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AkiranBlade

AkiranBlade

Slayer
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Posts
9,424
Location
UK
Society
Shaolin
Avatar Name
Akira AkiranBlade Kurusowa
Hi all,

As some of you are aware, I have been suffering with an intermittent looting bug which happens just as I loot certain mobs. I believe, due to the frequency of globals I had been receiving that I these were my HoFs and that the developers have changed something in the HoF client-server comms code.

Now, this is my supposition, and without proper testing I cannot prove it, but due to my looting around the same time it would indicate that this was the case.

In any case I sent a support ticket to the support team to investigate this, and as you would expect, despite being a heavy depositor I have basically been given the cold shoulder with regard to my problem.

Support even had the cheek to say that what I was experiencing was NOT a bug! Something that wasn't there in the previous VU that causes a critical program error and crashes the client is NOT a bug????

Someone needs to kick some arses at MA, and if no-one is going to do it from MA I may even go over there and do it myself as this is totally unacceptable behaviour from a vendor of any type.

Below for you scrutiny is the support thread. Some of my text you will have to forgive due to the annoying nature of this problem.

And I hope this thread is seen as a tool to out the incredibly poor support and support policy currently in place, and not as a flameathon and I ask all that have comments on this to "keep it clean" with respect to flaming MA. I want to continue my time in EU and all I seek to do here is force MA to get their house in order.
 
Support Case said:
Case 85566 History
13 Jul 2006 AkiranBlade:
Hi,

I seem to be getting a recurring problem when I go to loot mobs. It's happen twice. Just as the loot win is supposed to pop up I get a critical/program termination error. All I here is the loot win opening sound but the GUI doesn't render the loot win and I'm immediaely kicked out.

I sincerely hope that the loot code doesn't expect a client call back first as this could be happening for particular types of loots, like HoFs. As it's only happen twice in 5 days of hardcore hunting 2 times for me to HoF wouldn't be totally unrealistic and therefore it's reasonable to assume that this could have been the case, and the HoF was prevented from going through due to this bug.

I would like to rule out that it isn't a bug linked to HoF'ing only (as you know the HoF animation is different to a global) especially as I could have looted the Unique Green Atrox Egg and was prevented from doing so perhaps. I would be happy to test for a low value HoF at your leisure, if you can force one that is.

There were no other special circumstances for me to draw any other conclusions from the symptoms, and the HoF animation may be to blame. Of course if the procedure dictates that the loot is decided regardless of what the client is doing then this obviously isn't the case.

Regards,

AkiranBlade

15 Jul 2006 AkiranBlade:
This has just happened a third. I want confirmation that this is not due to the HoF animation otherwise this would mean I'm owed 3 HoF's due to your client bug.

I want a resolution to this or I will have no choice but to cease my activities within Entropia Universe and withdraw all my funds.

16 Jul 2006 AkiranBlade:
This has just happened again on looting a Champion Feffoid this time. I really need this investigating.

16 Jul 2006 AkiranBlade:
Im going to use a different machine which doesn't have SLi nVidia cards in it. I've already tried with SLi on and off and I get the problem in both configurations.

If I manage to HoF on the other machine then I will want to test my gaming machine in a control environment, when you finally get back to me.

25 Jul 2006 AkiranBlade:
OK, this has just happened yet again while crafting Armour.

You need to get back to me on this please, so we can do a controlled test and check to see what situations this occurs in.

Please get back to me soon on this. This really isn't fair that I'm being denied HoFs due to a bug, If that is the case.

30 Jul 2006 AkiranBlade:
This has just happened again as I went to loot an Atrox Alpha, I'm getting fed up with this now. When are you going to look into this?

01 Aug 2006 MindArk Support:
Hi,

We are sorry for the delayed reply, the workload on Support is currently high.

What you are reported is highly odd, especially since you have experienced the same issue from different computers.

Has it happened on other occasions than the ones you describe above? How often do you experience CTDs when not trying to loot?

Regards,
Entropia Support

01 Aug 2006 AkiranBlade:
NO, I couldn't use the other machine for long as the graphics card in it is not really up to the job and I get a lot of stuttering with the engine, so the issue is local to one machine with regard to looting.

It has only ever happened once when I was running back to a tp and no looting was occuring or had occured recently.

It would be really helpful to specify a time to do a small test on this, if anything to put my mind at rest. I seem to have shovelled many $'s into skilling and hunting and for little return lately.

