My loot theory

[Nuno Bunero]

nvm..........

 

[GoNi]

11) If its really going badly, there is always chatting, sweating, fruit and stone finding.
[/COLOR]

If its really really bad, check the tracker if there happened any UBER loot on what you actually doing.
If not, continue. UBER is very close!
But be prepared, someone else may get the UBER and then its time to take your loss like a man, and change to something else

 

[CrazyBuck]

After beeing pretty hooked on this game for almost 5 years now I have a few points of view I'd like to share with the loottheory department here

I think, as someone stated before, that the 2) and 3) are a bit contradictory.. Either it's random, otherwise it's not.. Theory 3) about the system attempting to pay you back 90% of your losses implies that the system has a goal, and that it's not acting out of randomness... But i guess you mean that in a way like for example flipping coin has a "system" behind the curtains "attempting" to give heads/tails exactly 50% of the time? or do you think that for example a player that hit 10k crude oil on his first ever probe in game has lower expectation to get a good payback than a person with 100k probes dropped and a low avg return on thier next probe?

Anyway, in the other recommendations about for example not spending all your ped to kill 5 leviathan and instead kill 50 feffs, its nothing but a question of risk.. and nothing says that one or the other would be the most profitable decision (other than the diff in avg MU on the loot).. But if the question was about how to make your peds safe and probably last longer, youre right.. and then chatting and picking fruit is always right way to go

Also i have to comment on the "You are paying for entertainment, no subscription. Cinemas, pubs, nightclubs & casinos don't offer refunds." Always good to think about! and playing (putting peds in motion, not chatting) this game is extremly enjoyable when things are going your way.. But when those losing days/weeks/months/(years?) come, it's rather a feeling of fueling the demon that you both love and hate, aka addiction. And when those feelings come I will also agree on 4) about taking a break.. but not for the reason that there would be any better loot later. Just because you enjoy it so much more when beeing on top of your life and economy!

My opinion in short about this game and its loot: Embrace the randomness!

Peace!

 

[travrevyen]

1) Everything you lose in Entropia is noted, and recorded for future reference. (I don't Know about that, It would take alot of memory don't You think, But it is true everything You do With Your money/Loot is recorded
2) When your losses are paid back is random. I don't Think so
3) Entropia attempts to repay / stop you losing more than 90% of TT value over the long term.No You can lose all, they don't care. Just Don't Spend too much on repair/Decay
4) Lost a lot? Take a week off, see what happens when you return.I can't have to play every single day. It's like smoking or drinking. But it's not gambling at all
5) If one profession just doesn't seem to be working, try one of the other two.That is very very expensive, but it might work for You I don't know
6) You'll have bad days and good days - see 1).It is all bout how You play/use your money
7) Timing is important - or is it? Not sure, some say it is, some say it isn't.It's just luck. Other people have to lose before You can win. It's is not fair. Casino slot machines are.
8) Location is important - or is it? Not sure, some say it is, some say it isn't.It has nothing to do with that. Location means nothing. There is one big Loot for the entire Planet. Maybe for the Whole Universe? No only One planet I think
9) People making Ped in Entropia tend to be v. quiet on forum, spot them, and copy them if possible.HeHe
10) Mark-up is important, whether you hunt, mine or craft, try and sell for more than TT.Yes very important. If Loot is TT'ed You will garanteed Lose. But how can You sell Your Loot on Auction If nobody want to buy?
11) If its really going badly, there is always chatting, sweating, fruit and stone finding.
12) And trading (although you may be called names )
13) If you see a post from someone claiming to be doing well - see 9)
14) You are paying for entertainment, no subscription. Cinemas, pubs, nightclubs & casinos don't offer refunds.I wish I could pay like 200 UsD/Month and be garanteed a Hall Of fame entry
15) Are you using equipment that you can use at 100% efficiency? Dont complain about losses if not.This is interesting. Then I must always use L weapons? or buy UL Sib Weapons? I can't pay 30 000 PED.
16) Hunt / mine / craft within your personal budget. For ex - dont hunt Proteron if you only have 200 ped.True

 

[travrevyen]

How can I say that with such Determination? Ýou might think. Well Look at Yesterdays 93K Ped Leviathan. I noticed alot of poeple where hunting them so what have they done with ther loot. They probaly TT'ed it. And what happens? It goes back to the lootpot, but not for them to loot again, for somebody else.

Like myself I TT'ed all my loot from Auction on -Arkadia Auction. There was abot 1100 PEd. So I thought To myself, Now Auro Thilly will get a big Hof, Because I have noticed her name alot. And what did She get? 14K PED So I think If You TT Your llot someone else will get it, not You.

