Terms and Condition Changes.

Dunno if you all got this newsletter but heres the gist:


Dear Sir/Madam,

In accordance with Paragraph 17 in the Project Entropia Conditions of Use, you, as a Project Entropia participant, is hereby notified about upcoming additions to the Project Entropia Conditions of Use.

The Project Entropia Conditions of Use will be updated with two new entries. Paragraph 6 will include a section regarding transactions and Paragraph 15 will include a section about rumor-mongering.

The Addition to Paragraph 6 is as follows:

'All and any trade with Virtual items, virtual funds, as well as real fund transactions, must be done through MindArk approved procedures. Any such transactions carried out using any non-approved procedure is a violation and can result in a lockdown of any involved account. If you are unsure if a certain transaction is approved or not, you must contact the Project Entropia support for confirmation.'

The reason for this is to increase and ensure security and integrity of the Project Entropia system. Due to a number of 'scams' done using third party transaction methods, we must take steps to make the virtual universe environment as safe as possible.

The Additions to Paragraph 15 is as follows:

'You cannot spread any rumors about MindArk, Project Entropia, and MindArk Staff or Partners, that can be considered potentially damaging, using Project Entropia, IRC or any other public forums, for example a web space.'

The reason for this addition is to avoid malicious individuals to spread unfounded rumors with the intent to fuel discontent and trying to stir up negativity and bad will against Project Entropia and MindArk.

Regards
-Project Entropia Legal Department

Aziphirael said:

'You cannot spread any rumors about MindArk, Project Entropia, and MindArk Staff or Partners, that can be considered potentially damaging, using Project Entropia, IRC or any other public forums, for example a web space.'

Click to expand...

that will never stand up in a court

Aziphirael said:

'You cannot spread any rumors about MindArk, Project Entropia, and MindArk Staff or Partners, that can be considered potentially damaging, using Project Entropia, IRC or any other public forums, for example a web space.'

The reason for this addition is to avoid malicious individuals to spread unfounded rumors with the intent to fuel discontent and trying to stir up negativity and bad will against Project Entropia and MindArk.

Regards
-Project Entropia Legal Department

Click to expand...

Who defines whats rumour and whats not? Sounds like MA just wants to outlaw the forums that doesnt think happy thoughts and is content with the silent nerfs in PE like skills and so on.I call the skill nerf a silent nerf since we dont got exact stats on how much slower it is

Unlocking hidden skills in the 7.5 skillsystem seems very hard since all skills USED (note that I said used,incase MA changed the requirement to unlock) to be a mix of lets say Aim,weapons handling,BLP/LWT,IRD,Combat reflex and pistol/rifle..current skillsystem has halted the skillgains on the sub combat skills so bad that I doubt anyone will unlock for instance Coolness with 1 year of hardcore hunting 500-800peds of ammo per day

Complaining shouldnt be "illegal" either if its somewhat constructive and not only personal insults. If I wanna tell all my friends how bad the loot sucks,whether its on IRC,a forum or the biggest magazine in my country I should be allowed to. It would raise a discussion about PE since its a rare concept which many MMORPG developers consider "wrong" and to addictive

I can go on forever but I know you guys cant focus to long so I end it here

ouch!

no more buying and selling of PEDs, they wish...

Of course people will continue if it takes you 5 months to withdraw PED normally. EDIT: was going to stick idiots on the end, but then i'd be breaking the EULA

lots more to say about this, but then i'd just be moaning.

MA are not saying you cannot have an opinion, what they are saying, is that they will not, and should not, tolerate people who take it upon themselves to make up things about MA because they are unhappy.

And as for the transaction statements, MA are rightly covering thier own ass from bad publicity and making sure people who know no better are protected.

FFS people, grow up a bit and think about it.

Aziphirael said:

The Addition to Paragraph 6 is as follows:

'All and any trade with Virtual items, virtual funds, as well as real fund transactions, must be done through MindArk approved procedures. Any such transactions carried out using any non-approved procedure is a violation and can result in a lockdown of any involved account. If you are unsure if a certain transaction is approved or not, you must contact the Project Entropia support for confirmation.'

The reason for this is to increase and ensure security and integrity of the Project Entropia system. Due to a number of 'scams' done using third party transaction methods, we must take steps to make the virtual universe environment as safe as possible.

Click to expand...

Does this mean that people who sell their PEDS through paypal, paynova or whatever isn't supposed to do that? If so, i was never aware that this was "illegal"

MMORPG.com:
Project Entropia operates a little differently in that it isn’t merely just a broker system of one player selling to another but you actually selling to the player. What is your opinion/stance on the more standard secondary market? Players listing items for sale on ebay or buying/selling through broker companies such as IGE?

