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Phantom Armor - did this happen to you?

MindStar9

MindStar9

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MindStar9
I am rather pissed at the moment, and here's why ... I looked at the stats of the Phantom armor and was rather intrigued. I have Bear at the moment and I use plates depending on what mobs I'm entertaining, but thought the Phantom would be more comprehensive coverage since it does both cold and electric and has a higher impact feature, not to mention an overall nice armor and looks rather hot with my black undergarments. :laugh:

Well ... I was cruising through the auction when I saw female Phantom on sale, so I jumped at the opportunity to get my own, BUT ... there was no harness. I just figured that someone already bought it up and that I would have to wait for another one to appear. Then I remembered in the back of my mind that there was a thread where sets of this armor were being offered, so I sent a PM to the appropriate person to see if I could get a harness made.

This was the reply I got ... someone else is crafting this armor besides the person putting together the sets, but without the harness because they're more expensive to make than the other parts, and then putting the other parts up at auction at a lesser price. I can tell you right now, that based on what the full sets are going for, it was not a lesser price. I was also told that getting a single harness crafted is out of the question because it ruins the business aspect of the process. :scratch2:

Has anyone else had his happen to them? ... AND ... does anyone know if there's another way of being able to get a Phantom (F) harness other than selling the pieces I already have and ordering a set through this person, which was suggested to me btw. I've already invested enough ped in this armor and have to believe that there is a way to be able to get the harness. I don't want to be in the same predicament I'm in at the moment with the Bear and missing the shins, which is absolute :bs:

Your thoughts please! ... and Thank You! :D
 
It's an unfortunate symptom of the fact that the smaller armor pieces require less resources to craft. This can mean that the harness (for example) requires a very rare mineral that isn't needed for the gloves. It's typical EU/MA technique to limit availability of a completed item based on one very rare part: animal DNA parts, looted armor sets, bp sets, etc. Dragon armor, gremlin armor, and probably numerous other armor sets are the same way: the only way to sell a gremlin armor set with any markup is if the rare piece is included unless the buyer doesn't realize that the gloves are the only rare part.

In this case it's a collision of caveat emptor and monopolistic/exclusive sales techniques...and i can't really say either is uncommon in EU.
 
Nothing wrong with this practise, the crafter is just looking out for his best interest. instead off helping the competition ...
 
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Dunn said:
Nothing wrong with this practise, the crafter is just looking out for hios best interest.
Click to expand...

it would be more accurate to say there is nothing illegal about this practice. "wrong" implies morality and there is a great deal wrong with the practice. bascially, it's greed motivated. greed is universally accepted as sin ("something bad"). thus, the practice is unethical.

the manufacturer could easily make an exception. the odd filling in of a set with the more uncommon piece would breed goodwill. it's likely the satisified customer will bring new customers - likely to buy the full set.

instead, in this case, what happens is that the dissatisfied customer remembers the attempt to be expolited and tells all their friends not to deal with the suppiler for anything.
 
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theres nothing wrong with this, its a crafter protecting his market imo. Now dont get me wrong, i know its very frustrating for you.
Your options are limited tho, on the basis that u dont wanna sell the parts u have, the only other option is to try to track down another crafter with a phantom harness bp. I am sure there are others around with the bp... i just dont know who :) lol
 
who is this anonymous crafter with unlimited amount of rugaritz ? lol
buy some overpriced ruga from this person and ask someone else to craft it.
 
kira-red said:
it would be more accurate to say there is nothing illegal about this practice. "wrong" implies morality and there is a great deal wrong with the practice. bascially, it's greed motivated. greed is universally accepted as sin ("something bad"). thus, the practice is unethical.

the manufacturer could easily make an exception. the odd filling in of a set with the more uncommon piece would breed goodwill. it's likely the satisified customer will bring new customers - likely to buy the full set.

instead, in this case, what happens is that the dissatisfied customer remembers the attempt to be expolited and tells all their friends not to deal with the suppiler for anything.
Click to expand...

Nja, your wrong, there is nothing wrong with it, or unethical.

(etchics can be anything based on opinion)
 
The harn uses 2 ruga ingots instead of 1 for the other parts so it's just double the markup of the other parts.

Offer that price and you'll get it no problems.
 
It's not a resource issue. Auktuma simply owns the only two copies of the harness BP that are in circulation.
 
