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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleg View Post
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    There are some (not many) animals that can't be sweated. Iirc Argonauts can't be sweated but give animal skills.
    They are mutants as well.

  2. #12
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Creature #1: Foul (L4)
    Location: SW of Fort Troy
    My Animal Looter level: 20.00
    My Mutant Looter level: 12.50
    My Evade level: 20.50
    Rings: Athenic (L) and Aeglic (L)
    Weapon #1 (efficiency): LR S1X1 + A101 (60.9%)
    Weapon #2 (efficiency): Worm Blaster mk V (57.0%)
    Weapons decay (incl. attachments): 76.54 PED
    Armor/FAP decay: 3.38 PED (Tiger)
    Total ammo spent: 247.50 PED
    Total spent on hunt (w/mu): 327.42 PED

    Hunting run duration: ~5 hours
    Globals/HoFs: 10.44
    Item looted - value: Isis BL300 (L) - 8.59 PED @ 110% = 9.45
    Stackables: 281.18 PED
    Net returns (w/mu): 290.63 or 88.8%
    Loot quality, i.e. % shrapnel: 57.4% of loot tt was shrapnel
    Profit/Cost per hour: -7 PED/hour


    Defense strategy: Since I don't have an Adjusted Restoration chip or Modified FAP, my best option is to use UL armor with decent Durability and thus avoid incurring any markup fees from using limited armor. The highest Durability UL armor I have currently is Tiger so I used that. Obviously that's really strong armor for these guys, way stronger then is required, so I just wore 3 parts so as to mitigate some of the damage that was being dealt to me. Doing this allowed me to take advantage of free health regeneration and therefore reduce my overall defense costs.

    Hunting style: This is a really dense spawn but thankfully these fouls don't move around, so it's easier to tag them one at a time and avoid aggro'ing too many at once. The S1X1 + A101 was a very good match for these as they would usually drop dead just as they reached me. If I accidentally aggro'ed too many at once I'd pull out the Worm Blaster to kill them faster.

    Notable: During the hunt the LR S1X1 went from tier 0.18 to 0.72, which is pretty good I think. It could be an indication that the gun was a good match to the mob, I've hunted smaller mobs with it and did not get such tier gains, but I have not formally tested this theory.

    What I learned: The Animal Looter gains from this 5 hour hunt was only 0.03. I got Skinning skills often, but the amount I got didn't add up to much. I'll have to hunt a bit bigger if I want to increase my Looter skills faster. I also realized I should keep track of the ratio of shrapnel versus other loot, perhaps there will be a distinguishable pattern long-term when comparing hunting runs.

    EDIT: I didn't realize it at the time but the Fouls drop a lot of Purple paint which has a decent MU around 125%. Taking this MU into consideration pushes my Net returns up to about 90%.
    Last edited by Legends; 02-17-2020 at 08:45.
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  3. #13
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleg View Post
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    I'm pretty sure Foul gives Animal Looted and Investigator skills, so the thread is correct. If you have evidence to the contrary let us know please
    All through the hunt I just finished on Fouls I got Skinning skills. I believe those are related to Animal Looter? Do we also skin Mutants?

    I'm thinking Fouls are an Animal
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  4. #14
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Creature hunted: Drones (L8-L10)
    My Robot Looter level: 11.44
    My Dodge level: 14.75
    Rings: Athenic (L) and Aeglic (L)
    Weapon #1 (efficiency): MarCorp Kallous-5 + A103 (63.1%)
    Weapon #2 (efficiency): Worm Blaster mk V + Bull Tac30 (55.8%)
    Weapons decay (incl. attachments): 122.37 PED
    Armor/FAP decay: 6.16 PED (Adj Vigi)
    Total ammo spent: 495 PED
    Total spent on hunt (w/mu): 623.53 PED

    Hunting run duration: ~3 hours
    Globals/HoFs: none
    Items looted - value: Electric 1 (L) @ 125% = 8.75
    Stackables: 499.50 PED
    Net returns (w/mu): 508.25 or 81.5%
    Loot quality, i.e. % shrapnel: 77.4% of loot tt was shrapnel
    Profit/Cost per hour: -38 PED/hour


    These Drones haven't been good to me so far... But I wanted to work on my Robot Looter skills and this was my best option. I wish I had picked up some Robot Irons before they were replaced by the Codex.

