Suggestion: Damage enhancers

[Gopher]

Indeed, the OP (also my case) assumed people would understand right away, players and Ma alike. Seems that it's not really the case, let's try to explain better. Pretty sure there will still be people having issues with the topic but it's fine.

I'll say it again too, the problem is not the current %price of enhancers, but the bottlenecks created by high demand in such a short time.

MA basically gave people what they wanted. Meaningful events. Events and mini events that they would not bash for being too dull and empty. Which was a great thing to do. Kudos for that!
This chain of events started end of october and it looks like, with mini mayhem, merry mayhem, twen, easter mayhem the events will end in summer. Which again, is great! High turnover, people are happy, MA makes good profit from high volume cycled.

But, we already had some bottlenecks in the game because of bad design of resources being introduced in the famous wave system. This is a system we warned MA about for many years, because it's very bad implemented, easy to spot so people would stay AFK for 45 minutes every hour for years and only extract the rare resources in a very short time frame, which is quite dumb to not be able to do anything about it, development-wise, for so many years..
These resources are capped to a set amount (tt) per hour so per day. No matter what the demand is. It's not hard to see the red flag here already.
On top of this we had a reduction in pyrite liek a year ago or so (according to some miners) and we had recently a noticable reduction in OAC drop from most hunted mobs (mayhems).
On top of this we have bad crafting system design, where you can only get one unit per click.
On top of this we have a bad crafting system where it takes forever to do 1 click.
On top of this crafter want to hunt too because hunting is good, after a very long period....

Yes, scarcity occurs in real life too, but here is a totally different scenario. This can be avoided, controlled, these issues are not new, the famous "it's dynamic" doesn't apply at all, or at least where it should, like if the resource is being consumed the system, should dynamically automatically increase the volume available each wave.
There are so many points where small and smart changes would go a long way... including leaving some time between events so people can replenish their stocks, from miners to crafters and hunters....
They fixed and improved a few systems, but things move so slow that it's really hard to understand how someone could create a very high demand for their product and make the product hard or impossible to get.


PS - 2.0 - for no reason, just so that people who are stuck in their head to get their fix and have an argument to pull a straw man - I gotchu fam

I agree that the wave system is complete dogshit and diminishes the game a lot. Also doesnt feel good to loot a few good things in a wave then get shit tt items for the next 45min-hour.

 

[Slyk]

explaination and i'm not sure if a dig

I thought as much was the issue trying to be conveyed here and I think we should definitely spell it out if we want to see meaningful change. If we make a 'fix the price' thread where we say it's not about the price they're just going to dismiss it then and there.

I think we just get the pyrite cap moved way up, add to other pvp spots like others have posted before and things would be much better without much work on MA's end

 

[Jhereg]

Capped resources is necessary to not drive MU into the ground. Whether the quantity of the caps are appropriate, that's a different story.

However, in this case, given the timing of events coming up, this post is primarily players unable to get enough of a resource asking Mindark to essentially 'change the rules' of the current in game reality in order to provide them a more advantageous situation, and that's what annoys me.

 

[warmdogg]

I think we just get the pyrite cap moved way up, add to other pvp spots like others have posted before and things would be much better without much work on MA's end

This would indeed fix the issues with the price, you’re getting caught in circles, and not everyone is 1st language English.

you understand the point made but still dwell on wording?? I don’t understand why, not bashing just want to understand if there is more to it?

 

[Legends]

Well they (MA) did say that in UE5, the mining system will allow players to have more control over what and how much they mine:

Welcome to Entropia Universe Unreal​

...

The Future​

Teasers!​

Using our holistic approach we will create something akin to a Metaverse: an alternate world made exciting by the sheer range of possibilities it offers.
Here’s a quick glimpse of what the future might hold:

• Fully-functional user-driven economy with a wide range of goods, services and professions enabling users to gain expertise and a role within the community
• Single shard universe with thematic consistency
• Properly defined corporations with group characteristics
• Developed background story helping users orient themselves within the game world
• Defined biomes teeming with alien life
• Introduction of environmental dangers
• Interplanetary jumpgates
• Contract system: inter-user contracts to harness user labor as well as NPC corporate contracts (i.e. 'missions')
• Resources governed by consistent, clear rules
• Relative value of items from Entropia to be kept
• More information on resources and creatures
• Ownership (estates, land areas etc.) with a larger range of customizable entry options
• A truly open MMO world allowing users to drive their own projects, whilst including a multitude of optional goals
• User revenue from interactions with user-created content
• Hubs with centralized facilities and features to encourage users to congregate
• Talent tree: visualized skill and professions with the potential to customize towards your playstyle together with the gear

At least, that's how I understand it...

