Project LP-120: A Low Efficiency Hunting Log

[anonimity]

It’s

Maybe shoot smaller mobs or no armor and just rest chip?

hard to shoot a small mob with 118 base dps gun. But I’m trying to continue to push towards long term goals. I will tweak armor more but it’s eye opening to see how little contribution overall things like tier components have in overall markup. Really the big winners are the rare loots worth multiple hundreds or thousands of ped.

 

[anonimity]

Day 6:

I'm a few days late as I just have not had time to plug my hunting returns into my spreadsheet and update the results. I spent the majority of my time this day on Next Island hitting Centaurs and the Gorgon wave. I was lucky enough to get a decent hof of around 600 ped and loot an adjusted scale and improved scale so my overall MU was better today than any other day. Also, enslaved daudomaurs drop a decent amount of heart and brain oil which seems to be going nuts in MU right now. I ran enhancers to improved DPS and I think that helped keep my repair bill lower as Centaurs are fairly decay intensive.

My TT return was pretty shit overall at 88.2%, but I also lost about 350 ped from killing a purger before I left Caly (thanks Solo) so those big shared loot mobs seem to be killing my TT return more so than my normal hunting returns.

Day 6
TT Spent	11,034.11
TT Return	9,727.61
MU Return	791.89
Armor Decay	133.07
FAP Decay	9.70
Enhancer Break	125.40
TT Gain/Loss	(1,306.50)
TT Return %	88.2%
Armor % of Output	1.4%
FAP % of Output	0.1%
Enhancer % of Output	1.3%
MU Gain/Loss	(782.78)
Total Return %	92.9%
Total Shots	26,249.00
Total Kills	1,591.00
DPP	3.95
Avg Loot	6.68
Avg Cost	6.68

 

[anonimity]

Day 7:

Day 7 was Sunday and it was going pretty terribly sticking to Centaurs and Gorgon waves. I did not manage to loot any rare components nor did I have any good hofs until the very end when I landed a 790 Enslaved Daudomaur which "saved" my overall run from being too bad. I will keep at it until I run out of ammo on NI and have to head to Caly to re-stock and sell stuff on auction. Again, ran a lot of dmg enhancers which helped cut the armor repair bill but the MU on enhancer breakage does add up too.

Day 7
TT Spent	8,454.58
TT Return	8,149.34
MU Return	118.02
Armor Decay	101.36
FAP Decay	12.80
Enhancer Break	114.40
TT Gain/Loss	(305.24)
TT Return %	96.4%
Armor % of Output	1.2%
FAP % of Output	0.2%
Enhancer % of Output	1.4%
MU Gain/Loss	(415.78)
Total Return %	95.1%
Total Shots	18,821.00
Total Kills	913.00
DPP	3.94
Avg Loot	8.93
Avg Cost	9.26

 

[anonimity]

Day 8:

Finally managed to nab an augmented sinew today after cycling about 15k on Centaurs the last few days. I was also trying right after that for several hours to hit a perfected sinew and killed Chillwing several times (zero globals strangely enough on the boss) and then saw that someone else nabbed it right after I had to take a break so... bummer, could have been a very nice MU day with that one and put me in the green overall with MU.
TT returns today were meh at 87.8%, but the sinew and several pieces of brain oil, outputs, and heart oil helped offset the TT returns netting a return after decay and MU of 110%.

Day 8
TT Spent	8,132.84
TT Return	7,143.42
MU Return	1,987.66
Armor Decay	107.82
FAP Decay	8.90
Enhancer Break	41.80
TT Gain/Loss	(989.42)
TT Return %	87.8%
Armor % of Output	1.5%
FAP % of Output	0.1%
Enhancer % of Output	0.6%
MU Gain/Loss	839.72
Total Return %	110.3%
Total Shots	21,167.00
Total Kills	1,450.00
DPP	3.94
Avg Loot	4.93
Avg Cost	5.61

 

[anonimity]

Day 9:

TT Return: +106
MU Return: +1,160

Short day for me, but sweet. Logged in, started the Gorgon Shade wave and on the 2nd kill looted a Modified Scale (around 1K MU). Had a few other non-notable globals and some tier 5-8 comps. Overall, tired and going to bed and going to call it while I'm in the green for the day. Thankful to have 2 days in a row with Rare Item loots worth over 1K.

