Infinite Stamina? Bug? Exploit? More stupidity from MA?

[Mikass]

I was concerned enough to sit on my days off watching this thread and bug other people on their days off about the matter.

It`s not a level playing field since very weak mobs get you 1agility plus you only need to kill 20 or 50 of such weaklings to get the bonus or go there, take a walk in the park quest gives you 1 agility or stamina or other attributes while on Calypso you mostly get worthless blazars for such missions.

By allowing such missions to be implemented MA sends a wrong signal to the people, that the ones doing balancing are total amateurs; not that we didn`t know that already.

On Calypso, getting Stamina typically required a completed Iron Mission. On RT, it's obtained through a noobie mission.

My point exactly.

 

[Rapido]

Is it right to asume that every planet existing now and those planets coming in the future will have their on programers, creating code for missions and other stuff, whitout that the code not been controled by MA's coders?

If so, we probebly will have some more isuiss like this in the future

 

[Hanne|SDS]

Is it right to asume that every planet existing now and those planets coming in the future will have their on programers, creating code for missions and other stuff, whitout that the code not been controled by MA's coders?

If so, we probebly will have some more isuiss like this in the future

MindArk still stands for all coding. The nearest to coding that Planet Partners can do is scripting, such as scripting of quests, achievements and spawns.
MindArk still need to monitor the content.

 

[Mikass]

MindArk still stands for all coding. The nearest to coding that Planet Partners can do is scripting, such as scripting of quests, achievements and spawns.
MindArk still need to monitor the content.

So this mean planet partners can "script" whatever mission rewards they want right? I assume they have some limited range of choices but could they just give 1 stamina for killing 1 mob without interference from MA?
I assume this is what happened on Rocktropia with dozens of attributes being awarded for very mundane and easy tasks.

 

[xaph]

MindArk still stands for all coding. The nearest to coding that Planet Partners can do is scripting, such as scripting of quests, achievements and spawns.
MindArk still need to monitor the content.

Then who got this script coded ?

 

[Xandra]

Hi,

stopped reading at page #16. What a mess again!
(Plz excuse if you wrote later on, maybe I'll read later. Or drop me a line with a link to your post)

This game has been about exploiting bugs from the very beginning. I came quite late (I'm a CND baby).

• But even I have seen ppl sitting in lava pools, auto-FAPping for days, getting insane Anatomy and First Aid - invaluable skills.
• And even I have seen ppl hiding in trees, surrounded by wast amounts of drones, auto-FAPping for days, getting insane Dodge, Anatomy and First Aid - invaluable skills.
• I have seen ppl abusing poor path-finding algorithms of huge, dangerous mobs to kill them in a "stucked" mode without any danger. And it wasn't by far not only Spiders ...

Quite some of the ppl I have seen in the past times, doing such, are still active. They are what we consider as "Ubers" now. For sure, I cannot say that all "Ubers" are exploiters - I have just seen personally not this many of them doing so. A lot of area's was locked to me then, since I was a real nOOb these times ...

And I have to admit, I exploited, too.
Zychion, Bridge. We used to lure young Atrox below the bridge from quite far away (in team-work with multiple deaths), then sweated them dry from above, in safety. Then lured them to the turret, again in team-work with multiple deaths. We got sh*tloads of skills in "Having fun" and "Socialization", and quite few in "Sweat Gathering" - we met the sweat cap quite fast anyway. Even the sweat gain was, seen for the time spent, lower then any nOOb could get at Nea's these days.
For sure half of EF damned it, and it was removed. Yes, I'm an evil exploiter, too, it seems. Exploited the game to have fun. Too bad I'm not good in exploiting. Killed an Atrox Old once, that chased me all over the map, finally got stuck behind a tree, with unamped Opalo ages ago. Got nice loot even. Thought about, and decided not to do again. Well, it's lame, right? Some ppl, like me, are just too stupid to survive in todays world, it seems.

But what will happen now? Will the ones exploiting the poorly done RT missions will get stripped of their skills? Will they get banned, maybe even forever?

