today born the SSM(Sweat Sellers Moviment)!!!!!! Sweat sellers, hear me!!!!

[Dox Amarr]

The marked is also overloadet with sweat and there is not enought ME that is used.

 

[Grounder]

You can't control (or unionize) the entire sweat gathering population and people can now gather their own sweat if they really need to.

The process has been discussed before and will be again everytime a new player sees a drop in price.

I didn't work before and it won't work in the future unless MA make significant changes (like re-instating the sweat cap or something equally as drastic). Even then people find ways around impediments (yes - some of you did have sweat ava's )

Live with it.

Grounder

 

[dargonstar]

sounds familiar. yes nearly a year ago when i started by sweating mobs for income I refused to sell at 1.0 actualy people were buying for 1.5 then. you know i ran around for 3 weeks advertiseing my sweat for 2.0. lots of people called me noob (which i was but that doesn't make a differnce.) some called me stupid and some called stuborn. but yah know what. I finaly sold my 10k bottle of sweat for 2.0.

If you want to sell it higher just proclaim one price and one price only. mabe you will get lucky like i did.

 

[Tauro]

Sweaters... I wear them in winter.

Okay, I too am a nOOb. I have sweat and sweat some more. I tried to make it on sweating alone and guess what? The game was getting to be a chore instead of fun. I hate doing chores. I have enough to do at home. I just deposit a small amount when I need it and life is much more enjoyable.

Sure, I still sweat on occassion and i have been known to trade in sweat when I see someone buying for .85 or .8; I offer .9-.95. I then turn around and sell it for 1 somewhere else. Do I make any real money at it? NO WAY! What is a ped or two? Not even a half way descent hunt.

I make more after a small deposit in one hour than if I was to sweat for 5-6 hours. It just does not make any fiscal sense to only sweat for peds. But what do I know, I am just a nOOb.

On a small tangent; if you where a sweater, what kind would you be?

Me: A turtle-neck

 

[Phaser]

another noob thread....

 

[akruz]

the 3S soc was create

today i have create the 3S soc(Sweater Sellers Sindicate) like in rl, the sindicate will have all the functions that a true sindicate have, so it wilol protect the sweater sellers prices, and that include not letting the prices fall more. Veryone how sell sweat or agree with us are free to join

 

[Tangine]

I haven't seen a trade union that ever managed to exist in EU. The spirit of the game is hardcore capitalistic. And I remember Mindark stating they did not want monopoles. A movement like the SSM would be trying to establish a monopole on sweat selling, and i'm sure Mindark would find a way to break it... How about they decide that creatures suddenly stop giving sweat ? Now, that would hurt. The problem with sweat price is that there is too much sweat on the market already.You have something to complain about ? Man, remember you're enjoying the game for free, sweat gathering only takes time while most other people deposit... I buy sweat over market price from my disciples, but i have more than i need and at some point i'll stop buying, even if price is 0.005 ped... You want to start a trade union ? Fine by me, i think an alternative economic model is good, but remember : Mindark has all the cards. Not the buyers. People who buy sweat are not your bosses, but your customers.

 

[zeb]

Any way i see u can affect the price is that u start buying to 1.5. It will of coz take a lot of cash to make that happen

 

[akruz]

ok, but look with in other point, what is the craet atractive ideia of PE, a real economy and they are trying to do a second world there... so, if a trade union appear, this will be good to the image of mindark, is not a monopoly, sinidicates dont do monopoly, they just stabilze the price, they just defende their class, if everyone make other sindicates, so will have a balance again
the world is capitalist, but yes, exist sindicates and work classes... trade union and other stuff... igf things like this start to come, then they will have a true real world copy(or at least a more realistic copy)just think a thing like this> project entropia, more than a game etc etc... project entropia have a real economy system with real political, cultural and economicy moviments... i think is more atractive dont?

 

[black_rain13]

I just bought 10K of sweat last night from a whored of sweat hogs out in Camp Phoenix. Despite many offers from them to sell it to me for less, I insisted on paying 1.0 per unit.

