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could you explain the "net value" to me then? im just looking at alertness atm, and i don't understand why in the first pic its 12.05 ped and in the sedond its 10.96 ped :confused:

i also thought that because i bumped up the ESI value to 750% then the second pic should reflect that in the "Market Value" column, but it doesn't because those values are identical.
 
andyzammy said:
could you explain the "net value" to me then? im just looking at alertness atm, and i don't understand why in the first pic its 12.05 ped and in the sedond its 10.96 ped :confused:

i also thought that because i bumped up the ESI value to 750% then the second pic should reflect that in the "Market Value" column, but it doesn't because those values are identical.
Click to expand...

Market Value is the market value of the filled chip. Net value is the market value of the chip minus the cost of the esi (cost of esi is; esi tt * esi market). Have I used the names improperly?
 
Doer said:
Market Value is the market value of the filled chip. Net value is the market value of the chip minus the cost of the esi (cost of esi is; esi tt * esi market). Have I used the names improperly?
Click to expand...

yes, thats exactly what i thought. in that case, why is the net value on the second pic lower then the net value on the first when i manually updated the market values to be exactgly the same (2200%)?

Edit: also, because the base ESI values are different on each pic, that means that the "Market Values" should be different too but they're exactly the same still.
 
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andyzammy said:
yes, thats exactly what i thought. in that case, why is the net value on the second pic lower then the net value on the first when i manually updated the market values to be exactgly the same (2200%)?
Click to expand...

Because the ESI markup for the first pic is set to 628% and to 750% for the second. This is reflected in the ESI cost, which then changes the net value even though the market value is the same.

Edit: also, because the base ESI values are different on each pic, that means that the "Market Values" should be different too but they're exactly the same still.
Click to expand...

The tt value of chip needed is the same, the ESI markup is different. The market value has nothing to do with the cost of the ESI. It's the market value of the filled chip. Market values of skill chips are not directly a function of ESI prices. In this case, I get the markup from PEAuction and use it to calculate the market value.

Market value is how much you could sell the filled chip for. Net value is how much you make after subtracting the cost of the ESI.
 
ok im beginning to understand. i do think however that you have made it the wrong way around though.

the whole point in having access to the net value of your skills is that you can see how much they're worth w/o having ESI's influence that value at all. so the way that EU|PE Tools works, defeats that object.

yes, net value is market value minus ESI value, but the way you've got it there, its working the wrong way around. you're "stealing" pure skill value when you take away the ESI markup.

it makes no sense that Net value of a skill should change just because the ESI value has changed.. when the ESI hasn't even come into the equasion yet.

the net value (ie value of the skills not in a chip, only in your head) shouldn't change if the markup of the skill doesn't change.

it should be: Net Value + ESI Value = Total Markup

now, i know you have sort of done this, but what you have done, is cancel out the rise in ESI value by lowering the Net Value. this shouldn't happen. the Total Markup should in fact rise by the difference in ESI value rising instead of the Net value falling.

the reason for this is if i buy an ESI overpriced, i want to add that overprice onto the skill im selling and get my money back. this tool doesn't allow for that. i'm not saying thats what i've done lol, its just the only example i could think of that fits what i'm trying to explain

well, this is at least what i was looking for as a feature in your tool. this is imo what should happen once you start making custom adjustments.
 
andyzammy said:
well, this is at least what i was looking for as a feature in your tool. this is imo what should happen once you start making custom adjustments.
Click to expand...


Net profits in all my experience are the result of subtracting expenses from income. That is, total chip market value minus the cost of the ESI (and technically the implanter decay, which i did not include of course).

The tools purpose is basically to estimate your skill worth at present market values. If you buy an ESI above market values, you can set the ESI markup to reflect your cost: the tool will tell you what your profits will be. Just because someone pays some % x more for an ESI than market doesn't mean that the market price for the chip made from it is also x% higher: just that their net profit in selling it will be lower.

In other words, you don't set market price; It's a function of the sales history.

What you are proposing is instead of an independent market price for skill chips and ESIs, having a markup over ESI price on skill chips. I can see that might be useful for a calculator function but makes no sense for a market valuation tool. To do it in this tool, you can achieve the same affect by adding that x% to the market price by hand in each column.

I could make a checkbox ooption that would automatically increase/decrease markup values from the PEauction defaults by the same amount that the ESI markup is set above or below PEauction. I want to fix the estimation function from 7-8k using the new data first, though. It will be awhile.
 
oki i understand your way of thinking. but i have always saw the way chipping works as the chipper upper has to pay the fee and not the chipper outter. i've seen that trend ever since the old ESI system. people would take the 80ped esi value away from the actual skill cost wouldn't they.

the cost thing you're on about when you say proffit = income - expenses is a little bogus imo when you're considering skills. it shouldn't really cost you a thing to chip out. but anyway, i understand where you're comming from.

