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Dion Red Strike said:
I have been watching this conversation quite closely, wondering what people would be bringing the negative attitude to the front. It's actually been fairly polite, considering the nature of the articles.
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Actually, there is a little more to the story than the nature of the articles. For those readers who were not here, or may have forgotten how this started, let me throw in just a bit of history here.

First of all, there was the MA thread searching for subjects which received so much "input" that it was closed in just over 4 hours.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/mindark-news/108903-college-student-subsidizing-income-entropia.html

Of course, this was followed 2 days later by Neverdie's thread which, by astounding coincidence, had virtually the exact same request.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/entropia-universe-press/109239-story-about-high-school-college-students-entropia-universe.html

...and it contained the memorable post-

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/entropia-universe-press/109239-story-about-high-school-college-students-entropia-universe-4.html#post1301289


Dion Red Strike said:
I personally think it's a great thing for Mindark to get more notice. Since so many people like to compare EU to a casino, I will make a poker example. In Texas holdem, there's only 1 winner, everyone else loses. But, still, ESPN shows all the poker tourneys, and everyone wants to play poker to win the big bucks. When they say 'Jim Bob earned 5 million dollars playing poker this year', no ones says 'yeah, and everyone else lost 5 mil'.

So, for those that wish to talk shit about Mindarks press releases, coverage that Mindark gets in the press, or anything else that makes Mindark look like the best thing since sliced bread, I say please, don't bring your negativity to a public forum. Go complain on the poker forums about all the press poker gets, you may have more sympathisers there.
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Several things here-

1) This was not just some bad idea of a way to get publicity. This is something that was previously brought up here, received a very, very bad reaction, and now, it's right back in our faces.

2) I'm not sure why everyone always turns this into a "they're whining because they lost money" argument. Truth be told, I have spent quite a bit of money on Entropia, I haven't lost it. One of these days, I'll chip out, sell off, and find out whether I'm up or down. No idea. Like to think it'll be close one way or the other. The only way that I am going to lose any serious money is if MA screws things up and my items and skills become worthless.

3) Your understanding of poker tournaments is a bit lacking, but that is neither here nor there. What is important is that when even the cheerleaders are using gambling analogies, we have a serious problem.

4) Now, here's the important one- Online gambling is illegal in the US. Amazingly, our wonderful government started cracking down hard on this about the time that there were a bunch of TV reports on teens and college kids losing tons of money playing online poker. That is also the same time that SL was forced to remove all gambling sims from their platform.

5) "don't bring your negativity to a public forum" Seriously? You actually meant to say this? Isn't the point of having a public forum to openly discuss all sides of an issue?

And in conclusion, my fellow degenerates, whiners, naysayers and prophets of doom, allow me to leave you with those immortal words of David Simmonds as reported by 711-

"So you can go in, kill some monsters, make some money, then go down and get yourself a pizza."
 
Rumsponge said:
Several things here-

1) This was not just some bad idea of a way to get publicity. This is something that was previously brought up here, received a very, very bad reaction, and now, it's right back in our faces.
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It probably won't get a bad reaction as your thinking.. Cause reds analogy of it was perfect..
There people who have lost there homes there job's over poker but you never hear of them.
not only poker again red's analogy
does the news report
1 person wins 50 million on the lottery.
or 1 person wins 50 million amd 100 million others lost 100 millioin on it..

on mmorpg news awhile agp. there were some people who have lost their job's and their homes over games like everquest or wow and you heard about the occasionally in the new's but that was it..
same with entropia there might be one or 2 articles that may be BAD pr for entropia but it probably won't affect it..

Rumsponge said:
2) I'm not sure why everyone always turns this into a "they're whining because they lost money" argument. Truth be told, I have spent quite a bit of money on Entropia, I haven't lost it. One of these days, I'll chip out, sell off, and find out whether I'm up or down. No idea. Like to think it'll be close one way or the other. The only way that I am going to lose any serious money is if MA screws things up and my items and skills become worthless.
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Exactly why say everyone is losing when probably 50% are profiting? They just don't know it cause its in their character value and when they sell out they will see they haven't lost as much as they thought..

Rumsponge said:
3) Your understanding of poker tournaments is a bit lacking, but that is neither here nor there. What is important is that when even the cheerleaders are using gambling analogies, we have a serious problem.
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??? lacking I might not see what your trying to get here but I think red's describes it perfect... I play alot of poker and watch it rarely but there usually is only 1 winner.