TT Spent	3,268.74
TT Return	3,375.03
MU Return	1,099.45
Armor Decay	23.90
FAP Decay	2.10
Enhancer Break	19.80
TT Gain/Loss	106.29
TT Return %	103.3%
Armor % of Output	0.7%
FAP % of Output	0.1%
Enhancer % of Output	0.6%
MU Gain/Loss	1,159.94
Total Return %	135.5%
Total Shots	9,319.00
Total Kills	421.00
DPP	4.02
Avg Loot	8.02
Avg Cost	7.76

 

[anonimity]

Day 10:

TT Return: -225
MU Return: +955

Another day in the plus on MU, but with trash TT return. This is the 3rd day in a row I was able to loot a really nice MU rare, a Modified Daudomaur Fang from the Gorgon Shade. Again, just like yesterday, logged in started the wave and hit the fang within 3 kills. Pushed a little further hoping for another rare drop but no luck so I decided to call it and head back to caly to sell loot. I ended up cycling around 25k on NI this trip and had some really nice MU loots. The rest of my run on Caly was just cleaning up a few easy dailies (Letomie, Defenders) and sitting at Typhon's Reach with no enhancers.

Note: The last two days are very short because I just don't have time to play much mid-week. I will try to get some longer runs mapped during this "Mini Mayhem Event" and Cyrene event.

TT Spent	3,428.89
TT Return	3,203.43
MU Return	1,268.46
Armor Decay	56.37
FAP Decay	7.20
Enhancer Break	24.20
TT Gain/Loss	(225.46)
TT Return %	93.4%
Armor % of Output	1.8%
FAP % of Output	0.2%
Enhancer % of Output	0.8%
MU Gain/Loss	955.23
Total Return %	127.9%
Total Shots	9,974.00
Total Kills	947.00
DPP	3.93
Avg Loot	3.38
Avg Cost	3.62

 

[anonimity]

Day 11:

Hunted Letomie and only Letomie. Had great TT returns. plus around 800 M-tokens which I need. So I had 2 HOFs including a 1.7k and 770 ped hof. Mostly boring hunting today. Great returns, not much to say, made 2 lvls of progress on Letomie Codex from 11-13 completed. More to come tomorrow.

TT Return: +2,543
MU Return: +2,533

Day 11
TT Spent	12,972.33
TT Return	15,515.33
MU Return	372.12
Armor Decay	212.32
FAP Decay	12.71
Enhancer Break	156.20
TT Gain/Loss	2,543.00
TT Return %	119.6%
Armor % of Output	1.4%
FAP % of Output	0.1%
Enhancer % of Output	1.0%
MU Gain/Loss	2,533.89
Total Return %	119.5%
Total Shots	27,880.00
Total Kills	1,640.00
DPP	4.26
Avg Loot	9.46
Avg Cost	7.91

 

[anonimity]

Day 12:

Started on Letomie - which was a fairly good TT return. and for some dumb reason, I left and went to NI and hunted gorgon / drakes and I looted nothing. and was zero markup.

Day 12
TT Spent	11,538.86
TT Return	11,194.68
MU Return	259.69
Armor Decay	112.68
FAP Decay	12.71
Enhancer Break	68.20
TT Gain/Loss	(344.18)
TT Return %	97.0%
Armor % of Output	1.0%
FAP % of Output	0.1%
Enhancer % of Output	0.6%
MU Gain/Loss	(278.08)
Total Return %	97.6%
Total Shots	27,880.00
Total Kills	1,640.00
DPP	4.26
Avg Loot	6.83
Avg Cost	7.04

 

[Msturlese]

as per 2017 MA statements, Eff is another way to calculate economicity of a weapon, it seems a derivative of DPP on some extent on that (as usual obscure and deceptive ) statement.
Anyway, another statement calls return on average 98% for all aplayers that shot at least 100.000 ped per month (suggesting that there is no personal pool but there is a "rebalancing" meachanism)
IMHO
"2.0" class weapons lead to better return due to "smaller kill cost" that is the DPP parameter for old school
there is empirical evidence (See EVEY logs) that returns never run over 99% in the long run (i made a model on 98.50 due to 1.5% is tt skill value alternative to Jhereg's tables)
and looking at Mahem proposed items that become smaller in eff and higher in DPP i think that interaction with looter skill and eff has a cap to reflect the 2 statements before
Summarizing.... as a gamer shots sa 350.000 ped per month has 88 looter... well you can aswell use the pistol with a H204 and have same returns. (according to the MA disclosures)
i cant use a lp120 yet but i totally consider it best pick at 55.000 Ped base price i saw in ah
thank you for showing us these numbers

 

[anonimity]

Day 13:

I hunted mostly Gorgon and sinew mobs. Looted an imp scale and imp sinew. nothing that special. so my MU return was much better than TT but TT was absolute dogshit. I did an entire gorgon wave solo from 1-6 plus the boss and I had only 1x 62 ped global. so bad. Burned a lot of enhancers and Armor decay, but overall. the imp scale and loot helped a little bit. I expect this is just a bad day and will try to return tomorrow for a better hunting day.

