but it was 'CLOSED OFF' from the rest of deposits i found. (Usually they form clusters or veins).
3. My returns / HR were very good all in all, and i didn't do anything more than just honeycomb...

Happy mining!
 
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Has anyone looked at a Reimann surface in order to map depth ?
 
The mining system has been changed (under the hood) since the early days, but there's no official update on equipment parameters like Range and Depth (i.e. what do they do).

Here's my hypothesis, based on my mining experience:
range = multiplier (think full condition indoor, full quantity planetside), and possibly hit rate modifer
depth = spread of minerals found (meaning: more depth = more variety in stuff. It's like DPP for mining)

Every drop is just another lottery ticket with the same % chance of finding stuff that's available on that server.
Depth enhancers are useful for "unlocking" rare ores (like redulite -1000m finder depth).
Range enhancers could be useful if it also modified hit rate. Not sure whether hit rate indoor and planetside is fixed or not.

I used to run grids and drop every 110m to have no overlap, but I don't see any difference when I run 'n drop with 40-50m range, and even run over the same area again 15 minutes later. I haven't dropped enough to see any difference in composition of ores after a certain time intervals (after 15 min, 1h, 12h etc). For the rare stuff it's very hard to achieve enough drops in to measure this. If there's a timer, it has to be a personal timer, because other miners can mine an area I just mined and find any ore. Because of that, I find it less likely.

The few miners who drop enough and also track their loot could probably verify or debunk my hypothesis.
 
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I have tried to maintain a log for redulite hunting and can tell ya its very random. theres no fixed % of hits per x number of drops. i still stand with my theory that 40 m spacing drops is prob the best way to go, as i have found numerous pockets with that range of multiple ores, especially on Arakdia. Then again, it could just be positive bias😋
 
What if what we are doing according to the game is the "random" part.. You cannot perform the same action in this game and expect a different result. My hypothesis has always been based on actions. I do something at x,y, are area around me changes to reflect the change that I performed.. If there is no change, the game will remain the same.
As a miner, we place and retrieve resources from the ground, are those resources physically placed under the ground where we dont see it. If so, how are they placed, can a model be created to illustrate this ? (hello numberspiral.com, totally not sponsored)

Can that model be applied to other aspects of the game, like skills for example ?...
 
Question, is there an easy way to represent the physical coordinates of a claim relatively? There totally is..... The game does it, so why don't the players do it ?

Yes math is hard(www.numberspiral.com (and no not a affiliate in any way)) but it is the language of the game.. You have to learn how to speak it..

ATAN2(x,y) = angle to claim
sqrt((x2-x1)^2+(y2-y1)^2) = distance to claim

so what if we take these values, transform them and try to predict where the next probe will hit.
 
Allow me to illustrate..

Add 55 m east and and 156m north to a miss coordinate and see what happens... (totally not because of www.numberspiral.com(totally not sponsored)) If this interests you, pm me back.. I am not going to give you the answers I don't have, but I will share what I do..

Quick edit, please use with a 54m radius finder... (a little hint there (totally not www.numberspiral.com))
 
Did you just discover a cool math thing? You seem reeeeaaallyyyy excited about it 😂

I dunno, seems way overengineered. I dont rly see the upside to placing claims that way from MAs/programmers side. Wouldnt that make it more predictable and also eat way more calc time then a simple "if rand < hitrate" then make claim somewhere. Add some fluff like save coords and time, check for recent saved claims in the area, if so change hitrate or delete saved coords or something if older than 5, 10, 15 mins, maybe lower hitrate in the area incase of redrop to OG-hitrate * (1- area-searched / max-area-of-finder), what ever. Just a couple lines of code you can expand to make as complicated to reverse engineer thru testing as youd like.

Dunno, im not a game developer but id think most stuff you SEE is "fake" in the sense that the calculations under the hood are as efficient as possible with an eye to obscurity so as to be unoutfindable (? thats not a real word?!). Rest is a graphical suit the system wears. Like i dont rly think playing the pharao themed slot machine game is any different than matching fruits. Tho, those fruits def are my favorite when i play while i have to wait for my kebab.

Like, i remember a talk about how reflections in water were way too expensive to calculate for some game way back when. So they faked it and had the whole game/map/area what ever mirrored "upside down" below what you saw. So when you looked at the puddle, you saw that. Dunno if its true, but it kinda stuck in my head as funny.