Doer said:
I could make a checkbox ooption that would automatically increase/decrease markup values from the PEauction defaults by the same amount that the ESI markup is set above or below PEauction. I want to fix the estimation function from 7-8k using the new data first, though. It will be awhile.
Click to expand...

i'll be looking forward to this function. untill then, i'll use that workaround.

gl, PE|EU Tool is still an awesome tool :)
 
I dont realy see how it should work the other way around. How can you know the net skill value when you dont look at the ESI price? When ESI price goes up, skill value goes down, and vica versa.
 
Fortunately i noticed this random comment, since few ubers can be bothered to report such useful information where it will be used.

Pham: Level 10128 with a 6234 PED chip = Level 16062
WikiTools: = Level 15843 --> 1.4% absolute error or 3.7% relative error :yay:

Sweet, that's closer than i expected. I'll refine the prediction curve next time i get more data to see if i can find a fit that gives a result closer to this.
 
It's ba-aaaack. You have to put in your exact avatar name, now: No shortcuts. :p

On the other hand, it should load the skills much faster.

WikiTools
 
Pham's data for the upper levels has finally permitted a very complete mapping from level to ESI tt. I combined it with the data from this thread and updated the function for the WikiTools skill calculator.

tool-fit.gif

The function will now accept levels up to 20k (the data covers up to 16k, beyond that is just extrapolation) and should be accurate to within 1% from 6k+ to 16k and within 3% or so below that.

Thanks for the great data, Pham.
 
Witte realized that the host for entropedia actually does support python, so WikiTools has now joined the wiki. :)

wikitools.entropiawiki.com

No more nasty ad bars and less downtime (crossing fingers ;) ). Thanks Witte.

Edit: there are still some links pointing to the old host. No biggie, but i am aware of them and will get to it asap.
 
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A new (alpha) toy

Xen requested the ability to calculate how many times you'd have to repeat a hunt to reach a certain professional level, so i have made a rough hack on my current home code and put it on a rougher CGI frontend for people to play with. It is easy to break but, i hope, accurate. Let me know about your experience, please.

It ignores unlocks and attribute gains -- the latter aren't easy to predict and contribute little, anyway. The former could be added, as we know they are gained in the proportion that they contribute, but it's a piece i haven't added yet.

http://esi.coolinc.info/progress.cgi

How To Use It
Paste in the jdegre-CSV (from jdegre's skill scanner) file by opening it with notepad and copying it (ie don't paste from excel because it will have tabs, not commas). Paste in a skill snapshot from before a hunt (or mining run, or crafting run) and after, select the desired profession, the target professional standing level, and click the button.

It should calculate roughly how many repetitions of the activities between the two snapshots would be needed to reach the designated level. You can multiply the ammo spent, bombs dropped, or clicks on the bp done by the number it comes up with to estimate how much more you have to do to reach the target level. I'll be adding more professions -- if you have a particular one you want let me know and i'll prioritize it.

Possible inaccuracies
The calculator doesn't work as well for short ranges because it's optimized for large steps (like from 50 to 55, etc.) There is some irregular error due to the poor behavior of the inverse of the level to skill volume function i use, which was intended to be an approximation when i wrote it. You can minimize the error by making sure your hunt or other skilling activity is long enough to give significant gains in all the relevant skills.

Results
What does it tell me? Well, that it will take 9x more skilling than i did from February to April to unlock Commando, and 25x that much for Kill Strike. Apparently i can unlock Commando in eighteen months :(, Kill Strike in four years :eek: and Quickness (level 55 Evader) in "only" 9 year! :eyecrazy: :jawdrop: :cry:
 
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This is awsome, great job! +rep

Can't wait for the mining professions to be added!

:yay:
 
wizzszz said:
This is awsome, great job! +rep

Can't wait for the mining professions to be added!

:yay:
Click to expand...

Thanks. I added a few more professions you might like. ;)

I set the timeout pretty low, so if you keep getting an error it's probably because it will take an excessive number of repetitions to reach the level you specified.

It now shows the level at each of the snapshots after you submit the data. That should be useful, especially for checking for any typos on my part when i entered the professions, or parsing errors for the skills.

http://esi.coolinc.info/progress.cgi

Give it a try and let me know how you like it.

progress.gif

9 years to Quickness :(

I've tried to catch timeout errors and such. If you get an error, please report what happened.
 