TT return: 82.4%
MU return: 86.3%

TT Spent	10,014.24
TT Return	8,256.33
MU Return	622.40
Armor Decay	102.51
FAP Decay	15.31
Enhancer Break	116.60
TT Gain/Loss	(1,757.91)
TT Return %	82.4%
Armor % of Output	1.2%
FAP % of Output	0.2%
Enhancer % of Output	1.4%
MU Gain/Loss	(1,369.93)
Total Return %	86.3%
Total Shots	22,293.00
Total Kills	893.00
DPP	4.08
Avg Loot	9.25
Avg Cost	11.21

 

[Vill]

Anyway, another statement calls return on average 98% for all aplayers that shot at least 100.000 ped per month (suggesting that there is no personal pool but there is a "rebalancing" meachanism)

You got a link where this is stated?

 

[Art Jennifer]

You got a link where this is stated?

The post does not say 100k per month, just 100k since the VU 15:15..

It is a couple posts lower than the main one:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...statments-pertaining-to-loot-post-2-0.263346/



Developer Notes #13 - Loot 2.0 Statistics

The MindArk design team has been closely monitoring the impact of Loot 2.0, recently implemented in Version Update 15.15. We have also been following the many interesting and valuable discussions on community forums and thought it would be helpful to those discussions to share some hunting return statistics.

Net return for all hunting activity since VU 15.15: 94.71%
Net return for hunters cycling at least 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%
Net return for hunters cycling at least 10,000 PED since VU 15.15: 94.79%
Net return for accounts created in 2017, cycling at least 100 PED since VU 15.15: 94.87%
Net return for accounts created in 2017: 93.47%
These return rates are very close to MindArk’s targets for Loot 2.0, and indicate that the changes implemented are working as intended. Of course, we will continue to monitor, tweak and improve moving forward.

Happy hunting!

 

[messi91]

Developer Notes #13 - Loot 2.0 Statistics

Most complicated statistics to be comprehended properly in all entropia.
At most 2 out 1000 players gets it.

 

[Orion]

The only statistics you can trust are those you falsified yourself...


But yea, it was even worse before Loot2.0 without an Imk2...

 

[The Great Adventurer]

Most complicated statistics to be comprehended properly in all entropia.
At most 2 out 1000 players gets it.

So... 10 players in the entire active playerbase?

 

[Gopher]

The post does not say 100k per month, just 100k since the VU 15:15..

It is a couple posts lower than the main one:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...statments-pertaining-to-loot-post-2-0.263346/



Developer Notes #13 - Loot 2.0 Statistics

The MindArk design team has been closely monitoring the impact of Loot 2.0, recently implemented in Version Update 15.15. We have also been following the many interesting and valuable discussions on community forums and thought it would be helpful to those discussions to share some hunting return statistics.

Net return for all hunting activity since VU 15.15: 94.71%
Net return for hunters cycling at least 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%
Net return for hunters cycling at least 10,000 PED since VU 15.15: 94.79%
Net return for accounts created in 2017, cycling at least 100 PED since VU 15.15: 94.87%
Net return for accounts created in 2017: 93.47%
These return rates are very close to MindArk’s targets for Loot 2.0, and indicate that the changes implemented are working as intended. Of course, we will continue to monitor, tweak and improve moving forward.

Happy hunting!

This post was before looter professions iirc, so its possible that this isn't accurate anymore.

 

[anonimity]

Interesting, and thanks for the added posts, especially around VU 15.15.

I don't read that as anyone cycling 100k gets a guaranteed 97.3%, and anyone cycling 10k gets 94.7%. That doesn't include the cycle rate, loot instances, efficiency, or anything. That means half of the players (roughly) are doing more than 97.3%, and half are doing less. The ones doing more could have a higher combination impact of efficiency + looter, and vice versa. However, I have a theory about how looter and efficiency impact your returns and combine with the "loot wave" algorithm or whatever you want to call it.

