The Limited Debate

[valentin]

How you afford UL over L? And, I agree that Entropia used to be more fun in the past, but I think it doesn't have anything to do with (L).

Look here about "How you afford UL over L"



1.They are expensive to use an active hunters can save between 20-60k per year peds with that with a use of a non (L)-weapon only justify the purchase of non (L)-weapon.

 

[Pyhä Antero]

Look here about "How you afford UL over L"



1.They are expensive to use an active hunters can save between 20-60k per year peds with that with a use of a non (L)-weapon only justify the purchase of non (L)-weapon.

Depends on market situation and player's budget. And, do you really think that it would be good thing that everyone has UL weapon and none needs Limited ones? And, how about scenario that L weapons would be more eco than UL, and being eco would result better tt returns, would it be still nice to invest in UL?


Edit: I think you didn't notice that I was speculating and you were talking about current situation.

 

[das]

120% mark up may be good news for you but there are a few problems with this:
* 120% is bad news for the people who play within a limited budget. They may not be able to afford a gun at 120%. They are effectively driven away from the game.
* The ones who do buy at 120% are more likely to be making a loss, as they are unlikely to make up the shortfall from loot returns even with markup


So 120% essentially benefits the few and places the users of these weapons at a disadvantage because cost to play for them would be high. If we are interested in everyone rather than the few then this situation is not good...

120% for a redeemer amped with 106 gives you 87.18 dps for a stunning 2.963 dpp, doesn't sound that bad for both looters & users in my books

 

[starcollector]

well I think (L) items are good for economy,without (L) items almost all MU was 0%..
UL items and rare items drops only if player base increase otherwise effect economy....

 

[billairboy]

The main problem with the L v.s. UL is that the decay component of the total cost per /shoot is rather low. I not totally sure, but at average maybe 10-15% of the cost is from the decay of the weapon? That makes the markup on the weapon a rather limited factor when you are deciding between using a UL weapon or an L version. The hit/damage abilities are much more important. But I think most us of can agree that we don't want to increase the decay of the weapons because then the L weapons would be consumed to fast.

Adjusting the hit and damage ability formula for the L weapons could also be a solution.
Instead of getting 10/10 when have finished your SIB interval, it could look some like 8+2%*skill level. That way you like a UL need to have level 100 in the skill to max the weapon, but low skill player would still have a good enough ability with the weapon. That and doing a similar change to the formula for the damage interval, would help the UL weapons.

"Nerf" the hit and damage abilities (more skill dependance) of the L weapons and add some additional perks to the UL versions, like higher chance of critical hits, is my medicine to the problem.

 

[Kri]

Make durability of L weapons few times higher - making them last longer. At the same time to balance it out, increase ammo consumption.

The result? Same eco per shot but MU of weapon would make less of an impact on the hunter as the total cost of ownership of that gun would be mostly in ammo burn.

 

[Acro]

I replace the original text with something more usefull

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

UNL vs L - financial proof

Ok I finally got to my main PC.

During whole year 2012 I used
31190.81 PED TT of Assassin R150 - not a hardcore in any means (156 x Apis).

If we assume that similar class of weapons have MU on average
120% (Not really well oriented in L market, but I guess it's not so bad shoot)
then it seems that I 'saved' in 2012 whopping
6238.16 PED of MU that I did not had to pay for similar L.

Now think about this amount and the fact that I bought R150 in year 2010.
Probably I paid few k PED more than it is worth now (and yet few k less than I could sell it for about 1.5 years ago), but can you really say that I lost PED by buying UNL SIB? (I hope you passed math test )


The key factor in making such decision is 'would you use it regularly'.
If you use your expensive gun, you will recover it's value and still be able to resell it at similar price, still making profit. Not gonna even mention other benefits as they are obvious.
If on other hand, you are 'Sunday Hunter', than probably it's better to stick to L.

Hope this will help you with your dilemma.

 

[Acro]

I replace the original text with something more usefull

 

[remontoire]

Yes, that could. However, it has some problems namely availability. If we could somehow solve that other solutions may not be needed.

Availability is an issue because it can prevent people from playing. It can essentially cause people to take mini breaks if they can't find the item at the price they are willing to pay. Which is not good for players or MA.

There are multiple issues here -

• while the new sib ladder is awesome, it is largely looted, often from mobs people are used to thinking of as "bad", no items mobs and that don't get hunted much as a result.
• even those mobs still give globals full of stackables, even if there are none of the item on market and mu is high, frustrating potential hunters
• making old bps useless and not really having new ones seems to have done bad things to the weapons crafter profession.

 

[Fiona Simmons]

6238.16 PED of MU that I did not had to pay for similar L.

It really depends how much you paid for this gun
Instead you could have bought CLD's for that monney, using L guns and had still more monney in your account. it really depends on the price tag of your ul sib gun. Last year you had the chance to get them for 1200 - 1300 ped each.