I've seen a reply in "the sellers thread" from someone with exactly the same problem stating: "I will get the harness one way or another", so there might still be possibilities for you.
May I ask what you payed for the 5 female parts? A full set has been for sale here on EF for 3k for a few weeks already and afaik hasn't been sold yet.
 
Dunn said:
Nja, your wrong, there is nothing wrong with it, or unethical.
Click to expand...

sorry, I'm not.

the supplier doesn't want to part with a harness at a fair price because it lessens the margin on a full suit. this motivation is pure greed. if your sole motivation is greed, your actions are unethical. greed is a sin.

note that none of this has anything to do with what is legal. it's not illegal to be greedy.

Dunn said:
(etchics can be anything based on opinion)
Click to expand...

no, they are not. ethics are based on morality - which is a judgement of right and wrong. it is not an individual's opinion.

now, not to say that you're like this, but... I have noticed that there are a great many people who down play any ethical argument as being trivial. they do this, usually, to promote their own selfish agenda. no big surpirse there.

if you are one who believes greed is not a sin but rather a virtue then you will certainly see this unnamed suppliers actions as being ethical. in fact, you will applaude him for "protecting his interest".

I, personally, don't care which side of the fence you want to sit on. I only ask that, if you side with greed, you be honest enough with yourself and everyone else to admit it.
 
kira-red said:
greed is a sin.
Click to expand...

Not that I dont agree ( well I dont but I do for 90% ).

But its a sin according to? Greed is a survival method for some.

And if greed is a sin, 90% of the world is @ sin. Atleast the richer part of it..
 
kira-red said:
sorry, I'm not.

the supplier doesn't want to part with a harness at a fair price because it lessens the margin on a full suit. this motivation is pure greed. if your sole motivation is greed, your actions are unethical. greed is a sin.

note that none of this has anything to do with what is legal. it's not illegal to be greedy.



no, they are not. ethics are based on morality - which is a judgement of right and wrong. it is not an individual's opinion.

now, not to say that you're like this, but... I have noticed that there are a great many people who down play any ethical argument as being trivial. they do this, usually, to promote their own selfish agenda. no big surpirse there.

if you are one who believes greed is not a sin but rather a virtue then you will certainly see this unnamed suppliers actions as being ethical. in fact, you will applaude him for "protecting his interest".

I, personally, don't care which side of the fence you want to sit on. I only ask that, if you side with greed, you be honest enough with yourself and everyone else to admit it.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but your ethics mean nothing to me. Bad is playing a videogame when more then halve the world is starving while you can invest the time you play the videogame in saving people's life. (just a small example)

And like others say, in the western society, a healthy dosis of greed isnt seen as unethical. Let alone greed in a video game. Besides, what do you think exactly what the motivator is for people wanting the virtual item is? World peace? Or is it greed too?
 
Squee said:
But its a sin according to?
Click to expand...

the vast majoriity of philosophies identify greed an undesirable trait. off hand, I can't think of one which promotes it, although I'm sure there is.

Squee said:
Greed is a survival method for some.
Click to expand...

not exactly. greed is defined as the obsessive desire to possess more than what one needs. so, it doesn't count as a survival method, as one has to be surviving to entertain greed. I do know what you're saying, though. that the methods may be similar. one can be ruthless when foraging for survival.

Squee said:
And if greed is a sin, 90% of the world is @ sin. Atleast the richer part of it..
Click to expand...

I doubt it's 90%, but certainly a great deal of the richer part and the not-so-rich part.
 
While I'd love to debate greed, ethics, etc., please folks....

:topic: :topic: :topic:

:topic: :topic: :topic:

Kira, perhaps this would be best made into a thread of its own. I'll happily join the fun over there.
 
kira... this is a real cash game... the whole point of the game is to make peds, it maybe undesirable but this whole game is build on greed imo.... but theres a argument that says most of western sociaty is built on greed (capitalism ftw :) lol)

but i dont see how selling 1 part so someone else can buy 5 parts from a competitor is good business tho. its like buying a Maccy D's happy meal but with the fires from burger king :) lol
 
the vast majoriity of philosophies identify greed an undesirable trait. off hand, I can't think of one which promotes it, although I'm sure there is.
Click to expand...

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.

Gordon Gekko
 
HEY ... HEY ... HEY ... :laugh: ... :topic: ... all I want is a damn Phantom (F) harness ... however, I do appreciate the banter about greed, etc.