    What I learned: I feel like I'm paying for skills. While I'm at it, I guess I should take a look at what Iron missions I haven't finished yet and just finish those while I still can and maximize the skill gains.
    Last edited by Legends; 02-17-2020 at 08:56.
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  5. #15
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Creature #1: Allophyl (L14-L18)
    Creature #2: Estophyl (L20-L23)
    Location: Livas Heights
    My Animal Looter level: 20.22
    My Evade level: 20.77
    Rings: Athenic (L) and Aeglic (L)
    Weapon #1 (efficiency): ArMatrix LR-20 (L) + A103/LR1/B8/ExtendP10 (67.2%)
    Weapon #2 (efficiency): GeoTrek H21 Scrof (L) + A105 Hypercharged/LR1+B4/B8 (63.2%)
    Weapons decay (incl. attachments): 324.60 PED (+10.50 in markup paid)
    Armor/FAP decay: 11.85 PEDs (Phantom + 6B)
    Total ammo spent: 993 PED
    Total spent on hunt (w/mu): 1339.95 PED

    Hunting run duration: ~5 hours
    Globals/HoFs: 64, 68, 124, 68 & 53
    Items looted: Neopsion 10-A (L), Lacerating 4 (L), Regen 4 (L), Isis LLP 25 (L), 3xAurora (L) parts
    Items TT value (~markup value): 224.13 PED (+12.50 in markup value)
    Stackables: 1311.43 PED
    Net returns (w/mu): 1548 or 115.5%
    Loot quality, i.e. % shrapnel: 58.77% of loot tt was shrapnel
    Profit/Cost per hour: +42 PED/hour

    Acronyms:
    LR1: Lonreach 1
    B4: Bullseye 4
    B8: Bullseye 8



    I had a pretty good run, but my main reason for hunting these is because I have the 5k Iron still open on them and the reward is pretty decent so I'd like to finish it before MindArk takes it away. So I started out this hunting run sitting at 425/5000 and finished with 943/5000, meaning I killed 518 in total, or roughly 100 per hour.

    Acquisitions: Longreach 1 for tt+11, Longreach 1 for tt+14, Bullseye 8 for tt+31.

    Hunting style: just trying to use the H21 Scrof (L) mostly as it has a lower markup, and I use the ArMatrix LR-20 (L) as a tagger.

    Defense: No fapping required. The Phantom with the 6B plates is the perfect armor set-up. I still take a little bit of damage here and there from the higher maturities which means I get to take advantage of free health regeneration and save on armor decay a little.

    Notable: I bought an Extender P10 (L) for 103% on the auction and this was the first time I ever used this type of attachment. I've done the math and, in addition to raising the efficiency a little on the weapon it is attached to, it will save me 0.54 PEC of the 6.75 PED I paid in markup on the ArMatrix LR-20 (L), so why not.

    What I learned: I didn't want to use an ArMatrix gun as they have quite a bit of markup but in the end, this 5 hour hunting run only cost me about 10 PED in markup which is nothing really. More than half the decay was on the unlimited amps so that helps a lot. I've also realized that using an Extender is well worth it, not only to save on markup costs but also to raise the efficiency on the weapon as well. Also I'm thinking level 20 guns might be a bit weak for the higher maturities so I'm glad I looted the LLP 25 as I think it will be perfect for the next hunting run I do on these guys.
    Last edited by Legends; 02-17-2020 at 09:05.
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  6. #16
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS:

    Started analyzing the numbers and the first thing that jumped out at me is just how insignificant the defensive costs really are. Just to put things into perspective, here's how it compares to the rest of the costs on the above hunts:

    1. Allo/Esto hunt had 11.85 armor/plate decay vs 1345 PED total hunt costs = less than 0.9%
    2. Drone hunt had 6.16 armor/plate decay vs 628.50 total costs = less than 1%
    3. Foul hunt had 3.38 armor decay vs 330 total costs = 1%

    I'm looking at this now and thinking how that fits into the big picture and can't help but think, wow, all this obsession about saving on markup when really, at the end of the day, the difference it's going to make is really minuscule. Let's take a real example:

    Let's imagine for a second that instead of using Phantom+6B I had used Aurora (L) + 6B. Aurora (L) pieces usually cost around 105% in mu on the auction. Let's run the numbers again and see what difference that 5% in markup would have made:

    1. On the Phantom+6B armor setup, it should be fair to assume that the armor received approximately 68% of the decay and the plates would get the remaining 32% (because 6B provides 17 points and Phantom provides 36 points against Allo/Esto, which is Impact/Electric. 36/53=68%, other 32% is 6B plates).
    2. Phantom+6B had decayed 11.85
    3. Armor portion of that decay is 11.85*0.68=8.06 PED
    4. Remaining 3.79 was the decay on the 6B plates which will remain unchanged
    --
    Now we need to take into consideration 2 main differences which will impact our new decay costs for the Aurora (L):
    1. Aurora (L) armor has a markup of about 105%
    2. Aurora (L) has 10,300 more points of Durability than Phantom does, which will result in protection cost savings of 8%, for the same damage absorbed.
    3. 8.06/1.08= 7.46 is the new armor decay
    4. 7.46 factors into loot calculations and is returned at ~95% the same as Phantom
    5. Markup portion on 7.46 is 7.46*0.05=0.37 PED, that is not returned in loot

    Weapons decay (incl. attachments): 324.60 PED (+10.50 in markup paid)
    Armor/FAP decay: 11.85 PEDs (Phantom + 6B)
    Total ammo spent: 998 PED
    Total spent on hunt (w/mu): 1344.95 PED
    Becomes:
    Weapons decay (incl. attachments): 324.60 PED (+10.50 in markup paid)
    Armor/FAP decay: 11.25 PEDs (+0.37 in mu for Aurora (L))
    Total ammo spent: 998 PED
    Total spent on hunt (w/mu): 1344.72 PED

    Items TT value (~markup value): 224.13 PED (+12.50 in markup value)
    Stackables: 1311.43 PED
    Net returns (w/mu): 1548 or 115%
    Loot quality, i.e. % shrapnel: 58.77% of loot tt was shrapnel
    Profit/Cost per hour: +40 PED/hour
    Becomes:
    Items TT value (~markup value): 224.13 PED (+12.50 in markup value)
    Stackables: 1310.86 PED
    Net returns (w/mu): 1547.49 or 115%

    Loot quality, i.e. % shrapnel: 58.77% of loot tt was shrapnel
    Profit/Cost per hour: +40 PED/hour

    The difference on the returns = -0.57 PED
    On a hunting run where the returns are almost 1550 PEDs, such a small amount does not affect the Net return %, not even a tenth of a percent, so what's the big fuss?

    THE BIG PICTURE:
    If I did use Aurora (L) instead of Phantom, I would pay approximately 19.5 PED in markup for a 391 PED full tt set (but I'd save 1.50 PED due to higher Durability, see *Note1 below). This armor set would last me at least 250 hours, which translates to an actual cost of 8 PEC of markup per hour of hunting.

    So in other words, in order to save myself 8 PEC/hour of hunting (which is less than a penny btw), I'm going to lock in almost $200 usd on a Phantom set? Is that really sensible?

    Anyways I have the Unlimited armor so I'm going to use it, but if you don't have it, I don't think it's worth worrying about too much...

    But what that also tells me is that Evade/Dodge skills are not as important as they used to be in the past (before loot 2.0), same goes with Health. Looter professions take rank at the top now. Additionally, all of these fancy healing tools that cost 4k PED or more, that heal you for > 25 points/pec, doesn't really matter too much anymore when you look at this, because 95% of what you spend on healing is returned in the loot of the mob and the amounts are so minuscule that the actual savings are really negligible, maybe a few pec in a hunt (see *Note2 below), so is it really worth tying up $400 into an Adj Resto chip or Modified or FEN Edition FAP? I don't know... Especially when you consider that you need to stop shooting to heal yourself, which is not the case with Armor.

    --
    *Note1: Limited armor always has about 10k more points of durability which means that it costs less per point of protection, about 8% less. So what that means is that I actually get 422.28 PED worth of unlimited armor protection for the cost of 391 PED using a limited armor (391*1.08=422.28). That 31.28 PED that I would have spent for protection using unlimited armor would have been returned in loot at approximately 95%, so 29.71 would have been returned, meaning a loss of 1.56 PED.