Rumsponge said:
4) Now, here's the important one- Online gambling is illegal in the US. Amazingly, our wonderful government started cracking down hard on this about the time that there were a bunch of TV reports on teens and college kids losing tons of money playing online poker. That is also the same time that SL was forced to remove all gambling sims from their platform.
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That is gambling and as much as you think entropia isn't gambling..
It's up to you to make money or lose it..
sure you lost on that last hunt... well make up for it.. go that extra mile sell the oils for 101%.. resell or do a service for your fellow entropian for a fee.. little bit of peds can make up a big hunting loss. But then when you get a profitable hunt don't let it sit there invest it on something you know you can make money on to pay for the loss of future hunts?
Rumsponge said:
5) "don't bring your negativity to a public forum" Seriously? You actually meant to say this? Isn't the point of having a public forum to openly discuss all sides of an issue?
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I am like red sick of negativity but you do have a point here.. negative or not it should be openly discussed... Just not too negative :D



Rumsponge said:
"So you can go in, kill some monsters, make some money, then go down and get yourself a pizza."
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Believe it or not... I actually did this one time when the atm card's worked... But it wasn't pizza ;) I had a nice hunt so I took my family out to outback steak house.. :D best steak I had knowing I payed for it myself hunting Areanatrox's :)

All in all don't look so much to the glass is half empty side.. try to be a bit more positive..

Mindark is here to give you either A) A chance to make money or B) Enjoyment and Fun..
or
C) Both...

B costs money (Most entertainment costs money just like paying for a tv service.. its up to you to see how much you want to lose... do you wanna play it safe? and only lose a little bit for your fun or are you one of those people who want the entire package! HBO, Stars, Encore and lose 8k peds in a couple weeks??

A costs time.. (most of which people don't wanna invest... but if you do invest it you can profit. It just makes it less fun.. You have to balance the two.)

C) Takes time and money.. It's the key to balancing your Fun factor with your profiting factor.
 
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Look, the thing is that you are sliding a little off the topic here.

The point is not whether or not some people make a profit in EU, of course they do, depending on your definition of the word "profit". If you take into consideration the vast herds of sweat gatherers who are making $0.50/hr, then sure, lots of people are profiting. The reason so many people are objecting in these threads is the way in which MA markets this as a way for people to make actual RL cash.

The whole problem is that MindArk really likes to push the whole "sign up, come in, make a bunch of PEDs" aspect and that is not realistic for a new player. Not to take away from your accomplishment, but you started a very long time ago. I'm sure that you'd admit that things are much, much tougher for new players now.

If you watch either of the TV videos, the only thing they show is you shooting Hogglos and the MA guy talking about hunting, mining, and crafting. I'm not really seeing how anyone could even pretend to say that a new player can come into the game and do any of that and make real life money. And that was the whole point of these stories.

Now, I will agree that it is possible to turn a small profit trading (or at least it was when I was doing it 2yrs ago). The two problems that I see with that are a) we are talking about a very small amount of money in RL terms, and b) it is completely dependent on the number of people doing it. When I was doing it, there were maybe a dozen of us, probably less.

As far as this game being gambling, I am not saying it is and I'm not saying it isn't. But when you enter an online game in which real money is used to buy tokens (bullets) and you then click a button (shoot) and wait to see if you hit the jackpot (global/HoF/ATH), all the while watching the ticker (chat window) scrolling messages about which other players have just hit a jackpot (global/HoF/ATH), you will have to agree that the perception is there. And the perception is all that matters when you are dealing with the media/government.

Over the years, many of us have said that they really need to get rid of the global/HoF/ATH's all together. Or, at a very minimum, they need to remove the scrolling messages.