I don't help the sweat hogs by running and tanking big mobs into Phoenix to get cheaper sweat so I insisted on paying the higher price.

I'm all about the sweat hogs getting a fair price for their sweat, but the reality of the issue is that there will always be one or two, or one hundred sweat hogs that will be more than happy to sell sweat for less in order to make a quick buck or two.

Unless you personally have the finances in place to buy all the sweat on the market and stockpile it. Then ration it out to those who use it in a limited supply, you will never be able to get control of the sweat prices.

Supply and Demand in the case of sweat is the only factor affecting the prices. Anyone can sweat and more and more people do, but there is less and less demand for it since ME is flooding the mind force market right now and ME refiners can't even sell their ME at a profit currently.

Get used to the prices of sweat being low. Take advantage when you can find someone who will pay slightly higher and save up your sweat for as long as you can. BUT be prepared, because I forsee that with the current markets, sweat may drop as low as .5 per unit before we see any MF changes in the EU that would increase demand again.

 

[black_rain13]

ok, but look with in other point, what is the craet atractive ideia of PE, a real economy and they are trying to do a second world there... so, if a trade union appear, this will be good to the image of mindark, is not a monopoly, sinidicates dont do monopoly, they just stabilze the price, they just defende their class, if everyone make other sindicates, so will have a balance again
the world is capitalist, but yes, exist sindicates and work classes... trade union and other stuff... igf things like this start to come, then they will have a true real world copy(or at least a more realistic copy)just think a thing like this> project entropia, more than a game etc etc... project entropia have a real economy system with real political, cultural and economicy moviments... i think is more atractive dont?

How do you intened to enforce a trade union? You can't make people sell sweat at your prices. You certainly can't punish them if they don't. You can't even send Quido and his henchmen to break their fingers if they cross your picket lines.

The idea of a labor union would be fine if there was some means to make it effective, but there isn't. That being the case, I honestly feel you are wasting your time, energy and breath on something that will never happen. You would be better served to log into the EU, start sweating again and sell before the prices go even lower.

 

[akruz]

you realy think that i pretend get people to my cause at this wa? obvius dont, i will convice then, just it, if i get 80% to my side and some sweat buyers that agree with me(just look the poll, they exist,) and another possible other players, well... i think we can wyn.

 

[Kaiser]

I have said this in a number of threads and I will say it again. I will do everything in my power to make sure that this price fixing crap is not successful. Even to the point where I will sweat for hours on end and make sure I sell it below the price control price.

Supply and demand in the most rudimentary form control the price of items in this game. (yes I know there are differences between this and true free market but that is not the discussion).

This trade union crap is a bunch of exactly that "CRAP". If you want more money to play the game then deposit. If you can not deposit and sweat is not enough money for you then maybe this is not the game for you.

I see no reason why there should be any kind of sweat price control at all. the market dictates what it can handle. If you have issues with the price it sells for then talk to MA about tweaking nexus drops or fixing MF.

Jacking up the prices of sweat and expecting MF users to pay for it (lets face it that is who ultimately pays) is a bad idea.

Ideas like "lets get together and withhold our wares to generate artificial demand" is nothing but pure and simple MARKET MANIPULATION and makes you no better than an auction relister.


Props to black_rain. He has very valid points and I would like to take it one step further. you will most liekly end up driving the price even lower trying to do this. Here is the reason why:

You and your henchman will decide to withhold sweat until you get the price you want. What is going to happen is people are going to come in and see that you can not get sweat to sell at that price and will sell a little lower to get rid of theirs. That is one of the beauties of this game, what you are trying to do will not work.

Also you may need to do a little study. If ME sells for 228%, and Nexus sells for roughly 120% this means the following:

(1) ME 2.28 PEC - (1) Nexus 1.20 PEC = Sweat 1.08 PEC

Your sweat is worth 1.08

NOW lets take this even further subtract 10% for profit of the ME maker (and that usually comes from the sweat suppliers) now your sweat is worth .927 PEC so you are getting paid what you deserve!!!


