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explosive bps unbalanced and needs nerf

Rocket192 said:
The gameplay needs to be deeper than fuzzy pets, mission grinding, holiday events, and mindless clicking of explosives IV and strongboxes. The game won't survive in its current state.. which probably explains MA dumping all of their resources into compets to buy them some funding and time to fix the game if they ever get around to it and if it can even be fixed at this point.
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And sorry to add you forgot about MA now selling off the EU platform as well. What I found funny but disturbing as well was the only feedback we ever got from our CEO of MindArk was over the sale of the platform. Also I did feel as if I did get an ATH since I did get the CEO of MindArk to reply to a message here. But all that aside something is going on here and I hope Compets isn't MA answer.
 
OZtwo said:
And sorry to add you forgot about MA now selling off the EU platform as well.
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This is nothing new.....

They've been 'selling it off' since forever.

They tried selling buildings within EU to RL Banks when they introduced the player owned banks plus the building that used to be in pre-cry Port Atlantis(dont even recall the name,was an online game chat/video company).

Licensing is all they're doing these days and that's very different but that's also been happening for many many years.

They tried licensing the platform to the chinese for a shopping planet,They tried Licensing the platform to NASA,they tried licensing the platform to the ESA,They now license/sell/provide access to Entropia Universe to other studios (planet Partners) and now they are licensing the platform to a casino and they will likely continue to do more if the opportunity comes up.

Did I forget any? Probably.

They aren't 'selling off' anything,the closest they came to that was trying to sell Calypso to another studio(SEE) which then turned into the CLD's we have now-essentially selling Calypso to the playerbase instead-but they've been selling pieces of it to players since the very first LA sale and its been a pretty healthy slice of income for them.

None of this is new and the more people they license it to the better as its income for MA and that can't be a bad thing as long as they don't go and buy another castle with it.

There is an important distinction between selling/licensing access to the Universe and licensing the use of the platform and concept only.


But again this is all off topic and has nothing to do with Exp BP's.
 
http://www.entropiaplanets.com/wiki/AuctionTracker

This is what explosives have started to do to the playerbase and the economy..

I realize this is mainly user-submitted and there are some gaps, but the fact that the auction is lower more frequently now than it has ever been is indication of a problem. And I ironically the last ping of the pages prior to 9/4/2015 was January of 2014, but even then pages were consistently around the 1000 mark even during summer months..

What we have now is just sad and continuing to get more sad.
 
Rocket192 said:
http://www.entropiaplanets.com/wiki/AuctionTracker

This is what explosives have started to do to the playerbase and the economy..

I realize this is mainly user-submitted and there are some gaps, but the fact that the auction is lower more frequently now than it has ever been is indication of a problem. And I ironically the last ping of the pages prior to 9/4/2015 was January of 2014, but even then pages were consistently around the 1000 mark even during summer months..

What we have now is just sad and continuing to get more sad.
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HAHAHAHAHHA man you have to send MA this ... i will show it to bertha tonight .... but its too late anyway thats rings thats ./.. ..../../ :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
dobrinocb said:
HAHAHAHAHHA man you have to send MA this ... i will show it to bertha tonight .... but its too late anyway thats rings thats ./.. ..../../ :laugh::laugh::laugh:
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Anyone that's been around a while can peek at any section of the auction for a few seconds and immediately see that it's a fraction of the past. Seriously depressing. I used to enjoy browsing the auction's diverse selection. The economy has lost all its robustness. It's pathetic.

Waiting for some smartass MA apologist to comment and tell us how compet is gonna fix everything.
 
Graph looks bad but not having data for 21 months makes this heavily misleading. Rocktropia economy is done with shops and hand to hand trades these days. The invention of the trade channel means less reliance on auction.. and in rock, ark specifically.. there is heavy use of shops. Without data during these times, you can't make any nonbiased conclusion.
 
atomicstorm said:
Graph looks bad but not having data for 21 months makes this heavily misleading. Rocktropia economy is done with shops and hand to hand trades these days. The invention of the trade channel means less reliance on auction.. and in rock, ark specifically.. there is heavy use of shops. Without data during these times, you can't make any nonbiased conclusion.
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Yup that is a big flaw.
Also
2015. CLD payout for 40 weeks have been slightly higher than 2014 first 40 weeks... this also shows that EXP bps havent killed the economy :D
 
whiteknut said:
Yup that is a big flaw.
Also
2015. CLD payout for 40 weeks have been slightly higher than 2014 first 40 weeks... this also shows that EXP bps havent killed the economy :D
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CLD payouts are a result of the amount of TT cycled in game, and has absolutely zero reflection on the state of the economy.