But, I really want to get back to the main point here, and that is that many of us have a big problem with the way in which MA is marketing this game. If they were out there saying "even though this is the most expensive MMORPG that ever existed, it is really cool and really worth the money"; or if they got off of their asses and added even a small opportunity for player-generated content beyond makeup masks and picture frames, then I think a lot of us would be a little more pumped up about it. But marketing it in it's current form as a way for kids to make money is just an unfortunate choice.


oh, yeah. The poker thing. If you are in a "table tournament" or "sit and go", as some people call them, there are typically ten players and the top three get paid. If you are in a decent sized multi-table tournament, at the very least, everyone at the final table gets paid. If you are in a tournament on television, much, if not all of the purse is subsidized and they still pay down a few places. Although I really hate big multi-table tournaments, I've even been in some online ones where 50 or 100 people got paid. but that is way off-topic.:cool:
 
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Funny how they mention EU has 700.000 participants. But a fact is only about 5000 are logged in at peak hours. I know a virtual world who has 10x as much people logged in at slow hours ;)
 
A fair bit off topic, but along the lines of a lot of the posts here...
How many new players come in, get a mentor, ask which of the activities (hunting, ming, crafting) will earn them money the quickest way possible, then never log on again when they find out sweating is the only way they can make a 'fast' profit??
Too many accounts have been made and really never used, all going toward the total number of EU accounts!!
Would be interesting to find out how many 'active' accounts there really is out there....
 
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I personally think it's a great thing for Mindark to get more notice. Since so many people like to compare EU to a casino, I will make a poker example. In Texas holdem, there's only 1 winner, everyone else loses. But, still, ESPN shows all the poker tourneys, and everyone wants to play poker to win the big bucks. When they say 'Jim Bob earned 5 million dollars playing poker this year', no ones says 'yeah, and everyone else lost 5 mil'.

So, for those that wish to talk shit about Mindarks press releases, coverage that Mindark gets in the press, or anything else that makes Mindark look like the best thing since sliced bread, I say please, don't bring your negativity to a public forum. Go complain on the poker forums about all the press poker gets, you may have more sympathisers there.



Only one HUGE difference there my friend..Poker is a level playing field.. each person starts with the same.. the odds are the same for every one. the starting funds are the same for every one and there are people there that enforce rules..

EU has NONE of that so comparing EU to poker is a really bad analagy. The only aspect of EU that is casino like is the takeing of the customers money. At least a Casino is limited on how much they can take and there are very few ways to play favorites in a casino.

As far as EU attracting 15M people..never gonna happen.. they have many huge pipe dreams.. the hardware they supossedly upgraded to can barely handle the minimal people playing EU now in comparison to 15M added to that.

Its gonna be many years before MA is structured to contend with having the 700k people in EU that they state are currently registered.

So for now they need to focus on a more stable economy unless they are intentionally pushing players away. They WILL find the limit that people are willing to endure financially.. that is already far to high for most of the population to handle so any growth in EU will only come with a more even playing field. not a giant pyramid as it is now.

Big loots are only attractive if they are obtainable.. most will try a few times and move on or go back to scratch off lotto tickets that are less of a money sink for better chance of return.
 
nice :) I hope this means more ppl will play EU:)


thx for sharing mate +rep
 
Wow.... still lots of discussion. that's cool, journalist will write whatever they want to write...


darri
;)
 
Ogulak'Da'Dragon said:
Exactly why say everyone is losing when probably 50% are profiting? They just don't know it cause its in their character value and when they sell out they will see they haven't lost as much as they thought..
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I completely agree with you that there is a very substantial value stored in our avatars in the form of skills and items. However, I think you are being extremely optimistic in your estimation of 50% being profitable. Again, you need to remember that those of you who got into Entropia early had a very substantial advantage in skilling over anyone that starts today. Also, I have a very difficult time believing that the items we see dropping today will ever reach the insane markup values of alot of the items that were dropping in the early days.

Even though we agree that the cashout value of our avatars may be substantial, that is not the spin that is being applied in these news stories. Nor does it fit in with the whole "shoot a mob, buy a pizza" thing. The implication in these stories is that a person can use Entropia as a regular source of income, which translates to pulling a steady stream of money out of this game on a weekly basis. And that is what people are objecting to.
 
Rumsponge said:
... a great big stinking pile of whining shite ...
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You sure are putting a lot of effort into discrediting MA and EU.

Why is that? Whats the agenda?

Btw, I re-started my avatar in June 2007 after previously chipping out.

I had 10.5k PED, a CND apt. deed and zero skills, I've made one further deposit of 5K ped ... current avatar worth 25-30K ped.

So dont give me this garbage that you cant profit if you're a new avatar.

You're either
a) A failure who cant stand the fact that others have found a way to suceed.
b) Have some interest in seeing MA fail (perhaps you work or are heavily involved with a competitor)
c) A fucking moron

My money's on all 3 ... cheerio. :tiphat:
 
Ironheart said:
You sure are putting a lot of effort into discrediting MA and EU.