This is the only way I can logically see that we can progress this at this time. I must express that this was not happening before this VU so I strongly suggest looking at the code regarding looting and perhaps more specifically the code which is related to delivering a HoF to the client.

My next log in will be on Wednesday, as Im not at home tonight.

I know you're dealing with support cases sequentially but please look into my FAP-90 disappearance A.S.A.P as it's affecting my activities within EU.

Many thanks,

AkiranBlade

02 Aug 2006 MindArk Support:
Hi,

We have not received any similar reports regarding participants CTDing as soon as they try to loot. We have checked your account and your account history and can not find any irregularities there, all is in order.

We will of course forward this information that you have sent us to the developers and should there be any irregularities, they will be adjusted as soon as possible.

We are not sure what you mean by your suggestion for a test, but as we said we have already checked your account and account history and everything looks fine. Regarding testing your computer, we can not provide such services. If your system and connection meet the requirements well, then that should not be related to this issue.

We will look into to your other support ticket as soon as possible.

Regards,
Entropia Support

02 Aug 2006 AkiranBlade:
The test would merely involve forcing a loot on me whilst hunting that would cause a HoF, just something small in value to get on the HoF list to prove or disprove that it is the HoF logic causing the problem on the client.

If this is to do with HoFs and I've missed out on 6 HoF's so I'm interested to know in what way I'm going to be recompensed for a bug introduced in this VU. Do you not think it is irregular for someone to kill a mob and then disconnect before actually getting any loot, I don't understand how that can not look irregular.

03 Aug 2006 MindArk Support:
Hi,

This is not a general issue and therefore not a bug. Regarding compensation; losses that cannot be verified in our log files can unfortunately not be compensated by MindArk. However, we will forward your information for further investigation to the developers and any irregularities found in the HoF system will be adjusted as soon as possible.
Regards,
Entropia Support

03 Aug 2006 AkiranBlade:
It's obvious something's been changed because I never used to get this in the previous VU.

Can you not run a test when I'm logged in next?

03 Aug 2006 MindArk Support:
Hi,

Unfortunately, we can not perform such a test as you are asking for. However, should any irregularities be found during our developers's tests, they will be adjusted immediately. We really do not have any more information for you in this matter, but should this happen to you again, you are always welcome to file a new support ticket and refer to this one: 85566.

Regards,
Entropia Support
Click to expand...

Enjoy the read
 
Try going hunting in a big team. Take down a load of hogglos or something.

Make sure you are the one who loots each dead mob. Then when you HOF if you're theory is right you will CTD. But the HOF should come up for the other players in the team so then you'd know...
 
I don't personally know anyone that deposits more into this non-casino than you.

MA should look after it's peoples better.
 
Jimmy B said:
Try going hunting in a big team. Take down a load of hogglos or something.

Make sure you are the one who loots each dead mob. Then when you HOF if you're theory is right you will CTD. But the HOF should come up for the other players in the team so then you'd know...
Click to expand...

I've tried, but when I want this to happen for testing, it doesn't appear. But I shall continue to try.
 
Feel for you mate. I don't get this problem 'cos I don't HOF :( Must be something very specific if it is just affecting you (as far as you are aware)

If you want to team hunt and let me do the looting, I will quite happily hand the stuff over at the end :) (Small to medium mobs only :D )

Hope it all gets sorted soon
 
Jimmy B said:
Try going hunting in a big team. Take down a load of hogglos or something.

Make sure you are the one who loots each dead mob. Then when you HOF if you're theory is right you will CTD. But the HOF should come up for the other players in the team so then you'd know...
Click to expand...


That's a good idea. It wouldn't even need to be a big team. Just one other avatar would do it.
 
AkiranBlade said:
I've tried, but when I want this to happen for testing, it doesn't appear. But I shall continue to try.
Click to expand...


Let me know, and we can arrange a HOF hunt :D (With a great deal of luck that is) hehe
 
Euroman said:
Let me know, and we can arrange a HOF hunt :D (With a great deal of luck that is) hehe
Click to expand...

Will do, but I'll be bringing a friend :tongue2:
 
Jimmy B said:
Try going hunting in a big team. Take down a load of hogglos or something.

Make sure you are the one who loots each dead mob. Then when you HOF if you're theory is right you will CTD. But the HOF should come up for the other players in the team so then you'd know...
Click to expand...

I think this is a good idea. I'd be willing to try and see with you. Are you getting globals?
 
