Missing Loot from Hof. MA Logs show nothing.

[Matho]

huh, this is probably the most worrying issue I remember playing EU.

But it all goes together I guess - badly implemented beacon loots, mobs looting stuff they are not supposed to loot, now missing tt .... this seems like a complex problem.

Fingers crossed to solve it all out MA

And yes, MA should apologize for lame support answer.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Answered higher in post #58...come on he is working for MA, right ? Is there anyone responsible for anything ?

In my company first emplyee who encounter problem from customer at least get him know that someone working on it, even before starting solving that problem.

Kim is working for a planet partner company (well, leading it I guess) owned by MindArk, not directly for MindArk (or even located in the same country).

The purpose of his company is to develop and take care of Calypso, while the purpose of MindArk is to develop universal systems, systems for planet partners and fix loot and its balancing.

 

[dr3w]

I respect Kim for what he done already in terms of comunication, but he already was interventing in much less important cases ( like ppl stucked here and there )

Shoti, exactly - less important cases. He can help people in obvious situations, he can spawn mobs, change some parameters, he even can became a chirpy!™

Means, he acting like PP, he have some admin access to the game with special rights, and that's doesn't mean he can give everybody marco gun if he wish.

What problem is here - is very important core problem. It's not in range of his tasks. He saw that thread? Don't worry then - MA aware.

 

[Lorthis]

...it remains an isolated matter...

Otherwise a good and well formulated post (as most of your posts), but who says it's an isolated matter? What if YOU where the next to get a 26k / 10000.00 Ped HOF? How would you feel?

I think this concerns everyone playing this game/reading this forum...

 

[shoti]

Kim is working for a planet partner company (well, leading it I guess) owned by MindArk, not directly for MindArk (or even located in the same country).

The purpose of his company is to develop and take care of Calypso, while the purpose of MindArk is to develop universal systems, systems for planet partners and fix loot and its balancing.

Shoti, exactly - less important cases. He can help people in obvious situations, he can spawn mobs, change some parameters, he even can became a chirpy!™

Means, he acting like PP, he have some admin access to the game with special rights, and that's doesn't mean he can give everybody marco gun if he wish.

What problem is here - is very important core problem. It's not in range of his tasks. He saw that thread? Don't worry then - MA aware.

Ok My faul...Kim is not guilty. Sorry Kim, but imagine how pissed we are atm :/

 

[dr3w]

Ok My faul...Kim is not guilty. Sorry Kim, but imagine how pissed we are atm :/

I understand. What we can do - it's just watch very close our own activities, more (I don't wish that to anyone!) similar issues reported with different info - more chances to catch that for MA.

 

[Lorthis]

... just watch very close our own activities, more (I don't wish that to anyone!) similar issues reported with different info - more chances to catch that for MA.

Wow this sounds like a fun game, having to log every loot yourself...

/Irony off/

MA give this man his apology and his HOF NOW!!!

 

[dr3w]

Wow this sounds like a fun game, having to log every loot yourself...

/Irony off/

MA give this man his apology and his HOF NOW!!!

Instead of whining and ranting, - better to help solve current situation faster.

And about logging every step - you don't know what can do real ecofags in that game. Sometimes it goes far beyond borders of good and evil.

Also, why you're so sure, that that man should get his HOF? Maybe it was just error in messaging system, which was seen by everyone?

 

[Lorthis]

"Instead of whining and ranting, - better to help solve current situation faster.

And about logging every step - you don't know what can do real ecofags in that game. Sometimes it goes far beyond borders of good and evil.

Also, why you're so sure, that that man should get his HOF? Maybe it was just error in messaging system, which was seen by everyone?"

OK, i am sorry if I seem to be ranting/whining... But I think this is a serious issue...
And BTW, what is an "ecofag"?

 

[Jimmy B]

Don't want get you wrong, but you seems not feel affected at all with that situation when in reality u are. Even if that is one-time accident ,if it was 10 or 100000 peds, if MA responded or not...important is that such thing didnt hapened before and that mean something was changed without notification.

I would agree with you. If we knew that people were not getting loots they were supposed to be getting.

I maintain that we don't. Certainly I cannot deduce with certainty from the contents of this thread that there is definitely any bug or one-time accident. Nor have I seen any evidence of missing loot from my own experience. Mistakes get made, and it is not always MA that makes them.

