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Does Damage to PEC Matter?

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BattleAxe

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Jan 1, 2012
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Sequim, WA
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Indestructible BattleAxe OfPain
Hey,

I recently had a debate with someone else on the actual importance of damage to PEC while hunting. I said it mattered, he said it didn't. I'll give my side, then his, then you can give yours. :)

My side: Damage to PEC matters, because, while hunting, you want to do as much damage as possible, for as little PEC as possible. Thus it's best to use weapons that cost the least possible PEC, while doing the most possible damage. Something which directly correlates with your skill level. i.e. You don't want to use a Jester D-3 when your level 0, because you'll miss a lot; meaning you'll get, as sometimes it may hit, a very small damage to PEC. But if you use a maxed opalo, you're damage to PEC becomes much higher.

His side: Damage to PEC doesn't matter. To think it does is like saying it's silly to use amps while mining, because it costs more per drop. -- At least, that's the gist of what I saw him type. Maybe he'll post a reply and further his side.

So, what do you all think? Does damage to PEC matter or not?

Thank you,

BA
 
Ofcourse it matters and I always use an amp on my gun too, more dmg per pec
 
Your loot return is directly proportional to the amount of damage done to the mob. So you will get the highest return for your money if you use an economical setup. There are a lot of contradictory loot theories, and few people adequately test their theories, so you will hear a lot of different answers.

Your friend's reasoning is faulty because the loot formula is not the same for mining and hunting. When you use a mining amp, you're more likely to find larger claims, that's how mining amps work. If you strap an amp onto a gun, or use a big, uneconomical gun, you're not going to get more loot out of the mob, but you will kill the mob faster.
 
Neil Stockton said:
Your loot return is directly proportional to the amount of damage done to the mob. So you will get the highest return for your money if you use an economical setup. There are a lot of contradictory loot theories, and few people adequately test their theories, so you will hear a lot of different answers.

Your friend's reasoning is faulty because the loot formula is not the same for mining and hunting. When you use a mining amp, you're more likely to find larger claims, that's how mining amps work. If you strap an amp onto a gun, or use a big, uneconomical gun, you're not going to get more loot out of the mob, but you will kill the mob faster.
Click to expand...

Indeed amped mining and amped hunting are very different.:girl:
 
Neil Stockton; said:
If you strap an amp onto a gun, or use a big, uneconomical gun, you're not going to get more loot out of the mob, but you will kill the mob faster.
Click to expand...

Actually you are :p The more you spend to kill it the more you will get paid back :) if there is a cap I'm not sure but the loot payback is def. Based on what you spend.
 
Neil Stockton said:
Your loot return is directly proportional to the amount of damage done to the mob. So you will get the highest return for your money if you use an economical setup. There are a lot of contradictory loot theories, and few people adequately test their theories, so you will hear a lot of different answers.

Your friend's reasoning is faulty because the loot formula is not the same for mining and hunting. When you use a mining amp, you're more likely to find larger claims, that's how mining amps work. If you strap an amp onto a gun, or use a big, uneconomical gun, you're not going to get more loot out of the mob, but you will kill the mob faster.
Click to expand...

Try killing just 1k mobs with a uneconomical setup and tell me that you do not get anymore loot at all?

also different weapons can loot differently to lazy to look up quotes. I notice with uneconomical set ups i tend to get more mu to normally offset the extra cost. The 80-90% return I get tt though are a bigger loss compared to economy setup.

For mission i would say go economical. To try and get a rare loot I would say uneconomical.
 
It's not only about damage/pec, it's also about have the right weapon for each kind of mob. Have a good damage/pec, but a low damage/sec will not be good when you are hunting bigger mobs that regenaring their HP fast. In that case it could be better with a weapon that have higher damge/sec even it that weapon give you a lower damage/pec, because you earn that money back by killing the mob faster.
 
Dmg/pec doesn't matter only if your bank have issued to you a life-term interest-free credit.

Being eco doesn't mean to have better loot, it means to be able to do more with the same amount of money, having more loot in the end.
 
Neil Stockton said:
(...)Your loot return is directly proportional to the amount of damage done to the mob. So you will get the highest return for your money if you use an economical setup. There are a lot of contradictory loot theories, and few people adequately test their theories, so you will hear a lot of different answers(...)
Click to expand...

..And yours is also just that, a theory. I have a completley different theory, and it has nothing to do with amount of damage done what so ever.
 