Well, Auktuma made a comment in another thread where he solicited my services due to challenges with his crafting (all in fun I'm sure), BUT ... perhaps I could make a deal with him. :D Auktuma Honey, I have cleared the couch of all the magazines and pillows and it's ready when you are. ;)

All I'm asking, is for a reasonable way to get myself the Phantom (F) harness without having to sell what I have and purchase a full set, which is not going to happen, I can tell you that right now. If I don't get the harness, then I'll continue to use the Bear harness, which actually doesn't look bad with it at all, even with the Bear helmut, because I hate face masks.

Thank you everyone for your responses thus far, and now I'm hoping that Sweet Auktuma will consider my dilemma and maybe help solve it since he has the only BPs for crafting. Wait ... does that mean that the female who sold her Phantom at the ingame auction really sold it and someone else just picked up the harness? :scratch2:

Please keep the thread on topic my friends, it would be appreciated! Thanks! :)



***
 
BLABLABLABLA :mad:

I will help u Mindstar.

check reality port in one week.

regards,
 
kira-red said:
sorry, I'm not.

the supplier doesn't want to part with a harness at a fair price because it lessens the margin on a full suit. this motivation is pure greed. if your sole motivation is greed, your actions are unethical. greed is a sin.

note that none of this has anything to do with what is legal. it's not illegal to be greedy.



no, they are not. ethics are based on morality - which is a judgement of right and wrong. it is not an individual's opinion.

now, not to say that you're like this, but... I have noticed that there are a great many people who down play any ethical argument as being trivial. they do this, usually, to promote their own selfish agenda. no big surpirse there.

if you are one who believes greed is not a sin but rather a virtue then you will certainly see this unnamed suppliers actions as being ethical. in fact, you will applaude him for "protecting his interest".

I, personally, don't care which side of the fence you want to sit on. I only ask that, if you side with greed, you be honest enough with yourself and everyone else to admit it.
Click to expand...


So i guess it all comes down to what you have determined is a ethical. right or wrong....

Strange... I was under the impresion that everyone choses their own ethic... and that they decide for themself what they consider to be right and wrong.
witch would mean that everyone have their own moral and ethics they follow.

But i guess resistance is futile and we will all be assimilated ;)
 
Hulyss said:
BLABLABLABLA :mad:

I will help u Mindstar.

check reality port in one week.

regards,
Click to expand...

Wow ... I don't know who you are, BUT ... I'm accepting this as an honorable gesture (and legitimate one), and if you have the means to get the Phantom (F) harness without me going EU-bankrupt, then thank you. I'll check Reality Port for any news regarding this, but in the meantime, I'm sending a personal message to Auktuma to see what his recommendations might be. I'll give him free couch time for 6 months (I never charge anyway), if he can help solve this dilemma. :laugh:

Thanks again to everyone for the PMs, and your thoughts and suggestions! ;)

AND ... please, please, please ... keep this on topic with no more discussion about legal, moral, or ethical issues. Thank You!



***
 
Hi, I think your problem stems from the reseller potentially losing some of his profit margin, I have had a rare piece of armor crafted for me by Auktuma, if you manage to get hold of him directly, I'm sure he will be more than happy to craft you the harness.(You will most likely have to acquire the raw materials needed). Good Luck in your search:)
 
kira-red said:
it's likely the satisified customer will bring new customers - likely to buy the full set.

instead, in this case, what happens is that the dissatisfied customer remembers the attempt to be expolited and tells all their friends not to deal with the suppiler for anything.
Click to expand...

Actually, this is exactly what I was thinking. I had been out with MS9 last night and asked her to let me know what she thought of the armor. I've considered ordering a set of it myself, but now that I know the maker of the "full set offer" is going to hold a grudge because she found a partial set elsewhere, I am inclined to look for another avenue as well... even if it means getting something else completely.

Certainly no names have been mentioned here, but fortunately I know who we are talking about.
 
black_rain13 said:
Actually, this is exactly what I was thinking. I had been out with MS9 last night and asked her to let me know what she thought of the armor. I've considered ordering a set of it myself, but now that I know the maker of the "full set offer" is going to hold a grudge because she found a partial set elsewhere, I am inclined to look for another avenue as well... even if it means getting something else completely.