 

[warmdogg]

However, in this case, given the timing of events coming up, this post is primarily players unable to get enough of a resource asking Mindark to essentially 'change the rules' of the current in game reality in order to provide them a more advantageous situation, and that's what annoys me.

MA changed the ‘rules’ when they reduced the spawn and increased demand.

when did balancing become rules changes? Clearly the current scenario is out of balance due to MA changes with events.

 

[Slyk]

This would indeed fix the issues with the price, you’re getting caught in circles, and not everyone is 1st language English.

you understand the point made but still dwell on wording?? I don’t understand why, not bashing just want to understand if there is more to it?

What? I'm not dwelling on wording at all I was just confused because the post was titled fix the price and there were posts as i read about the price not being the point.....so I posted my confusion. I thought that it was a resource issue (I literally only thought pyrite was the issue, the OAC stuff was news to me) but then when I read stuff about crafters not selling and putting up orders and stuff I was even more confused about the whole thing that was trying to address...

Edit: I'll edit this one as to not add more replies but seeing eve's post below about the crafters buying out others stock is some bs I didn't know about either

 

[Synial]

So tired of reading BS that always pops up in pyrite threads from ignorant individuals.

January is my big mining month and I will public google doc a 500k mining cycle including full loot composition to show how poorly the system actually functions.

P.S. I have been skilling rockets and should break 500 hp during mm. I look forward to killing all idiots and camping your claims.

See you at argus nerds. It's really a shame the same people with ulterior motives are too dense to realize that if drop rates were higher their markup % would go down but net profit would actually be up as the market allows for more players to enhance their weapons that are currently not doing so.

 

[Jhereg]

MA changed the ‘rules’ when they reduced the spawn and increased demand.

when did balancing become rules changes? Clearly the current scenario is out of balance due to MA changes with events.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love it if damage enhancers to be free to use.

But balancing shouldn't be at the whim of the players, and it certainly shouldn't be done in a manner to satisfy players because it would, in the short term, be financially beneficial for some that the current situation changes.

 

[Evey]

Capped resources is necessary to not drive MU into the ground. Whether the quantity of the caps are appropriate, that's a different story.

However, in this case, given the timing of events coming up, this post is primarily players unable to get enough of a resource asking Mindark to essentially 'change the rules' of the current in game reality in order to provide them a more advantageous situation, and that's what annoys me.

No. Players are suggesting MA should keep their word and make it dynamic and not leave players prey to resellers and manipulation, crafters buying other crafters socks just so they can sell more expensive a week later. Just like Light liquid, yes there is in the ground, but it;s 20 peds per wave and there are 10-15 people maybe, each waiting to grab 2k tt to drop it in a tier 7 upgrade.

 

[Jhereg]

No. Players are suggesting MA should keep their word and make it dynamic and not leave players prey to resellers and manipulation, crafters buying other crafters socks just so they can sell more expensive a week later. Just like Light liquid, yes there is in the ground, but it;s 20 peds per wave and there are 10-15 people maybe, each waiting to grab 2k tt to drop it in a tier 7 upgrade.

Wave loots/loot caps are there to mimic resource scarcity, which gives value to the resources.

In terms of value, I don't mean just financially, but also from usefulness of the resource.

The best analogy I can draw is bitcoin, where the number released per time period is fixed, so even if there are more resources used to mine those bitcoins, the same number of bitcoins are mined.

 

[tBANNA]

No. Players are suggesting MA should keep their word and make it dynamic and not leave players prey to resellers and manipulation, crafters buying other crafters socks just so they can sell more expensive a week later. Just like Light liquid, yes there is in the ground, but it;s 20 peds per wave and there are 10-15 people maybe, each waiting to grab 2k tt to drop it in a tier 7 upgrade.

when i said the AH should make visible the order owners and let ppl sell to who they want not to who is fist price listed by 0.01 more or by 1 amount more to the stack, no1 gave t much of a shit and yet everyone is all fuss and bother cause few non playing dudes sit in AH to control the market, the same market that MA said if is altered leads to ban, well if that is not market manipulation idk what is, and more to it if u are cornered in your freedom to just a few fixed moves.. where's the liberty ?