What we have here is a thread about (i) a poorly handled support case, and (ii) one person reporting he thinks he has some missing loot. Reading the thread, the furore it is generating appears to be related mainly to (ii) not (i). Which seems a bit premature to me, since until there is some solid evidence one way or the other it is all based on one person's hearsay.

Again, whether the error was on the part of the OP or on MA, I hope MA help the OP to get the answers he needs as soon as possible.

 

[Lorthis]

I would agree with you. If we knew that people were not getting loots they were supposed to be getting.

I maintain that we don't. Certainly I cannot deduce with certainty from the contents of this thread that there is definitely any bug or one-time accident. Nor have I seen any evidence of missing loot from my own experience. Mistakes get made, and it is not always MA that makes them.

What we have here is a thread about (i) a poorly handled support case, and (ii) one person reporting he thinks he has some missing loot. Reading the thread, the furore it is generating appears to be related mainly to (ii) not (i). Which seems a bit premature to me, since until there is some solid evidence one way or the other it is all based on one person's hearsay.

Again, whether the error was on the part of the OP or on MA, I hope MA help the OP to get the answers he needs as soon as possible.

Great post. Very well formulated. MA come answer the OP...

 

[Kim|MindArk]

Support will only take place through the established channels which is through support cases, it won't be handled in an open forum. If MindArk determines that something is indeed wrong then a fix will be made and you will all be informed of it.

 

[Kimmi]

Support will only take place through the established channels which is through support cases, it won't be handled in an open forum. If MindArk determines that something is indeed wrong then a fix will be made and you will all be informed of it.

Biggest lie of the century!

 

[Lorthis]

Support will only take place through the established channels which is through support cases, it won't be handled in an open forum. If MindArk determines that something is indeed wrong then a fix will be made and you will all be informed of it.

Well, obviously not...

"12/03/11 12:28 AM CONSTRUCT Energy Matter Residue 10000.00
We regret that in this case, our policies do not allow us to offer compensation for reports that we cannot verify."

 

[Lorthis]

Biggest lie of the century!

Could not agree more...

 

[jetsina]

Ok, Kim, please take up the following, however:
it looks as if the loot window (and chat on globals/hofs) are recording events which don't get into the inventory and are not logged by the system. So, is it possible for some of the software to respond (swirlies as well), even though the inventory and log are 'not informed'?

I did some crafting of welding wire yesterday, put a new batch in the machine and started it automatically for a few clicks, while getting my next batch ready (I like to look at statistics per 100 clicks). Normally, I close the loot windows very often, as I like the 'ping' sound .
On this occasion, I had 2 successes according to the open loot window from about 6 clicks, but only 1 of them was in storage (which I had just cleared across to a vehicle inventory). I also scrolled down to look for it, but normally the two successes would be merged into one stack anyway. It wasn't there. I didn't take a screenie, but I was fully conscious of what I was looking at on screen! I know that often, a glitch is solved by relogging, but I didn't bother to immediately.
As far as I can tell, however, the missing welding wires did not reappear when I relogged later...

Combined with this case, then I am also of the opinion that something is definitely wrong, and it is something not caught by a later synchronisation. It is also not the same as a roll-back, which is happening VERY often in space now, with unknown 'details'.

Thus, on the software side (and internally only, I accept that), please look at what exactly a log grabs, and whether, as here, it is [logically consistant from the programming for it to be] possible for the loot window and global/hof message to be activated without the inventory and log being aware of a loot or partial loot DIRECTLY AS IT HAPPENS! Ty!

 

[Dusk]

Support will only take place through the established channels which is through support cases, it won't be handled in an open forum. If MindArk determines that something is indeed wrong then a fix will be made and.....(snip!)

To be fair to the OP he *has* kept the case open. Hopefully the next response will be more timely and *thoroughly* investigated.

 

[Aandar]

Support will only take place through the established channels which is through support cases, it won't be handled in an open forum.

Obviously we don't need to know every detail of this individual case, but active players need to be assured that they can trust that you will give them all their items.

How can you expect to have many customers in a casino if you can't give them a guarantee that they will get a correct amount of money for chips they won ?

If MindArk determines that something is indeed wrong

If ?

IF ???

Does it look like there is even a slightest possibility that everything is fine here ?