    *Note2: This will vary greatly on your hunting style, if you rely mostly on healing instead of armor protection, than obviously it could add up to more important savings, but I suspect these would still be small, but we'll only know for sure if/when someone actually runs the numbers. If anyone is willing to lend me theirs, I'll use it for one of my hunting runs and figure out the math on it.
    Last edited by Legends; 02-04-2020 at 09:36.
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  7. #17
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Creature #1: Allophyl (L14-L18)
    Creature #2: Estophyl (L20-L23)
    Location: Livas Heights
    My Animal Looter level: 20.45
    My Evade level: 20.83
    Rings: Athenic (L) and Aeglic (L)
    Weapon #1 (efficiency): ArMatrix LR-20 (L) + A105 Hyper/LR1+B4/B8/ExtendP15 (66.2%)
    Weapon #2 (efficiency): Isis LLP 25 (L) + A103/LR1/Bullseye8/ExtendP10 (~63%)
    Weapon #3 (efficiency): GeoTrek H21 Scrof (L) + A103/LR1/Bullseye8/ExtendP10 (64.1%)
    Weapons decay (incl. attachments): 325.34 PED (+5.70 markup)
    Armor/FAP decay: 12.70 PED (Phantom + 6B)
    Total ammo spent: 1088 PED
    Total spent on hunt (w/mu): 1431.74 PED

    Hunting run duration: ~ 4.5 hours
    Globals/HoFs: 165, 105, 56, 79 & 92
    Items looted: Isis LLC 13 (L) and Regen 4 (L)
    Items TT value (~markup value): 71.57 (+7.32 markup)
    Stackables: 1532.07 PED
    Net returns (w/mu): 1611 PED or 112.5%
    Loot quality, i.e. % shrapnel: 71.4% of loot tt was shrapnel
    Profit/Cost per hour: +40 PED/hour


    Another great run on the Allo/Estos at Livas Heights. I'm now sitting at 1508/5000, which means I killed 565 in total, or roughly 125 per hour which is a little faster then before, probably because of the LLP 25 which has 8 more dps than the H21 Scrof.

    Acquisitions: Won an auction for an Extender P15 (L) for 101.33%

    Hunting style: same as before, trying to use the ArMatrix as a tagger mostly and the handguns for doing most of the damage to save on markup fees. I also switched the A105 Hypercharged onto the ArMatrix rifle because I thought it made more sense that way; deal more damage to the mob as it's on it's way to me, then finish it off with the handgun, less overkill that way.

    Defense: still no fapping. Phantom + 6B is perfect. I took off 2 plates to try and get more damage and take advantage of free health regeneration and save on armor decay a little more. My defense costs were less than 0.9% of the total costs so I'm happy with that.

    Notable: The first 4 globals were all within the first 75 minutes of this run. I could have ended it there at well over 300% returns. Loot really dried up for me after that, I thought about ending it or switching mobs (Feffoids seemed to be paying out well), but I had already decided to do a 1100 PED ammo run on these guys, so all I could do was hope that loot would start to get good again. It never did.

    What I learned: Loot quality took a dive on this one, I got 12% more shrap than on the previous run. I didn't get any Aurora (L) armor pieces, I think 3 of the globals were just pure shrap... I'm not really sure if there's any particular reason for this, the only difference in my setup was the LLP 25 (L) vs the H21 Scrof (L), which is only 1% less efficiency, there's no way that 1% less efficiency can result in 12% more shrap...? Maybe the previous run was just exceptional somehow.

    Achievements: level 40 Laser Sniper (Hit) - Unlocked Coolness and also reached level 21 Evader.
    Last edited by Legends; 02-17-2020 at 09:11.
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  8. #18
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    Creature #1: Allophyl (L14-L18)
    Creature #2: Estophyl (L20-L23)
    Location: Livas Heights
    My Animal Looter level: 20.74
    My Evade level: 21.03
    Rings: Athenic (L) and Aeglic (L)
    Weapon #1 (efficiency): ArMatrix LR-35 (L) + A105 Hyper/LR1/B8/ExtendP15 (66.4%)
    Weapon #2 (efficiency): GeoTrek H21 Scrof (L) + A103/LR1+B8/B4/ExtendP10 (63.8%)
    Weapons decay (incl. attachments): 276.88 PED (+9.84 markup)
    Armor/FAP decay: 10.35 PED (Phantom + 4C)
    Total ammo spent: 1088 PED
    Total spent on hunt (w/mu): 1385.07 PED

    Hunting run duration: ~ 4.5 hours
    Globals/HoFs: none
    Items looted: Kinetic 4 (L)
    Items TT value (~markup value): 23.38 (+0 markup)
    Stackables: 1113.06 PED
    Net returns (w/mu): 1159.82 PED or 83.8%
    Loot quality, i.e. % shrapnel: 68.1% of loot tt was shrapnel
    Profit/Cost per hour: -50 PED/hour

    --
    Really mediocre run. All I can ask myself is "Did I have $5 worth of fun per hour?" Anyway, I'm at 2,028/5k now, closing in on the halfway mark.