 

[Jhereg]

Here's a good article:

Bitcoin Mining Difficulty: Everything You Need to Know

In order to ensure bitcoin blocks are discovered roughly every 10 minutes, an automatic system is in place that adjusts the difficulty depending on how many miners are competing to discover blocks at any given time.

www.coindesk.com

Why bitcoin mining difficulty matters​

The Bitcoin difficulty algorithm is programmed to keep the entire system stable by maintaining a 10-minute duration for finding new blocks. In essence, it takes roughly 10 minutes for one miner out of the entire network to generate a winning code and win the right to propose a new block of bitcoin transactions to be added to the blockchain.
To maintain this frequency, the algorithm steps in and increases or decreases the difficulty of mining bitcoin. Whenever there’s an influx of miners or mining rigs, it ramps up the difficulty of mining bitcoin. If the reverse is the case (that is, if there is a drop in the number of miners competing to find new blocks), the protocol reduces the mining difficulty to make it easier for the remaining miners to discover blocs. The mining difficulty of the bitcoin network is altered by adding or reducing the zeros at the front of the target hash.
The target hash is the name given to the specific hash (fixed-length code) that all miners are trying to beat. Whoever generates a random code that happens to have an equal or higher number of zeros at the front than the target hash first is selected as the winner.


So the scarcity system in EU is modeled in some since similarly to how bitcoin releases blocks.

 

[Evey]

Wave loots/loot caps are there to mimic resource scarcity, which gives value to the resources.

In terms of value, I don't mean just financially, but also from usefulness of the resource.

Well doh. Yes, I know, that doesn't mean the system cannot or should not be improved and make it adapt to demand as the players are doing what MA always wanted, cycle more. It doesn't make any sense to have the same cap no matter what cycle there is. Why is this so hard to grasp??

 

[Rocket192]

pyrite is a bigger bottleneck than people think... before the most recent change you could get troves of pyrite in pvp3 just E of aegis mound

now you have a 12x8 honeycomb in argus with 19 other players to get pyrite from. it's problematic. you can get pyrite from pvp3/4/ashi as well, but only a max TT cap of aobut 40tt/hour. it's really shit.


MA needs to do a substantially better job balancing pyrite between all pvp areas, giving a nod towards lootable pvp to make that extra risk worth it.

 

[Jhereg]

Well doh. Yes, I know, that doesn't mean the system cannot or should not be improved and make it adapt to demand as the players are doing what MA always wanted, cycle more. It doesn't make any sense to have the same cap no matter what cycle there is. Why is this so hard to grasp??

Always the option to hunt without damage enhancers though.

 

[Rocket192]

Always the option to hunt without damage enhancers though.

yeah but that's fucking boring.

that's like choosing to have sex with two condoms.

 

[Legends]

I remember about 4 years ago it rained Redulite for a few days, that sent MU down from about 600% to below 200%.

I think MA should do the same thing with Pyrite right now.

 

[Atrax]

I think MA should do the same thing with Pyrite right now.

This would be a horrible burn, if the things being said in this thread are true. And I fully believe much of it is true/accurate. About the resellers and market manipulation, specifically.

You're literally going to throw those guys a MASSIVE pile of PED with an action like that. I don't even do that stuff but if Pyrite suddenly dropped to <150% on a series of HoFs and people who want to undersell the market - those same resellers are going to drop every free PED on Pyrite they're going to sell for 300+ percent by February. If I was paying attention and they clearly just dropped a bonus load of Pyrite I would be buying too.

I'm not saying saying there's no problem, but this isn't the fix. Since PVP mining isn't something that is heavy with noobs the people who looted this flood of pyrite probably wouldn't be "doing their part to lower prices" anyways. Which might mean resellers calm the flood at 200+ % and we see 400+ % by easter.

As much as I'm generally prone to share @Jhereg's hard line viewpoint - in the end MA depends on depositors.