I think that every loot instance has an RNG multiplier that your looter and efficiency also amplify. so if

Input Costs = 1 PED
Output = (0.84) * Input Costs * (RNG between 0.5-10,000) * (Looter Level * .07) * (efficiency * .07) * (wave multiplier)

For Example:
If you get an average loot and a 1:1 multiplier, you would return 0.84 peds by default, plus your looter up to 7%, plus your efficiency up to 7%, plus special wave multiplier(s). I theorize that the entire Entropia universe is tied to sinusoidal waves that can have constructive/destructive interference. So, if you only hunt for a small cycle, you might feel like you're on a great return cycle if you catch the confluence of multiple special waves or vice versa if you get a <90% return.

Anyway. I could try to prove it with math formulas, but what is the point? The results are what they are!

 

[messi91]

plus your looter up to 7%

I ask everyone posting this and nobody ever answered.Can you post official comment from mindark saying looter is 7% anywhere?

 

[anonimity]

I ask everyone posting this and nobody ever answered.Can you post official comment from mindark saying looter is 7% anywhere?

No, I don't think it was ever officially stated. But, I believe the data "theory" comes off of Zho's log where he tracked it over a large sample size. however, it is a theoretical example. it doesn't have to be 7%. it could be 8% 10% or whatever. i still think each individual loot instance generates it's own return based on several variables and looter is one of them, but not the only one.

You probably have better data than Zho, but I doubt you would share it. At this point, it is still just a theory about how loot is calculated. I don't believe MA tracks individual returns (and I believe they've stated it as such). I simply believe that the reason why average returns tend to normalize around 97-98% is that given enough loot "instances," you will eventually hit a big RNG multiplier that will help to balance out long periods of nothing or low returns. Some people hit a big RNG early in their sample size of loot instances and some hit it late (or never before they go broke).

Just a theory, though.

 

[messi91]

You probably have better data than Zho

I don't but If I dont have official data I dont post and when I believe something works in a specific way I always state "I BELIEVE"
Its fine to have 1000 theories but just say each time "I BELIEVE" never post it as facts, people are way way way too misinformed by a million things already.

 

[anonimity]

I don't but If I dont have official data I dont post and when I believe something works in a specific way I always state "I BELIEVE"
Its fine to have 1000 theories but just say each time "I BELIEVE" never post it as facts, people are way way way too misinformed by a million things already.

I believe that stating “I have a theory” and “I think that” are the same qualitatively as “I believe”. I included both in my post preceding my theory so… what’s the difference? It is all a theory nothing is stated as fact here. Only mindark has the facts.

 

[Msturlese]

look at WORDING
MA said it is MAXIMUM 7%.....
some math blind player made it become "it is linear progressing in step of 0.07% per point until 100 and total return at that level is 100% TT"
this lead to many errors

reread it as "combined looter and eff impact is less or equal to 7%"
and count in that PP and MA take a cut of the loot

@Messi ...i am pretty sure that i am part of the 998.... statistically being 2 out of 1000 is like dating a superrmodel... all pretend, no one can show a pic

 

[The Great Adventurer]

some math blind player made it become "it is linear progressing in step of 0.07% per point until 100 and total return at that level is 100% TT"
this lead to many errors

Could simply be...

EFF 7% but no 100% EFF guns so always will be loss to system rake
Looter 7% but you start at Level 0 and theoretically max at Level 100 = always loss to rake as you skill
Thus at L100 + 97.2% max EFF always losing ~0.21% to system over millions of PED = 99.79% returns possible
Only x number of 97.2% EFF weapons available and add enhancer, attachment = always less than theoretical limit

Level 0 player with Grindhouse will see 86% returns to begin.

MA always get rake because impossible to have 100% EFF on weapon.
Multiply by active players cycle over 100,000 PED with 60-85% EFF = revenue generation for MA (with some set aside for jackpot mechanism and possible redistribution when your avatar falls behind the curve).