Why is that? Whats the agenda?
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My agenda is to push MA into producing a better EU and also to protect my investment in the game.


Ironheart said:
Btw, I re-started my avatar in June 2007 after previously chipping out.

I had 10.5k PED, a CND apt. deed and zero skills, I've made one further deposit of 5K ped ... current avatar worth 25-30K ped.

So dont give me this garbage that you cant profit if you're a new avatar.
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So, you started playing the game again a year ago with all or your attributes intact, years of Entropia experience, 16-17k peds in value; and in more than a year since, you have managed to increase the "on-paper" value of your avatar by a whopping total of slightly over $1k US dollars? Ok, grats. Wouldn't want you to think I was bitter over your success. Maybe next time, MA will put you in a TV commercial.

Would you say that your results are typical, then? Is this what most new players should expect? Over the past year, have you been pulling money out on a regular basis? Is this what you would define as a good annual pay rate? Financing for college?

I have never said that it is impossible to make money from EU. Many people have. All that I've said is that it is not a good thing for the company when people imply that there are enough opportunities in EU that people can use this instead of getting a real job.
 
Ogulak'Da'Dragon said:
Exactly why say everyone is losing when probably 50% are profiting? They just don't know it cause its in their character value and when they sell out they will see they haven't lost as much as they thought..
.
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Yeah...that whole "avatar value" is kind of a crock, isn't it? That's like telling a man dying of thirst that his body is 60% water and he should go "suck on that!"

The thing about avatar/skills value is that it only becomes an asset once it is sold, and usually this means you are leaving the game or ripping your character down to zip...which isn't very fun. If you are going to be that technical about it, you should include the cost of the electricity used to play, the hours lost playing vs a part-time job where you could make X an hour, and a host of other ways of looking at the "costs" of playing and see if it is still profitable then.

There is no line of equity on character skills, sadly...:(


Rumsponge said:
I have never said that it is impossible to make money from EU. Many people have. All that I've said is that it is not a good thing for the company when people imply that there are enough opportunities in EU that people can use this instead of getting a real job.
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Yep! And I really want the ATM cards to come back so I can pay my rent with it. MA said I could ;)
 
Frigid said:
Yeah...that whole "avatar value" is kind of a crock, isn't it? That's like telling a man dying of thirst that his body is 60% water and he should go "suck on that!"

The thing about avatar/skills value is that it only becomes an asset once it is sold, and usually this means you are leaving the game or ripping your character down to zip...which isn't very fun. If you are going to be that technical about it, you should include the cost of the electricity used to play, the hours lost playing vs a part-time job where you could make X an hour, and a host of other ways of looking at the "costs" of playing and see if it is still profitable then.

There is no line of equity on character skills, sadly...:(




Yep! And I really want the ATM cards to come back so I can pay my rent with it. MA said I could ;)
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this is like every investment in the world it's only worth something when you sell it....

at least with EU it's worth SOMETHING in other games it's illigal to be worth something.
 
I'm still reading/watching this stuff...thx for posting it all, it's interesting if you believe it or not. I'm sure some people will be giving EU a go based on these stories and most are capable of making their own minds up based on their experience ...no-one promises a profit, and no-one is forced to pay to try EU, and just like RL there will be those who do well and those who don't and only a fool would expect otherwise.

The poker analogy isn't right though, for a start poker is illegal for a fair number of people online, and it's gambling with a little skill...EU is more about gameplay and having a plan long term...you can't lose everything overnight either. The luck element needn't be any part of life in EU and once the other planets arrive that looks to remove luck altogether on those since they are said to be business based?

The way I think of playing EU is comparing it to a night at the pub, I go in with money...have a drink, have some fun with my mates, maybe play a bandit and win or lose...I don't enter expecting to come home rich, sometimes I come home with pockets full, other times empty...always got what I paid for though, some fun for a few hours. Can't expect more. Sometimes I wake up saying "never again" ....just like we do in EU but that wears off pretty soon. :laugh:

I don't really see how a REAL EU player telling his or her own story honestly can be anything but good at the end of the day, if others can't follow their example and do likewise that's not because it's not possible, just down to individuals and their way of playing really. Those who make the biggest effort or put the most into what they do can be expected to do best can't they? Good for them I say.