I would imagine something like 15-20% of the CLD payouts alone come from clicking explosives right now, hence the bump from ~3 ped to ~4 ped right now.. without explosive bps, we might be able to draw a correlation between the auction pages and the CLD payouts from 2012-13, which were the same if not better than what they are now...
So without explosive bps would we see something like ~2.5ped/week from CLDs? The though of that is damn depressing in its own right, and I don't think putting explosive bp band-aids on the state of the economy is good, nor will it last.

atomicstorm said:
Graph looks bad but not having data for 21 months makes this heavily misleading. Rocktropia economy is done with shops and hand to hand trades these days. The invention of the trade channel means less reliance on auction.. and in rock, ark specifically.. there is heavy use of shops. Without data during these times, you can't make any nonbiased conclusion.
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Yes I do realize the graph is missing A LOT of data.. which is why I'm going to take it upon myself to update it once a week and then we'll see if we have some consistency through December, because everyone knows oct-apr are the busiest months in EU.

And I know that the trade channel and hand-hand trading will definitely affect it somewhat...
However I don't think the p-2-p trading increase can even feasibly be responsible for the 250-300 auction page drop on its own.
 
Gewitter said:
Summarizing the all, I believe that I hear:

1. Whining of traders, who are unhappy fall in prices of resources and items. Spit on them, they make money out of thin air, just on our gaming.
2. Disgruntled crafters, who earned money, selling amplifiers for miners. MU is falling down. They will have to adapt. It is a fact.
3. Disgruntled miners who saw a drop MU of resources. Perhaps, but cheaper amplifiers should solve this problem.

I can say only one thing. I am also a miner and crafter, and I happy with everything. I'm not a speculator, and falling prices for all and everything suits me, as it reduces my costs for play.
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Let me correct that for you:
Falling prices all around is a result of people quitting, and taking your precious little game with them.
Traders help keep prices stable because people who want item x are not always on.
You only think of yourself here, and low markup on resources from miners means that the economy is unhealthy, and thus you are just pushing the game towards a fiery end.

1) Trading is part of the game. Don't like it? Chip out, and spit on yourself. As a side comment, the traders are not whining about lowering of resource cost: it creates greater fluctuation and instability which causes MORE profit for traders. You're only feeding it.

2) The crafters often did NOT earn money. They did NOT make their money back on their blueprints in many cases, residue prices were higher so material cost was higher, etc. Everyones losing here, and you just think you're a special one here that deserves everything piss cheap at the cost of everyone else, where you magically think everyone else is profiting off you when in fact most are losing. You brag about not caring who else loses money but yourself, yet you cry that traders make money. Double standard much, or perhaps you're just driven by greed and contribute less to the community than those who aren't?

3) Cheaper amplifiers results in larger volumes of ped turned over in x amount of time, while paying a higher markup. The greater resources available while nanocubes cause much fewer resources to be ever used, results in not the problem being solved, but the entire problem itself. Look at it. The same amount of people can go out, lose more ped to mindark in the same amount of time, and come in with nothing but the TT awaiting them as the markup on all the ores that you're mining amped go to shit since nobody wants to use them.

You are merely praising a 'playstyle' you're experiencing that is purely bad that might seem 'nice' to you in the short term, but as everything collapses around you you'll be back here whining the other way in a couple months I feel.:wise:
 
hottygurl said:
You only think of yourself here
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Too many bla-bla-bla :laugh:

Easy answer to all. I'm always think ONLY about myself here.
And I've seen in a coffin your confidence in prices.
Adapt or die.
I adapted.
GL to negrepping me again :)
 
hottygurl said:
Let me correct that for you:
Falling prices all around is a result of people quitting, and taking your precious little game with them.
Traders help keep prices stable because people who want item x are not always on.
You only think of yourself here, and low markup on resources from miners means that the economy is unhealthy, and thus you are just pushing the game towards a fiery end.

1) Trading is part of the game. Don't like it? Chip out, and spit on yourself. As a side comment, the traders are not whining about lowering of resource cost: it creates greater fluctuation and instability which causes MORE profit for traders. You're only feeding it.