Come on...

 

[Lorthis]

Support will only take placewhich is through the established channels through support cases, it won't be handled in an open forum. If MindArk determines that something is indeed wrong then a fix will be made and you will all be informed of it.

If you care to read up as few posts, you'll see that OP already went "through the established channels through support cases".

In MY opinion, OP has been both very polite, and very patient, about this issue... -> +rep to OP

 

[Casay]

I would agree with you. If we knew that people were not getting loots they were supposed to be getting.

I maintain that we don't. Certainly I cannot deduce with certainty from the contents of this thread that there is definitely any bug or one-time accident. Nor have I seen any evidence of missing loot from my own experience. Mistakes get made, and it is not always MA that makes them.

What we have here is a thread about (i) a poorly handled support case, and (ii) one person reporting he thinks he has some missing loot. Reading the thread, the furore it is generating appears to be related mainly to (ii) not (i). Which seems a bit premature to me, since until there is some solid evidence one way or the other it is all based on one person's hearsay.

Again, whether the error was on the part of the OP or on MA, I hope MA help the OP to get the answers he needs as soon as possible.

Is this a poorly handled support case? Not really, they checked their logs and replied with the information they had. The solid evidence IS here. The only way it isn't here is if you believe the OP is making a totally false statement AND faking a support response.

OP sends in support asking about missing HOF peds. Has the patience of a saint......

Support does their job, checks their logs and finally wrote back that their logs show he never got a HOF and won't compensate for something they can't verify. (Doesn't this verify what the OP is saying in the first place? Also look at the totals given by support as it seems to show he did get part of a HOF but not the total amount he should have.. again as the OP stated in the first place.)
Tracker shows the HOF.
Several people saw it, including myself and have it in their chat logs.

From that information alone, how can you make any other determination that the loot and logs aren't messed up on this case?

The reason I'm so darn quick to go from 0 to pissed on this? Thread in 2008 about missing loots, trying to be patient along with many others, trying to warn people about it and give possible things they could do to work around it. Several screen shots, support cases sent and never anything done by MA. Seemed there were a few bugs happening at once at that time. Loot missing, loot not missing but stack bug not showing proper stack amounts etc. Eventually several mini updates in a row and fixed but we all got 'our logs don't show' type replies from support.

MA has shown through support that he's missing the loots and if it wasn't for this thread, he'd be screwed and have no chance of getting the lost peds from his HOF.

Although I appreciate Kim replying and understand he can't at this time give us more information, this isn't at this point just about a private Support Case. This appears to be a serious flaw in their loot and logging system.

Forgot to add - it doesn't appear to be an isolate matter. I know of at least one other person that has support case in for same type of thing. I'll let them post here when / if they want.

 

[shoti]

To be fair to the OP he *has* kept the case open. Hopefully the next response will be more timely and *thoroughly* investigated.

Unfortunately, there is new manner of handling cases via support. They are closing cases right after first copy-paste answer they send to you. Nor even checking if u are happy with it or not. Nor checking if maybe you disagree with smth or have another question.

Maybe i was unlucky but all cases roled by George were finished like that. I prefered old-school support wchich waited for customer to close support case when he was satisfied with info.

 

[shoti]

Wow this sounds like a fun game, having to log every loot yourself...

....

well after all that will be explained i bet lot of ppl remain suspicious and will prefer to be vigilant. Therefore i think about starting in other thread research how many ppl is interested ( petition to ma ? ) in introducing loot listing in chat for solo hunting ( same as in team ). That alow log all loots and make work of programs like EU hunter much easier. Ofc support spam acction wil foolow that if there will be enough interest to let MA know that more ppl is interested by that.

uff...finally constructive solution, good sign that i am calming bit now

 

[JD RACING]

well after all that will be explained i bet lot of ppl remain suspicious and will prefer to be vigilant. Therefore i think about starting in other thread research how many ppl is interested ( petition to ma ? ) in introducing loot listing in chat for solo hunting ( same as in team ). That alow log all loots and make work of programs like EU hunter much easier. Ofc support spam acction wil foolow that if there will be enough interest to let MA know that more ppl is interested by that.

uff...finally constructive solution, good sign that i am calming bit now

im in for that that a good idea

if it happen to a big hof it dont mean it dont happen to small loots also that could be one problem of gettting low return

 

[Kim|MindArk]

If you care to read up as few posts, you'll see that OP already went "through the established channels through support cases".