Lets say i buy this Caly tek mkII sga edition for 45000 ped currently listed in the sales forum. That is equal to 30 CLD's

Lets say one cld make 240 ped each year thats 7200 ped. Thats a lot of L guns if i only account the markup.
30 cld's are also a lot more easy to liquidate

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

It really depends how much you paid for this gun
Instead you could have bought CLD's for that monney, using L guns and had still more monney in your account. it really depends on the price tag of your ul sib gun. Last year you had the chance to get them for 1200 - 1300 ped each.

Yes this is not too bad option as well (or should I say 'too'? ).

IIRC in whole 2012 there was ~250 PED revenue from CLD.
That would mean I would need to get 25 CLDs in order to have this 6.2k PED to blast away on L weapon's MU.
This would be 25k PED (yes, calculated 1k per CLD, that was cost at beginning of 2012).

So I would have to spend 25k PED and still 'hunt' for guns at auction, praying I find what I want at acceptable MU. After whole year I would cover 6.2k PEd fro MU on weapons.

Funnily enough 25k is almost what I paid for my R150 back in 2010 (note it was 1,5 year before CLDs) . Having UNL gun I could forget about looking for gun and I could concentrate on hunting, plus unlocked tiers will be permanent! After year I 'save' 6.2k PED.

Lets say i buy this Caly tek mkII sga edition for 45000 ped currently listed in the sales forum. That is equal to 30 CLD's

Lets say one cld make 240 ped each year thats 7200 ped. Thats a lot of L guns if i only account the markup.
30 cld's are also a lot more easy to liquidate

Definitely some people go that way too. Like I said both both scenarios are not bad. Both approaches differ in form of small pluses of minuses for each one.
Downside of going either road is, that both require upfront investment, which in turn require money and faith.
Not going any of this road and 'bleeding' for MU is worst possibility. Some chose that way based on their judgement, while many are 'forced' to it by life circumstances.

 

[Dan59]

And the third question was, if I did own a lot on unlimited "how would I feel".

You wud probably feel better if you play RCE in RL.
You wud feel wery good if you play rce in EU and you are trader, miner or crafter.

But if you are in EU for gameplay, fun, relax and entertainment then f... (L).
If MA cud offer in terminal trade ancient MM (L), mod fap (L), mod shadow (L), mod laser amp (L), mod finder/escavator (L) ,.. imk2 (L), some imp or mod meele (L) and other or better then that I wud accept that (L) world knowing that i can obtain all items i need any time i need form TT.

Nowdays if you go on "holidays" on another planet and there you decay your stuff - what happen?
Normaly "holidays" are interrupted because there you cant obtain items you need and you are forced to fly to Caly.
For example - if i decay all my vivo Survivor (L) or Zychion Pro (L) - you know shit version of mod fap - i need to run back to Caly to craft them there.

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

Had another idea about this isssue.

What if some unlimited were repairable as now but some others newer L types became pseudo unlimited. These pseudo unlimited items could be repaired not by a repair terminal but by a crafter by using some commonly available ingredients. This could potentially benefit crafters for repeat business and consumers.

 

[KijkkiJikki]

Had another idea about this isssue.

What if some unlimited were repairable as now but some others newer L types became pseudo unlimited. These pseudo unlimited items could be repaired not by a repair terminal but by a crafter by using some commonly available ingredients. This could potentially benefit crafters for repeat business and consumers.

or I could just sell you a new weapon.

 

[Viperstrike]

(L)OVE (L)IMITED It pisses all over the unlimited stuff, even the high end weapons once you get up to those levels. And who can ever beat the price tag on (L)imited items, small markup or extremely excessive markup for unlimited for the amount of hours played by the average normal person not looking for a pie in the sky ie. Making money from eu but to have some fun instead.

Unlimited sibs may be good in some cases, but the higher end stuff ? No ty. Not for my wallet

If EU ever does eventually become a (L)imited only economy, then finally it will rock and become really something.

UNL destroys the game, it adds resources to the economy via a repair terminal unnecessarily to the point of flooding it for the most part.

Much like how ammo should be crafted and foraged for via other means. eg. Newbie areas of mining exposed rocks or what not. Yes ok, it is something along the lines of how other games do it, but it would create a dependency for loot and looted items along with involving work to obtain those items, not just a simple click of a repair terminal.

Having both UNL and (L) will just see the (L) market and resource markets alike constantly being trashed.

I guess Rick I will be a FOR candidate in the (L)imited debate

 

[Viperstrike]

A lvl 50 player these days does more dmg with an L gun then I can do with my I2870.

Hope I am not taking you out of context here, but enough said right here, so true. (L)imited is the way to go at the lower % markups at the high levels.

 

[ZPF]

UL items are an objectively terrible investment right now. You could say they are more convenient, sure, but the only way they are going to save you money is if you have some sort of insider information with MindArk. There are new weapons/tools being introduced all the time, and UNL weapon prices will only continue to go down (simple Supply & Demand). And when you consider their absurdly inflated prices... (L) is a far safer bet if you care about your wallet! I wouldn't even buy a mod merc or mod fap at this point. I highly doubt their value is going to rise anytime soon, then again, you can never really know. It's up to you if you want to take the risk. If money is no object, go for it