2) The crafters often did NOT earn money. They did NOT make their money back on their blueprints in many cases, residue prices were higher so material cost was higher, etc. Everyones losing here, and you just think you're a special one here that deserves everything piss cheap at the cost of everyone else, where you magically think everyone else is profiting off you when in fact most are losing. You brag about not caring who else loses money but yourself, yet you cry that traders make money. Double standard much, or perhaps you're just driven by greed and contribute less to the community than those who aren't?

3) Cheaper amplifiers results in larger volumes of ped turned over in x amount of time, while paying a higher markup. The greater resources available while nanocubes cause much fewer resources to be ever used, results in not the problem being solved, but the entire problem itself. Look at it. The same amount of people can go out, lose more ped to mindark in the same amount of time, and come in with nothing but the TT awaiting them as the markup on all the ores that you're mining amped go to shit since nobody wants to use them.

You are merely praising a 'playstyle' you're experiencing that is purely bad that might seem 'nice' to you in the short term, but as everything collapses around you you'll be back here whining the other way in a couple months I feel.:wise:
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Love them or hate them, traders are important for the stability and fluidity of the economy. These days there is not much money in trading. It's a lot of hard work for very little reward. Things are not going in a favorable direction for anyone. Except maybe Gewitter :cool:
 
ZPF said:
Things are not going in a favorable direction for anyone. Except maybe Gewitter :cool:
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lol

You just have to be like a chameleon ;)
And you will always succeed
 
The issue that i have experienced is that before expl IV i would have enough things sold by start of play the following day to turn over ped again in whatever i was doing, mark ups in general would cushion against tt loss if i sold smart.

Now i am finding it takes days to recover/sell enough to do a worthwhile run on anything, sales are significantly slower and mark ups so low in general due to lack of demand. Especially mining has been hit hardest, most of the amp crafters turned to expl IV bp so lowering demand for cald/gazz etc etc.

So sure cld returns are up due to turnover on explosive bp's but unless mats are cycled through it ties up hunters,miners, crafters due to lack of turnover ped to continue (mine,hunt, buy guns/amps/tools).

What the answer is i don't know, but for myself at least i have so much ped tied up in stuff that sells at a pace that lowers play time. Sure i can depo to hunt/mine/craft more stuff that isn't selling; but tbh can't see the point in getting more stuff at this time that will just sit in a pile slowly diminishing.
 
Norbert said:
The issue that i have experienced is that before expl IV i would have enough things sold by start of play the following day to turn over ped again in whatever i was doing, mark ups in general would cushion against tt loss if i sold smart.

Now i am finding it takes days to recover/sell enough to do a worthwhile run on anything, sales are significantly slower and mark ups so low in general due to lack of demand. Especially mining has been hit hardest, most of the amp crafters turned to expl IV bp so lowering demand for cald/gazz etc etc.

So sure cld returns are up due to turnover on explosive bp's but unless mats are cycled through it ties up hunters,miners, crafters due to lack of turnover ped to continue (mine,hunt, buy guns/amps/tools).

What the answer is i don't know, but for myself at least i have so much ped tied up in stuff that sells at a pace that lowers play time. Sure i can depo to hunt/mine/craft more stuff that isn't selling; but tbh can't see the point in getting more stuff at this time that will just sit in a pile slowly diminishing.
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Yup, horrible time to be a miner, horrible time to be a crafter, a lot of hunters seem to be complaining as well. I wonder what things are going to look like a year from now?
 
ZPF said:
Yup, horrible time to be a miner, horrible time to be a crafter, a lot of hunters seem to be complaining as well. I wonder what things are going to look like a year from now?
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I just hope MA have their eye on the ball with this, i love EU and the concept, playerbase etc etc. Just at the moment my play time has been reduced by the current status quo, and not really through choice but demand for resources and current economy state. I trade a little but 90%+ of what i sold/sell is what i have gathered through activities (mine/craft/hunt).

Just something seems very wrong with the in-game economy at the moment (not only myself noticing/experiencing), and i hope that the devs are on the case.
 
Gewitter said:
You are wrong



You are wrong



They always complain ;)
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Maybe you could expand on your rationale, sure if i buy cld or whatever expl IV props up returns short term (until people move away from expl IV). Less sales in auction and churn of in game ped affects all, miners to continue mining, hunters to hunt, crafters to sell to hunters and miners.