If enough players say that "go without" isn't an option, and enough players say that "go get some" isn't tempting enough - it is a game and MA needs to find a way to address customer complaints. For this to work though, "Not Fun" has to result in "Not Depositing".

 

[Legends]

This would be a horrible burn, if the things being said in this thread are true. And I fully believe much of it is true/accurate. About the resellers and market manipulation, specifically.

You're literally going to throw those guys a MASSIVE pile of PED with an action like that. I don't even do that stuff but if Pyrite suddenly dropped to <150% on a series of HoFs and people who want to undersell the market - those same resellers are going to drop every free PED on Pyrite they're going to sell for 300+ percent by February. If I was paying attention and they clearly just dropped a bonus load of Pyrite I would be buying too.

I'm not saying saying there's no problem, but this isn't the fix. Since PVP mining isn't something that is heavy with noobs the people who looted this flood of pyrite probably wouldn't be "doing their part to lower prices" anyways. Which might mean resellers calm the flood at 200+ % and we see 400+ % by easter.

As much as I'm generally prone to share @Jhereg's hard line viewpoint - in the end MA depends on depositors.

If enough players say that "go without" isn't an option, and enough players say that "go get some" isn't tempting enough - it is a game and MA needs to find a way to address customer complaints. For this to work though, "Not Fun" has to result in "Not Depositing".

Well it's moot anyway, MA isn't going to intervene unless there is strong evidence that someone is working to monopolize the market and drving prices to absurd levels. But...

We all thought about it I think, about 4 years ago, when Redulite was raining down north of Shinook Jungle; why not just buy tons of it and wait for the mu to come back up... Well, there was just way too much of it on the auction, and there was a certain amount of uncertainty regarding drop rates going forward. The point being, if MA wants to, they can drop so much Pyrite that people will run out of PED with which to buy it all, and that's okay. And people have to decide also, if holding on to an ore like Pyrite is what they want their PED invested in; there's other things to invest in and who knows how long it might take for prices to recover after a shock like that.

Anyway I'm just pissed because prices fluctuate so god damn much in this game that it's extremely difficult to have foresight and try to maintain inventories and price points for items. This time last year MA re-shuffled almost all resources on Caly and common resources like Garcen sky-rocketed to levels that had never been seen in EU, ever. So it seems to me that MA does this on purpose and actually WANTS prices to fluctuate a lot.

How is a crafter/supplier supposed to survive in this kind of environment? All you have to do is buy your mats at the wrong price and bam, you can't profit on the stuff you will be making with it because most of the other crafters bought cheaper than you.

I just want more stability in prices, that's all.

 

[Atrax]

Well it's moot anyway, MA isn't going to intervene unless there is strong evidence that someone is working to monopolize the market and drving prices to absurd levels. But...

They know this too. I'm not sure if you mean "strong evidence" in terms of what players can see, or MA.

I'm pretty sure they have the location of every stone and ingot in the game. I'm not sure if they care though.

As Evey points out the wide variance in what players are doing here, if it's that bad that established high-end players are pissed, we'll see action. Hundreds of us can protest. Much of the low - end and middle players can piss right off.

If Evey and 2 - 3 other key players said "I can't get my gear so I'm not playing" and then actually sat out Merry Mayhem you could practically guarantee that MA would take a very serious look at the matter. I don't honestly know how many it would take. Not many.

I don't see this happening though as such a move would cost them long term advantage, and it's a competitive landscape. Those that don't have deep stocks of enhancers are still going to be vastly ahead of the majority of players in terms of turnover, and thus loot even without them.

Of course, if this happened, and it made the event that much more enjoyable for the lower turnover players - it could finally reveal the "more small players trumps a few big players" business model to MA. And who wants that???

 

[Legends]

They know this too. I'm not sure if you mean "strong evidence" in terms of what players can see, or MA.

I'm pretty sure they have the location of every stone and ingot in the game. I'm not sure if they care though.

As Evey points out the wide variance in what players are doing here, if it's that bad that established high-end players are pissed, we'll see action. Hundreds of us can protest. Much of the low - end and middle players can piss right off.

If Evey and 2 - 3 other key players said "I can't get my gear so I'm not playing" and then actually sat out Merry Mayhem you could practically guarantee that MA would take a very serious look at the matter. I don't honestly know how many it would take. Not many.