Eco will help you hunt longer, but I have noticed no difference between when I use an eco setup and when I use an un-eco set up(except how long I can hunt)
 
Imo, it doesn't directly, but you could ofc "translate" it to dmg/pec,
dmg/sec or whatever wanted.
I think it's more importent to find a balance in interactions with said
object. You need to try setups out, statistics from a chart will not
help too much, but it also depends on what you are out for.
Even thou' I have tested a s***load of setups, some for shorter periods
of time and some for a longer period, I do know these are still just
theories. As long as I don't have it confirmed from the system with
hard facts on paper, everything are theories until it I do get right info.

Remember, every interaction with a weapon vs mob, has linear cost...
it's just the HP reduction that has a difference per interaction. ;)
 
Corey 'Greyfox' said:
Eco will help you hunt longer, but I have noticed no difference between when I use an eco setup and when I use an un-eco set up(except how long I can hunt)
Click to expand...

Do you have same skill- and profstand-progress with both?

I do have a slower progress when hunting eco, so in the end,
to get to a certain level, the cost will be similar, but it will
take me way longer time hunting eco-style... ;)
 
I think it dose but its less then .5% spread over all weapons not including markup for limited items. saying the worst dmg/pec wep Vs. best dmg/pec wep are returning loot with a .5% difference.
 
BattleAxe said:
Does damage to PEC matter or not?
Click to expand...

No.

Actually it matters in two cases:
- eco setup = same total loot, more mobs killed with same cost, faster missions
- uneco setup = same total loot, bigger globals, bigger items, better markups

Take your pick. Also, I get more loot when hunting with a Jester compared to an Opalo, so I say you should investigate your assumptions.
 
To the OP, yes it does matter, but in no way can we give a confirmed way of exactly how it works.
Everything is theorys, tons of testing has been done and because the game is not constand for loot its hard to prove anything.

Unless EU tells us how everything works behind the scenes we simply dont know.


However, more eco setups let you kill more monsters for the same ammount of ped.

Take it how you want, you have to decide what you want to beleive and go with it.
 
BattleAxe said:
Hey,

I recently had a debate with someone else on the actual importance of damage to PEC while hunting. I said it mattered, he said it didn't. I'll give my side, then his, then you can give yours. :)

My side: Damage to PEC matters, because, while hunting, you want to do as much damage as possible, for as little PEC as possible. Thus it's best to use weapons that cost the least possible PEC, while doing the most possible damage. Something which directly correlates with your skill level. i.e. You don't want to use a Jester D-3 when your level 0, because you'll miss a lot; meaning you'll get, as sometimes it may hit, a very small damage to PEC. But if you use a maxed opalo, you're damage to PEC becomes much higher.

His side: Damage to PEC doesn't matter. To think it does is like saying it's silly to use amps while mining, because it costs more per drop. -- At least, that's the gist of what I saw him type. Maybe he'll post a reply and further his side.

So, what do you all think? Does damage to PEC matter or not?

Thank you,

BA
Click to expand...

Didn't you offer a mentor service?
 
BattleAxe said:
Hey,

I recently had a debate with someone else on the actual importance of damage to PEC while hunting. I said it mattered, he said it didn't. I'll give my side, then his, then you can give yours. :)

My side: Damage to PEC matters, because, while hunting, you want to do as much damage as possible, for as little PEC as possible. Thus it's best to use weapons that cost the least possible PEC, while doing the most possible damage. Something which directly correlates with your skill level. i.e. You don't want to use a Jester D-3 when your level 0, because you'll miss a lot; meaning you'll get, as sometimes it may hit, a very small damage to PEC. But if you use a maxed opalo, you're damage to PEC becomes much higher.

His side: Damage to PEC doesn't matter. To think it does is like saying it's silly to use amps while mining, because it costs more per drop. -- At least, that's the gist of what I saw him type. Maybe he'll post a reply and further his side.

So, what do you all think? Does damage to PEC matter or not?

Thank you,

BA
Click to expand...

There is tons of diffrent theorys out there, like bigger gun better chance of globel or more damage to armour better loot (so he sweat artox). At the end of the day there is just as many theorys as there as there is loot is crap threads. You will find your own way with what makes you happy, but that why will be wrong to the person your hunting next to.
 
Az Bloodz said:
Didn't you offer a mentor service?
Click to expand...

If a mentor has to know 100% of gamemechanism I guess MA can shut down mentorsystem again. :D ;)
People will teach others based on their knowledge, even thou' very, very few really
knows how it works. :)
 
Joat said:
If a mentor has to know 100% of gamemechanism I guess MA can shut down mentorsystem again. :D ;)
People will teach others based on their knowledge, even thou' very, very few really
knows how it works. :)
Click to expand...