Good to see MA and avatars from within EU getting out more...we need more new guys, ones that will stay and preferably deposit...these stories can't hurt on that front as long as they don't exaggerate or mislead anyone. I'm surprised that no-one mentions the possibility of an ATH worth 10k plus dollars to be honest, that happens from time to time so it wouldn't be BS.

t
 
Rumsponge said:
My agenda is to push MA into producing a better EU and also to protect my investment in the game.
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Bullshit :wise:

Rumsponge said:
Would you say that your results are typical, then?
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No, most people who've played as long as I have have made considerably more profit. (My own fault that, btw, crafting sucks!)
Rumsponge said:
Is this what most new players should expect?
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Yes. If they play cleverly.

Rumsponge said:
Over the past year, have you been pulling money out on a regular basis? Is this what you would define as a good annual pay rate? Financing for college?
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Not relevant.
Its possible, as has been proven, just like its possble that you could win the lottery(as advertised on the telly), or you could make a killing on shares in this new company IPO (as discussed in the financial press), or you could make loads by buying this lovely cottage thats in need of some work (as advertised in the Estate Agents)

We are not children in here!
If you play like a moron, you will lose your money, if you have even half a brain you will come out even or a little up. If you play smart, and are prepared to dedicate some time to it, you might come out well ahead.

Thats it, in a nutshell, and no-one has ever said anything different.

Rumsponge said:
All that I've said is that it is not a good thing for the company when people imply that there are enough opportunities in EU that people can use this instead of getting a real job.
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They dont, they havent, they wont do in the future. Stop with the fucking lying!

All anyone has ever said is ... its possible to have fun and make some money at the same time .. and you know what? It is. :yay:
 
For most teens, a typical summer job involves flipping burgers or scooping ice cream. But 18-year-old Mike Everest doesn't have a typical summer job and he's making a lot more than his friends. "In the past five years I've made about $35,000," he said.
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:rofl: Its said right IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS
That would be looting uber equipment when it was worth nothing but TT food, and now +10k's of ped, yeah I could have made money like that also, and it has nothing to do with the current system. Perhaps looting an UL CB26, X5 or LR63 will cover 1 year.

What a pile off bullcrap...


And if hes now 18 that means he started when he was 13 and thats agains EULA, BAN! BAN! MA knows the creation date and should kick him.
 
wow, love this Mike Everett, I wanna also make $35,000!!! never managed to do that though, been here since 2003 :scratch2:
 
Slacker!

Pham made twice that, in less ... :wise:
 
Henceforth said:
:rofl: Its said right IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS
That would be looting uber equipment when it was worth nothing but TT food, and now +10k's of ped, yeah I could have made money like that also, and it has nothing to do with the current system. Perhaps looting an UL CB26, X5 or LR63 will cover 1 year.

What a pile off bullcrap...


And if hes now 18 that means he started when he was 13 and thats agains EULA, BAN! BAN! MA knows the creation date and should kick him.
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omg E-rage! xD lol

You fail to see that even though good stuff dropped back then since it dropped alot and there wern't a heap load of players It wasn't worth what it is now.. your thinking of looting 15 shadow harnesses back then and selling them for 30k a piece.
No one knew prices were going to be what they are Every uber item i looted I sold it to better improve my hunting. I haven't made much money due to inflation maybe about 25% of the 35,000$

suprisingly I didn't loot much of this *uber equipment* you speak of. Back when shadow dropped like candy I was a miner.. cause I thought that was fun. :p
then in mid 2004 I switched to hunting.
Uber stuff still dropped just not often. and mid 05 I got an atrox 8242 ped with a chronicle harness F which I sold for.................. 4k. That jump started my career I bought an mk5 etc. and did robot's for 6 months trying to loot an angel harness 6 months I hunted 500-1k ped's a day. the guy next to me Roth I think his name was, we had a competition going who could loot the angel harness first... well after 6 months he looted 3 angel harnesses and 2 sentinel harnesses.. I got nothing :p
Then in late 2006 I got an areanatrox stalker with the mod Dar in it worth 75,000 at the time (it is now worth 200k+) but I sold it for 75k and bought an imk2 for 45k and bought my angel set with the rest and ped's leftover to hunt with..
I also looted an atrax with a doa-strikehammer and a ml-35 in the same loot..
But guess what I sold the ml-35 for 1.1k and the Strike I think went for 1.5k

woooo!