 

[DoubleWolf]

3) Entropia attempts to repay / stop you losing more than 90% of TT value over the long term.No You can lose all, they don't care. Just Don't Spend too much on repair/Decay

I think this one confuses a lot of people. Don't mistake 90% TT return with 90% overall.

You will, on average, get ~90% back of what you spend in TT value. But you will not get back 90% of your ped card, or what you have deposited over the long term.

The common example is this. Start with 100 ped, and assume a 90% average return:

100 ped x 90% = 90 ped
90 ped x 90% = 81 ped
81 ped x 90% = 73 ped
73 ped x 90% = 66 ped
66 ped x 90% = 59 ped
59 ped x 90% = 53 ped
53 ped x 90% = 48 ped

In total, you would have spent 522 ped and received 470 ped in return. A 90% TT return on ped spent. However, as you can see, your current balance is only 48 ped. This would show a total return of only 48%. You could continue this all the way until you have nothing left, and it would be a complete loss.

So both statements are true here. You can lose all your money AND you can expect a 90% average TT return over time. Any large loots you receive would be expected to bring you back to your 90% average of total TT spent, and NOT to bring you back to 90% of your total amount deposited/lost.

 

[Spawn]

2005.

Regen gets reflected in the loot, so to clarify, you're saying that the armor/fap costs are too high for those players with low DPS?

It's not that black and white. Back in 2004 I looted a 1200 pedder off a molisk young. Guess what became my favourite mob to hunt? Molisk.
I have hunted Molisk for 7 years now. You may have done research on regen being payed back but I knew exactly what I could expect from Molisk. And no I didn't write it down scientifically.

In 2004 a molisk young would typically loot 78 pecs per mob (=loot without mini's/globals). The cost to hunt it was 55 pecs with the axe 1x0 which did 28 damage. Loot included pecs, teeth 1-4, shogun armour parts, king carbine, angel gloves etc.

Later on axe 1x0 was nerfed because it was "bugged". So it only did 24 damage anymore. Luckily Opalo got introduced.
The molisk still had the same loot but couldn't be hunted as profitable anymore cost rose to 65 pecs with the opalo/a105.

Molisk loot was changed, bigger molisk dropped more teeth (up to 20 I think) . Ofcourse this didn't help the markup..

Amps were nerfed and you could only use an 101 on the opalo, leading to an increase of cost to kill to 70 pecs.

You could still break even/ profit and hunt molisk up to guardian

Then a Major drawback, the loot system changed. A lot more "no more loot" messages and Mindark said, that one of them had a bigger price. Casino type system. Eco became Schmeco because you could no longer rely on typical loot.
Also pecs were removed from the system and replaced with oils. It was harder to see what your typical loot was.

Then it got regen, but Mindark also did something else. They changed the loot, King rifle no longer dropped and shogun parts became more scarce. the dmg/sec became more important than dmg/pec

After regen opalo/101 could only be used on the young. You would struggle with the adults leading to a lot more armour decay. Cost to kill rose again while typical loot dropped, leading to a situation where typical loot became lower than the cost to kill it. Only with mini's/globals/hofs were you able to break even.

Now Mikemoo, you researched that regen gets payed back.

Still.. I don't hunt Molisk anymore, because of all of the above. Hunting molisk is not worth it anymore, unless you are lucky. And lucky is not what I am.
I do hunt bristlehog. It became my new molisk.. and it doesn't have regen (yet)

 

[DoubleWolf]

... leading to a situation where typical loot became lower than the cost to kill it. Only with mini's/globals/hofs were you able to break even.

On average, shouldn't this always true? Otherwise, you would be creating more peds then you are spending, and would do away with the whole idea of "entropy" in the game.

You seem upset that MA changed it to the way it was supposed to be. Not surprising. They took away your source of profit. If you found a way to profit at the TT, congratulations. But you should have known it wouldn't last because that's not the way the system was intended to work.

 

[ermik]

I think this one confuses a lot of people. Don't mistake 90% TT return with 90% overall.

You will, on average, get ~90% back of what you spend in TT value. But you will not get back 90% of your ped card, or what you have deposited over the long term.

