Mission Rewards Rebalancing

[remontoire]

But I belive these Attributes also increase by skill gain. So unless we know the changes in advance, there is no way to predict if one will have better HP increase by Attributes or by skills, right?

Wrong. Attributes are just like skills, you only get these from doing a profession or from mission rewards - gaining some other skill from missions or chipping does not affect attributes. Just like chipping in rifle does not give you any extra commando, chipping in (or getting from a mission reward) melee combat or longblades doe not give you extra strength.

So if you know the reward, you can know how much it will affect your health.

 

[dr3w]

Thanks for information.


But:
- Agility and fast running: no longer usefull as all mobs outrun us now. Also we have vehicles.
- Strength: no longer usefull since ammo have no weight and the Inventory becomes yellow at 340+ kilos only.

Speed - every improvement of it - shortening "empty" actions like moving between terminals to TPs, and such. Speed leads to higher turnovers, very important. Most superexpensive gear is just FAST.


Strength - in mining (as in long hunting run sessions too) - very important. More you can carry - less "empty" actions. Leads to higher turnovers again.

 

[Terminator]

Wrong. Attributes are just like skills, you only get these from doing a profession or from mission rewards - gaining some other skill from missions or chipping does not affect attributes. Just like chipping in rifle does not give you any extra commando, chipping in (or getting from a mission reward) melee combat or longblades doe not give you extra strength.

So if you know the reward, you can know how much it will affect your health.

Sorry I'm a little retarded..

Is this correct:
- Hunting gives Skills + Attributes + HP.
- Chipping gives Skills + HP.
- Skill Reward gives Skills + HP.
- Attribute Reward gives Attribute + HP.

 

[valentin]

Me as a planet partner am in charge of this re-balancing project but since I have seen a couple of people ask some stuff about MA (or me) that I though I may as well answer to some degree.

Yes, I played back in that time and I know people used to "fap fish" "fap flies" etc, back in the days only to skill agility (granted the cost doing this with a mod fap weren't that high but still it was a 100% loss to gain some agility and doing this for weeks did add up). I started playing PE in september 2003, and have played it since with a couple of breaks here and there. My avatar is 99% naturally skilled (chipped in 10ped FA back in 2004 to max the fap-50), I have played on a very low budget for all this time. Yes I have completed several Iron missions, pretty much all missions up to 1000 and 1 bronze mission.

Hallo..... If you look at how the prices were at the time on skills and how you got the skills..

Let say i had a mod-fap put it on a autoklicker over the night and and then i go to sleep, the fap skilling gave skills all night not like as it is to day that it slows down the skilling after a short time.

And when you wake up you sold this skills for more money then i used to repair the fap
So your words "granted the cost doing this with a mod fap weren't that high but still it was a 100% loss to gain some agility" are not correct...

 

[Robin]

Time can be valuable to.

I know a lot of people now see it as the ubers back in the days used to get 10 agility in a week just for free doing nothing, but that really isn't true. Yes it was easier back then, but they did work really hard for those points. Does it really matter? No not really, except for something to show of.



Well in this case the change will benefit the newer players since it will be easier to get skills instead of attributes that barely do anything. So it's the opposite of what you are saying.

All these six years I have been fooled or fooling myself into thinking attributes mean something big and are the only way I can tell my avatar is actually getting better and able to come up to some sort of ability to support itself in game...This statement here is a big letdown and certainly will make me think twice about continuing playing as hard as I have been...I was really proud that I had such high attributes from playing so long and spending tons of time and cash on missions..Now you say they don't really mean anything ...wow!! a real eye opener..One thing I would like to know is if they barely do anything then why are they so slow to raise?? Why not let them raise much faster naturally?

 

[Terminator]

All these six years I have been fooled or fooling myself into thinking attributes mean something big and are the only way I can tell my avatar is actually getting better and able to come up to some sort of ability to support itself in game...This statement here is a big letdown and certainly will make me think twice about continuing playing as hard as I have been...I was really proud that I had such high attributes from playing so long and spending tons of time and cash on missions..Now you say they don't really mean anything ...wow!! a real eye opener..One thing I would like to know is if they barely do anything then why are they so slow to raise?? Why not let them raise much faster naturally?