AkiranBlade said:
Will do, but I'll be bringing a friend :tongue2:
Click to expand...

Depends on who the friend is... ROFL - Don't want any bad luck charms, so need to be someone with a history of HOFs :D
 
Hi there Akiran...

Have you tried logging in really quickly after your CTD?
I mean... If you CTD BEFORE the client has sent the 'loot mob' message to the server, then the dead mob should still be there.
If you CTD AFTER the 'loot mob' message has been sent to the server, then the dead mob should be gone when you come back, BUT you should have the loot from the mob in the inventory.

Gl with your problem, whatever it turns out to be :)
 
Vedder, what happens is I here the loot win sound as the mob disappears (starts to fade away) and then nothing, graphics crash and I get the termination message box and back to desktop.
 
I should add, that this issue always seems to happen on mobs which are quite high up the maturity scale (Clan Warlords, Champions, Alphas etc etc) which does make me think it's more to do with the type of loot. I get globals fine but not 1 HoF since the Atrox Alpha when the egg thing kicked off.

It also makes me a bit pig sick that this bug happened literally minutes before Tz' got the egg.
 
try this, make a team 2 ppl, then leader takes all (u are the leader) place other avatar in a town, go out and hunt and loot, that way u atleast can see on the other avatar if its a hof/global. GL

and PS MA support ghaaa!!!
 
That's a really shitty bug to have, especially if you are right about it being hof related. If it is a problem with a specific PC then you will probably be able to resolve it yourself quicker than support will although with something this intermittent it could take a while.

Forgive me if you have done a lot of this already but you could try:

- Re-installing video drivers, sound drivers, DirectX etc. Maybe even try an older version of your video drivers.

- Disabling sound.

- Swapping components (if you have any spares) - soundcard, gfx card maybe even NIC.

- Re-installing EU (to rule out any corrupted files)

If nothing else it will give you some further information to throw at MA in another support case :) Hope you get it sorted out soon and let us know if you (or MA) do discover the cause.
 
AkiranBlade said:
It also makes me a bit pig sick that this bug happened literally minutes before Tz' got the egg.
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't think anyone could have possibly killed more coldies than you around that time period. Maybe Tz should hand over the loot to the rightful owner :laugh:

Seriously though, if this turns out to be true ..... imagine the gear you would have now.
 
demoniac said:
That's a really shitty bug to have, especially if you are right about it being hof related. If it is a problem with a specific PC then you will probably be able to resolve it yourself quicker than support will although with something this intermittent it could take a while.

Forgive me if you have done a lot of this already but you could try:

- Re-installing video drivers, sound drivers, DirectX etc. Maybe even try an older version of your video drivers.

- Disabling sound.

- Swapping components (if you have any spares) - soundcard, gfx card maybe even NIC.

- Re-installing EU (to rule out any corrupted files)

If nothing else it will give you some further information to throw at MA in another support case :) Hope you get it sorted out soon and let us know if you (or MA) do discover the cause.
Click to expand...

All I've done is re-installed the client, because I have dual cards and on-board sound there is nothing I can do in that respect really. Also, bear in mind, I never had this before the VU which can only point to something based in software that they have done.
 
acaffrey said:
Seriously though, if this turns out to be true ..... imagine the gear you would have now.
Click to expand...

I imagine it all the time, it makes me more sick. Then I just wish I was around beta again, it's a vicious circle.
 
AkiranBlade said:
All I've done is re-installed the client, because I have dual cards and on-board sound there is nothing I can do in that respect really. Also, bear in mind, I never had this before the VU which can only point to something based in software that they have done.
Click to expand...

directx was upgraded last VU right? could be related to that. did you try to reinstall it?
 
sob said:
directx was upgraded last VU right? could be related to that. did you try to reinstall it?
Click to expand...

I already had DX9c installed for Battlefield 2
 
I sent in a couple of support requests about two weeks ago. Neither was as serious as yours.

Support has not responded. Somehow I doubt they ever will. They are seriously overworked because EU is seriously bugged.

MA needs to clean up the bugs or hire some more support people.

Personally, I'd rather see them clean up the bugs since all the support people do is tell you that there is no problem.

On two occassions I've sent in support requests that were answered and solved within 4 hours. Both of those were issues with depositing.

It is clear that MA puts a very high priority on bugs that cost them money and shows little, if any, interest in those that cost players money.
 