Explosive IV does harm tt-craft-tt-craft, everthing bought from tt to click ties up ped in "stock" that could have been cycled in game.

I could just throw out un-thought out short comments, but unless you can substantiate your claims via debate then sorry it just makes you sound like a flat earther.

I have only written about what i personally am experiencing in-game at the moment, but if you are doing well then all the best and hope it stays that way :).

But hey we are wrong your right, i believe you :)
 
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Gewitter said:
You are wrong



You are wrong



They always complain ;)
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It's still possible to profit. But nothing like it was a few years ago. Unamped with 70% TT return I could still break even. Now I am lucky to break even @ 90% returns after MU.
 
I still think MA has a backwards idea of how to make money from the playerbase.

Sure explosive BPs increase turnover, decrease hunting and mining markups, and stagnate auction sales.

All of this results in players needing to deposit more, more often. This is great for a temporary solution, which is obvious considering MA had their first profitable year in quite some time. This is not sustainable though.

As many players here have already mentioned, more players are quitting, new players are joining, but their not the long-term committed depositors that the game needs. In my experience with new players, they'll join, depo $100, do some hunting/mining/crafting, do the math, and then realize there's no way to make their money last or break even, so they quit and never come back.

The economy world wide sucks more dick than it did 10 years ago, that's a fact that MA needs to live with. Draining the possible player base of their money and having them quickly turn away from EU for good is a terrible practice. This is especially true when more long-time players are selling out.

I just hope something changes soon.
 
Norbert said:
Maybe you could expand on your rationale, sure if i buy cld or whatever expl IV props up returns short term (until people move away from expl IV). Less sales in auction and churn of in game ped affects all, miners to continue mining, hunters to hunt, crafters to sell to hunters and miners.

Explosive IV does harm tt-craft-tt-craft, everthing bought from tt to click ties up ped in "stock" that could have been cycled in game.

I could just throw out un-thought out short comments, but unless you can substantiate your claims via debate then sorry it just makes you sound like a flat earther.

I have only written about what i personally am experiencing in-game at the moment, but if you are doing well then all the best and hope it stays that way :).

But hey we are wrong your right, i believe you :)
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I am willing to understand the anger of those who earned thousands of dollars per a month in the past, and it has now become possible only hundreds of dollars (I not made a reservation). Mining and crafting is still profitable, with a possibility to earn from 200 to 1000 usd/month (with about 4-5 thousands (USD, not PED) in turnover). Ways to profit is now a little more difficult, than some time ago. This is difference, but if you cannot move from your old method, you will dead here in finance.
Hunting... I don't know...there is so many hunters, so I think this profession have rights to whine :)
I already sold out all my UL hunting gear and I don't have plans to buy it again.

Actually, I believe that all the changes in the game are intended to reduce the MU on all items, and especially on the UL. But this is IMO :). I know (or I think, I know :)), why MA does it, but I'm not going to explain to you why. If you're smart enough, you'll understand.
 
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Rocket192 said:
As many players here have already mentioned, more players are quitting, new players are joining, but their not the long-term committed depositors that the game needs. In my experience with new players, they'll join, depo $100, do some hunting/mining/crafting, do the math, and then realize there's no way to make their money last or break even, so they quit and never come back.
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At the end I think this is what MA is shooting for. Finding a way to not have so many old time players in game who don't really need to deposit. Not sure if this will work..but we are seeing changes and from the looks of it..MA is moving away from the RCE theme sorry to say. Time will tell but lets hope all will be good - yes as it will.
 
OZtwo said:
..MA is moving away from the RCE theme sorry to say. Time will tell but lets hope all will be good - yes as it will.
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exactly thats the problem..
why play EU if there is no RCE? let's be honest without RCE this game sucks...
 
Magnus Mag said:
exactly thats the problem..
why play EU if there is no RCE? let's be honest without RCE this game sucks...
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Yep so true but sad. I will never stop debating about Pirates but I have given up hope debating about these issues since the new player base likes what changes are taking place and well can't really debating them. Mostly also why I'm saying MA will do more and more to remove RCE since they are finding that they are making more money and the player base seems to like it.

Also hate to say it but this could be the big bang effect.
 