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Doer, I think the calcs for the Miner profession are broken. It timed out and that's not right. I checked the data in both entry fields. It worked for Prospector. I did not check others.
 
Doer said:
9 years to Quickness :(
Click to expand...

Yeah...doing my own quick calcs (in my head...still have to get some data for this and plug it in) I will reach 100 HA/DMG before i hit quickness.

Scary :(

Lets not mention medical therapy, eh? (4 years on approx :eek:)

Edit: :rofl: some newbie walks in, sees that it takes 10years to get to a decent level and faints. :laugh: the fact we are actually making long terms plans for quickness :laugh:

Now let's not look at intuition :-\
 
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Thank you for taking the time to post this, I have been looking for this for some time seems PE tools didnt work for me but this works fine

:wtg:Keep on Keeping on
 
Xen said:
Doer, I think the calcs for the Miner profession are broken. It timed out and that's not right. I checked the data in both entry fields. It worked for Prospector. I did not check others.
Click to expand...

Hmm, i just tried pasting in two of my skill snapshots a few days apart and it worked. The first snapshot had a level of 6.9 and the second of 7.0 (noob :lolup:). I put level 20 as the goal and it came back with 4251.9 repetitions, which obviously i can't verify, but it's plausible. :eyecrazy:

As long as you actually increased your Miner standing between the two snapshots and put a low enough target, it should be working. If you can't get it to work still, send me the two skill sets and i'll see if i can figure it out.

Thanks for reporting!
 
oooh :S i input some data from a couple month ago - should reach Quickness in five years (probably less, as still have combat sense to unlock).

3 years till wounding. Woot! ???!1/1:confused::confused::confused:

my estimation to 100 HA/DMG pretty close ... 6years itrells me...and will be less due to unlocks

Commando in 18months :O and i haven't been concentrating it one prof either

yes..medical therapy in 6years.....

and lets forget intuition rofl (but we knew this...)

so... what people complaining about nerf lol... some pregolders only just got 100HA/DMG...and this tells me it will take the me the same time as it took them >_>

Back to skilling....
 
I added health to the options, but it is still very slightly inaccurate due to the ongoing effort to fully understand how health is calculated. If you have scanned your complete skills, please consider checking them and uploading them to Entropedia and posting in the thread to give notice that they are correct:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/skills/110626-impact-health-chipping-skills.html

If you find that your health calculation is rather off with this tool, please let me know.
 
Doer said:
I added health to the options, but it is still very slightly inaccurate due to the ongoing effort to fully understand how health is calculated. If you have scanned your complete skills, please consider checking them and uploading them to Entropedia and posting in the thread to give notice that they are correct:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/skills/110626-impact-health-chipping-skills.html

If you find that your health calculation is rather off with this tool, please let me know.
Click to expand...

i read that thread, and read that u took the values. i think it would be helpful to yourself if you add a checkbox "These skills are a complete snapshot" or something of the sort, because sometimes i only update the ones i need to know tt value etc of. these would skew ur results quite a bit i'd imagine.
 
Doer said:
I added health to the options, but it is still very slightly inaccurate due to the ongoing effort to fully understand how health is calculated. If you have scanned your complete skills, please consider checking them and uploading them to Entropedia and posting in the thread to give notice that they are correct:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/skills/110626-impact-health-chipping-skills.html

If you find that your health calculation is rather off with this tool, please let me know.
Click to expand...

Health has been 100% deconvoluted. :yay: I haven't updated the progress calculator as the changes are minute, but i will next time i update it. I'll also fix a slight error in the contribution of Courage (0.3%).
 
If you could add psychotropy (hit & damage) and teleporter, I'd give this a try.
 
The lengths i go to for you people. ;)
 
Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

Apparently, it will take me 18.6 years for tough. (assuming i were to neither get CS or the myth commando) however if i rationalize and assume i will get 9k skill of each by the time i get to tough, then it should take only 5.5years.

The same rationalisation (used 6k of relevant unlocks not ..erm...unlocked)
Quickness 4 years
Intuition 16 :holyshit:
Maxed Ur175 (lvl45) <2years
Medical Therapy 3yrs Doesn't seem that far off :)
Commando a very kind 15 months. And I haven't been focusing completely in one profession either
Killstrike: 3yrs, but lvl 70 comes in 18 months. Once again not concentrated in profession i hunted laser/blp near equal in the last few weeks.
Lvl 100 hit/dmg, 5.26 yrs/4.97yrs
 
??????

080522jk said:
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Click to expand...

I know, i know: resistance is futile.

Moderator!
 
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