The common example is this. Start with 100 ped, and assume a 90% average return:

100 ped x 90% = 90 ped
90 ped x 90% = 81 ped
81 ped x 90% = 73 ped
73 ped x 90% = 66 ped
66 ped x 90% = 59 ped
59 ped x 90% = 53 ped
53 ped x 90% = 48 ped

In total, you would have spent 522 ped and received 470 ped in return. A 90% TT return on ped spent. However, as you can see, your current balance is only 48 ped. This would show a total return of only 48%. You could continue this all the way until you have nothing left, and it would be a complete loss.

So both statements are true here. You can lose all your money AND you can expect a 90% average TT return over time. Any large loots you receive would be expected to bring you back to your 90% average of total TT spent, and NOT to bring you back to 90% of your total amount deposited/lost.

Listen to this guy , hes on the right lead here.

cheers

ermik

 

[wizzszz]

1) Everything you lose in Entropia is noted, and recorded for future reference. (I don't Know about that, It would take alot of memory don't You think, But it is true everything You do With Your money/Loot is recorded

Why would it "take a lot of memory" to just maintain a SINGLE "PED_lost" counter in the database?

 

[Spawn]

On average, shouldn't this always true? Otherwise, you would be creating more peds then you are spending, and would do away with the whole idea of "entropy" in the game.

You seem upset that MA changed it to the way it was supposed to be. Not surprising. They took away your source of profit. If you found a way to profit at the TT, congratulations. But you should have known it wouldn't last because that's not the way the system was intended to work.

What makes you think I am upset?

 

[DoubleWolf]

What makes you think I am upset?

Well, not only from that post, but from many of your other posts on this forum.

All the nerfing that occurred (which I would venture to guess is one of the things you're most upset about) was in response to exactly what you mentioned in your post. It was possible to bring in more TT value than spent overall. So your axe got nerfed, your Opalo + A105 combo got nerfed, and it brought things to the way they were intended to operate.

It's not hard to see how being able to consistently profit at the TT would be bad for the game. Just look at the recent amp bug...

 

[Mega]

1)15) Are you using equipment that you can use at 100% efficiency? Dont complain about losses if not.This is interesting. Then I must always use L weapons? or buy UL Sib Weapons? I can't pay 30 000 PED.

I suggest you do use L weapons and there are plenty of UL Sib weapons that dont cost anything like 30,000ped.

I was against L weapons when first introduced way back, but now I see why they were introduced, and recommend them. However, the choice is yours.

 

[Mischief]

..
I was against L weapons when first introduced way back, but now I see why they were introduced, and recommend them. However, the choice is yours.

First, a very interesting thread. Opposing "the truth" is always educational. Some people really thought this through.

But to address the quote, Why were (L) weapons introduced in your opinion?

 

[Mega]

But to address the quote, Why were (L) weapons introduced in your opinion?

Well in my opinion, it was around the time of the big skill nerf when it was made much harder to reach level 100, and so L weapons could be used at maximum efficiency as getting to level 100 wasn't a realistic proposition for 99% of us. Still isn't.

There's a graph somewhere of the way skills were changed to show how dramatic a change it was.

I think there is some evidence that using old school weaponry is "ok" at around level 75, I hope to find out in due course.

 

[conners1010]

After almost 2 years ive seen this . Remember this is for my AVA so dont neg rep me whatever for this .

Grind and Whine and loose , But remember u get skills wich I dont .

My approach is in and out fast , the Global always occur on the first 5-10 mobs , if not I just turn around and do something else , or just soc chat ,clean storage , sort my stuff in my flat or anything else that needs to be done

I dont just logg in and grind , i try to think a bit and guess where my ava is having the best shot ,or drop

And Perc works whatever u all think

TAC
Soc leader
Ice Cold

Very interesting, i've totally opposite views!

It is quite strange how people can have complete opposite experiences of the same thing lol. I have to disagree with the in and out quick theory too. (although i have had good perception experiences)
My tracker record would be a lot more grim if i hadn't stuck out my hunts right to the end, on quite a few occasions.
Only once or twice do I remember globalling quickly after starting to hunt. And it has happened once to me when i have hoffed on the first mob. good day lol. Feff.

I think there is some evidence that using old school weaponry is "ok" at around level 75, I hope to find out in due course.

Good luck with that one mate hopefully i can join you one day in years to come for a jester D-1 argo hunt
My personal opinion, no proof of course and it doesn't always work. but moving around and trying different spawns of the same mob or group of particular mobs I hunt, In different places, seems to improve my loot. as i used to camp a lot in the same spot. in the future i will try camping the same spots again and see if it has any different effect.
As you say though its all theory and I can change this too at any time It's probably completely wrong

Good to see some opinions.