Let's have a look at the past - what happened in such cases? Yep, nothing. If it is an exploit worth actually using, and actually making a profit possible, there'll be few able to utilize it. And these few will be people that either are EU PR partners, or people that MA don't want to hurt - the big depositors.

Nothing will happen. Again. In the worst case those avatars will have to change their name, and their appearance. We know the procedure.

Have fun!

 

[Oleg]

I was concerned enough to sit on my days off watching this thread and bug other people on their days off about the matter.

While you're considering your concerns, can you also be concerned about the devaluation of the Reputation system due to Rep points (which are supposed to be exclusively available to event participants) being used as a mission reward by NDS?

Sorry for the slight off-topic, just thought I'd mention it while you were here

 

[JD RACING]

you guy ban them if they used the bug for profit

the mission i was up there but never got the chance to do them i was doing the zombie mission

so any one that did it multiple time could get ban

what a bout the poeple that were looting the scanners and in the markup page saw it was sold for over 7kpeds were looteing them like candy

wich one you think was worst

for me both if you ban one person ban all the poeple in the 2 events that happen

one is easy to fix like the stamina and agility

the other one no so easy but they could have pull all item looted and give a reward x amount per item looted and woulnd have damage the mu on the scanners and yank the item that were not suppose to be there in the first place

the way i see this game now

if there a problem do i keep going and hope MA is on my side or fear to get ban if the dont need me

 

[shoti]

MindArk still stands for all coding. The nearest to coding that Planet Partners can do is scripting, such as scripting of quests, achievements and spawns.
MindArk still need to monitor the content.

So basicaly in theory it is possible that new PP will make quest when full shadow set will be prize for kiling 10 basic mobs (script only) ?

 

[NotVF]

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[Hanne|SDS]

So basicaly in theory it is possible that new PP will make quest when full shadow set will be prize for kiling 10 basic mobs (script only) ?

PP's cant just add quest rewards completely as they please, no.

 

[SpikeBlack]

By allowing such missions to be implemented MA sends a wrong signal to the people, that the ones doing balancing are total amateurs; not that we didn`t know that already.

if all planets implement such missions then people will be able to reach levels far easier than ever before.

If an item is given then it only gives the tt value as so many would be available it wouldn't carry any markup.

When we've got 5 planets all giving out missions with attributes as the pay off it begins the make the whole thing pointless.

Give items for some missions (especially the low level ones for newbies) and achievements for the others.

 

[The Rising Star]

That depends on how you define "concern us". Any issues with other planet partner's content has to be resolved by that planet partner or by MindArk, and we can't speak for any other planet partner. In that sense, those issues doesn't concern us.

Wow are you serious with this comment !? What happens on another planet does concern you and every other planet partner when it affects the player base on your planet to the extent that they leave one planet for another in order to get an advantage. Honestly if this is your official answer which i think it is from SEE then there is no hope for you and Calypso. I'll pack my bag for RT or some other planet now lmao... wow amazing you think it does not concern you

 

[NotVF]

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[Tree-doctor]

Well, with one PP already doing this, other PPs cannot help but follow suit, or be forced to accept that unscrupulous business practises will give a particular competitor an edge. While honest PPs will do their best to pull in new people, as per the PP contract, one PP will just be relying on giveaways to bottom-feed off the rest of the universe's population by actively devaluating investments made by participants, hoping that the short term their giveaways will attract people to their planet will be enough to keep the planet running.

Or enough to close the business with some hundred K$ in the pocket.

 

[The Rising Star]

MindArk still stands for all coding. The nearest to coding that Planet Partners can do is scripting, such as scripting of quests, achievements and spawns.
MindArk still need to monitor the content.

So this means that entire witch hunt on ND playing was unfounded since you (As a planet partner) have just made it clear what is and what is not possible for planet partners. If that is all then no way did he affect the good rt loot or past hof's etc.