    Acquisitions: ArMatrix LR-35 (L) for ~114%

    Hunting style: I'm mostly using the LR-35 now, and only use the H21 Scrof to finish off the L14 Allos to save a bit on overkill.

    Defense: Since I'm using a bigger gun, I'm getting hit by the mob a lot less, so the Phantom with 4C plates is plenty and no fapping was required throughout the hunt. My defensive costs are down too, but that doesn't make much of a difference (2.50 ped less in armor decay, on a 1400 ped hunt really makes no difference at all).

    Notable: I got the MF Chip near the end of the hunt, and got a couple of near globals, I thought maybe loot was going to start getting better. Then at the very end (second last mob), I got a 77% skill boost for 15 minutes. So what was planned to be a 1k ped run became a 1.1k run. MindArk sure knows how to keep us shooting.

    What I learned: I'm not going to start complaining yet, I had a couple of really nice runs on these guys before and all this shows is that if it's possible to make 200 ped on a hunt, it's also possible to lose 200 ped on one. I thought about cutting it short several times, and I probably should have, but this hunting log would not be useful at all if it didn't also show what the runs look like when loot is bad. I was thinking to myself, last run I had 4 globals in the first 75 minutes, then the next 3 hours or so was just terrible, so maybe this time, the first 3 hours will be bad and then the last hour will be really good. Sadly, that's not how it went. My takeaway from this one is that if the loot is really bad for the first hour, it could be bad for the next 3 or 4 hours.

    Achievements: level 12 Robot Looter
    Last edited by Legends; 02-17-2020 at 09:14.
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  9. #19
    Old Alpha Legends's Avatar
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    LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS:

    Studying what all the best Codex rewards are, to increase my loot returns.

    This post shows all of the currently available Codex rewards:

    Quote Originally Posted by Oleg View Post
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    Reserved for collating stuff...

    Skill selections
    These seems to be the "standard" ones - please report if you find any variations


    Skill set 1 (Stages 1, 2, 6, 7, 11, 12, 16, 17, 21, 22)
    Aim, Anatomy, Athletics, BLP Weaponry Technology, Combat Reflexes, Dexterity, Handgun, Heavy Melee Weapons, Laser Weaponry Technology, Light Melee Weapons, Longblades, Power Fist, Rifle, Shortblades, Weapons Handling

    Skill set 2 (Stages 3, 4, 8, 9, 13, 14, 18, 19, 23, 24)
    Clubs, Courage, Cryogenics, Diagnosis, Electrokinesis, Inflict Melee Damage, Inflict Ranged Damage, Melee Combat, Perception, Plasma Weaponry Technology, Pyrokinesis

    Skill set 3 (Stages 5, 10, 15, 20, 25)
    Alertness, Bioregenesis, Bravado, Concentration, Dodge, Evade, First Aid, Telepathy, Translocation, Vehicle Repairing

    Skill set 4 (Stages 5, 15, 25 on some mobs)
    Analysis, Animal Lore, Biology, Botany, Computer, Explosive Weaponry Technology, Heavy Weapons, Support Weapon Systems, Zoology

    Google sheet with collated data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    All-stages calculator created by LavaSparks: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
    Since the Looter professions will increase loot returns up to 7%, at level 100 (according to testing done), then they are the most valuable skills to have and increase. Looking at what each one of the options above actually contribute to, I have determined that the best options available in each set are as follows:

    Set 1: Anatomy (contributes 7% to Animal/Mutant Looter skills)
    Set 2: Perception (contributes 9% to all Looter skills)
    Set 3: Alertness (contributes 6% to all Looter skills, 5% Evade/Dodge)
    Set 4: Analysis (contributes 5% to all Looter skills)
    Last edited by Legends; 01-31-2020 at 08:44.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legends View Post
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    ..
    Globals/HoFs: 10.44
    Item looted - value: Isis BL300 (L) - 8.59 PED @ 110% = 9.45
    I don't think you can count your returns incl mu this way.
    it should be: 8.59 PED @ 110% = 9.45 - 0.60 (auction fee) = 8.85
    So actual MU is 0.26 and not 0.86.

    I've been doing the merp bronze and most have looted a hundred guns already. Even though they have around 110% MU (on the auction graph), that's not what you get for them.
    Most listed items dont even sell. And 110% MU on an item below 10 ped becomes pretty much nothing.

    Listing them on auction will cost you MU instead of giving it. So basically they're tt food.

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