I have no clue about mining and havent done it in years, so cant contribute to the actual discussion and testing and data analysis like king of aces does. Just thought id weigh in on the e-23 possible coords, veins, graphical circles on finders and perception skill-ups. Seems, unlikely.

Cheers
 
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Ok so the maths.. You can correct me if I am wrong..

I am going to do this very simply so that everyone can understand it.

I am a miner standing on a point, I just have a point it has ZERO dimensions.
I add a dimension. Now I have a line r=radius^(1/1)
I add another. Now I have a square, r=radius^(1/2)
I add another. Now I have a cube, r=radius^(1/3)
I add another. Now I have a ....... oh my brains hurts stop this now ..... r=radius^(1/4)
What is the maximum I can have ? (and yes this is related to www.numberspiral.com (not sponsored))
 
Regarding skill gains... Lets say you somehow convert your skills into a line and then wrap that line up ....(www.numberspiral.com) so that it fits inside your finders diameter, where would the locations of each one of those "skill points" be ? Would obtaining a skillgain change the amount of points in the skill aray ?
Would obtaining a skill increase change the way that I see the world around me ?
 
MA is donning changes sadly and we don't have any clear base information like in hunting is the loot 2.0. All what is written here is speculation.
It was posted many times some basic information would be appreciated also for mining.
Range... i was drooping with 25% running sped buff and auto use tool - i am not happy with my tt return. It is maybe because of overlapping?
If someone is enjoying to do test and discuss mining theories i am open also open to it.
 
So if we are going to do this, then lets get the basics right.
1) Are the resources in the ground ? (ie coordinate based absolute coordinate system)
2) Do the resources spawn dynamically (ie when requested)

How do we test this ?
 
Ok so the maths.. You can correct me if I am wrong..

I am going to do this very simply so that everyone can understand it.

I am a miner standing on a point, I just have a point it has ZERO dimensions.
I add a dimension. Now I have a line r=radius^(1/1)
I add another. Now I have a square, r=radius^(1/2)
I add another. Now I have a cube, r=radius^(1/3)
I add another. Now I have a ....... oh my brains hurts stop this now ..... r=radius^(1/4)
What is the maximum I can have ? (and yes this is related to www.numberspiral.com (not sponsored))
The what? I dont think its about other peoples understanding but your nomenclature/style of posting.

A line has a radius? You mean half the length? What is r? r is typically the radius, what would "r equals the square root of the radius" even mean, especially in a square, as you call it? The radius of a cube? You mean a sphere? How is the radius of a square/circle and cube/sphere any different? You talking some definition of r in your spirals? What has that to do with anything? You can fit any line into any circle, no?

I feel like im being trolled but maybe not. But your multiple posts spanning splatter of thought cannot be followed, at least by me. Maybe consider a new thread with a concise write-up of where youre coming from and what it is you think a number spiral explains. Dont worry, im sure we have plenty of math guys here. Noones brain is gonna explode cuz of 4d spheres.
 
The what? I dont think its about other peoples understanding but your nomenclature/style of posting.

A line has a radius? You mean half the length? What is r? r is typically the radius, what would "r equals the square root of the radius" even mean, especially in a square, as you call it? The radius of a cube? You mean a sphere? How is the radius of a square/circle and cube/sphere any different? You talking some definition of r in your spirals? What has that to do with anything? You can fit any line into any circle, no?

I feel like im being trolled but maybe not. But your multiple posts spanning splatter of thought cannot be followed, at least by me. Maybe consider a new thread with a concise write-up of where youre coming from and what it is you think a number spiral explains. Dont worry, im sure we have plenty of math guys here. Noones brain is gonna explode cuz of 4d spheres.
My apologies.

A line has a single axis, its a 1d shape
A square has 2 axes, its a 2d shape.
A cube has 3 axes, its a 3d shape.
A broken mind.... ye thats what happens when I think of a 4d shape..