Gewitter said:
I am willing to understand the anger of those who earned thousands of dollars per a month in the past, and it has now become possible only hundreds of dollars (I not made a reservation). Mining and crafting is still profitable, with a possibility to earn from 200 to 1000 usd/month (with about 4-5 thousands (USD, not PED) in turnover). Ways to profit is now a little more difficult, than some time ago. This is difference, but if you cannot move from your old method, you will dead here in finance.
Hunting... I don't know...there is so many hunters, so I think this profession have rights to whine :)
I already sold out all my UL hunting gear and I don't have plans to buy it again.

Actually, I believe that all the changes in the game are intended to reduce the MU on all items, and especially on the UL. But this is IMO :). I know (or I think, I know :)), why MA does it, but I'm not going to explain to you why. If you're smart enough, you'll understand.
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Good post :)

At least now i understand your side of things, and yes perhaps all is as MA intended. However any economy requires consumption and changes that have been made previous to the "intended" mark up drop seem to be against that idea.

First came shrapnel which common belief was to cut supply of oils,hides, paints etc in an attempt to raise mark up of the hunters loot that was left and not ammo/shrapnel. Effectively cutting "supply" side of things and i guess hoping demand would do the rest.

Then of course came explosive bp IV which has done the exact opposite to the shrapnel vu, cutting demand for hunted/mined/crafted(components). :scratch2:

I'm not angry, just perplexed as to why it was done, and still get by in game just takes longer to raise ped from auction as people become auction retentive (ped held in auction and not flowing). Also there are some area's mining where profit is still possible, ignisium area in ark underground for example (until is somehow rebalanced and igni drops from everywhere :))

Just i can't see how cutting demand in game economy is good for anyone really. As for lowering UL item mark up i guess could be a perception thing they after changing to the people outside, after all if an item loses mu or gains is nothing to MA, other players pay that so doesn't affect MA liabilities.
 
Wow.

This has been going on since january?

I did wonder why every third global and half the hoflist is explosive projectiles.
 
Meg said:
Wow.

This has been going on since january?

I did wonder why every third global and half the hoflist is explosive projectiles.
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About that yes. I think most of us had hoped it was temporary and would be changed.

Mindark has to reduce the cost to play and some of that pain is the markup on items. We all know what price some items go for are absurd. People paying more than the price of a new car for some items. And while that is the stance I consider with the devaluation, you see on the flip side where items are being made available by mindark at similar prices.. equus, mod chips.. they aren't the price of new cars but a serious expenditure... and so that can't be the complete reason why.
 
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Norbert said:
after all if an item loses mu or gains is nothing to MA, other players pay that so doesn't affect MA liabilities.
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He-he, this is very-very-VERY important thing. You are on the right way, think more ... MA will be in profit if any item lost half of their MU during 1-3 month (maybe year).

Actually, I did not wanted to talk, but...we are not able to change anything. Important! All written below is IMO!

Imagine:
You sold a set of armor for 20000 PED and bought EP 4 BP. You lose 10% in the first run, 10% in the second run, and so on. But to be able buy your equipment, someone paid money to MA (20000 PED depo). You've spent recieved money on gambling, ok :). Your right. But due to new MA strategy, armor fell in price by 3,000 ped for the couple of months. This means that the new owner of the armor will not be able to sell it for 20k, but only for the 17k. This means that 3000 ped goes directly to MA (reducing the amount of their real money deposit coverage), not counting the fact that you lost money on EP 4 BP. I think this is excellent idea, but only for MA, and not for some players, who made mistakes and not adapted to dynamic EU.

The conclusion is simple. Amount of MU in circulation ingame decreases each day.
It mostly influences the profits of those who are accustomed to receive it.
And they whine in this and similar threads.

Yes, and I can tell you one more thing ;). All that can not generate passive income, will soon depreciate (except several good combination of items/skills/knowing maybe). I think soon you can not be able to sell your Shadow, Mod FAP and UL mining amps. Because ROI for these items will be 10-50-100 years (due to decrease MU amount), if you want to recieve current price for these items.

This is the end. But not the end for EU. End of Project Entropia. EU will rise, but this is slightly different game.
 
Not really soon. It already is.
 
atomicstorm said:
Not really soon. It already is.
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I sold out everything I wanted (all my potential dangerous actives). Now I'm adapted...

For others: Please stop whining. It happens.
 
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