This is how an economy works not "waaaaaaa I want more money so i am going to start a temper fit union".


No offense meant just tired of seeing this type of post making it up here over and over and having to use it to teach economic lessons to people who do not know how to use the search function.

(Plus I am put off by 8.7)

 

[Westy]

You got this all wrong Akruz and it won't work. You cannot control this market from the sweat end. And any little band of sweaters you create will impact only a very minor section of the market.

The price of sweat is dictated by the price of ME and nexus. Nexus is easy to find. I can go to several sites and pull out 1-2k nexus easy with II-IV hits.

ME is at 220-240 i believe. Take out nexus about 120-130. Then some people want to make some money on all this trading of resources. Then there is refiner decay. So sweat is less than 1.0 at the moment.

So sweat price is low because demand for ME is Low or oversupplied. One or the other.

I only use ME for Lesser TP and only need to have a few hundred on me. So whenever i find nexus i sell most and keep some. Then when i hunt and feel like it i sweat mobs a few times then kill them. That for about 30 mins and i have my ME for a month easy. So ME typically cost me about 100-130% of current market depending on my mining run and decay. Since I recently found an VIII and IX of nexus and i profitted in TT on that run. Its actually cost me about 50-60% of ME market price from that run for my current load of ME. So you would have to pay me to take your sweat to match that.

So hope you understand you can't control it. As others here have said its been tried before and doesn't work.

Now perhaps you should not misrepresent your ability to control it to those who you might seek to recruit. Their efforts would be better served getting their sweat and moving on to enjoy other aspects of the game. All you can do is delay this by having them stand around longer trying to sell what someone won't buy.

 

[akruz]

ok, you said that, sweat price is 1.0, not 0.9 or 0.8 or even 0.5...like some people are try to get... well, if they can do a 10% profit so we can do so(work and time have their price) the price is 1.0 and we have a point... the prices cannot fall anymore(like i said before, our objective is that... later we will try raise the price if we can, until we get a fair price... but just like you show to us and everybody that are reading that thread, the sweat price is 1.0, and not 0.9)

 

[Westy]

No i said sweat price is less than 1.0. Less than 1.0 mean anything under 1.0. And on my current supply of nexus you would have to pay me to take your sweat. That is what its worth to me. I can make ME currently for less than you can sell sweat cos i have enough nexus for Lesser TP'er to last months. So how can you possibly think that you can with less than 1% of the sweaters on board influence the price of sweat when I would only take sweat from you if you paid me. As i said and others also ME and nexus price will dictate sweat price. You sit around selling for 1.0 another guy at .9. Who you think will sell. The guy itching to buy some ammo and get out there will undercut you so he can get on with it. In the meantime you don't. You can stand around wherever and say sweat is 1.0 but its not. Its not 1.0 because you say it is. It will only ever be 1.0 if ME goes up or nexus is less. When I started I could sell ME for 3.0 and over no problem. Nexus was 1.7 and sweat has floated from 1.3 to now less than 1.0.

ok, you said that, sweat price is 1.0, not 0.9 or 0.8 or even 0.5...like some people are try to get... well, if they can do a 10% profit so we can do so(work and time have their price) the price is 1.0 and we have a point... the prices cannot fall anymore(like i said before, our objective is that... later we will try raise the price if we can, until we get a fair price... but just like you show to us and everybody that are reading that thread, the sweat price is 1.0, and not 0.9)

 

[akruz]

Sorry if we posted at the same time... but i was talking with Kaiser

 

[Faustian]

Sorry if we posted at the same time... but i was talking with Kaiser

This is why we use the

button

 