If you add all that up only about 1-3k$ was from *Getting lucky* The rest was from me playing smart.. I've taken out the majority of that 35,000 yet I have full angel an imp2870 and I have kill strike? Don't tell me my profit is from inflation cause it isn't if it was I'd have to of sold all my skill's and armor to hit 35,000$
I got It from playing smart.


Just a small correction and I kinda needed to type something long just had an long english test in college and now im kind of stuck on typing mode..


(oh if you reread the eula if you had a parent sign you up then people under 18 can play.. Reason why theres quite a few under 18 playing today.)

ps: Also I keep a hunting log.. Since the start of this year jan 01. I keep an active log of all my hunts.. Without a loot above 1k this year I've made 24,834 ped Thats roughly 3500 ped a month~ from having fun.. But since may I've been in school and haven't really even completed one month.. So if you want to go technical I made 5000 ped~ month.)
But this was with alot of work 1-2k ped a day and spending 4-5 hours on Entropia a day almost every day. (as I was saying before the two things required - time and patience)

people think its hard to make money yeah it can be but if you believe its impossible it makes it impossible cause you don't believe you can ever do it. :p

my 2 pec
Nea said:
wow, love this Mike Everett, I wanna also make $35,000!!! never managed to do that though, been here since 2003 :scratch2:
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<3 I'll teach yeeh :p
I should make a profiting video/guide thing :)
 
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But still you looted that stuff and sold it for enough to buy the stuff you still have, and that has gone up in price also. Plus being able to skill pre-nerf has made you allot more.

Did you count your total value to come to the total sum of $35k?

I still wonder if you would have started now, and play 5 year you would have got the same, I think not! Your achievements from the past 5 years where made because of those versions and not the current one. Those items you looted back then wont ever drop again.
 
I say - good for those who made it. I feel glad for them.

As previously discussed - EU has to have its "success stories" which are then carefuly marketed. This was driven to extremes with Cobra Boners claims he offered 150k$ for CND while ND got it for 100k$. This seems like as previously mentioned careful marketing where MA saw ND as better PR prospect than poor english speaking Cobra.

Examples of such stories are posted everywhere.
Looting something named "Mod FAP" - basically a set of pixels and code which heals avatar 160 HP 30 times a minute at cost of 0.0001 USD / heal. Then waiting 2 years and expiriencing market where ppl raise second mortgage to acquire it - isnt really a good example of how EU economy works.

Now lets face it - if you earned 1000$ - someone lost 1200$

That is the poor and cruel reality. I say - you can make some $$ in EU (sweating, reselling...) but this is all pocket money. I for example - started with 100$ depo, resold and had some LUCK - i cashed out with 2000$ (whish paid for my central home heating instalation) + I have an avatar worh about 1.5k$ to have fun.
I wouldnt really call that something i can support my family with - but i had some fun and cashed out a bit.

If MA would like to give everyone some opportunity to really profit they should modify their play platform to accomodate more services which wouldnt really be restricted as thay are now. For example - if instead of selling "banks" for US$ 440k, they could have placed a "loan auction" with special terminal where everyone could produce their own deeds then resell them. They could have put equipment rental terminal where ppl could safely rent out their equipment. Thay could have put real tickets to pilots etc. etc.
While they didnt put effort into this it clearly states: EU is ment for fun and gambling - where the best punchline is - you dont have to explain to your parents or spouses why are you gambling since it is neatly packed into a rather common looking MMoG.

Thank you for reading (if anyone read it).

I.

P.S.

Comment to Da Dragon:
we are tlaking poor innocent kids - the ones who see EU and say wow... not the ones who looted Mod Anything and sold it for 75k PED to bump start their career. Gratz to your success tho - glad you put it into good use - and not cars and hookers :D
 
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Henceforth said:
But still you looted that stuff and sold it for enough to buy the stuff you still have, and that has gone up in price also. Plus being able to skill pre-nerf has made you allot more.

Did you count your total value to come to the total sum of $35k?

I still wonder if you would have started now, and play 5 year you would have got the same, I think not! Your achievements from the past 5 years where made because of those versions and not the current one. Those items you looted back then wont ever drop again.
Click to expand...

Prices are still rising.

If you started 1 year ago and bought the right stuff, you could easily be sitting on the same profit as Da.

And the same will be true in 1 years time, and 2 years time, and ....
 
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