 

[Pioneer|SDS]

Wow are you serious with this comment !? What happens on another planet does concern you and every other planet partner when it affects the player base on your planet to the extent that they leave one planet for another in order to get an advantage. Honestly if this is your official answer which i think it is from SEE then there is no hope for you and Calypso. I'll pack my bag for RT or some other planet now lmao... wow amazing you think it does not concern you

You have to look at the matter in its context. When Support gets report of a bug, they notify whom it may concern in order to fix the bug. That someone is either the planet partner whose mission caused the bug, and/or MindArk if steps has to be taken by platform. That's the short term context, and by short term I mean what can be done immediately by support and in the next patch by the planet partner. It involves only those parties: support, platform and the planet partner that caused the bug.

Then there is another perspective, the one that you put forth: players will react to the issue, and we have to act on players' reaction in one way or the other. In this context it concerns us, but these are long-term concerns! It involves defining a strategy and implementing that strategy. That takes time. It cannot and should not be handled over a weekend, especially if it is just a bug.

 

[-Archangel-]

MindArk still stands for all coding. The nearest to coding that Planet Partners can do is scripting, such as scripting of quests, achievements and spawns.
MindArk still need to monitor the content.

Thank you for the time you spend answering

But that only means that if a planet partner doesn't get a decent secure platform to write the triggers of the script

it can (sometimes unintencionally) generate a feature that gives their product an advantadge over other planet partners


(or in another words the code that was used on Rocktropia was poorly tested by MA)

 

[remontoire]

Yes... +1.


Not repeatable for +3...

Not repeatable for +10...

Not repeatable for +20...

Not repeatable for +30...

Not repeatable for +50...

Not intentionally. Bugs happens.

 

[remontoire]

Thank you for the time you spend answering

But that only means that if a planet partner doesn't get a decent secure platform to write the triggers of the script

it can (sometimes unintencionally) generate a feature that gives their product an advantadge over other planet partners


(or in another words the code that was used on Rocktropia was poorly tested by MA)

You have solved the stopping problem, I take it.

 

[burnsey]

It cannot and should not be handled over a weekend, especially if it is just a bug.

Let's cross our fingers and hope bugs don't ever occur on weekends, after hours, or on holidays. So basically 75% of the year.

 

[remontoire]

Let's cross our fingers and hope bugs don't ever occur on weekends, after hours, or on holidays. So basically 75% of the year.

BUt teh "a bug is hapenning" part was handled. The missions were disabled. Its the clean-up phase Pioneer is talking about here.

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

If a bug occurs and later all consequences of the bug are rectified, everything would be peachy. However, if said consequences are allowed to permanently devalue other players achievements then there is a high probability of financial damage to the operators of EU in the future. Just my 0.01 PEDs. (It used to be two PECs but they got devalued.)

 

[Miles]

So:

MA is responsible for all balancing, and is responsible for verifying that PP's content and scripting is within whatever parameters are set for all PP's by MA.

Giving out tons of stamina is a bug, but it is a bug on RT, so it "concerns" RT and MA only, from a purely technical standpoint (i.e. bug fix)

It concerns Calypso, too, of course, but only because a bug is affecting platform-wide balancing. If there are problems beyond bugs, these need to be addressed as part of long-term solution between SDS and MA. This will not, and should not, and cannot be rushed into over a weekend.

The fact that Pioneer monitored this over the weekend, and notified higher ups over the weekend, shows that he does indeed take this seriously, and it is a concern, even if it doesn't directly "concern" SDS.

Pioneer/Hanne, please correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems to be what we have been told, both here and in the past, but obviously there is a lot of confusion.


Take a deep breath everyone, it's Monday.



Miles

 

[Fanan]

They can drop whatever they want and have huge rewards for missions....


I promised to myself that I will never visit those planets or buy your loot again!!!




And case sent asking to remove stamina gained from bugged missions!

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

And case sent asking to remove stamina gained from bugged missions!

Please be a dear and let us know if and what they reply! Thank you!

 

[Cani Ostro]

[...] especially if it is just a bug.

Didn't you mention something about "context"?

If the bug give certain players an advantage over others that are a) not aware of it or b) won't exploit it to gain an advantage is a context that make's it not just a "just a bug", no?

Do you draw the line, where it costs -you "SDS"- money or somewhere else? On a deeper level, if there is such "easy" bugs in the game that QA obviously overlooked, how are they dealing with more complex exploits?