Certainly no names have been mentioned here, but fortunately I know who we are talking about.
Click to expand...

Oooo ... let me set this straight please ... no where was it said or even intimated that the maker of the full sets was holding a grudge against me for ANYthing, nor is the person doing the selling of the sets either. They are not the same person, just to make that clear. AND ... I adore the person selling the full sets for Auktuma.

I want to trust that some good will come of this thread, and perhaps it will warn others to be cautious in purchasing the Phantom armor from anyone if the full set is not available. I just think that we should have been given the knowledge somehow that this practice was going on ... meaning, someone who has all BPs except the one for the harness crafting the armor and selling it at the ingame auction to unsuspecting buyers.

And also for the record ... I have absolutely nothing against Auktuma or the person selling the full sets of armor, nor do I want to create issues for them. I only want there to be a way to get my (F) Phantom harness, and prevent this from happening to others, so let's not flame either of these people, because I feel they're both honorable individuals.

Thank You! :D



***
 
surely the price of the full sets are calculated in seperate peices, and then added together. why isnt it possible for auk to make just one peice like he does with every other request craft he deals with?

some input from auk and ogimini would be great here.
 
MindStar9 said:
Oooo ... let me set this straight please ... no where was it said or even intimated that the maker of the full sets was holding a grudge against me for ANYthing, nor is the person doing the selling of the sets either. They are not the same person, just to make that clear. AND ... I adore the person selling the full sets for Auktuma.

I want to trust that some good will come of this thread, and perhaps it will warn others to be cautious in purchasing the Phantom armor from anyone if the full set is not available. I just think that we should have been given the knowledge somehow that this practice was going on ... meaning, someone who has all BPs except the one for the harness crafting the armor and selling it at the ingame auction to unsuspecting buyers.

And also for the record ... I have absolutely nothing against Auktuma or the person selling the full sets of armor, nor do I want to create issues for them. I only want there to be a way to get my (F) Phantom harness, and prevent this from happening to others, so let's not flame either of these people, because I feel they're both honorable individuals.

Thank You! :D
Click to expand...

Glad you covered that one for me. I like Auktuma too. He makes me 8A plates. :)

I'm not sure how many people in the EU are capable of making a full set of Phantom armor, but I was under the impression that there was more than one.

So, let me understand. Auktuma makes the armor and so-and-so is simply acting as a seller's agent?

Well, that seems kinda odd to me, but ok.
 
I feel for you MS9, because you didn't realize that the harness market is controlled by one person. However, as the owner of a phantom set, I hope the market stays in control of one person. Why? because I don't want my set to lose value below the 3.3k I bought it for. If parts started to be sold on a regular basis, no matter how good the item was, it would slowly decline in value. A great example is 5B plates. Went from 3.6k to 1.8k and i expect them to go even lower (somewhere around 800-1kped a set).

Hopefully people will learn from your mistake and realize you can't buy a Phantom Harness anywhere except in a set.
 
The person that MS9 speaks and asked for Harness is me ofc.

Let me try to clear some thouths

1, i dont sell parts couse it hurt my biz. How? becouse competition wil take advantage of my work, as already is hapening hurting also the comunity..

And i believe that i have made a good job promoting Phantom.


2, nothing makes me sadder that MS9 that is a huge friend has passes throu this situation.


3, im the only one seling This armour


4, this is nothing to do with greed or whatsoever, it has to do with a game that ultimate goal is to win.


5, an advice, why to buy parts if u can get the ful set? i offered promotions and discounts to comunity and made an fairly accesible armor versus other options


Also, im not mr "so and so"? I love my rep and NOONE can point finger to me in any situation.

More news will follow shortly
 
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What I would do in ogi's situation, is simply look at the profit of a full set, then look at the cost of crafting a harness, cost+profit, and you have a price. Likely to be allot more expensive, but at least you give people the option, and you wont risk your bussiness.


And for people that already gotten all pieces, but the harness, you can also just sell them all again, and buy a full set. Next time make sure you are better informed when you make a big purchase.
 
Witte said:
And for people that already gotten all pieces, but the harness, you can also just sell them all again, and buy a full set. Next time make sure you are better informed when you make a big purchase.
Click to expand...

Well, hard time selling them all now that everyone knows they will never be able to complete the set.

;)

Perhaps that is an option though. Offer the service of "completing someone else's unfinished work".
 
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