[akruz]

just one thing here... ok, you really think if the prices fall it dont will fall again later? i have a argument to then because if you gain less money from sweating so you will be stuck more time in the sweating job, and this will cause a grow in he sweaters... like i said before, dont have only the prices of ME and Nexus here, there are people who just whants to lower the sweat price more and more, and know that noobs whant quick money, part of they just hat the sweaters, opalo hunters(yes, dont have anymore) and resellers just because they deposity, and you can see it in the phrase: "then just deposity"... a new thing to you, no, i am not stealing your money because i am playing for free! i work for each pec i have collected until now! if you can quickly pay for a thing that i take hours to get... good for you! ok, i will back to the true theme of the topic... work is money, time is money...(so is not just tese prices, there are a minimal payment for the things) there are real people here, and i can (or not) make a moviment to stabilize the prices, things like this happen in rl, and can happen here (dont matter this is a game, still have the real people part)...
a note to everyone here, is note a trade union, is just a moviment,we will note stay in this "dont sell for less than 1.0" thing if the normal price stay in 1.0, so again the 0.9 price will be a cheap price(understand one thing, if the prices fall to 0.9, so the cheap price pass to be 0.8, when the things get stabilzed, the moviment ends and everybody can sell at any price without the concern to the default price fall again)
SSM is a movimente like the name says(sweater sellers moviment)
3S is not a trade union and is not a gang or a mafia!!!!(no, we dont have henchmans, just people who whants join to us cause agree with us) 3S is a syndicate(3S is Sweater Sellers Syndicate) and my intention is with that is more than just put a fair price on the sweat, if dont have any ideia what i said ith that, well i can do nothing, just think in the functions of a worker class syndicate

 

[akruz]

This is why we use the

button

lol ok, i will use this form now on

 

[Cly]

Just a quickie thought...

... pardon me if a bazillion others also replied to this ...

hope they take away the value of sweat totaly!
force everyone to deposit!

a thought from someone who is depositing and loosingpeds to non depositors.

I don't see how you're "losing".
They are clearly providing you a commodity you need. If you don't want to pay for it then as others have said before: it's free, and limitless - just go fetch it yourself.

If, on the other hand, as some _others_ have posited: time is in fact worth something to you, then I don't see why you're "losing money" by paying someone for a service you don't have time for. As I recall, this is pretty much how the entire real-world service-industry works, right?

 

[akruz]

... pardon me if a bazillion others also replied to this ...



I don't see how you're "losing".
They are clearly providing you a commodity you need. If you don't want to pay for it then as others have said before: it's free, and limitless - just go fetch it yourself.

If, on the other hand, as some _others_ have posited: time is in fact worth something to you, then I don't see why you're "losing money" by paying someone for a service you don't have time for. As I recall, this is pretty much how the entire real-world service-industry works, right?

iand adding here and saying it again... if all hunters and miners just reolve to stop to sweat themselves, then we will have less people hunting and mining (just focusing on this area and forgetting the part of, no more sweaters, no more freedom and a "deposit or just play a coll chat" politic) less people hunting and mining is less materials to crafters, less materials to crafters is items to hunters and miners, what make they cath less resources and... i think you understand(i can continue this cicle and wrote a giant post... but this cicle is almost inifinit, it is not a infinit cicle just because when all the economy breaks the cicle will end, with all the miners, hunters, players and the PE)

 

[akruz]

Supply and demand in the most rudimentary form control the price of items in this game. (yes I know there are differences between this and true free market but that is not the discussion).
a note about it, if you know there are diferences just discuss here because the only diference betewen this and the true free market is that this market is virtaul and... wait! there another virtual things in "true market" like most part of the money (on that part i can say, in other markets to) so there is no realy big diference, whe have real people here that can make real market tatics(not all, but can still can do, and also, i have sugessted some things that will improve that part: as you can see here(if you whant to know what is that ideias )
and also, supply and demand are the most rudimantary, ok it is... but is the only aplicable? why? dont are any rule impost by MA that say that
another thing... good to see that more people are voting in the options 1 and 3, and remeber, 3S is open to everbody who are sweaters or just whant help the sweaters to afiliate(and again, is not a trade union, a gang or a mafia, is a Syndicate!!!!!!!!!!!(and sorry for the wrong name, you know that my english sucks, just search Sweat Sellers (the full name there is Sweat Sellers Si ndicate lol, just later i have looked the right way to write lol)

 

[black_rain13]

I'm going to try something just to prove a point. I will post the results as they happen, but I am willing to bet my entire stack of weapons that I can consistently find sweat hogs that will readily sell me their sweat for prices at, or below .75 per unit.