Conners

 

[fluske]

Well in my opinion, it was around the time of the big skill nerf when it was made much harder to reach level 100, and so L weapons could be used at maximum efficiency as getting to level 100 wasn't a realistic proposition for 99% of us. Still isn't.

There's a graph somewhere of the way skills were changed to show how dramatic a change it was.

I think there is some evidence that using old school weaponry is "ok" at around level 75, I hope to find out in due course.

im level 88 but its still cheaper for me to use (l) then an oldschool ul weapon

 

[wizzszz]

Well in my opinion, it was around the time of the big skill nerf when it was made much harder to reach level 100, and so L weapons could be used at maximum efficiency as getting to level 100 wasn't a realistic proposition for 99% of us. Still isn't.

That's a reason for SIB, but not for (L).



(L) stuff has been introduced to create a constant demand - look at crafted UL stuff, it will be TT+0 sooner or later, simply because there's a saturation effect (one day everyone will have one, nobody wants one anymore and the next sale will crash the market)

SIB was meant as an incentive to buy (L) shit, but seeing tests for hit/miss rates (L) vs. UL i doubt it works as we think:
Using (L) stuff simply triggers an "early payout"...


IMO they didn't even go far enough: Blueprints should be restricted to a certain number of clicks/day, this way it would not be possible that a single crafter covers all the demand (unless he owns several blueprints for the same item) - monopolies are a bad thing.

 

[CeePee]

I would also suggest adding the type of the loot you get, I'm 99% sure there's something to track the amount of items ingame also - hunting only feffs for a few months there surely was waves of H400 dropping.

First there was only TB dropping (And they keep dropping since everyone TT's them and they go "back to the pool"), many weeks and not a single H400. Then all of a sudden almost all of the globals were Korss H400, at this time there was only a few on auction. Then as the auction filled with H400's (3 pages), they suddenly stopped dropping and loot went back to the normal oil and TB parts. Also with occasional Riker UL1 & UL3 and Martial.

The change in drops was so dramatic and the market situation clearly showed to me it wasn't just random luck with drops.

 

[kosmos]

IMO they didn't even go far enough: Blueprints should be restricted to a certain number of clicks/day

I think they do that with L prints, well with the ones that don't loot like there is no tommorrow (cough welding wires )

I would also suggest adding the type of the loot you get, I'm 99% sure there's something to track the amount of items ingame also - hunting only feffs for a few months there surely was waves of H400 dropping.

First there was only TB dropping (And they keep dropping since everyone TT's them and they go "back to the pool"), many weeks and not a single H400. Then all of a sudden almost all of the globals were Korss H400, at this time there was only a few on auction. Then as the auction filled with H400's (3 pages), they suddenly stopped dropping and loot went back to the normal oil and TB parts. Also with occasional Riker UL1 & UL3 and Martial.

The change in drops was so dramatic and the market situation clearly showed to me it wasn't just random luck with drops.

There probably is a fixed number or total tt set for guns and certain resources in game. That might be why it appears sometimes things are turned literally on and off. I think its some sort of auto mechanism to avoid causing things to be tt food totally and probably to make farming harder.

 

[ermik]

There probably is a fixed number or total tt set for guns and certain resources in game. That might be why it appears sometimes things are turned literally on and off. I think its some sort of auto mechanism to avoid causing things to be tt food totally and probably to make farming harder.

yes that is correct.

cheers

ermik

 

[Xavier_Jr]

....
3) Entropia attempts to repay / stop you losing more than 90% of TT value over the long term.
....

What do you understand by "long term"?

Obviously is not a measurement of time. Its a measurement of spending... or inclusive (spending / time)...

But when people said "long term", how long is "long term"? You can try an explanation in terms about cycling of (X)K peds. Or in terms of (X) K peds cycled / day.. etc...

As is your theory, maybe you have an opinion about that.

 

[Sheina]

What do you understand by "long term"?

I would say a million peds cycled

in my opinion is fucking lot , but I think is close to reality

 

[Xavier_Jr]

I would say a million peds cycled

in my opinion is fucking lot , but I think is close to reality

hehe.. maybe...

 

[DoubleWolf]

But when people said "long term", how long is "long term"? You can try an explanation in terms about cycling of (X)K peds. Or in terms of (X) K peds cycled / day.. etc...

I use "long term" quite a bit too when talking about loot returns. I don't think you can give a hard number on it due to the fact everyone plays at different speeds and at different costs. Someone might spend 1000 ped in a day while another might only spend 20. Someone might kill 1000 Atrox in one day while another would only kill 100 snables.