Marco Behrmann:
We have the position that the players of Project Entropia are free to use the system as they see fit, as long is the follow the rules of conduct. After all, they are the ones playing Project Entropia and who invest money and time into it, so why should we impose strange rules onto them? One thing to remember though is that any trade activities performed outside the confines of Project Entropia is not guaranteed or secure, and if you get scammed, MA cannot help you. A vast majority of our players realize this and use the tools we supply to them within the virtual universe instead of venturing outside.

Well I suppose they could sue for Libel or Slander, which is one way they could do it. The question is how is Swedish Law setup on this fact, whether its like UK law, where the defendant has to prove their statements was not libel or slander. Or if its like the US where I believe the accuser has to prove that the person libelled or slandered them.

Guess why companies like suing people in the UK

On a more serious note, is the fact they want to ban essentially thrid party transaction like through Paypal and Bank Transfer. Is that a good or bad thing? Not sure really. But its only going to stop I feel, if MA can speed up the withdrawal system.

New EULA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey.
As you prolly have seen there is a new EULA in place for PE..
The two additions to the existing EULA is that we now arent allowed to:

1) Do any transactions outside of MA's system.
2) Say anything bad about MA.


1)
'All and any trade with Virtual items, virtual funds, as well as real fund
transactions, must be done through MindArk approved procedures. Any such
transactions carried out using any non-approved procedure is a violation and can
result in a lockdown of any involved account. If you are unsure if a certain
transaction is approved or not, you must contact the Project Entropia support
for confirmation.'

The reason for this is to increase and ensure security and integrity of the
Project Entropia system. Due to a number of 'scams' done using third party
transaction methods, we must take steps to make the virtual universe environment
as safe as possible.


-------------------------------------
One could argue that its fine that MA decides that we are only allowed to use their system, since its safer... But why arent I allowed to decide if I want to use one or the other system ??? There were a reason why some people used PayPal instead of the ingame withdraw section....
Hmm... There goes our freedom to choose...


2)
'You cannot spread any rumors about MindArk, Project Entropia, and MindArk Staff
or Partners, that can be considered potentially damaging, using Project
Entropia, IRC or any other public forums, for example a web space.'

The reason for this addition is to avoid malicious individuals to spread
unfounded rumors with the intent to fuel discontent and trying to stir up
negativity and bad will against Project Entropia and MindArk.

-----------------------------------------
I can understand why unfounded rumors should be stopped... But who decides what is unfounded and what isent?
Unless a third body, not MA - not the Players, do formal hearings on what is unfounded and what isent I dont see any way we can be sure such rumors arent real... I think its too easy for MA simply to say: "This is unfounded".. And then we arent allowed to discuss it.
There goes our freedom of speach.....


Thoughts?

btw.. I just saw.. its their "comment" that states "unfounded"... the point in the EULA states no such thing about unfounded.. hence.. you can have hard evidence that MA has done soemthing.. but you cant say it to anyone.. since it would be a rumour......

nice one..

actually MA can't really know if you sold something outside of PE, because all they see is a trade with no peds involved.

So they couldn't really prove there was a trade unless one party complains.

Fred sells jon and imp mk2 through paypal. jon is a bit of a scammer so tells MA he was ripped off, MA lock fred because he went outside of PE payment system.

lol..

Now we arent able to sell our peds/items anymore, outside PE..

This meens, That they have 100% control over your money, And if you try to avoid it. They lock your account down + all your money...

that is lame!

maybe this was the surprise

NoBion said:

lol..

Now we arent able to sell our peds/items anymore, outside PE..

This meens, That they have 100% control over your money, And if you try to avoid it. They lock your account down + all your money...

that is lame!

Click to expand...

No...thats not what I read but I'd still contact MA to find out what "approved" means first.

I would like to bring up some points:

• This new EULA doesnt nean MA will act upon those new things - just that they are on list of actions that clearly may lead to locking/banning. (I think most PE players have broken EULA without getting punished.)
• This isnt anything totally new since MA has had rights to lock/ban without any EULA statements before.
• This also can prevent players as well as scammers and those who intentionally try to damage PE or hurt players are "warned" in EULA.

wanda said:

actually MA can't really know if you sold something outside of PE, because all they see is a trade with no peds involved.

So they couldn't really prove there was a trade unless one party complains.

Fred sells jon and imp mk2 through paypal. jon is a bit of a scammer so tells MA he was ripped off, MA lock fred because he went outside of PE payment system.

Click to expand...

could be the other way round:

Fred gets the USD through paypal, and then doesn't trade, MA see's nothing, and jon's screwed.

or he could trade then claim that Jon used that fancy trade bug to cheat him out of his impmk2

actually, MA list several approved payment methods for depositing on their site such as;

paynova
paybycash
game-time.info
bank transfer
"certificate"
credit card

Players could "assume" these methods are also approved for any pe transaction unless told otherwise.

gurkha said:

Fred gets the USD through paypal, and then doesn't trade, MA see's nothing, and jon's screwed.