Onto how the spiral fits in.. A 1d spiral r=(m)^(1/1) x=cos(2*pi()*m^(1/1))*r y=-sin(2*pi()*m^(1/1))*r
I am only interested in the 2d projection of the (m)th root
A 2d would be r=(m)^(1/2) x=cos(2*pi()*m^(1/2))*r y=-sin(2*pi()*m^(1/2))*r
A 3d would be r=(m)^(1/3) x=cos(2*pi()*m^(1/3))*r y=-sin(2*pi()*m^(1/3)*r

Now I am imagining this in my head, the single point that makes up dimension 0 as a (m+1)th d sphere. If I take the axes lines from the planes below it and connect it to the inside of my sphere, what would the max amount of axis lines ?

Sorry I am not trained in the proper math terms do bear with me.. I would like to say 4*pi()*r^2, ie the surface area of a sphere. Can I do this ? and use that formula as my root ?
 
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A broken mind.... ye thats what happens when I think of a 4d shape..
Four-dimensional geometry is Euclidean geometry extended into one additional dimension. The prefix "hyper-" is usually used to refer to the four- (and higher-) dimensional analogs of three-dimensional objects, e.g., hypercube, hyperplane, hypersphere. -dimensional polyhedra are called polytopes.
 
Four-dimensional geometry is Euclidean geometry extended into one additional dimension. The prefix "hyper-" is usually used to refer to the four- (and higher-) dimensional analogs of three-dimensional objects, e.g., hypercube, hyperplane, hypersphere. -dimensional polyhedra are called polytopes.
My poor brain, it hurts......

One thing that really bugged me in RPGs in general is where is all the mob loot stored ? And thats where the idea of a (m)th dim came from ...
 
Well for most games loot isn't "Stored" Anywhere. The items have a drop rate chance of dropping.

Very common numbers are 1/64 1/256 1/512

So all the game does is roll an immaginary 512 sided die, and if it lands on say "1" Then the item drops.
 
I have tried to maintain a log for redulite hunting and can tell ya its very random. theres no fixed % of hits per x number of drops. i still stand with my theory that 40 m spacing drops is prob the best way to go, as i have found numerous pockets with that range of multiple ores, especially on Arakdia. Then again, it could just be positive bias😋

Pockets of ores would be a relevant thing only if you could get all possible results at once per same 1 ped probe. Otherwise you're just getting (or not) results for paying same cost but with reduced ROI in the long run. Decay of excavator and refiner, respectively auction fees are a few magnitudes more important in your actual $ results than the tentative of reverse engineering.
 
Ok, let's not go off track with MU and that crap. This is to talk about HITRATE, MINING SYSTEM, etc. All mechanics of EU.

I have a few weird facts to make you all THINK. Please contribute if you have any idea:

- Why does RANGE to claim have decimals but depth doesn't?
- How does HEIGHT factor into mining and does it affect range when running to a claim or from it?
- Why are there finders with a 54m range, 54.2, 54.8, 55... etc... ? How is 1 lame meter gonna change the game enough to play with range that way? Isn't that just an excuse to represent a whole new system?
- Finders have these depths: 104.5 / 109.5 , this jumps to 204/206, then to 213.9/223.9... and so on. WHY these pairs? why the .9 at the end? It makes no sense. How is depth so relevant to use decimals here, but not when finding a claim?
- Why do i hit a claim, move 2m and hit?
- Why does ingame radar have 8 cardinal points around it, and 5 zooms? Each zoom giving different measurements between each radar circle? Much of these being: 11, 22, 32, 43, 55, 66, 88... very important numbers.
I KNOW the following from my testing: Finder range indicates range at which a claim rod will pop, not range at which it SCANS the underground. What do i mean?

I move to X, drop, miss. Move 5m away, drop , HIT. A claim rod pops up at point X, why didn't i find it before? Simple. You must PRECISELY bomb a rich place to find something, but the claim ROD can be anywhere within them 55m (110m total). System is dynamic in the sense that you can't predict what resource the game will give, or HOW BIG, but FOR SURE there are hot spots, and if by a miracle u know WHERE to bomb... you need not miss! I've had up to 8 non misses... maybe more. It's just knowing where to bomb. How? Let's test and find out!
 