I don't see this happening though as such a move would cost them long term advantage, and it's a competitive landscape. Those that don't have deep stocks of enhancers are still going to be vastly ahead of the majority of players in terms of turnover, and thus loot even without them.

Of course, if this happened, and it made the event that much more enjoyable for the lower turnover players - it could finally reveal the "more small players trumps a few big players" business model to MA. And who wants that???

MA cares when a player makes a withdrawal. Just to catch you up regarding the whole Redulite thing, this is what happened:

1. Captain Jack created threads in this forum demanding that MA intervene regarding the crazy mu on Opals and Redulite specifically, claiming that these were being manipulated by one specific person. This started around 2017, but MA never did anything about it.

2. I think in 2019 (dates could be wrong), that player requested a withdrawal. That's when MA did an investigation (we know this because that player came and complained on this forum that his withdrawal was being delayed for way too long)

3. MA then did something and caused Redulite to rain down in the game for several days, causing the mu to crash.

So yes, MA cares, when a person requests a withdrawal, then they look into market manipulation claims. But until then, probably not.

Is it right? Is it wrong? Obviously, they should have cared and done something about it before because for many years, people overpaid for Opals and Redulite and wouldn't have if they had just investigated those claims before.

 

[Sub-Zero]

- They nerfed output drop rate from mobs and mayhem.
- They started mini mayhems between events leading to no rest between certain mayhems.
- Pyrite drops focused on fort argus and lootable, limits it to a group of players since it's likely to get killed there.

Proposal:
Pyrite, should imo be dropped in every area of the game but at lesser quantity than lootable pvp. This would lessen the monopoly of people from taking over non lootable pvp areas. As I haven't mined in lootable pvp I can't comment on the drop rate of pyrite there.
Another option would be to make dmg enh break at 1/3 the current rate.
For next mini mayhem's. MA, you literally don't need to have one mini mayhem in between every mayhem. People need to pay their bills and recover their fatigue when they look at their ped card, well at least some do.
Raise back the output drop rate both in mayhems and for other mobs.
During mini mayhem events, consider adding "Mayhem maturities" like in this mini mayhem you could've made Mayhem Argonauts that drops similar loot like mayhem (except boxes).

 

[Atrax]

Another option would be to make dmg enh break at 1/3 the current rate.

IMO probably the best option for a brute force, short term fix.

"Due to the decision to run events for half the year solid, enhancer break rates are being (perhaps temporarily) adjusted."

There would of course be consequences, but nothing like raining out the base resources.

Just to catch you up regarding the whole Redulite thing, this is what happened:

Thanks for the catch-up. Sounds a lot like the repairing (L) amps thing. Apparently it went on for quite some time. A couple of clowns decided to go for it whole hog and just started basically mining with functionally (UL) L13 amps. Super obvious what was happening and players at every level were complaining.

I'm not sure if they attempted to withdraw before MA took action or not. But it did make it clear how much MA was concerned with any particular player's PED card. Which is not at all.

If mayhem turnover takes a hit, they will care.

 

[warmdogg]

The logic is lost on me. High cost enhancers = less entropy

edit: not about the cost, is about the game changes without broader balancing, suspicious market activity leading to increased cost.

 

[Legends]

Reducing break rates as a temp solution for mats of dmg enhancers is fine, but it doesn't fix the inherent flaws in the current system which leads to massive fluctuations in prices and makes it really difficult for crafters/suppliers to reach supply and price stability.

We clearly need a system where miners can mine as much of a resource as they want to fill a demand. If they mine it to the point of unprofitability, that's their problem. But the current system imposes a scarcity on the entire game community and this is not realistic, or fun. Not at all.

 

[Atrax]

Since the thread's sort of shot anyways I'ma do "my part".

First person who posts "I'll take it" can have my pyrite (15.90 TT) for 150%.

 

[Alina]

Lootable is not the solution because its very slow compared to nonlootable. During 2020 Christmas i bought 69000 pieces of output meanwhile MA said lets make markup for players lol

Also i say we need queue crafting. I have to wake up in order to more enhs types

 

[Legends]

I'll take it!

 

[Atrax]

I'll take it!

LOL 15 people on the thread and it took 4 minutes.

Legends I'll DM for the meetup.