My advice is usually to keep enough ped on hand to do at least 1000 of what ever you're doing. 1000 kills, 1000 mining drops, 1000 craft attempts. Depending on where you are in your cycle, you may or may not get to ~90% in that time, but from my own findings, you'll never be below 80%

 

[Mega]

What do you understand by "long term"?

Obviously is not a measurement of time. Its a measurement of spending... or inclusive (spending / time)...

But when people said "long term", how long is "long term"? You can try an explanation in terms about cycling of (X)K peds. Or in terms of (X) K peds cycled / day.. etc...

As is your theory, maybe you have an opinion about that.

I would imagine between 1 month - 3 months should be sufficient providing you are playing at a sufficiently active level (ie a few times a week)

 

[Mischief]

I would imagine between 1 month - 3 months should be sufficient providing you are playing at a sufficiently active level (ie a few times a week)

Not saying you are wrong in that assumption, Mega, but I don't think it's all that easy.
1-3 months is a way to short period of time to get your average 90%, if I read the posts here right.
I play 6 days/week, 2-5 hours at the time. Small depositor, approx $100 per month and of of course play accordingly, ie Proteron and such is out, since there's no way you can expect to profit on those with those amount of peds. At least, I can't. Tried it on few occasions so not guessing.
Problem is that overall loot over a month never exceeds 60-70% at best, and if you use another way of counting returns, no matter how much peds I cycle I always end up having to deposit another $100 per month to continue.

Not complaining, there is no such thing as a free lunch in this game, but just feel that we're talking about wrong numbers here when discussing a 90% return.

 

[Mega]

Not saying you are wrong in that assumption, Mega, but I don't think it's all that easy.
1-3 months is a way to short period of time to get your average 90%, if I read the posts here right.
I play 6 days/week, 2-5 hours at the time. Small depositor, approx $100 per month and of of course play accordingly, ie Proteron and such is out, since there's no way you can expect to profit on those with those amount of peds. At least, I can't. Tried it on few occasions so not guessing.
Problem is that overall loot over a month never exceeds 60-70% at best, and if you use another way of counting returns, no matter how much peds I cycle I always end up having to deposit another $100 per month to continue.

Not complaining, there is no such thing as a free lunch in this game, but just feel that we're talking about wrong numbers here when discussing a 90% return.

Do you keep any figures, or is the 60-70% an estimate?

 

[Mischief]

Stopped taking notes a while back when I was at point when I was forced to change my gameplay due to some rl issues. At that time my return was on an all time low with 45%.
So the 60-70 % is an estimate based on the return on a hunt to hunt basis.
400 ped hunts usually result in TT loot values between 200 and 500 ped. After repairs approx 80 ped return is really annoying on the 200 ped return hunts.
Might be that MA thinks I had my share of high loots (had 6 ubers with a total of approx 30k peds over 4 years, so really not that much) compared to my level of deposits or that I'm on long and steep downward slope still. I do get the feeling that I'm on the low end when comparing return with friends.
All of the $100 per month depo'ed goes to activities, if I buy some thing new I usually have to put in some extra.

But I have noticed that Iron missions tends to result in lower return a few k mobs into the 10k stage, perhaps that's my problem...

 

[kosmos]

Not saying you are wrong in that assumption, Mega, but I don't think it's all that easy.
1-3 months is a way to short period of time to get your average 90%, if I read the posts here right.
I play 6 days/week, 2-5 hours at the time. Small depositor, approx $100 per month and of of course play accordingly, ie Proteron and such is out, since there's no way you can expect to profit on those with those amount of peds. At least, I can't. Tried it on few occasions so not guessing.
Problem is that overall loot over a month never exceeds 60-70% at best, and if you use another way of counting returns, no matter how much peds I cycle I always end up having to deposit another $100 per month to continue.

Not complaining, there is no such thing as a free lunch in this game, but just feel that we're talking about wrong numbers here when discussing a 90% return.

Hi I know I don't hunt (and I hope you got an open mind last time i said something in a hunting thread I got a needless neg rep but anyways), But hunting mobs like proterons are hard to cycle through. I think the game don't just look at your cost of kills or how much peds you cycle but how many kills your doing. I don't know the exact cost of 100 kills but I know its 2.5 to 3k peds maybe. If you were to cycle those peds on something that had a cheaper cost to kill and could kill more mobs for ped spent you might see the fabled 85%-90% tt sooner than later.

I understood you said you don't do those but just saying what could cause a smoother return but its all opinion anyways good luck