Same answer? As long it doesn't cost -you "SD"- money it doesn't matter?

Right now I am a little confused what to think really. I have trusted you guys with several thousand Euros in the past 4,5 years and that is how you deal with the matter? Or "such" matters? That is disappointing.

 

[Hanne|SDS]

Didn't you mention something about "context"?

If the bug give certain players an advantage over others that are a) not aware of it or b) won't exploit it to gain an advantage is a context that make's it not just a "just a bug", no?

Do you draw the line, where it costs -you "SDS"- money or somewhere else? On a deeper level, if there is such "easy" bugs in the game that QA obviously overlooked, how are they dealing with more complex exploits?

Same answer? As long it doesn't cost -you "SD"- money it doesn't matter?

Right now I am a little confused what to think really. I have trusted you guys with several thousand Euros in the past 4,5 years and that is how you deal with the matter? Or "such" matters? That is disappointing.

Im really confused what point you're trying to make here. Draw the line about what? About what bugs we can "allow" on other planets that we haven't developed?

We, "SDS", are not responsible for this bug nor is it on our planet. But of course we care about what effect it makes on our users! However it is not our responsibility or our task to actually fix this bug as it is not ours. Our QA have nothing to do with it. It is up to the directly involved PP and MindArk.

 

[aia]

And I have to admit, I exploited, too.
Zychion, Bridge. We used to lure young Atrox below the bridge from quite far away (in team-work with multiple deaths), then sweated them dry from above, in safety. Then lured them to the turret, again in team-work with multiple deaths. We got sh*tloads of skills in "Having fun" and "Socialization", and quite few in "Sweat Gathering" - we met the sweat cap quite fast anyway. Even the sweat gain was, seen for the time spent, lower then any nOOb could get at Nea's these days.

I don't think that was an exploit - at that time.

South of Numphtown, roughly 1/3 to oil rig at an abandoned umbranoid village, there were pens (fenced areas) and the area was on maps called "Sweat farm". And east of Zychion, at the empty water basins, there were platforms about half way up.
At that time, if a mob got stuck (the "normal" way) it came a public message "Creature is stuck and cannot be damaged" with yellow - however sweating was allowed. It would be very easy to also disable sweating (which also was done). Also, as you wrote, the mobs eventually got dry, you had to take care of the dry ones one way or another, and new ones had to be brought in. I think the key in this was the teamwork.
Later, sweating got explicitly blocked on trapped mobs, probably due to rumors that it was done in commercial proportions.

The server border swesting that occured for a while in vu 9 was a different thing: There mobs didn't attack, they didn't got stuck, and they never got dry. *That* was a clear exploit. As was the spider trapping, you could see from the side that the spider wasn't trapped because of the cliff, but that it was glitching. So, that was also a clear exploit.

(Add to this, mined sweat from Next Island, for which I'm still waiting for official information from MA.)

Is there a value for the people who got stamina/agility from this? First, the obvious: Stamina boosts HP which is an advantage in PVP (let's say persiuts by foot in pvp4 and coming landgrab, if any). And agility makes you run faster (also an advantage in PVP). Secondly, apart from the first mission, to get additional stamina points by completing an iron mission chain probably costs a player at least some thousand peds in costs (probably more if you don't have eco gear). So the peole who did this saved at least 1k ped for each stamina they gained.

 

[Cani Ostro]

Im really confused what point you're trying to make here. Draw the line about what? About what bugs we can "allow" on other planets that we haven't developed?

We, "SDS", are not responsible for this bug nor is it on our planet. But of course we care about what effect it makes on our users! However it is not our responsibility or our task to actually fix this bug as it is not ours. Our QA have nothing to do with it. It is up to the directly involved PP and MindArk.

I am sorry, you are right.

Since MindArk have no official line + I am too old + too long here, I still regard you guys as MindArk staff. I basically jumped the gun on the "just a bug" expression, not really aware of Pioneer speaking as SDS and not as MA staff.

Conclusion: Can we have a MindArk forum?