Wow, I missed this MA post you quoted.

Hmmm, so if they say Attributes are just "something to show off", it's better to slow down the missions, wait for August and have skills instead.

 

[remontoire]

Sorry I'm a little retarded..

Is this correct:
- Hunting gives Skills + Attributes + HP.
- Chipping gives Skills + HP.
- Skill Reward gives Skills + HP.
- Attribute Reward gives Attribute + HP.

Close enough.

 

[Mack]

Sorry I'm a little retarded..

Is this correct:
- Hunting gives Skills + Attributes + HP.
- Chipping gives Skills + HP.
- Skill Reward gives Skills + HP.
- Attribute Reward gives Attribute + HP.

You kind of have it right, but not all skills (including Attribute skills) contribute to HP increases, so not all Skill Rewards or Attribute Rewards will increase HP.

I think it's better to think of it this way. Attributes are just one category of skills, other categories being Combat, Construction, General, Defense, etc. There are two categories you can't chip in, those being Attributes and Social.

If you go out and shoot mobs, craft, mine, etc, you will gain skills, some of which will be in the Attribute category, most will be in other profession specific categories.

You can check out the Skills section of Entropedia, or better yet, a great Chip Optimizer tool by jdegre - http://jdegre.net/pe/unlocker.php which will show you the relationship between professsions/health and the specific skills.

Good luck.

 

[valentin]

All these six years I have been fooled or fooling myself into thinking attributes mean something big and are the only way I can tell my avatar is actually getting better and able to come up to some sort of ability to support itself in game...This statement here is a big letdown and certainly will make me think twice about continuing playing as hard as I have been...I was really proud that I had such high attributes from playing so long and spending tons of time and cash on missions..Now you say they don't really mean anything ...wow!! a real eye opener..One thing I would like to know is if they barely do anything then why are they so slow to raise?? Why not let them raise much faster naturally?

Noo ( attributes mean something ). How many times have you seen in this forum ppl write - i had so and so much in agility i was able to outrun this mob today i have more agility but i cant outrun this mob.
Thats MA......

The attributes are only status in the game now days.

I do not know but when the MA writes about " re-balancing " i thinking automatically on nerfs.

 

[Neil Stockton]

- Agility and fast running: no longer usefull as all mobs outrun us now. Also we have vehicles.

I have to disagree. Running speed is important for miners and hunters (especially melee), it can shave off hours spent doing nothing but running to your target. You don't notice the impact of speed because your avatar only runs at one speed. But If you play side by side with a newbie, you'll see the difference.

- Strength: no longer useful since ammo have no weight and the Inventory becomes yellow at 340+ kilos only.

Not true. Newbies walk slow at 150 kg.

 

[Jimmy B]

- Agility and fast running: no longer usefull as all mobs outrun us now.

I agree the speed gain you get from agility isn't particularly significant to anything these days. But there are still plenty of mobs you can outrun. In fact, I've been working on the Traeskeron mission lately, and you can even out-walk those.

- Strength: no longer usefull since ammo have no weight and the Inventory becomes yellow at 340+ kilos only.

I still go yellow/red from time to time so it's not useless.

Is this correct:
- Hunting gives Skills + Attributes + HP.

Hunting gives skills and attributes. Skills (some) and attributes give HP.

 

[Terminator]

I have to disagree. Running speed is important for miners and hunters, it can shave off hours spent merely running. You don't notice the impact of speed because your avatar only runs at one speed. But If you play side by side with a newbie, you'll see the difference.

Not true. Newbies walk slow at 150 kg.

Yes, I agree with you. My vision was kinda selfish, i.e. my avatar is not really affected by these attributes.


Ok, so after carefully reading the whole thread and asking my noobish questions:
- I agree with MA that the system had to be fixed, and later improved.
- However, they should have expected our reaction and give more details. At least many good information are given by MA as answers.
- I will continue my started missions excepted the "Nova" ones. In two months I will re-anaylze the situation based on new information and decide to boost or suspend some missions.