Click to expand...

Jon can send a copy of the reciept to MA though proving he sent money.

Both players can be locked I guess

wanda said:

Jon can send a copy of the reciept to MA though proving he sent money.

Click to expand...

But MA cant be sure he sent money just for that purpose.

I think MA wants to get rid of those trades because they cant control/monitor them, BUT they will get blamed/hurted when someone gets scammed.

wanda said:

Jon can send a copy of the reciept to MA though proving he sent money.

Both players can be locked I guess

Click to expand...

And item disappears from PE and then there is 1 less imk2 around..since no one can loot one

Brilliant

Essi said:

I think MA wants to get rid of those trades because they cant control/monitor them, BUT they will get blamed/hurted when someone gets scammed.

Click to expand...

isn't it enough to say this though;

One thing to remember though is that any trade activities performed outside the confines of Project Entropia is not guaranteed or secure, and if you get scammed, MA cannot help you.
A vast majority of our players realize this and use the tools we supply to them within the virtual universe instead of venturing outside.

well WTF.... what about those of us who have NO CHOICE but to buy peds through paypal because MA fucked up and wont allow us to deposit through them because our CC verification no longer allows transactions through them?

All of my deposits fail now because of some problem between my verification company and MA... guess i cant deposit then? If thats the case, im outta here...

hooters said:

Does this mean that people who sell their PEDS through paypal, paynova or whatever isn't supposed to do that? If so, i was never aware that this was "illegal"

Click to expand...

It wasen't before today

Gruye said:

well WTF.... what about those of us who have NO CHOICE but to buy peds through paypal because MA fucked up and wont allow us to deposit through them because our CC verification no longer allows transactions through them?

All of my deposits fail now because of some problem between my verification company and MA... guess i cant deposit then? If thats the case, im outta here...

Click to expand...

Well... thats not really an excuse is it. After all it is a problem that you and/or MA should be able to solve quite easily. Just file a support case under deposit... im sure it is the category that has top priority

wanda said:

that will never stand up in a court

Click to expand...

I doubt it will ever get in court.

Gruye said:

All of my deposits fail now because of some problem between my verification company and MA... guess i cant deposit then? If thats the case, im outta here...

Click to expand...

When I deposited the first time my bank locked my CC thinking it was a dodgy transaction and the card was probably stolen

Back to the topic, I hope these changes in EULA regarding third party deals will actually speed up the withdrawal process as MA won't have to check all the strange looking one-way transactions before proceeding with withdrawal (if it ever took place ).

Oh well. Doesnt really affect me. I don't spread rumours about MindArk or their staff...

EXCEPT that Marco has a big red button he can press to get female avatars nekkit

I agree elisa. If MA still take 5 months to give you your money (hey - that aint a rumour - it's a fact - feel free to ask for evidence. I'll just search here and E-P ) then how dare they try and control transaction methods?

It's simple. Not trading outside of the game, means that money stays ingame
Wanna buy that imk? Fine - deposit all that lovely cash via ourselves - so that we can take our percentage - oh, and so that once the cash is ingame (whoever now has it) it'll take forever to withdraw it and so it'll just be spent

Hmmm I suppose I'm risking a ban and lockdown for suggesting something as dubious as that? That's fine. My game login is QZpmietvy34813. I only use FireW0lf in this forum, and nowhere else. Feel free to try and prove otherwise and I'll sue

its nice that MA try to kill the black marcket , but rules and law can not do that.
only way is to make the secure way something that work.
right now , wothdraw is 5month ... this is exactly a good time to puch the player to use back marcket.
and MA dont folow the rule since 5 month is not 90 day.
1) MA need to do their job , that mean pay people when they ask their money in descent time like 15 to 30 day.
2) then they can say its forbiden to use other way and they do not convert any kind of scam.

another time MA start the job by the wrong way.
its good to remove the black marcket , but that not how it should be done.

Well, I just scanned your three pages of bitching and moaning. Not one positive argument. Good job on the pity party guys

No more selling items outside of the system (including PED). It is nice to see MA taking steps to protect its investors as well as stop the bleeding of selling out through other means. I have seen many of you comment that MA is losing cash and hurting the economy by all of the "Pay Pal" sellouts. Well, now they are doing something about it.

Also, the slander thing. This is the first time MA has publicly taken this stance as far as I know. A huge step to try to calm the eternally doscontented, childish PE community. This I feel is a good move for personal reasons. I have always said that if PE fails we the community are to blame. We are the ones witch hunting a perfectly good game. No, not a good game, a great game.

DD