I won't post names of those who are selling this cheap, but I will provide screenshots in order to provide evidence.

Akruz, you make every effort you can to control prices, but I still bet that you can't control them enough to stop me from getting my sweat at below market value.

 

[Sonya Heart]

In the old days of capped sweating it was possible to manimulate the market. Now anyone can get thier own sweat (I do) so forget it. Wont happen. b-bye now

 

[black_rain13]

good to see that more people are voting in the options 1 and 3...

I'm sorry, is Akruz blind, or is it me? Options 1 and 3 combined don't even have more votes than option two which is the option for sweat hogs that think they just have to accept what they can get.

It seems to me that most of them (the sweaters) know that they cannot control the market because there are factors involved that are beyond their control. Is Akruz the only one that can't see it?

Tell you what Akruz, and this is sincere, so please don't think I am being an ass... If you really REALLY want to control the sweat market prices, then you need to get people to stop sweating completely. Simply take the bulk of the sweat out of the market.

Get your credit card out, make a $5,000 USD deposit and go to the sweat farms like PA, Camp Phoenix and Fort Troy and pay the sweat hogs to just stand there and not sweat.

I can tell you right now, anything less than that effort will do you no good at all. Hundreds of new players out there in the world that need to make a few PED to buy that Opalo. Unless you giving them another means of playing the EU for free, you have to know that they will continue to sweat and continue to sell it for whatever amount they can get.

 

[Kaiser]

ok, you said that, sweat price is 1.0, not 0.9 or 0.8 or even 0.5...like some people are try to get... well, if they can do a 10% profit so we can do so(work and time have their price) the price is 1.0 and we have a point... the prices cannot fall anymore(like i said before, our objective is that... later we will try raise the price if we can, until we get a fair price... but just like you show to us and everybody that are reading that thread, the sweat price is 1.0, and not 0.9)

You need to read more closely. I did not say the sweat price was 1.0. I said it was 1.08 before you subtract the cost of the ME maker having a little profit and before refiner decay. Please do not try to school me in how this game works. I admit I do not know everything but I will say I have a significant amount of experience

Your objective here is to try and price control by withholding to create artificial demand by shortage. This will not work, it has been tried many times before and to be honest, most players disagree with you.

 

[Kaiser]

just one thing here... ok, you really think if the prices fall it dont will fall again later? i have a argument to then because if you gain less money from sweating so you will be stuck more time in the sweating job, and this will cause a grow in he sweaters... like i said before, dont have only the prices of ME and Nexus here, there are people who just whants to lower the sweat price more and more, and know that noobs whant quick money, part of they just hat the sweaters, opalo hunters(yes, dont have anymore) and resellers just because they deposity, and you can see it in the phrase: "then just deposity"... a new thing to you, no, i am not stealing your money because i am playing for free! i work for each pec i have collected until now! if you can quickly pay for a thing that i take hours to get... good for you! ok, i will back to the true theme of the topic... work is money, time is money...(so is not just tese prices, there are a minimal payment for the things) there are real people here, and i can (or not) make a moviment to stabilize the prices, things like this happen in rl, and can happen here (dont matter this is a game, still have the real people part)...
a note to everyone here, is note a trade union, is just a moviment,we will note stay in this "dont sell for less than 1.0" thing if the normal price stay in 1.0, so again the 0.9 price will be a cheap price(understand one thing, if the prices fall to 0.9, so the cheap price pass to be 0.8, when the things get stabilzed, the moviment ends and everybody can sell at any price without the concern to the default price fall again)
SSM is a movimente like the name says(sweater sellers moviment)
3S is not a trade union and is not a gang or a mafia!!!!(no, we dont have henchmans, just people who whants join to us cause agree with us) 3S is a syndicate(3S is Sweater Sellers Syndicate) and my intention is with that is more than just put a fair price on the sweat, if dont have any ideia what i said ith that, well i can do nothing, just think in the functions of a worker class syndicate