Judging by his latest threads... I still think a mentor should have some experience beyond how to fire a gun, drop a probe or oprating a crafting machine. I just hate all the inexperienced mentors going after the rewards and leaving the major part of the work to the society the disciple is joining.
 
it matters, but not as much as some think or raw numbers would make you believe. staying on the field longer is the mian beneft, though at times thats a disadvantage too.
 
BattleAxe said:
So, what do you all think? Does damage to PEC matter or not?
Click to expand...
It's not a matter of thinking, it's a matter of knowing.

I really hope you're not mentoring someone.

Joat said:
If a mentor has to know 100% of gamemechanism I guess MA can shut down mentorsystem again. :D ;)
People will teach others based on their knowledge, even thou' very, very few really
knows how it works. :)
Click to expand...
This isn't "100% of gamemechanism". It's on the same level as telling your disciple to not bomb without moving.
 
Cerberus said:
It's not a matter of thinking, it's a matter of knowing.

I really hope you're not mentoring someone.


This isn't "100% of gamemechanism". It's on the same level as telling your disciple to not bomb without moving.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but so many "knows" how EU works, but can't even understand EULA,
so my answer were that non of us can be sure that anyone is right. ;)
Way too many "Knows it all, but zero knowledge of it" I guess... :)
 
After using imk2 and ml35-ml35me+evil for extensive periods and recording avg tt returns, i cant say i saw a noticable difference on avg daily-weekly returns. Plus when i decayed a modlr32 limited down to tt, it didnt produce anything better in longterm tt return.
 
Joat said:
If a mentor has to know 100% of gamemechanism I guess MA can shut down mentorsystem again. :D ;)
People will teach others based on their knowledge, even thou' very, very few really
knows how it works. :)
Click to expand...

I know how it works. You play they take a cut:smoke:
 
yet AGAIN another thread about this..:rolleyes:
Im gonna use big letters and paint some words to catch your attention.:yay:

"DMG/PEC does not matter UNLESS you want to do missions." - Lootius, 2000 BC :wise:
EVERYONE else who says its otherwise is dumb and needs to get their facts right. :wise:
Why am I saying this? I did this test below, and you should too!:)

SIMPLE TEST:yeah, you better wanna do this one guys..
0.
(You need, rough 150PED for ammo+weapon+amp)

1.
Slap this amp http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Attachment&id=10 (full TT)
to this weapon http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&id=265 (or heck anything else with low dmg)
You will get a warning that you are using far better amp than the weapon.Ignore this.:silly2:

2.
Go hunt something you know how loots and is low-noob mob (like exa,combibo,snable,bery)

3.
See the MASSIVE boost in loot + See the MU stuff in loot (which depends on mob ofc)

The rule is simple as that:
money spend on kill = outcome loot:wise:

By this test you basically increase the kill value of a mob
By then, more questions come up, like why is stuff so expensive MU wise? idk, players set it by that


((FURTHEMORE:I say mining works almost same way.
You put amps on finders, thus increase the bomb value, thus increase the outcome deposit sizes.
But there are other things involved also (like some ores cant be amped much and so on...), which are rather for mining forum and not here))


+rep if you find this post WORTHY of a +rep
 
In my opinion dmg/sec and reload is all that matters to me. Reload is everything to what makes me pic something as a weapon.

slow reload means slower to switch to fap. If a mob can hit you twice or three times in a reload it just gets you killed easyer and you gotta fap way more.

I dont belive in dmg/pec and all that eco stuff

it's all about speed of kills that matters all the eco stuff is all factored in to loot in my opionion, which is why i get some great loot when using MF chips a lot of the time.
 
RexDameon said:
In my opinion dmg/sec and reload is all that matters to me. Reload is everything to what makes me pic something as a weapon.

slow reload means slower to switch to fap. If a mob can hit you twice or three times in a reload it just gets you killed easyer and you gotta fap way more.
Click to expand...

Good thing they invented armors...........................
 
mrproper said:
No.

Actually it matters in two cases:
- eco setup = same total loot, more mobs killed with same cost, faster missions
- uneco setup = same total loot, bigger globals, bigger items, better markups

Take your pick. Also, I get more loot when hunting with a Jester compared to an Opalo, so I say you should investigate your assumptions.
Click to expand...

Well what are you suggesting..that he should grab a Jester and go hunt with that?
I want to see some outcomes of that really then.
 
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