MA is donning changes sadly and we don't have any clear base information like in hunting is the loot 2.0. All what is written here is speculation.
Depends. Look for those who are providing reproducible data with valid statistical tests to show someone isn't just going with a pet theory, correlation ≠ causation, etc. Sometimes people will notice some event that happened before a HoF and assume that could be the reason why when in reality it's equivalent to thinking you won a local raffle because a rabid racoon happened to by looking at a full moon 10 minutes before the drawing. Happened at similar times, but not really related.

Logs usually don't count unless someone has designed their actions to compare two different things. Skill gains/perception is a popular old theory that no one has ever been able to verify with any data, though it wouldn't be hard for someone invested in that idea to show the hit rate, TT, globals, etc. correlate with certain skill gains with some pretty basic tests.

I got into it in some of my older testing posts, but there's a formal way us scientists test 2+ treatments to see if differences between the two of them are more than just chance. Kind of experimental design 101. For most theories out there, someone would just have to try method 1 vs. method 2 and compare something like HR. For most theories out there, I'd expect to see no statistical difference, and it's really on someone to provide data that there is an effect. That's at least why I don't stray much past actual analyzed data from my testing (and keep a lot private aside from the few minor things I've posted about).
 
I have got to be worst miner in game. I don't keep logs and i just use LBML. When i hit claim i drop another where Radis stopped so they don't over lap. Although i never have deposit for last 15 years and still making profit, i must be also the most luckiest miner in game. :D
 
Ok, let's not go off track with MU and that crap. This is to talk about HITRATE, MINING SYSTEM, etc. All mechanics of EU.
I suggest rereading my post. I have said absolutely nothing about MU. Actually only MU would justify your approach. But, whatever, have your fun reinventing the wheel.
 
I have got to be worst miner in game. I don't keep logs and i just use LBML. When i hit claim i drop another where Radis stopped so they don't over lap. Although i never have deposit for last 15 years and still making profit, i must be also the most luckiest miner in game. :D
That’s essentially what I do at a minimum. There are other things, but basically not much work to avoid overlapping.
 
That’s essentially what I do at a minimum. There are other things, but basically not much work to avoid overlapping.

Oh you are so much more scientific in the way you mine to me, but i love reading your posts. I know i could so much better, but i a just to lazy. :D
 
MA is donning changes sadly and we don't have any clear base information like in hunting is the loot 2.0. All what is written here is speculation.
It was posted many times some basic information would be appreciated also for mining.
Range... i was drooping with 25% running sped buff and auto use tool - i am not happy with my tt return. It is maybe because of overlapping?
If someone is enjoying to do test and discuss mining theories i am open also open to it.
I tested this on indoor mining but I was buffed up to 45% run speed works okish TT return wise. I wouldn't do this planet side btw but certainly was the best fun I had out mining and whole entropia experience tbh. Speed mining through mobs absolutely loved it no doubt monria residents throught I was mad.

Big killer for this is caps on ores, refresh rates. Eventually it was clear at least for me unamped not worth it because kept coming up with TT food ores coupled with sustained loses 80% which I got kick backs planet side for. I will say it was a big eye opener on ore layouts for indoor and strange behaviour with amps.

I was going through a p30 every 2 days btw morning session and evening if you want to know :ROFLMAO:
 
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Wait, so if I have a 54m finder, I can run 55m and I should have a normal hit rate? I think i always did 110ish
 
Wait, so if I have a 54m finder, I can run 55m and I should have a normal hit rate? I think i always did 110ish
I think if it matters so much ma would have over the years provided an in-game tool. What it will do is mess with your conversion rate so if your not hitting anything then hit a big oil whatever you haven't really made anything. My take on it anyways as ma never really explained the mining side in loot 2.0.

I always try planet side to estimate it and only double or triple drop if claim is right next to me or you get a double barrel claim ie ore and ematter close together it normally means a small cluster.

Their is people in fort argus going round in tiny circles just dropping one after another on pyrite hill prolly bots some of them as soon as they see pyrite global they swarm the area. But even if they get pyrite out say 50 60 drops what's their conversation rate going to be.
 
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I do agree that CLAIM proximity seems to be KEY. The closer 2 claims are the more density around that place! Anybody want to add anything on this point?
 
I do agree that CLAIM proximity seems to be KEY. The closer 2 claims are the more density around that place! Anybody want to add anything on this point?
Indoor exactly the same but you can't double drop due to the range so you have to move out 10 15 meters to find clusters.
 
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