You apparently have no idea how a supply/deman economy works. the price of sweat has NOTHING I repeat NOTHING to do with how much work you did to obtain the sweat. I am sorry but the unfortunate truth is sweating is an underpaid crap job but the fact is the amount of time you spent to get it once again has nothing to do with the price. it is all well and good that there are real people doing the work and that it takes time but unless someone is willing to pay your price your item is not worth what you want. Also the price has EVERYTHING to do with the price of Nexus and ME nothing else. No matter how much nexus is about or how much sweat is about if the price of ME and nexus combined does not leave room for more than .9 for your sweat including a bit of profit for the ME maker than that is what you are going to get or even less.

the fact that MA uncapped the sweat skill is what is causing your pain not people unwilling to pay your price. I am guesing oyu don't understand that, that money has to come from somewhere the unfortunate fact is sweat seems to be the component that takes the price hit when ME goes down. This is most likely due to the fact that everyone can get it.

 

[Kaiser]

Supply and demand in the most rudimentary form control the price of items in this game. (yes I know there are differences between this and true free market but that is not the discussion).
a note about it, if you know there are diferences just discuss here because the only diference betewen this and the true free market is that this market is virtaul and... wait! there another virtual things in "true market" like most part of the money (on that part i can say, in other markets to) so there is no realy big diference, whe have real people here that can make real market tatics(not all, but can still can do, and also, i have sugessted some things that will improve that part: as you can see here(if you whant to know what is that ideias )
and also, supply and demand are the most rudimantary, ok it is... but is the only aplicable? why? dont are any rule impost by MA that say that
another thing... good to see that more people are voting in the options 1 and 3, and remeber, 3S is open to everbody who are sweaters or just whant help the sweaters to afiliate(and again, is not a trade union, a gang or a mafia, is a Syndicate!!!!!!!!!!!(and sorry for the wrong name, you know that my english sucks, just search Sweat Sellers (the full name there is Sweat Sellers Si ndicate lol, just later i have looked the right way to write lol)

Oh lord you had to get me started. First let me start by providing a little background. I hold all of my securities and analyst licenses and have worked for some of the largest economic analysis firms and brokerages in the world so I know a bit about economics.

There are HUGE differences between this and a true supply and demand economy. I am only going to take the time to address one though.

In a true supply and demand economy supply is usually not limitless and is certainly not controlled by one entity. This economy is pseudo supply and demand, at any point in time MA can decide to "supply" more of any item they want and completely crash the market on it. On the flip side they can decide that A104 amps will NEVER drop again EVER and suddenly they are worth +1000 (just a pseudo example).

You might want to read up on your economics before making declarative statements that are not correct. Once again no matter how unfortunate it may be your time and effort do not figure into the price of sweat at all. It is a sad but true fact.

My original statement remains though, you need to use the search function before you post. This subject has been posted and the horse has been killed. before dragging a new horse onto the chopping block you may want to check out what has happened to the others or the new one is gonna get his head cut off too.

 

[black_rain13]

Oh lord you had to get me started. First let me start by providing a little background. I hold all of my securities and analyst licenses and have worked from some of the largest economic analysis firms and brokerages in the world so I know a bit about economics.

There are HUGE differences between this and a true supply and demand economy. I am only going to take the time to address one though.

In a true supply and demand economy supply is usually not limitless and is certainly not controlled by one entity. This economy is pseudo supply and demand, at any point in time MA can decide to "supply" more of any item they want and completely crash the market on it. On the flip side they can decide that A104 amps will NEVER drop again EVER and suddenly they are worth +1000 (just a pseudo example).

You might want to read up on your economics before making declarative statements that are not correct. Once again no matter how unfortunate it may be your time and effort do not figure into the price of sweat at all. It is a sad but true fact.

It's ok, mate. Take a deep breath... and exhale... inhale... and exhale... now that you feel a little better, just walk away... the little one isn't worth 15 years in prision for aggravated assault.