AkiranBlade said:
I already had DX9c installed for Battlefield 2
Click to expand...

allright. im not a gfxsupersoftware expert, and please correct me if im wrong :rolleyes: , but from what i figure when the last VU got installed its started to use DX in a "diffrent way". since DX9c is compatible with older versons (i think :scratch: ) EU would now use DX in a diffrent way compared to the old VU, right? like diffrent dlls difrent rendringstuff ect ect :dunno:
i hope you understand what i mean. its abit busy here at work so im just puking out words here lol. dunno if that made sense or not :silly2:
 
sob said:
allright. im not a gfxsupersoftware expert, and please correct me if im wrong :rolleyes: , but from what i figure when the last VU got installed its started to use DX in a "diffrent way". since DX9c is compatible with older versons (i think :scratch: ) EU would now use DX in a diffrent way compared to the old VU, right? like diffrent dlls difrent rendringstuff ect ect :dunno:
i hope you understand what i mean. its abit busy here at work so im just puking out words here lol. dunno if that made sense or not :silly2:
Click to expand...


I don't believe my install had to do anything on the dx9 front as it was already installed and configured from when I installed Battlefield 2 a year ago. It's been the same ever since. DX9c shouldn't have needed any modification for EU to utilise it.

I may be wrong on this.
 
AkiranBlade said:
All I've done is re-installed the client, because I have dual cards and on-board sound there is nothing I can do in that respect really. Also, bear in mind, I never had this before the VU which can only point to something based in software that they have done.
Click to expand...

I really think it's connected to the drivers and probably not video. the case is, server MA's side does not rethink if you get the loot or not after you click on looting. when that message is sent to server it doesn't matter if you are still ingame or not. if you are, server sends the client the information, which items or ped to show and you see the loot right away. if you get disconnected you always see the loot in your inventory after relogging. remember, there's a 20 second buffer for that ;) so it must be something concerning drivers, maybe sound. and I don't think they made any updates in that area, so they just must have been corrupted lately. well, it's probably difficult to make some long lasting test if you do not have a good friend to switch your computers with but be sure in one thing - MA is absolutely not worried about if you in particular get the global/hof/ath or not, there are much "luckier" avatars running around to worry about :D


J.
 
Airedale said:
It is clear that MA puts a very high priority on bugs that cost them money and shows little, if any, interest in those that cost players money.
Click to expand...

I totally agree at the moment. I've sent Marco a letter about this and my thought ongoing for the future because this kind of lame support methodology is going serve nothing but to hurt their own business in the future, not to mention those running virtual businesses within EU, like NEVERDIE, Deathifier, all land area owners like Akoz and all Hangar owners.
 
Lugzan said:
I really think it's connected to the drivers and probably not video. the case is, server MA's side does not rethink if you get the loot or not after you click on looting. when that message is sent to server it doesn't matter if you are still ingame or not. if you are, server sends the client the information, which items or ped to show and you see the loot right away. if you get disconnected you always see the loot in your inventory after relogging. remember, there's a 20 second buffer for that ;) so it must be something concerning drivers, maybe sound. and I don't think they made any updates in that area, so they just must have been corrupted lately. well, it's probably difficult to make some long lasting test if you do not have a good friend to switch your computers with but be sure in one thing - MA is absolutely not worried about if you in particular get the global/hof/ath or not, there are much "luckier" avatars running around to worry about :D


J.
Click to expand...

It totally depends on the procedure. I mentioned in a post elsewhere about the possibility that loot isn't delievered to the avatars inventory unless some client-server comms have taken place. I must re-iterate that my system made no change AND I've re-installed the client since experiencing this bug and many others seem to HoF without issue. I have to be in a small percentile of SLi card users.

Everything was fine before the VU, if it was a corruption a re-install should have fixed otherwise many others would be experiencing this also.

It has to be based in code change. I just can't see how it could be anything else, other than the slight possibly there is something queer going on with directx 9c.
 
A really good test would be to run a program which keeps logs of which files are being read/write. If at the time of the CTD the HoF animation/sound is loaded you will be sure it really is what you think it is.
 
AkiranBlade said:
I don't believe my install had to do anything on the dx9 front as it was already installed and configured from when I installed Battlefield 2 a year ago. It's been the same ever since. DX9c shouldn't have needed any modification for EU to utilise it.

I may be wrong on this.
Click to expand...

DX9c have been updated a few times since when it was originaly released, latest one is from April 2006.. Try installing that, the url is so damn long Im just gonna tell you to go to www.microsoft.com/downloads/
 
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