 

[anonimity]

Day 14:

TT Return: +1,872
MU Return: +1,114
Decay: -734
Total Return: +2,888

It's been almost a week since I've been able to play a decent amount and today I decided to go big and it paid off. I started doing some defenders for codex on Caly (I need to work on robot codexes anyway), but the loot was shit, so I decided to pull the trigger and warp to NI. I hit the Gorgon wave when nobody else was there and went straight to spawn a shade wave. My gamble paid off and I looted 2x Improved Scales back to back for a cool +800 in MU early in the run. Then, once the loot dried up on Gorgons, I tried a few sinew mobs and looted just an adjusted sinew, which is almost worthless at this point (+9 ped), but hey, MU is MU.
At that point my TT return was around -400 on around 4K cycled but the MU from scales and brain oil and other various tier comps zero'd out the loss with decay and MU added in. I switched it up a bit and decided that since nobody had been on Moloch Journeymen or Masters for a while, I would try to go clean up a few tier comps (Journeymen drop Tier 5-7 and Masters drop Tier 8). I also need Tier 8 for my gun, which has been malingered at 7.99 for a long time. Once I switched to Moloch Masters, I parked for several hours, and the globals just started pouring in and didn't stop. I hit several 300-400-500+ globals throughout the day (most didn't register on EL, but my loot tracker captured all), and I just watched my TT return climb to +2,400 at one point without even hitting a hof all day. With the added MU, my day ended up nearly +3K on around 20k cycle. This brings my overall TT return back to nearly 100%.
If nothing else, the LP-120 has outperformed expectations thus far and I can only hope it continues.

TT Spent	17,727.70
TT Return	19,599.57
MU Return	1,114.17
Armor Decay	579.00
FAP Decay	1.20
Enhancer Break	154.00
TT Gain/Loss	1,871.87
TT Return %	110.6%
Armor % of Output	3.0%
FAP % of Output	0.0%
Enhancer % of Output	0.8%
MU Gain/Loss	2,887.04
Total Return %	116.3%
Total Shots	41,662
Total Kills	2,518.00
DPP	4.01
Avg Loot	7.78
Avg Cost	7.04

 

[dimod]

I ask everyone posting this and nobody ever answered.Can you post official comment from mindark saying looter is 7% anywhere?

Fuck so its not 7% officially. I spent so much chasing level 100...

 

[dimod]

This log is mind boggling...Thank you for the share +rep

 

[messi91]

Fuck so its not 7% officially. I spent so much chasing level 100...

I might be or not, there is nothing official on it, its your part to believe it or not, I don't take any side but in the same time I don't say which one is valid.

 

[mihaimnb]

This log is mind boggling...Thank you for the share +rep

There was this poker player who kept a horseshoe on his wall anyway even if he did not believe in luck

 

[anonimity]

Day 15:

TT Return: -32
MU Return: +192
Decay: -870
Total Return: -25

I started this day on Gorgon Wave and Centaurs a little bit, but I did not have much luck regarding rares or any MU. So I switched back to Moloch Masters and stuck on them for a few hours, fully enhanced and ripping. I managed to cycle about 12K and broke even after decay and MU. TT return from ammo/weapon decay was +652, but I also had a significant decay bill (As usual) on Moloch masters as they chomp through my Mayhem + 5D set hard and quite expensively. Overall, though, it was a great day as I had a 1.1K HOF and a 600 ped global to help settle the wild TT fluctuations.

I suspect my TT return looks higher than normal because the armor decay bill on Moloch Masters is so high vs normal hunting. Supposedly, ~80-90% of it is returned in loot (not sure if there was ever an official statement about exactly how much is returned). Still, it seems not to be negatively impacting me overall. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to track TT returns with armor/enhancer decay included in any loot tracker, so I am stuck with what we have, and that is why I include the Armor % of Output (TT returned in loot) as a data point.

TT Spent	12,740.93
TT Return	12,708.65
MU Return	192.91
Armor Decay	576.53
FAP Decay	1.20
Enhancer Break	292.60
TT Gain/Loss	(32.28)
TT Return %	99.7%
Armor % of Output	4.5%
FAP % of Output	0.0%
Enhancer % of Output	2.3%
MU Gain/Loss	(27.47)
Total Return %	99.8%
Total Shots	26,840
Total Kills	576.00
DPP	4.18
Avg Loot	22.06
Avg Cost	22.12

 

[dimod]

I suspect my TT return looks higher than normal because the armor decay bill on Moloch Masters is so high vs normal hunting. Supposedly, ~80-90% of it is returned in loot (not sure if there was ever an official statement about exactly how much is returned). Still, it seems not to be negatively impacting me overall. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to track TT returns with armor/enhancer decay included in any loot tracker, so I am stuck with what we have, and that is why I include the Armor % of Output (TT returned in loot) as a data point.

Can someone simplify this for me ? What is he saying ?