Thanks all ppl who answered me, and back to work. :/

 

[Liberty EXR-5]

I think many are thinking of Mission Rewards Rebalancing in different ways. It could mean more BP rewards like on other planets or more tokens less attributes or more skills rewards. For me personally I will just stay with my 10k attribute missions that I have started and not go to Cyrene until 21st August, which was something I was looking forward to. Its all very well saying we have a little secret but we wont tell you, fine ok dont tell us why didnt you just wait till August 21st that way no problem.... like introducing mission tokens which undermine price of angel UL and consequently price of other UL armors. Now there are so many L armors the price of those is often near TT. Balancing needed ? I'd say u bet ur bottom dollar it does but I guess most of us are there already.

 

[Neil Stockton]

My whole take on attributes.... since they're unchippable and therefore the only real measure of how much an avatar has "played". Skills you can chip in, just depo enough and you can become an uber in a year. But attributes, you earn. So, I think 1) they should have some highly desirable effects and 2) you shouldn't get them from missions. That makes them more like skills you can chip in.

 

[Lugzan]

...Does it really matter? No not really, except for something to show of...

wait a minute - so far we knew that at least one attribute makes you move faster. is that not the case then?

ah, the drama...


J.

 

[Xen]

As I said earlier I will try to get such a list done as soon as possible, but the actual re-balancing will have to be done first, perhaps a couple of examples could be provided along the way though.

Anyway I have to sleep now so any further answers from me will have to wait until tomorrow.

Not to rush you, but we really need a list of all the attribute rewards that will be removed or moved somewhere else, and/or where they will be added. We need that list soon as people only have 4 months to go out and get what they want before it disappears. Giving us some time was good, but right now we are blind. I'd say this is really needed within a week, two weeks at most. At least decide what is going to be removed if not yet what skill reward will replace it, you can work on that later, internally.

Also, from what I understand some RT missions have already been changed, we should get a list of those also. For example, I wouldn't want to go kill 500 phasm to find out that the intelligence reward is no longer there.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

wait a minute - so far we knew that at least one attribute makes you move faster. is that not the case then?

Agility still makes you run faster, strength makes you able to carry more, other than that the attributes only give some health gains, more or less...

Which makes that statement by Charlie quite weird, especially since many people skill simply because they want to see attributes increase and make their avatars better? I just hope they will all have a use like agility and strength does sometime...

 

[RobBuona]

In order to provide a fair, exciting and challenging experience for all Entropia Universe participants, revised guidelines for proper balancing of mission rewards have been provided to the Planet Partners.

Just a side note...any time the word "challenging" is used in a published statement, you know it's not something you will like.

Oops - this was supposed to go in Rick's thread.

 

[valentin]

The 4 month notice is for ALL missions not only Calypso. The reason the Catscapades mission didn't get any notice was because it awarded far to much skills compared to any other mission on any planet.

A before/after list of the missions or at least a couple of examples will probably be provided in the near future.

Just look what you at MA has wroted..

These new guidelines require that the current skill and attribute rewards must be adjusted for all missions on all planets. The actual adjustment of rewards will be implemented with the Planet Partner release scheduled for August 21, 2012. After the August release, any missions already in progress will provide the adjusted rewards rather than the rewards previously given.


So you break your word already.

 

[Grandmaster]

I hope you keep the Stamina gain.

Yes please keep the stamina gains.

 

[burnsey]

Agility still makes you run faster, strength makes you able to carry more, other than that the attributes only give some health gains, more or less...

Which makes that statement by Charlie quite weird, especially since many people skill simply because they want to see attributes increase and make their avatars better? I just hope they will all have a use like agility and strength does sometime...

Not really, because since vehicles came ingame all these abilities are negligible.

 

[RickEngland]

1 main thing here MA:

You MUST publish all the rewards after you nerf the system because there is so much work involved in making the list with missions and what rewards they are offering , in fact it's not even finished yet and you are planning on changing the whole system again

For the sake of all of us please post those rewards after you finish the missions revamp, be it in a complete list posted on EU website or at least at the mission broker for each mob, and I am not talking only for the first stage, but for the whole mission chain for that mob in order for us to decide if we want to go to the 10K mission or not.....it's not funny to kill kkk mobs to reach the 10K one and then find out that it only give...20 PED TT Rifle or so

So please, if you want to show some good faith publish all the rewards fot all the missions and have some respect for the work some people here have done do make that allready!