In MY opinion, OP has been both very polite, and very patient, about this issue... -> +rep to OP

That is irrelevant, for security reasons support is only conducted through the established system.

 

[GradenFoss]

well after all that will be explained i bet lot of ppl remain suspicious and will prefer to be vigilant. Therefore i think about starting in other thread research how many ppl is interested ( petition to ma ? ) in introducing loot listing in chat for solo hunting ( same as in team ). That alow log all loots and make work of programs like EU hunter much easier.

Just make a team, name it after yourself (so that your ATH will be credited to your right name ), and invite someone from your FL who is not hunting. Activate chat log.

That comes at least close to your proposal.

 

[Casay]

That is irrelevant, for security reasons support is only conducted through the established system.

Understood but what is someone to do when support checks their logs tells them they didn't get a HOF at all and won't compensated for it????? The OP obviously did get a HOF, from the support logs, part of it IS missing...

Is the OP supposed to keep making support cases and being told the same thing, our logs don't show it until he gives up? That's what would have happened here. :/

I'm hoping Kimmi is wrong and you will report what happened. It 'seems' he didn't get the gems he should have given the size and type of HOF. All we want is the truth, it goes a long way.

 

[rastamannen]

Well Im not logging in until OP has gotten hes money and if he dont get it its time to quit this game. Its simply not worth the risk. I hope more ppl decide not to play until this is solved. We are paying customers and I at least expect a little more help from support if i post a case like this....

 

[Jimmy B]

Is this a poorly handled support case? Not really, they checked their logs and replied with the information they had. The solid evidence IS here. The only way it isn't here is if you believe the OP is making a totally false statement AND faking a support response.

Well, the latter isn't impossible. I'm not suggesting it is the case, but there's no way to be sure it isn't.

But assuming the contents of the support case were conveyed accurately, I still fail to see where you see this 'solid evidence'. It is blatantly obvious that the list of items he received is not complete. There would be clicks with residues, clicks with returned materials, etc. It's very unlikely there would be exactly one stack of 10000 ped residue and nothing else. Hence clearly the support case hasn't listed everything he looted. And that is likely a mistake by the person writing the support case or a misinterpretation of the support case by the OP.

That doesn't prove there is a bug or that loot went missing. It does, like I said, suggest the support case was poorly handled.

If there is a more serious bug at large, the evidence for it will appear pretty quick I'm sure. I know I'm checking my loots more carefully than usual; I'm sure many other people are too. But I still don't know for sure anything went missing, what I don't understand is how anyone is else sure, with the possible exception of the OP himself.

 

[shoti]

......... It is blatantly obvious that the list of items he received is not complete. There would be clicks with residues, clicks with returned materials, etc. It's very unlikely there would be exactly one stack of 10000 ped residue and nothing else. ........


That doesn't prove there is a bug or that loot went missing. It does, like I said, suggest the support case was poorly handled.

If there is a more serious bug at large, the evidence for it will appear pretty quick I'm sure. I know I'm checking my loots more carefully than usual; I'm sure many other people are too. But I still don't know for sure anything went missing, what I don't understand is how anyone is else sure, with the possible exception of the OP himself.

Something was altered, either loot comunicate wchich tonnes of people were witnesed, loot, or log that someone from support was aviable to see. We are assuming that OP is saying truth here. In other case will be rant of the year (and i don't belive that.Don't know OP but don't see reasons for doing such lie )

Beside last example MA is not honest...
Except last example i am almost certain there were changes in loot introduced...

 

[Casay]

I still fail to see where you see this 'solid evidence'.

He got a HOF
Support says he didn't and has no record of one.........

Or look at it this way
OP posted he was missing PART of his HOF....... support shows in their reply that is what happened as their totals don't match chat log totals at all.

Either way - unless one takes the OP is lying stance, - there's loot missing when you compare the chat log totals including the hof VS supports totals.

One more thing- since support was specifically tasked to look for the hof and missing loots and they reply no hof , no missing loots....... ummmmmm... What is the OP to do? Not post about it? Overall it seems to me that's what you were suggesting to begin with, that public forum isn't a place for this. Then Kim turns around and takes the same stance. :/