This post deserves +rep from everyone. I can live with this moving forward, if it happens. But we need it fast, as the clock is ticking.

Rick.

 

[ClarkKent]

There will be no retroactive refunds or reimbursements for missions that have already been completed.

Thats pretty cruel,
(at mindarks office)
HEY GUYS, remember the time those suckers did 5k atrox/feff/spiders and got 1000 nova?

 

[Fishface]

In my mind, the problem is very simple. An avatar starting the game today will have no chance.
Skill gains were greater in previous days as well as mission rewards being different. The new avatar of today will never, ever be able to catch up to the older players.
All well and good, until an event comes around and the best drops will go to the people with the higher skills. After all, they "earned" it.

Either apply all changes retroactively or uncouple loot rewards with skill levels entirely.

 

[remontoire]

In my mind, the problem is very simple. An avatar starting the game today will have no chance.

And avatars that are starting now, or really since some point in last year will have even less of a chance, as the goalposts are getting moved again on August 21, and all new / newish players will almost certainly lose out.

And yet we are supposed to advertise this to friends? Come to Entropia where they will for ever continue to make your life harder and harder compared to those that joined before? Yeah, right.

 

[ClarkKent]

And avatars that are starting now, or really since some point in last year will have even less of a chance, as the goalposts are getting moved again on August 21, and all new / newish players will almost certainly lose out.

And yet we are supposed to advertise this to friends? Come to Entropia where they will for ever continue to make your life harder and harder compared to those that joined before? Yeah, right.

You advertise this to your friends? Are you nuts?
Back in the day I used to advertise this game so much, because everything was possible, it was possible to own great gear.

How can you advertise this game now? Join EU.. their is a good chance you will get robbed everytime you play, you'll never own anything good unless you win the RL lottery.

You know.. for a dynamic game system, Mindark sure has a lot of control over the dynamics

 

[RickEngland]

In my mind, the problem is very simple. An avatar starting the game today will have no chance.

Did Kim say in the radio interview that he is close to finishing the game.

even if I said I'm brave enough to accept Entropia reloaded and we all start from scratch, in 5 years we will have the same problem again.

hard one to fix.

 

[xian]

Why don't you keep missions as they are, call them legacy ones.
And release a bunch of new mission with your new critreria.

Expand the universe, not nerf it as you always do :/

 

[Shadowsong]

Some of us participate in the spirit of "colonists exploring a new universe", and regard the avatars as, well, avatars , extensions of our consciousness in this new realm.

Some of us participate in the spirit of "strip mine the system to lead a race for all the points", and regard the avatar as nothing more than a point harvester.

The Universe is offering too few rewards to the former, and too many to the latter.

If the universe is attractive to the former, then they will populate the universe with consumer avatars, who will spend money on things like clothing, and makeup, and hairstyles. All those things that never pop up in a "What's a good eco setup for....?" threads.

You want to know who is cranking down the loot returns?

It's every eco player in game, that is who. It is a simple, logical sequitur that as the percentage of eco players rises, the amount of "loose ped" diminishes. MA is not dynamic - they are running a business, with a very precise profit model. The Universe is dynamic because we make it so, and our current dynamic is driving margins down on all fronts.

We need to find a way to attract those who will be less concerned with squeezing every pec out of the pixels, and more interested in becoming permanent settlers in a fascinating alternative existence.

Endless grinding for the sole purpose of being able to grind better is not fun. We can do that IRL for far greater reward with far less risk or input cost.

Play more, grind less. Live as an Entropian.

 

[Joat]

Even thou' it could be boring for some, I think you should remove the gambling
aspect in doing a new mission, not knowing the reward.
(Make a option for those few that don't want to see the reward, if it now is
so importent to discover things, for them... )
This info should be showned at mission broker.
Because all you do with keeping this hidden, is to screw some very few
brave testpilots...